K/S & K.S. (Kindred Spirits)/Issues 9-10

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K/S & K.S. (Kindred Spirits) Issues
Issues 001-002 Issues 003-004 Issues 005-006 Issues 007-008 Issues 009-010 Issues 011-012 Issues 013-014 Issues 015-016 Issues 017-018 Issues 019-020 Issues 021-054
Zine
Title: K/S & K.S. (Kindred Spirits)
Publisher:
Editor(s): Central Mailers: BH (#1-#12), NS (#13-), DM (1988), LB (1993), BA (1997-1998)
Type: APA, letterzine
Date(s): 1982 until at least 1998 (as print), however, it also moved online in 1996 to become K/S Circle
Frequency: supposedly every two months but was more erratic than that
Medium: print
Fandom: Star Trek: TOS
Language: English
External Links:
Click here for related articles on Fanlore.

K/S & K.S. (Kindred Spirits) is a Kirk/Spock slash apazine.

There were 54 issues published between 1982 and 1998.

Issue 9 (1984)

K/S & K.S. (Kindred Spirits) 9 was published in July 1984 and contains 100 pages. It has a cover by PJM. The deadline for the next issue is August 17, 1984.

front cover of the issue #9, PM is the artist

This issue has 16 tribs by 24 members. Two members (SF and LB) have dropped out. There are spaces for five new members.

Tribs: CD (From the Suburbs #4), TGK (And in this Corner... #9), LF (Lavender Diversity), RKL (Ruth's Riteings), KS (Reviews of ST: III), PJM (Heart's Entwined). SBS (Ears Only #8), MB (Amazing Space #3), CH (The Lamarians Go Home!), SL (6/11/84), WR (Out of the Halls of Vapor and Light), JG (Unity of Opposites), DD (Just Words #9), GSD (Activated K/S Gene), BW (Movie Comments), AC (Opposite Poles #8)

Fanworks and other:

From AC:
I'm uncertain of how to begin [regarding the newest Trek movie]. I guess because I've never been comfortable with holding a minority opinion — not afraid to — just not comfortable with it. Head on is best, I suppose so... I didn't leave the theater feeling like I wanted to drop kick Harve Bennett's ass into the nearest large body of water. Honest that's the best I can say about it. It didn't offend me as much as the second movie but somehow I want more from Star Trek than that, I think I've finished my voyage on Harve Bennett's Enterprise (or whatever he thinks is a better name for the "better" designed ship he plans on giving us). His vision of Trek is too far removed from mine. Oh, I'll still go see a new movie, but only once for the sake of discussion and in the never dying hope that maybe this time they got it right. No more buying the video tape, no eager anticipation, and no buying of any merchandise connected with them. Maybe I'll start a trend and professional Trek will become unprofitable and then I m sure they'll stop mucking it up. I think there are a few people out there surprised that I could possibly think that they had failed to capture Trek again.

[snipped]

Contrary to what you might think from reading the above I enjoyed much of the movie and thought it came closest to what I love about Trek. I'll even have to go one last time since I promised [B] and I'll enjoy those same parts again, but there's a cloud. [B] make sure you're sitting down when you read this next par t— I'm starting to lean more to your point of view — it's getting harder to view this movie just as a fanzine. When I can get that perspective I really enjoyed the movie, but when I can't get it — when I realize that most fen are going to love it and accept it as canon it depresses the hell out of me.
From BH:
Gee. THE MOVIE. Where to begin? I've seen it a total of three times now, and the only conclusion I have come up with so far is that although I really love it, I also really detest it. Did anyone else have that kind of a reaction?

[snipped]

Although I really like the end sequence where a born-again Spock is attempting to remember everything (I love the different expressions on all of their faces as he goes down the line and looks into each one), I found all that 'Vulcan mysticism' crap to be a little overpowering. That was always one beef that I had with KRAITH too — for all that Vulcans are purported to be totally unemotional creatures completely devoted to logic, they sure do have a whole lot of superstitious, mystical, illogical, hidebound-in-tradition customs. The pon farr business I can see that has to do with a very real, physical, biologic impulse that must be dealt with SOMEhow. But what was the point of say, for instance, those bejewelled Vulcan babes flitting about in their little diaphanous outfits, all the while gesticulating in an odd manner? And they think humans are hard to understand! Just once, I'd like to see what a normal day on Vulcan looks like, on a weekday, on the street in the residential section of ShiKahr, round about noon, for example.

The very worst thing about this movie is the fact that the Enterprise gets blown up. I'm sure that Harve Bennett is to blame for this, and I really don't believe that he had any right to do such a thing. I think it's his way of dismissing us older (hardcore) fans and of ushering in a newer (younger) generation of fans (symbolized by the Excelsior). I will never forgive him for this.

On the other hand, once you decide that you're gonna blow up the Big E, there's really no other better way to do it than the way they did it in this movie. Enterprise doesn't get blown out of space by some other ship, she goes out in a blaze of glory, taking most of the enemy with her, and it's Kirk himself who initiates that final destruct sequence. Once I got over the shock (not even Spock-shock from TWOK was as bad as this), I came to realize that if they were really determined (as they apparently were) to blast the Enterprise into nonexistence then - they could not have done a better job of it. (What AM I saying!??) It was logical, it was dramatic, it was visually spectacular, and in the context of the movie, it worked. I'm just sorry that the Enterprise had to be sacrificed in order to satisfy HB's everything-has-its-price approach to ST.

Another thing I really hated was Kirk's line, "I have HAD enough of YOU!!" right before he kicks Kruge over the cliff. I don't deny that Kirk would have done that to save himself and Spock, but he would never have said something so totally out of character as that. This one line was one of the more blatantly horrendous moments in the movie, I thought.
From GSD:
I've noticed that any number of writers have adopted (and adapted) [Gayle F's] creation of the S'kan'dari, the Vulcan version of the Theban Band, and usually without citing the source, (which, incidentally, is her series DESERT HEAT).
From GSD:
On the subject of various Vulcan anatomies: Leslie Fish's versions (SHELTER and POSES) is shown in her original illustrations in WARPED SPACE #20 and OBSC'ZINE #1 and also in THE OTHER SIDE; to my eyes it resembles nothing so much as an ear of green corn sprouting out of the center of a trillium lily. Then there are Bev Zuk's drawings [1] in Lois Welling's THE DISPLACED. This version has prehensile tendrals. Cardiane Wedgett's Vulcans (R&R) come equipped with rows of rickrack which become erectile during pon farr, to stimulate ovulation, (illustrations by Embry [sic].) [2] Then there is [Gayle F's] retractable apparatus in MIRRORS OF MIND AND FLESH. In NAKED SINGULARITY, Nicole Silver does give Spock two organs, one of which is much smaller than the other. She has also found a rather unique positioning for the primary organ [3] To spread out among other types of aliens, Susan Crites' Klingons have hairy slip covers. And Fish's Andorians have a physiology which changes according to whether they are male, female, or neuter. Fish has also gone into the area of diverse female anatomy with her Andorians and Vulcans. In FUTURE WINGS there was a story about M'ress in which she seemed to have the standard feline arrangements. The human male who wanted to make love to her wasn't sure what he was to do about her tail. I'm sure there are many others I've forgotten or missed, I've not read every zine produced in the last six years, just most of them.
From DD:
[Addressing this zine's Central Mailer]: PLEASE keep your promise and get this out on time. I suspect some of our lost members were lost because the of the long gaps, during which they'd forget what was being discussed. The APA has been a great way to get to know more K/S fans, especially the ones that don't go to the same cons I do. Also as a writer, I find the airing of other points-of-view most valuable.
From JG:
Because of the strong K/S implications, the absence of some of the glaring errors in TWOK, and LN's smooth direction, I found this film the most satisfying of the three.

Before I mention some of the moments I loved most in the film, there are a couple of things I have to get off my chest. The scene where Kirk falls apart on the bridge after learning of David's death was probably the single most out-of-character incident I've ever seen in ST. Furthermore, since Spock was standing right there on the planet and since Kirk had just learned he was alive, the scene rather undermined the premise for the film. Kirk had risked everything to take Spock back to Vulcan — now there was more at stake than ever. Everything depended on Kirk to get them out of the jam they were in. In that situation, for Kirk to allow himself the luxury of wallowing in tears for even a moment was totally irresponsible.

I know it's argued that the producers might have included that scene in response to the criticisms of Kirk's seemingly too-quick recovery from Spock's death. Isn't that saying "two wrongs make a right"? Besides, it seems kind of silly for Kirk to collapse in helpless grief over David when he'd stayed away all his life. Sure, maybe Kirk and David reconstructed their relationship in the interim between the films. But if it happened, we didn't see it, and if you have to imagine it, it might just as well not have happened.

[snipped]

I'm passing over whatever halfhearted nods in the direction of science fiction the film contained. As a K/S fan, I sometimes feel I've struck a Faustian bargain with the moviemakers: "Bring Spock back to life and don't destroy the K/S premise, and I'll accept any other schlock you dish out." In any case, I came away from this film feeling the K/S premise is relatively secure.

[snipped]

On a totally different level, the film — for all that it moved me — left me with an acute sense of frustration. Taken together, the three films have suggested a depth and intensity of love between K & S that even the best fan fiction has yet to capture. Yet the pair have had so little interaction in any of the films.

I feel a strong need for the concreteness, the everydayness, of the Kirk/Spock relationship of the series.
From JG:
I'm including a copy of The Letter That Couldn't Be Printed In INTERSTAT, along with a copy of the editor's rejection letter. I'm including it because I think it was an excellent letter, whether you agree with it or not, and deserves to see print. I would enjoy hearing your comments about the letter and its rejection. (After Sandra Necchi's letter was rejected, I wrote to protest the rejection and to date my letter wasn't been printed either.)
From JG:
I agree that writers improve with practice and feedback from their readers. One thing I notice about some of the best writers in fandom -- Lois Welling, Syn Ferguson, Leslye Lilker and Leslie Fish -- is how secure they are in themselves as writers. This sense of security (whether it stems from a deeper personal security or from a passionate commitment to writing, I don't know) allows them to use reader feedback selectively, to pick and choose among readers' and editors' comments for the ones that will improve their work. Lois Welling, for example, is a joy to work with -- she's so excited by the ideas in her work, she's never defensive yet she stands firm for what she thinks is best for her story, and she's always on the lookout for what will help her grow as a writer.
From JG:
I understand the point you make that you are interested in rape stories to show the heroes' inner strength of character, but that still begs the question -- why choose rape or torture or other forms of physical violence as a vehicle to show the heroes' rising above adversity? The hero's triumph over adversity is a standard literary format, but of all the classic works of literature that use this format I can think of very few that use tor ture, rape or slavery. For that matter, I don't think that rape and violence are particularly effective as vehicles for showing the heroes' inner strength of character. The function of adversity in classical tragedy is that the hero must learn and grow to overcome it. About all that happens in a torture story is the restoration of the status quo — recove ry from, or cessation of, physical pain. To me, the classic "triumph over adversity" story in fan fiction is ALTERNATIVE UNIVERSE 4, which didn't involve physical pain but rather, what I think would be a much more devastating experience for Kirk — the loss of his command. (For the same reason, I think "Courtmartial" is a much more powerful and interesting episode than "The Empath.") Of course, I agree that using rape or torture in a story can be a way of showing our heroes triumph over adversity. What I find disconcerting is the frequency with which these themes are used. If you compare fan fiction to almost any other literary genre (except maybe pornography), there does seem to be a disproportionate number of stories which focus on rape, slavery, or gross violence.... [GAR] - I wish you would not react personally to my comments -- I'm basically interested in discussing the subject of rape and violence in K/S stories as a general issue, rather than in terms of any apa members' stories in particular. I am not familiar enough with your writings to discuss them in this context -- my comments to you were based on a couple of remarks you made in previous apas about enjoying your own rape or bondage fantasies, enjoying an occasional "get-Kirk" story, etc. (If in fact you never made such comments, I will gladly stand corrected.) Interest in rape and slavery themes is a relative matter: My own perspective is based on the fact that although I have lots of K/S fantasies, they've never involved those particular themes. Of course, I agree that r.pe and bondage stories can be enjoyed simply as good stories, if they're good stories, but on reading these tales (e.g. most of the stories in CONTACT) my feeling is usually that there is a strong element of the author's personal fantasies involved. Of course that may not be true of every individual author, but it seems to be a common pattern.
From JG:
My daughter is nine; she was seven when TWOK opened. At age 4 she earned the title of "World's Youngest Dirty Old Broad" with her interest in Pat Stall's artwork. Pat wrote a "love slave" vignette for NAKED TIMES III featuring (among other things) a sehlat. [N] asked for it as her bedtime story every night for weeks. Pat was so tickled she gave [N] reams of her gorgeous foldouts. [4]
From JG:
I agree that the Spock fan who writes from Kirk's point of view and is a "receiver" is in exactly the same position as the much-maligned Mary Sue; this type of K/S is perhaps what led one hostile reader (was it Fran Hitchcock?) to claim that K/S is "a type of Mary Sue." But of course that is only one variety of K/S. As I write this, I have just returned from a seminar for people in the mental health field on "Spirituality and Self-Esteem," and I found myself thinking of fandom and Mary-Sue-ism many times during the discussion. The connections I was making were something like this. Spirituality and self esteem both involve learning to love yourself so that you can love others; overcoming alienation from yourself; making connections within yourself. For many fans, STAR TREK (which has been called a "religion") also serves to help us reintegrate, make connections, overcome alienation. (Roddenberry has written that Kirk and Spock were the two halves of his "ideal self.") Through identification with and love of the characters, we reach out to our "ideal selves" and through that ideal self to the "other." Mary Sue-ism is part of that process. But Mary Sue-ism is a type of self-esteem that has turned into dependency. Mary Sue exists so that her favorite character exists so that her favorite character will love her, not so that she can love others. One of the panelists in the discussion this evening, a Roman Catholic priest who is also a substance-abuse counselor and runs a local half-way house, spoke of how self-esteem can become "addictive." We can become addicted to our own self-love. And in the "relationship" stories we write, we can become addicted to receiving, not giving. Fandom itself, with its creativity and sharing, inspires giving. At the same time, people can become "addicted" to fandom. We've all seen addictive fannish behaviors — becoming obsessed with the show, the stars, or with K/S. Some fans even become "addicted" to the recognition they receive from other fans.
From WR:
I'm going to make this short because I have lots to put in this zine this issue and not lots of money for xeroxing. I figure everyone will be analyzing, dematerializing, desensitizing, etc. Trek III until there's nothing left so I'll just make my own analysis brief. My heart went out to it. I would like to see Nimoy direct the fourth one. I would like to see Shatner and Kelley formally recognized for outstanding acting. I would like to see Mark Lenard in the fourth one...and last but not least, I'm glad David got axed. End analysis. What more can I say? It is a fan's movie. It even holds to the K/S premise for those who chose to view it that way. Nimoy did good...no, better than good...he did excellent! The movie shows how much the people who did it loved it. That's the way it should be.
From SL:
Regarding the question of why is there always seems to be a Vulcan ceremony involved in any formal commitment Kirk & Spock make? It possibly has something to do with a general fascination with all things Vulcan, especially anything concerning a bond (which is, of course, a Vulcan concept in ST) or formal marriage. Also since fanfic has developed the idea of Vulcan Warrior bonding, a concept applied to Kirk & Spock, it would make sense, in that context, to have then go to Vulcan for any ceremony. There also is the fact that writing about some thing unknown is always more interesting than writing about the familiar. Most of us are so familiar with a variety of different forms of marriage on Earth that we take them for granted and find little of interest to say about them.
From SL:
Never did I dream they would make such a K/S movie. The emphasis on Kirk and company being willing to give up all for a friend makes a powerful statement. Especially the lines given to Kirk in the beginning of the film are tremendously K/S. Course, I realize I'm a mite prejudiced, but even if you don't accept K/S in the slash fandom sense, the film makes an incredible statement in terms of a Kirk & Spock relationship. This movie may well be very hard to accept for those fans who don't even believe in or approve of K&S as a relationship fandom. You simply can't ignore it because this is not an action/adventure picture, it's a character study without any doubt. Well I could undoubtedly rave on for pages and pages. Nimoy's brief appearance at the end is touching and effective. His raised eyebrows at the end are almost, tho not quite, as good as an embrace. Now I can hardly wait for ST IV to see how they tie up all the loose ends.
From CH:
The point you made shout IDIC and the "discussions" in Interstat that never progressed beyond hurling opinions at each other is a really good example of why I don't get Interstat anymore. It's been more than a year now, but I suppose it hasn't changed?
From CH:
I'm curious. How do you get a zine to a customer if the British (or any other) P.O. stops it at Customs? Do they send it back with a Sharp Note? Or do you lose the copy and just send another one? It's a good argument for putting [Gayle F] illos inside, beautiful as they are.
From CH:
Your explanation of Leslie Fish and The Weight and how she used the story to move message struck a true note, for in my own case, it explains why I never read all the series. I think I read 3 or 4 longish sections before I gave it up. It was not only the frustration of reading a massive work in dabs, but the message seemed to conflict with the story, to fight with it. I wonder if the effect would be the same if I could sit down and read the thing all the way through?... Anyway, if Leslie was suckering us into reading her political position with this story, she failed in my case, became I could not see these people as characters from Star Trek, and I finally gave up. She did get it in the story in Fesarius -- I enjoyed that one tremendously, despite the Harlan Ellison clone, even though her views don't precisely match mine.
From MB:
Cagney & Lacey is a good example of real women. They aren't exceptionally beautiful(although I find many things about both their personalities beautiful)and they depict the career woman and the woman who has a family and a career. Of course Lacey's husband is a gem, and on a DONAHUE show many of the women in the audience objected to Harve (the husband) as being unrealistic. Qf course, in my experience he's NOT uncommon, but to many of the women in the audience I suppose he was. What I appreciate about it is that he IS there as an example. Even if women don't want to believe men like that exist, he's there to show men AND women otherwise.
From MB:
I enioyed your comments on opinions, [JG], I have found your line an interesting study in how to communicate with people while sayinq what you feel more as observations than an opinionated point of view. You can mariaqe to state a point on a subiect that could otherwise come across to the reader as beinq an attack without ever attackinq. Your abiility to always sound diplomatic is very commendable. It is often difficult to sound nice in print when making a constructive comment to someone. Communicating with the printed word is far more difficult than sitting across the table from someone. All sorts of innuendoes can be read into statements, degrees of harshness that can be tempered with tone of voice cannot be relied upon. It's difficult, but you're settinq wonderful example. Thank you. You appear to take no offense at comments directed to you than seem harsh and you manaqe to take attackers off quard by sincerely discussinq the subject. The latter statement in that sentence doesn't really describe what you're doinq there. I can't actually label it because I'm havinq a hard time defining it myself, but it works wonderfully,
From MB:
I aqree that society encouraqes men to acquire "hard and primitive" sexual urqes, I found that when I started to develops these traits(which was quite late in life compared to how most men experience it)many other aspects of my personalitv chanqed as well, I qained a qreater deqree of self confidence, less of a fear of men (sexually speakinq)* and a qreater understandinq of the male of the species, I can't say that I opened up to my sexual awareness through K/S, but when it arrived it definitely helped to produce it. Here's an interestinq psycholoqical point. Prior to K/S I was more in tune with Spock (the series Spock) virignal, untouchable, aloof) and after K/S found myself an avid Kirk person, I was more able to understand his drive, his sexual aura because I was beginning to understand my own libido.
From MB:
I liked the Lennon illo in Final Frontier 2. Liked the style, liked the face. A nice dedication too.
From MB:
I sat here tryinq to think about the men I knew who escape into fantasy, and I could think of very few. Many of the men do so as an art form, writers, painters, etc. Of course we women use that same outlet, but we go further with it to occasionally and write fanzines, tape episodes.
From MB:
I remember when it was common to relieve unsolicited fliers in the mail. This was when fandom was a bit smaller and SASE's were unheard of. I still like receiving fliers. I've often judged a zine by the flier. I know this doesn't always work, but it can oftentimes give you an idea of the quality of the work that's involved.
From MB:
I envy all of you who are qoinq to Shore Leave and Media Con. I know everyone keeps tellinq me that if I weren't qoinq to Zebra Con (SH)I could afford Shore Leave. It's iust that I think this may be one of the best years for Zebra Con, I've never been to one but have heard wonderful thinqs about it. Shore Leave will be there next year, but I'm not sure about ZebraCon. With the influx of new blood into the fandom who knows, but it'll be a one and only for me. Besides I do plan on meeting a lot of you out here at World Con at the K/S party. My niece [N S] is planning a big bash Saturday night for the California K/S'ers. See you there!
From MB:
[In fan stories there is] definitely a good part of it is the desire to be loved and cared for as we have our heroes do. The example that we see in fan writing of K&S sharing emotions with one another, or what was aired on S&H as the kind of relationship I wanted to have with the men I knew.

[snipped]

I think we're getting a fine role model with the Cagney & Lacey series. Their camaraderie reminds me a lot of the strictly "straight" aspects of the S&H relationship, the teasing the caring. The May 14th episode dealt excellently with decisions that women haye to make,I find this show satisfying in that my strong fascination with the male/male bond and the desire to share in that has always raised the guestion in my mind as to why women don't haye better relationships with one another,and don't we miss seeing portrayals of such. Of course, I've found that K/S and S/H fandoms share a very close companionship amongst its fans. Outside of this fandom though I often think our abilities to share our emotions with one another as females is as difficult as it is for the male of the species. We're not so different after all.
From PJM:
Wasn't IDICon a lot of fun, [BPG]?
From PJM:
I've not tread my copy of BLACK STAR yet, either. I have decided to save it until the K/S sequel comes out.Then I'll read them together. I couldn't get into Dreamlovers, but I'm going to try again.
From PJM:
I enjoyed reading about the different wavs some of our members approach zine reading. I take a different approach myself. I usually skim the zine first for artwork. If I see something that looks interesting, I check the author,then read the ending. That's right. I even read the ending of novels before reading them. I've tried to break myself of this habit, but so far haven't succeeded. Anyway, it doesn't seem to spoil my enjoyment and it eases the tension a bit. I hate to see a good story ruined by what I consider an unsatisfactory ending. I must admit, however, that I have occasionally misjudged a book by its ending, so now I also rely on the advice and recommendations of friends.
From PJM:
I would question what makes one time line more valid than another, except that one of them happens to be ours. In Leslie Fish's "Sunset and Evening Star," the alternate universe is actually a much better one and I, for one, felt great sorrow that it "had" to be destroyed.
From PJM:
I was at IDICon. I thought it was a wonderful success. Sorry I didn't see more of you there.... The only thing I didn't like about the con was that I ended up buying as much art as I sold. However, I must admit that the [Gayle F] illo makes a lovely addition to my collection (even if I can't hang it in the living room). My favorite part of the con was the male stripper (erotic dancer?) Saturday night- That's right!! The plays, skits, and songs were alot of fun, too. Can't wait 'til next year.
From RKL:
I, too, have thought that many authors wrote H/C stories that were so extreme because they were trying to avoid writing K/S.
From RKL:
I guess this is the place that I am supposed to write comments on the new [Star Trek] movie. Well, as I write this it is still a week before the opening, but I already have a plot summary from someone in NY who saw the movie at a special preview. As I understand it, at one point in the movie, she and two other K/S fans yelled out "HUG HIM, JIM!!!" They found out later that Leonard Nimoy was in the audience. [Added later to her letter]: Well, it is now June 1, 1984 and I saw STIII this morning for the first time. Tell me, have Leonard Nimoy andHarve Bennett been reading K/S fanfic!! This movie was full of K/S!!
From RKL:
I've been wanting to mention a wonderful series of Trek stories that I've been reading, but I haven't mentioned it because the series is not K/S and it also has bean taking place in 12 issues of a zine, and I couldn't very well tell you all to go out and buy 12 zines! But I have recently found out that they are going to do a "collected" issue and so I want to say to you all, "Go out and order this zine!!!!" "What is this incredable series?" I hear you say. Well, I'll tell you. it is called the In a Different Reality. And the 'collected" zine that will be coming out will probably be called In a Different Reality Collected. This series of stories has been written by two women, Cheryl Petterson and Susan Sizemore and has been edited by Marguerite Krause. The stories have appeared in Marguerite's zine IN A DIFFERENT REALITY, starting in issue a of that zine with at least one or two Valjiir stories appearing in each issue through the current issue which is issue #20 (which is totally Valjiir stories). There is much more to come.

In my opinion, this is the best large work that I have EVER read in Trek. I think it is better than Kraith and better than The Weight and it is certainly more fun to read than the others. Although there is some suffering In some or the stories (and a lot of suffering in many of the stories), there is also a lot of joy, and at least Spock doesn't have 'the kiss of death" as he does in Kraith. The Valjiir series centers generally around two new characters (although there are many new characters in this series), Ruth Maxwell Valleyani Ramy and Jilla Costain Majiir, two aliens from different planets (Ruth from Antari and Jilla from Indii) who come aboard the USS Enterprise as ensigns and then get involved with the various crew of the ship.

The story follows them from their teenage years before they join Starfleet and continues on (forever, from what I can see). But each story is complete within itself and although you may want to know more about these characters, you are not left unsatisfied at the end of each story. These two new characters are real people. They have flaws and neuroses and they are loved by some of the crew, but not necessarily by all. These stories also make the rest of the crew more real also, especially your two favorites, K and S.

There are other interesting new characters in this series, who pop in and out of the stories. All of them are very well defined. I don't want to tell you too much about this series, because I think it is more fun to read it yourself. But in it some people on the Enterprise have taken illegal drugs in their past and done other things which are not quite kosher. Also there is a lot of sex going on on the ship, which is what you'd expect if you had a ship full of 430 people. There is a lot of stuff about people's day to day lives, and also a lot of adventures that they go through together. Take my word for it, it is a terrific universe. Also, Marguerite does not send out her flyers for a zine until she has it printed. In the past when I have gotten a flyer from her, I have sent her a check the next day, and usually it is less than three weeks before I have the zine in my hot little hands. Valjiir Collected not printed yet, so she is just taking SASEs.

Usually their zines are very reasonably priced. Tell you what, you all buy it when it comes out. If you read it, and you feel that it was not worth the money you paid for it, send it to me (as long as it is in reasonably new condition), and I will send you a check for what you paid for it. I wouldn't mind haying some extra copies around to lend out. Anyway, I'm positive that none of you will lake up my offer, the stories are so good. But now you have a money back offer from me. Go for it! [5]
From LF:
I'd like to talk about how I feel about Kirk, Spock, and their relationship. I started off as being Spock-identified in my thinking. I looked through Spock's eyes and felt Vulcan, wanting to be more Vulcan, yet wanting oneness with Kirk. That desire for unity with Kirk was so strong that I would never git it up even if all of Vulcan demanded it. Then I became Kirk-identified and felt myself dedicate to Starfleet, loving the Enterprise and command and loving Spock. Then I took a deep step back from Kirk and Spock, and began to see them as separate beings apart from Kirk and Spock, began to see them as separate beings apart from myself and my needs. Then I could write about them.
From LF:
I found out the existence of K/S zine by writing a letter to Jacqueline Lichtenberg complaining to her about her homophobia in The House of Zeor. With her apology she enclosed a batch of flyers including one for Carol Frisbie's K/S one-shot, Thrust. I had already written the play version of By the Stone Ezel. I had been a con-going and loc-writing SF fan for several years at that point, but I didn't have any inkling that other fans shared my fantasy of a gay K/S relationship. I got into correspondence with Carol and she told me about Gerry Downes' Alternative which start the whole thing in its restrained way. It was Gerry Downes who told me about Naked Times. I contributed poetry to NT. A story contest that Della Van Hise ran in NT inspired The Three Searchers, a pre-Reform Vulcan story which did not win the contest. Since an excellent story by Fiona James called The Wise One did, I have no kick coming. I have run Three Searchers and its prequel (A Distance to Travel) in APA Lambda, the gay apa. At that point, I had become bored and disillusioned with K/S zine which is probably unfair since I'd seen very few. Even so, I'd seen some superb fiction. It just seemed that the writers weren't progressing. They were re-hashing the same material. They were being sexist and heterosexist. They had no notion of characterization and the development of relationships. There were some glorious expeceptions -- most notably Leslie Fish, but the vast majority of K/S writers really weren't worth reading. I shouldn't have been astonished. This is in accordance with Sturgeon's Law -- 90% of everything is crap. I don't imagine this situation has changed. Perhaps there is a new writer or two which I haven't read who are fully the equals of Leslie Fish. I wouldn't know. I would like to hear about what's happening these days. I am poor, so I can't afford the zines.
From LF:
I am gay-identified. I try to deal with issues that are important to gays and lesbians in my stories. I confront controversial issues. My solutions to them are unconventional. You will find this out before very long.
From CD:
Let me add my voice to yours in praising Suzan Lovett. Hot only is she a terrific artist - gifted both at facial expressions, erotic poses (yum yum) and bodily pro proportions, but she is, from an editor's standpoint, and an absolute dream to work with. She is so reliable, courteous, and one of the nicest people I've ever met. Three cheers for Suzan!
From CD:
I have received only good comments on Joan Hanke-Woods' cover for "Final Frontier 2" and her Lennon illos. I have never noticed any tendency for ST fans to dislike individualistic styles. [BPG], I hated the porno ads [BPG included in the last issue] - enough of that garbage shows up in my mail, without finding it in the apa. The references to 'young gay rape' and 'chicks' being 'ravaged' were particularly offensive -- sounds awfully close to child porn to me, and that has no place calling itself 'gay' -- it is a sickness all its own and certainly should not be encouraged nor should these people be given free advertising through your zine.
From CD:
My God what a place to leave us dangling [with your WIP fic "Reprise"]. Sadist, and you're the one allegedly not into S&M but you can do that to us? Grumble grumble. Love the line about "that utter trust he would never understand what he'd done to deserve". Lovely. But please next time give us several pages of them fucking each other's brains out.
From CD:
I too vote for Harve Bennett coming out on screen and announcing that Spock's death was a boo-boo and we should forget it. That's a beautiful idea, maybe if we all wrote Leonard and Harve and suggested it?
From CD:
Where did the idea that Vulcans are of feline descent come from? Was that on the animated or someplace else incredibly obvious that I missed? I love it and use it myself, but I'm just curious. [6] Do think think Spock would purr when aroused, as Leslie Fish has it? What do the rest of you think? Also, do they make noise? Is Kirk a screamer? How soundproof are their quarters anyway? Not to mention the turbolift, supply closet, bowling alley, swimming pool, anti-grav room etc.

Issue 10 (1984)

K/S & K.S. (Kindred Spirits) 10 was published September 1984 and contains 62 pages. The deadline for the next issue is October 5.

cover of issue #10

There are 13 tribs by 22 members.

Tribs: SBS (Ears Only #9), TGK (And in this Corner... #10), RKL (Ruth's Riteings), GAR (Star Trek Lives), SW (Fantasies), BL (Imagine), LF (Lavender Diversity #2), BPG (Ad Astra #5), CH (Lamartian Lune), JG (Unity of Opposites), GSD (Activated K/S Gene), JG (Unity of Opposites), BH (For the World is Horny and I Have Touched Spock's Thigh #7)

foldout from issue #10, artist is Barbara P. Gordon -- "About the itty-bitty towel covering Kirk's pretty cock. I wanted to omit the towel. I am not a charter member of the Withered Wienie School of Erotic Art (see recent NTS foldouts). But the editors wanted the towel. No fault of theirs, though.... it was "sold at Space Trek in St. Louis -- and they almost didn't let it in the art show in spite of the towel... But that is bible-belt country, so it figures, I guess." -- Gordon's comments in the 12th issue of this apa

Fanworks and other:

  • some newspaper clippings
  • some poems by LF
  • By the Stone Ezel, part two, fiction by LF
  • another chapter of Rebirth, fiction by JG
  • Fandom's Lost Idealism, essay by Sandra Necchi (printed shortly thereafter in Fesarius #6)
From BH:
Thanks for including that bit about Sandra Necchi/Teri Meyer. I read her (Sandi's) letter three times and still can't figure out why Teri took such great and vehement exception to it. I guess you just can never tell what is going to set some people off.
From GSD:
Some of the earlier zines (T-NEGATIVE, SPOCKANALIA, etc.) explored the possibilities for stories in other areas of the ship not concentrating on the bridge (and the bridge crew). I remember one story that takes place in the Fabrications Section and tells about the problems encountered in keeping a multi-species crew clothed properly for various missions. It was very imaginative. Another story was set in the Ship's Mess. And just thinking about providing a properly balanced diet for such a diverse group of beings is mind boggling. Just trying to keep a family fed and healthy is a bitch to me times.
From JG:
Judy Segal offered an explanation for why there are a lot of fat women in fandom which I don't agree with. She suggests that fat women are attracted to fandom because most inter-fan communication is not face to face and therefore, you can be accepted within fandom for what you are, not what you look like. I've heard variations on this argument before, but I see some problems with it. First, the fans I know write letters and make phone calls to other fans not because they want to engage in non-face-to-face communication, but because they want to talk about STAR TREK. When the opportunity to engage in face to face communication presents itself, e.g. at a con, fans both fat and thin are equally likely to be there. Also, Judy's argument does not explain why people like yourself bring up this topic in non-face-to- face communication forums like the apa. And, if she were correct that some people are attracted to fandom because of its non-face-to-face communication modes, then presumably there would be lots more physically disabled people in fandom than there are.

[snipped]

It's interesting that fen who are themselves fat have written so few stories with characters who are fat. I can think of only one right off the top of my head with a fat character who wasn't either a villain or comic relief. Shouldn't there be more efforts in fan fiction to affirmatively portray characters with all sorts of configurations of bodily proportions? Or is this just another version of the "why-don't-female-fans-write-women" issue?
From JG:
I bet all of us have felt the frustration of encountering ill-informed attitudes based on stereotypes about gays -- or even about K/S. An anti-KS-er who claims that all K/S stories focus only on sex and turn the characters into weepy, hysterical, effeminate, and generally out-of-character souls has probably not read Alternative II/III.
From CH:
Here is an idea of a project. How about someone puts together a list of all K/S zines that have ever been done? Maybe another list of zines that have only part of the contents K/S. It might help when you face an auction list and want to get something K/S if you could consult a list
From BPG:
I'm so disgusted with the vicissitudes of some editors that I'm still thinking of doing a zine myself, but don't know when yet.
From BPG:
Have also been involved in one nasty hassle with a "fellow fan" (ugh!) which may result in a libel/slander suit. It caused me to suffer a creative block for a little while. It absolutely amazes me, the nonsense that some people think they can get away with, and the egotism implicit in their threats. I have now been threatened with getting "drummed out of fandom." Isn't that lovely? And I have written proof that the individual involved is implementing her threat by trying to blacken my reputation in fandom, and it has, of course, gotten back to me.
From BPG, who disingenuously comments on the very anonymous flyer she wrote:
Also attended Shoreleave Con, which has really gone downhill. The big excitement (yawn!) of the con was caused by some kind of flyer being passed around, all of which I didn't read, and have since misplaced, but which seemed to annoy various people, though some seemed amused. I'm getting curious about it...apparently it caused quite a stink, and one person asked me if I knew anything about it...some of what I read did sound familiar. Maybe some fans have had the same problems I've had wth zine editors and such — I'm sure they have! At MediaWestCon, there was something similar, sort of a parody zine flyer, which listed a "Babble Gordon", followed by many degrees & "member of Mensa", as author of a "Space 1999" story -- GOOD GRIEF! I don't mind the parody, but couldn't they have chosen something better than that?! [7]
From BPG (who talks about herself in the third person), regarding The Letter Interstat Wouldn't Print, and more:
Sandra used so many buzzwords and reverse buzzwords, combined with an assertive delivery, that her letter was practically designed to be rejected. It is too bad that it was. Why doesn't she send it & Teri's reply, to the new comment-zine: STAR TREK FORUM c/o Tim Farley, Georgia Tech Box... [8] Part of Sandra's purpose, I know, was to make a statement about the practice of diffusing (and defusing) the essence of B. Gordon's opinions by attacking B. Gordon herself rather than attacking (answering) her opinions, as so many, including Teri, do in Interstat. But in doing so, Sandra fell into the trap itself; she became the "defender" of B. Gordon. Had her letter been published in Interstat, it would have been assumed, and indeed stated, that she was B. Gordon's friend, confidante, and partisan. To Teri, and to the vast majority of readers, the points she actually tried to make in her letter would be misunderstood, discredited, or ignored — because of her being "in B. Gordon's camp". To actually try to make any kind of point in INTERSTAT is an extremely frustrating experience. The only way is by being vocal, definite, and assertive, there by jarring people up a little, making them take notice. And then, as has happened in Sandra's case, my case, and Judith's too, probably, if you become successful, Meyer will certainly muzzle you. Especially lately, she is obviously so defensive and unsure of her own "faith" with regard to Bennett's Blunders and Paramount's Pap, that she'll do anything to defend that Faith — including letter mutilation under the guise of editing, and outright censorship.

[snipped]

The last issue of INTERSTAT was unusually intelligent, I was delighted to see. And I attribute it at least somewhat to my influence. It would seem that fans are possibly beginning to understand the value of being critically, thoughtfully intelligent and don't just automatically swallow all the pap that Paramount produces. Hurrah!!
From BPG:
Just returned from ZCon, where I OD'ed on B/D (Bodie/Doyle, not necessarily bondage/discipline!), both the episodes and the stories, have come to the conclusions that while I like them better than S/H, I'm just not terribly interested in either. In fact, I'm getting generally bored with gaylit, gay-porn, and almost all "slash" fiction (anyone care to join a Movement to call it "stroke" fiction, which certainly has nicer connotations, and is more accurate anyway?). The only reason I read the stuff is for the sex; neither the characters nor their relationship interests me much.
From BPG:
I definitely recommend MIRROR REFLECTIONS (from D. Dabinett), It's the best thing she's ever printed. I did not like CALIFORNIA K/S very much; it was very expensive, with only four or five stories, some good art, but some very bad art. T'HY'LA 4, on the other hand, is very good indeed: a classic that I'm sure will rate with THRUST and P&P. It was really sad that "Roo's" art didn't print better; I love her stuff. I also really like a new artist: Marilyn Cole; she's imaginative & really good.
From SW:
So you're another of those people who read the endings of stories before reading the rest of it. I do, too. I want to know if it's going to have a satisfying ending before I take the time to wade through it all from the beginning. And I don't want to spend my time rooting for a character who is going to come to a hideous end before the last page.
From GAR:
Your comments made me realize that I do separate mind from body, and see love and sex as two totally different things. I have heard that it is perfect when they both go together, but from what I've seen it is rare. K/S relationships are written to watch the authors ideals of such things and as you mentioned earlier, the majority of K/S was hardly worth reading. Most that I've seen talk of the love, but all they show Is plain old horny sex, Mary Sue in drag, seems a perfect definition of the bad ones. Of dominance and submission, doesn't every relationship have that? Someone must lead even if they take turns at It. I have yet to see a story where one of the K/S pair (usually the authors favorite) isn't more dominant!
From GAR:
About what thin people and fat people have in common that draws them to fandom. That's easy, both are variations of the accepted norm and are more likely to be picked on and made to feel inferior. Harder to find friends too, when not accepted by the in-crowd. Usually starts in school cause kids are so mean and clannish unless definitely taught not to. That makes us more prone to look to fiction - for our friends - for our heroes and here in Trek to find an ideal of loyalty and love between Kirk and Spock, even though they are opposites in type and style. The whole Enterprise crew, as has been much quoted, is so different and yet like a family. I went to only one very tiny con of diehard con goers and were they an eye opener into the psychology of fans! Just about everyone was "unique" in form or mind. All loners, yet here they were accepted because they all had love for the same ST show. Long Live Trek.
From GAR:
Your bringing up the fact that one h/c zine ed said she'd had fantasies about pain and suffering, brings me to think, hey, when I was a little kid playing with my toy animals, I would always make up stories where one was bad, scot accidentally hurt and then got all the sympathy from the others. Sort of a child parent fantasy. Then in school as an introverted kid, I would fantasize that if only one of the boys or girls I secretly liked, somehow got hurt, then I could help them and they would know that I liked them and cared about them, but it never happened! Perhaps a combination of mother Instinct as well as a desparate wish to break the ice. Gosh, I never realized h/c had such a deep foundation in the psyche!
From GAR:
That was a good point about Mary Sueism being a part of the give and take of the the love learning process. I don't see why it should be so maligned. People need to get enough love before they can ever give it away and the virtual ban on Mary Sue may be messing up that stage. I think people eventually grow out of fandorm when they finally get enough of whatever it is they need. I don't know about the addicts, that as with any type of addiction is a malfunction of the person themselves and not any fault of Mary Sue stories per say. Another interesting thing you brought up (among many) was that fans could be addicted to recognition by others too. All who participate in this apa letterzine must definitely have some need to be in print or to have someone agree with our views, to know that we aren't alone. I mean, this is no free zine for a poem, we have to pay to print our own letters, and postage and then pay again to get them and the replies. My practical sense feels a bit enbarassed, and tells my ego to cool it. But hey, it's great therapy and writing practice.
From SBS:
There's a Sarek and Amanda story in one of the R&R's (Sorry, that's the only source info I remember (I'm weak on names.) that has Vulcan balls embedded in the abdomen just above the penis. They engorge during sex and are great for clitoral stimulation. Probably too anterior to be massaged rectally.
From SBS:

At first I felt squeamish about commenting on an exchange of letters between two other people, as if I were sneaking around spying on someone else's affairs and stealing their letters open. I suppose it doesn't apply as such to Sandra's letter, since the fact that she sent it to Interstat shows she has expressing those ideas for public consumption and comment, but Teri's letter seemed to have been addressed to Sandra personally, as a private correspondence, and I felt uncomfortably like an eavesdropper. Then I realized how silly I was being: you must have gotten permission from both of them before you published their letters. From things you said in your letters to me I know you would feel that to do otherwise would be a breach of trust and good manners. Since you have already experienced having a private letter made public against your intentions, with all the attendant hurt, annoyance and upset, there's no way you would do the same to anyone else. As to Sandra's letter — I found it interesting. I'd go into detail on it, except that I think you are asking me to consent on whether it should have been printed and not on its content as such. Hell, it's always fun to second guess other people's decisions — the combination of lack of time constraints and the perfect vision hindsight lends lakes for a nearly irresistible temptation (too strong for me, anyway.) Bottom line; If it had been up to me, would I have published Sandra's letter? Yes. And No.

Yes. because I thought it was interesting (and it would have made a nice change from all those pro and con Welcommittee letters). I think the main reason for Teri's refusal to publish is revealed in her choice of the term "insensitivity'. You may feel that she is too sensitive, that her job as editor should preclude such nice care for the feelings of Roddenberry, but I am sure you'll agree that even if it is a flaw it is a long way from being the worst one a person or an editor can have. Myself, I am more hardhearted. As a professional Roddenberry and Bennett, Shatner, Nimoy, and anyone else in the cast and crew you d care to mention has displayed his work for our enjoyment and criticism and I'm sure he's prepared to receive some complaints along with the praise. (Hmm, maybe it is a closer call at that, since Sandra's negative comments on Gene do seem to relate to his business situation/difficulties rather than the quality of productions, which is sort of like criticizing Shatner's personal life instead of his acting.)

And no, because I am unwilling to devote the time, attention and care that something like Interstat demands. If it had been up to me, not only would Sandra s letter not have been printed, but neither would ANY of the hundreds (thousands?) that have been over the past seven years. Just the thought of the hours ot typing, reading, layout, paperwork, running back and forth from the printer, etc. makes me tired — I honestly don't know now she has managed to do it so well — especially an top of raising a family and holding down a full-time job. Of course as an editor/another/employee yourself you appreciate the difficulties such more than I.

If you are expecting some final judgement from me on her performance as an editor, well, here goes: she isn't infallible. But then no one on this planet is (excepting the pope, I hear).
From SBS:
I think members [of this apa] would be interested in Gerald's opinion of K/S, as expressed in the revised edition of The World of Star Trek, pages 120-122.
From TGK:
Well. To paraphrase the immortal Prof. Henry Higgins, by george, I think they've got it. But ye Gods, what have they done to Starfleet?! Most of the officers, Capts. Esteban and Styles especially, are beautiful examples of how I define "gay". Just what did they teach those two in Fleet Academy? Nerdiness I and II? Inventive Ineffectualness? Creative Pansying? If Paramount wanted to have homosexuals in command positions within Starfleet well and good. Did they have to make them into the early 20th century stereotype, though?
From TGK:
It appears that someone at Paramount not only read but took seriously that Out of Bounds story Handball by Homo Erectus! that revealed where Vulcan erogenous zones are. True, they could have been reusing that bit from Enterprise Incident but come on. That was formalized courtship behavior, not even necessarily Vulcan in origin.
From TGK:
I think the first mention of Vulcans being of feline descent was in an article by Sherna Comerford, Juanita Coulson, and Kay Anderson entitled Physiologica Vulcanensis which appeared in the first issue of Spockanalia. There may be other more recent ones, but so far I haven't found them.
From TGK:
I'll go you "Hug him, Jim" story one better; there must have been a lot of K/Sers in the audience besides me because at the point in the movie right after Spock has asked Jim why he came back for him," about 50 people all hollered out "Because he loves him!" Gave me quite a start since it was playing in a Glendale theater, and these people could easily win a prize for being the most conservative, straitlaced people in the universe (excepting the Vulcans, of course!, and most of the attendees were well into the middle aged category.
From TGK:
I think that Paramount thinks that by not allowing [Kirk and Spock] to interact they have foiled the K/S aspects. They even tried to separate them by killing Spock you know, but I guess the ominous rumblings from fandom made them change their collective mind. All the execs thinking together just about make up one subnormal brain, like the Denevan parasites! By the way, if Nimoy and Shatner really have seen some K/S and are embarrassed by it as suggested in the questionnaire you included, would they have planted that end scene in TSFS quite that way, not to mention the sickbay scene in TMP and the scene in Spock's quarters in TWOK), do you think? Is it possible they're telling the media one thing, but are actually trying to slip in as much covert K/S as possible?
From RKL:
Leslie Fish's This Deadly Innocence is a wonderful story and the "ultimate statement" on h/c stories. A lot of of the non-K/S people were getting into such graphic and gory h/c stories that it was pretty obvious where they wanted to go with them, but were afraid. I only wish that Leslie had put some more sex scenes at the end.
From RKL:
I've always thought of a "Mary-Sue" story as being a badly written story that was a thinly veiled wish fulfillment on the part of the author. I think that the operative phrase here Is "badly written". I think that you can break all the other rules, but if a story is well written, then it isn't a "Mary-Sue".
From RKL:
I have met a lot of fan "addicts". For a while, I almost became one myself, nearly sacrificing my relationship with [redacted]. But at a certain point, I pulled back and said to myself, "Wait a minute. What is really important here!?". Now I've got my priorities straight. Fandom isn't the major component of my life. And most importantly, [we] have what I would call a pretty wonderful relationship, it is hard for me to believe now that I almost gave up a wonderful reality for a fantasy (no matter how wonderful that fantasy was or is). I can't cuddle up to K and S at night. I can't cry on their shoulder. K and S won't come home from work to make me lunch when I am sick. And K and S have never told me I love you, always".

References

  1. ^ There are actually no drawings by Zuk of Spock's penis in The Displaced, simply text description.
  2. ^ This was the story A Matter of Life and Death. This penis as imagined by Wedgett appeared a year earlier in B'Yadu in Obsc'zine in 1978.
  3. ^ This story is "Position Impossible" in Naked Singularity. In it, Spock is drugged by a female who slipped him an aphrodisiac, but he, instead of responding to her, comes on to Kirk. In this story, Spock (like all Vulcan males) has two penises. One is the primary organ, and one is a secondary smaller one. The story oddly, doesn't really discuss or utilize this two-dick thing during the sex act, but it gets used as a punch line in a joke at the end where Spock tucks his bigger dick between his buttocks, and displays only his little dick to the woman later to make her uninterested in Vulcans in the future.
  4. ^ This "vignette" is actually a one-page outline, interspersed by a bit of dialogue. In it, Spock purchases Kirk from a slave market. It is very romantic, but not in the least sexually explicit.
  5. ^ from K/S & K.S. (Kindred Spirits) #9 (1984)
  6. ^ That fan speculation began in Spockanalia.
  7. ^ Well, one purpose of parody is to poke fun, not to make someone look good...
  8. ^ This zine, "Star Trek Forum," appears to have not gotten off the ground.