Violating the Fourth Wall

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Related terms: Fourth Wall, TPTB
See also: TPTB's Involvement with Fandom
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The fourth wall refers to the division between characters in a story and the audience. The concept originated in theater, with three walled sets and an imaginary fourth wall between the audience and the actors that prevents interaction. Violating the fourth wall occurs when characters are aware of the audience or the fact that they are in a work of fiction.

For many fans, directly involving TPTB in fanworks was a fannish taboo. A fan wrote in 2015: "The cardinal rule was “Do not profit from fandom.” The second rule was “Do not put your fic in the way of the talent.”" [1]

Topic Suggestions

  • press and those seeking readers/attention set up situations
  • fans and non-fans create a situation or confrontation to prove a point
  • fans with good intentions create a situation that backfires or is ill-thought out

Some Early Boundary Crossings

A comment by Dovya Blacque which addresses the early 1980s:

....fans have over the years done many things that aren't really kosher with fandom. My favorite story of a fan asking an inappropriate question at a convention happened at a one-shot convention in Washington D.C. in the 1980s, Leonard Nimoy was the big guest. The day before his appearance, I sold a bunch of K/S zines to a young man who was stunned and excited to discover K/S. Being gay himself, and a student at Georgetown, he couldn't believe that something celebrating his own sexuality was part of his huge love for Star Trek. *I* was excited to introduce him to K/S. The following day, as I sat in Nimoy's talk with a whole bunch of other K/S editors, writers and artists, Nimoy called on this young man during Q&A. And, of course, this very excited young man asked The Question: "What do you think of the fan writing in which Kirk and Spock are lovers?" You could hear a collective gasp and the sound of dozens of eyes widening in horror. It just wasn't DONE. You didn't ask the actors about slash. NEVER NEVER NEVER. With his usual grace and good will, Nimoy replied (I'm paraphrasing): "What do you think of it?" The young man replied that he thought it was amazing, to which Nimoy said, "Fans have great imaginations. Next question?" I have never heard or heard of an actor responding to a question about a character's sexuality with more sensitivity and understanding. I think actors who are faced with the same question now could learn a lot from Nimoy's reply.

The other first-hand example I have of a fan doing something inappropriate that horrified fans present at the time was in 1983 at Space-Trek 3 [2] in St. Louis. As we stood in line for Nimoy's autograph, a fan artist -- not a very good one so I'm not going to name her! -- was excitedly showing people the drawing of hers she intended to hand Nimoy for his autograph. It was extremely explicit K/S; I believe a sexual act was depicted. En mass, we all worked very hard for about 15 minutes to convince her not to hand the artwork to Nimoy. We prevailed but it was a very difficult thing to explain to her, someone who honestly didn't think she was doing anything wrong or disrespectful or questionable or inappropriate. Her desire to share what she thought was beautiful artwork with him was an honest desire to share her passion for the character Nimoy portrayed. The very thought simply appalled the 10 or so of us standing in line with her. [3]
Comments by Aja regarding conflict in early 1999:

To make a long story short, we had wank coming from Kevin Spacey himself, and the mods of both lists were running around freaking out that our lists were being spied on and 'infiltrated' by Spacey's assistants. It was crazy and chaotic, and really scary because as wanky as this is, our list actually was being infiltrated by Spacey's personal assistant--and in the middle of all the pressure, one morning I woke up to discover that the person I had allowed to be owner had deleted my mailing list.

She had done it out of the blue, just because of her own personal issues over the Spacey wank. It was completely my fault for unthinkingly letting her be owner while I was the head Mod, but I never thought that she would actually use the access to just delete it literally on in impulse, without telling or consulting any of the other mods. I mean, wtf WHO DOES THAT? I was hurt and betrayed and all my other mods were thrown into even more confusion, and I've never really forgiven her for it.

So my lovely little list that I was so proud of was gone forever, along with all its archives and member list--and we had no record of who had been on it, and no way to contact anybody on the list to tell them what had happened. We immediately made a new list, of course, and people found their way back, but now instead of being the cool revolutionaries we had been tainted by the wank, and it felt like we'd lost our street cred. Very rapidly after that the entire fandom became wankier and wankier, and I soon handed over the reins of the new list to somebody else and got the hell out of Dodge. The 9 month period I was in that fandom was the wankiest, most ridiculously dramatic, petty, and stupid online experience I've ever had. Nothing I've seen in HP fandom has ever come close to it... [snipped]. [4]

The Internet Brings Higher Visibility

From The Long-Delayed Fourth Wall Meta (2018):

There've always been breaches in the wall. From fans showing slashy fanart to actors at cons to people reccing slash stories on an actor's personal website, there have always been fans who intentionally break the wall. But fandom knows how to respond to that. For all the inevitable wank that comes out of such situations, fandom is actually remarkably good at self-policing, at negotiating and implementing our own rules and standards for behavior. Now though, now the breaks in the wall are coming from the other side, The very real people we write and squee and post about are poking their heads through the wall, sometimes even stepping over it and taking a look around. And the great conundrum of our fannish era is that we can't stop them....It's the culmination of a process of increased visibility that started the moment fandom moved to the internet and accelerated rapidly with the move off of the listservs and onto lj. [5]

Does Higher Visibility Make for an Illusion of Understanding?

Many fans believe that the continued insistence by some of maintaining the illusion of the Fourth Wall in the face of increased interactions between content creators and fans only harms both groups and fosters ongoing misunderstandings. From the 2015 article titled: "Tyler Hoechlin, Sterek, Conventions and The Fourth Wall":
"Due to the growing ease of communication between fans and producers there seems to be an assumption within some groups that actors and creators and even official social media have a more comprehensive understanding of fandom than is likely considering their relatively limited exposure.......this attitude also creates the illusion of understanding between fans and producers. Some fans assume that because they know the definition of the word “slash” that they understand the practice on a fandom level, which is just not realistic. They really only have limited access to fan practices and the majority of their knowledge still comes from non-fandom sources that are not known for being particularly flattering. This is where fandom’s insistence on maintaining the illusion of the fourth wall becomes particularly problematic. Fandom’s blanket self-censorship doesn’t work because there are always those willing to talk about shipping anyway. Besides, it’s not like it’s actually hidden. Most fan practices take place in public forums that are accessible to anyone with an Internet connection. Those involved in production, including actors, are often only exposed to the stuff their friends send as a joke or the things journalists use to make them uncomfortable and of course their interactions with the few shameless people that are willing to face the wrath of the fandom (usually because they don’t care what fandom thinks)."[6]

The Fourth Wall: Not Just a Fan Choice

From The Long-Delayed Fourth Wall Meta (2018):

Where the fourth wall falls, how well defended it should be, when and how it is appropriate to breach it, these decisions aren't only fandom's to make. We can and should create our own expectations and norms for appropriate fan behavior, but there are no guidelines for how are fan objects should interact with fandom. And even if there were, they're not ours to decide. We say it over and over again, the people we write fic about are not part of our community, this is not about or for them. And that's good, that's right. But we can't go around constantly reiterating their status as outside our community, as objects instead of participants, and then of and then demand that they conform to our community-specific standards and rules. The prevailing (although not unanimous) opinion within fandom is that everyone's better off sticking to their own side of the wall. But we cannot apply that standard outside of fandom. And outside of fandom is where are fan objects reside. More and more of the objects of our fannish attention are poking their heads over the wall and saying, "hmm, that looks kind of interesting over there." Most of them will probably be confused and bemused by what they find here. A few of them may be traumatized and offended. But some of them will, to a greater or lesser extent, come to understand and "get" fandom better through their interactions with us. And that, I sincerely think, is only of the good. [7]

Whoops: "his ears weren't the only thing about him that was pointed"

A 1987 comment by Mark Lenard, the actor who portrayed Sarek and the Romulan Commander:

Did I tell you about … years ago I used to get a lot of fanzines. All kinds of them. And you know about the x-rated fanzines. I never, well, I looked at them sometimes. Sometimes I didn't. Threw them in the back of the car or something. One day I got into the car and my daughter was four years old then. She got into the backseat and there was this fanzine there. She opened it up and there was a centerfold and who should be on the centerfold but Spock. And I'll tell you only that his ears weren't the only thing about him that was pointed. She was four then. She seemed, I won't say unimpressed, but it didn't seem to bother her particularly. She's 21 now. She seems to, you know, have grown up all right. I resolved never again to leave any of that stuff around, any of the fanzines around without looking at them first. [8]

A Focus on the Fans, Not Idolatry

A fan in 2016 comments on a 2009 quote by David Duchovny:
[Fandom] takes the place of some of the functions of a church in a small town: A place where people come together, ostensibly to worship something. But really what’s happening is you’re forming a community. It’s less about what you’re worshiping and more about, “We have these interests in common.” Someone has a sick aunt and suddenly it’s about that, raising money to help her or sharing resources to make her life easier. That’s what it was about with The X-Files on the Internet.

I’ve never really seen any celebrity “get” fandom the way Duchovny did. A lot of people read that quote and, at the time, mistakenly read it as David saying he was like a god. But what he meant was that (as I believe he clarified elsewhere) fans didn’t need him to make an appearance. Fandom wasn’t about him. It was about us–the fans.

I want us to not forget that. When the fandom’s centre stops being the community of fans and becomes, instead, focused on–even blinded by–the glittering idol, then fandom itself becomes nothing more than idolatry–with all of us, as individuals, jockeying for a touch or a piece of that idol and stomping over each other to get it.

I’ve seen fandoms fall apart when that happens. I’ve seen fandoms become places where fans know and care more about the celebrities than we do about each other.

I know there are good reasons for fans to create personas and screen names. But this might be a good time to re-introduce ourselves to each other. And to think about how much more important that is than is meeting a famous person at the stage door. [9]

The Fine Line TPTB Walk

A 2016 comment by Dovya Blacque:

Some actors have made their pov very clear to their fans and, for the most part, fans respect their desire not to acknowledge the slash aspects of fandom. However, for me, it's not really whether an actor does or doesn't find slash appropriate. It's the way the actor relays his/her pov that can make or break that actor's (or the show's) relationship with their fans who are part of the gay community. I adore Jensen Ackles but find the way he chose to respond to the situation [at a recent con] unrefined and would love to see him find the words that would both explain his pov on the subject and not alienate his fans at the same time. [10]

Variations

Confronting the Subject of Fanworks with a Fanwork About Them

Another fan showed a manip by The Theban Band to the LOTR actors: See The Theban Band: Visibility

Asking Actors and Other Canon-Creators in Public What They Think About Controversial Themes

  • During the break between season 2 and 3 Teen Wolf cast has been asked a lot about Sterek during mainstream interviews as well as in interactions with fans. It was one of the most discussed aspects during the time, to a point when in 2014 Tyler Posey's frustrated response to a Sterek question caused Poseygate

Public Reveal of Fanworks for Wank/Attention

Actors/Producers/Writers... Purposely Involving Themselves

Kandy Fong: — Walter's coming around through, and he goes, "Oh, you've got slash. You got any, listen — Kandy, why is it can I never find any slash that has Koenig it in?" I mean, Walter in it. I mean — (laughter)... He wanted to know why his character wasn't being slashed. I'm kinda going —
Marnie S: He was not... deterred by it. In fact, he used to tease George about it.
KF: Yes. (laughter) So, anyhow, he goes up and he sees this story, and I said, "And these stories are terrible." And he rolls it up and he decides to give a dramatic reading... About how the two guys had to go down to a planet and seduce the court of the queen, so they'd give them dilithium crystals, for the ship is trapped in orbit and can't get out. And so these two young men had to go down there and please the ladies of the — So, he's reading this thing out loud, very dramatically, and just enjoying the heck out of it. So—
MS: He got a huge kick out of things like that. [13]
  • the Lemming Comment: in 2007, Joseph Mallozzi (writer and producer for Stargate) mentioned the idea of anonymously posting on a forum regarding Boston Legal:
    Fondy and I are working our way through the second season of Boston Legal and are really enjoying the series. But one thing I found quite bizarre was the disappearance of one of the cast members. She’s in the show’s opening credits but only appeared in a handful of episodes before vanishing completely. Strange. She was a likable enough character. I wondered who was to blame for her disappearance. Was it the producers? The network? The studio? The actress herself? Was it a variety of factors? Some of the above? All of the above? Or maybe none of the above? Well, there was one thing I knew for sure, and that was that I knew nothing for sure. I considered joining some online fan forum and joining the chorus blaming the producers for her sudden disappearance, that episode with the singing, and my dog’s eye condition - but ultimately decided against it because I realized it would only make me sound like a shrill and ill-informed lemming. Still, it was tempting. There’s something strangely comforting and delusively empowering about chiming in with an anonymous mob, albeit one that lacks any true insight into the reality of a situation. [14]

Discussing Fanworks in Non-Fannish Spaces

Some Fiction Examples

Further Reading/Meta

1996

  • In 1996, there was controversy in the Highlander fandom when a fan showed the one of the show's actors a fanwork. One response: two fans get a cease and desist: [17] The fan gets a follow-up letter telling her the Cease and Desist was a complete mistake. [18]

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Other Topics of Possible Interest

References

  1. valarltd, January 27, 2015, comment at Was Fanfic Any Different in the Olden Days? (2015 Tumblr discussion thread)
  2. This fan may be referring to Space Trek #2 which was in 1983 or Space Trek #3 which was in 1984.
  3. comment by Dovya Blacque, March 2016, posted to Zinelist, quoted with permission
  4. Back in the day, I was a member of the Kevin Spacey fandom. Yes, Kevin Spacey has a fandom., bnfshavemorefun, June 24, 2004
  5. from The Long-Delayed Fourth Wall Meta (2008)
  6. Tyler Hoechlin, Sterek, Conventions and The Fourth Wall, Archived version
  7. from The Long-Delayed Fourth Wall Meta (2008)
  8. from IsisCon Transcript, August 30, 1987, Washington, DC, compiled by Lynda King
  9. comment by Miriam Heddy: middle-aged goth chick builds table in tree, Archived version (March 3, 2016), responding to a quote by David Duchovny: Actors Who Get Fandom, Archived version (January 10, 2009) }}
  10. comment by Dovya Blacque, March 2016, posted to Zinelist, quoted with permission
  11. Why fans are outraged at Sherlock and Watson reading sexy fanfic, Daily Dot, Aja Romano
  12. You Tube vid
  13. Media Fandom Oral History Project Interview with Kandy Fong and Marnie S
  14. Thoughts and Tirades, Rants and Ruminations; Archive, January 15, 2007 (the comments regarding his "lemming comment" below this post are very interesting)
  15. [1] Sandy Keene (Older). As Lucid As Hell. Accessed January, 2009.
  16. [2] Gus Goes For the Gold Star (on Yuletide). Accessed 28 December 2009.
  17. Screw this.; archive link, by Vicki Farmer, Ocotber 29, 1996
  18. Having my say.; [ http://archive.is/JFU31 archive link], by Vicki Farmer, October 30, 1996