K/S & K.S. (Kindred Spirits)/Issues 3-4

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K/S & K.S. (Kindred Spirits) Issues
Issues 001-002 Issues 003-004 Issues 005-006 Issues 007-008 Issues 009-010 Issues 011-012 Issues 013-014 Issues 015-016 Issues 017-018 Issues 019-020 Issues 021-054
Title: K/S & K.S. (Kindred Spirits)
Editor(s): Central Mailers: BH (#1-#12), NS (#13-), DM (1988), LB (1993), BA (1997-1998)
Type: APA, letterzine
Date(s): 1982 until at least 1998 (as print), however, it also moved online in 1996 to become K/S Circle
Frequency: supposedly every two months but was more erratic than that
Medium: print
Fandom: Star Trek: TOS
Language: English
External Links:
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K/S & K.S. (Kindred Spirits) is a Kirk/Spock slash apazine.

There were 54 issues published between 1982 and 1998.

Issue 3

K/S & K.S. (Kindred Spirits) 3 was published late November 1982 and contains 108 pages.

There were 23 tribs from 25 members.

Tribs: LDB (Spocking of Trek), LB (K/S), MB (Amazing Space), AC (Opposite Poles), DD (Just Words), NE (Out in Left Field), SF (8211.14), BPG (Ad Astra #2), JG (Unity of Opposites), BH (For the World is Horny), CH (Lamartian Lune), CH (Unaccustomed as I Am to Public Writing), SL (11/12,82) BL (Imagine), RKL (Ruth's Riteings), GJO (Dear Bobbie), SBS (Ears Only), KS (turning treks), TG (Et Nunc Et Semper), CAT (And What We Were Before), T'R (And in This Corner), DVH (Another Country Heard From), SW (Fantasies).


  • untitled fiction by LB
  • illo by MB
  • illo by SW
  • untitled humorous poem about T.J. Hooker by SF
  • Rebirth, fiction by JG
  • Gymnastics, poem by CH
  • We're Going Out There, filk to the tune of J. Horner's music to Wrath of Khan
  • various logic, crossword puzzles
  • Kinky Cut-Outs, some paper dolls by KS
  • Friday's Child is Full of Woe, part two by TG
  • How?, poem by T'Rhys
  • Resurrection, part one, fiction by DH
  • Roommates, original fiction by DH
  • The Separation, vignette by SW
From SL:
Why are K/S fans more apt to be involved in creative endeavors? I think part of the explanation is very simple. If you want to read K/S oftentimes you have to write or draw it yourself. For the truly avid fan there is never enough around, it is a rather specialized branch of fandom. Also doing something creative is a great way to meet other K/Sers and ease that feeling of isolation so many of us are familiar with. I know of at least one friend who is editing her own K/S zine not only because she wanted to put out a zine but also as a way to meet more K/S fen. It is all to possible to reach that point of, "I either find someone to talk to about this who understands or drop out completely as it is less painful." Its nice to think as a group we are more creative, sensitive, etc. Its nice . . . but probably not too valid.
From CH:
I must confess to some trepidation when I first saw your name here, [BPG]. I've never been able to [missing word] your wavelength. I followed the Interstat discussions for awhile but got the more argumentative aspects of it all. begin here and I find the aspects disquieting. While it may be somewhat presumptive, could I put my vote here for an apa of discussion, not arguments? I'd really appreciate it.
From CH:
Kraith depressed me. It contradicted some of the aired trek info and some of it was dark, nasty stuff. I can't help it, I think affirmations not practical and the attitudes presented in connection with it illogical. The only thing about it that made sense at all was the idea that Spock might have an older half brother or sister. Kraith took itself seriously — a step beyond fun into "authorized" stories and Kraith Affirmations at conventions.
From CH:
Frankly, I've never been a Kirk fan, but [in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan] they showed Kirk lacking in leadership, self confidence, good sense, knowledge, and judgment. You pointed out to me that that did a hatchet job on him. I'd been dismissing the characterization as bad, but it wasn't that -- it was almost ignorance. If not, why destroy the man? They think that because Kirk is young again, at least in his mind, that he has his ship and is facing the future positively, that they have successfully given us Kirk? No, they have given us somebody, but it isn't Kirk. It is as if Kirk had bean mind-wiped, and recreated using only information on the official record. They have missed the real man. Why destroy the man, belittle the dreams he stood for, remove the hero? Kirk was the human spirit. Why give him not only fast of clay, which heroes have so often anyway, but clay head and heart, too. Or plastic?
From CH:
Sahaj. Sometimes I feel lonely. Everybody liked that rotten tyke except me. I always thought ha was an obnoxious and unreal little creep. It's not that he didn't have some real kid-like qualities, and the stories I read were well written, but the character seemed off-balanced, skewed. On top of that I had trouble with the characterizations of Spock, Kirk and Sarek. Probably the biggest stumbling block was the one I also had with Kraith. The Federation and the characters I envisioned were so different from the way this other person thought of them that I could not get into stories built on premises difficult to accept. I think that I can suspend my disbelief for a short story and enjoy it even when it doesn't match my concepts but that for novels or long series, I can't manage to sustain it.
From CH:
Do tell us how the USPS could return a box of zines, [DVH], and refuse to ship them. Did it happen at the California end or the Michigan end? If the material is not unsolicited, if the person at the end asked for it, where do they get off refusing to ship it? Officially, did they quote any part of the regs to you? I'd like to know what they said — putting out a "dirty" zine myself.
From CH:
I missed the LN special. Just as well. It may not even have been shown here. But I was interested in your point #5, inhere Nimoy said the neck pinch worked because Vulcans "can project a special energy from their fingertips." The most intelligent thing I've ever heard attributed to that man. I had always wondered why the neck pinch should work even on alien species whose anatomy would be unknown to Spock. But the energy of the body, the chi that I've seen evidence of here on earth, that I can accept. All the Vulcan would have to do is flow his chi and interrupt the flow of the other beings body energy. Wammo.
From CH:
I've gone on to others at length on why I like Christine and why some don't like her, and why they prefer a Mary Sue to Christine. Y'see ignoring the K/S possibility, and assuming Spock chooses a woman, Christine isn't exactly primo choice. She is not wildly beautiful — presentable at best. She gets fumble-tongued and babbly under pressure (emotional pressure) tends to stick her foot in her mouth. She has only her loyalty and her love. Which is all any of us might have. I suspect your average fan can feel superior to Christine. Letting her have him is too much like having the competition have him. Christine is our self, the average woman yearning for the "special" man. The same reasons I like her and would like her to end up with Spock are the same reasons others don't like her. She's just such a twit. For - the same reasons fans don't want Christine to have Spock, they might like Kirk to get him. Kirk is not the threat she is. No other woman got him after all. Instead, the one person in the trek universe who is Spock's equal, gets him. Instead of identifying with the wimpy lady, we can identify with the lover, the charmer, the commander with Kirk.
From the central mailer, BH:
Judging by some of the feedback I've been getting, I've been forced to come to the conclusion that I did a rather ambiguous job of explaining the contribution rules so I'm gonna try again. It is not necessary to contribute something to EVERY SINGLE issue. It is only required that you contribute something at least once every 2. issues. And if you DO let an issue go by without contributing anything, you are still a member and will still receive a copy of that issue. Or even if you let 2 issues go by without contributing anything. But if 3 issues go by and we haven't heard from you, we'll assume that you've passed on to a different plane and a fourth issue won't be mailed to you. Does this make any more sense than it did before?
From BH:
At least everyone was in character for ST:TMP. I remember commenting on it at the time (after the movie first came out). It was almost as if they were afraid of going too far, as if having the characters say or do the least little thing might blow the fans' pre-conceived notions of how this or that character might react. I think they were being too careful in the first movie and the end result was that the characters ended up not doing a heck of a lot. Very bland — I believe the term you used was "boring" -- except for McCoy. He seemed to be the only character they could even come close to recapturing, and I wouldn't even credit that to them so much as to the very nature of the McCoy character itself. I mean, irascibility isn't exactly something that takes a lot of time and thought in developing a character.
From BH:
I'd been feeling deprived for a long time now because we didn't get "LN's ST Special" and I've been hearing about it from people all over the country. But I'd never heard any of the specifics such as you mentioned in your "Ears Only: Transcript #2". Now I'm almost glad I was spared, "..special energy from their fingertips???!!!" Give me a break!!!! The way I figure, it's got to be one of two things: LN doesn't consider ST fen to be too intelligent, or, and I find this to be the more likely, he simply doesn't give a shit. "Vulcan Institute of Technology?" Differing translations from the original Vulcanir not withstanding, I think that this type of thing really makes Nimoy look like a dirtbag.
From BH:
think part of the appeal of "get-Kirk" stories for the avid Kirk fan is that William Shatner suffers so well. I mean, you can just SEE those liquid, hazel eyes glazed over with pain, the full lips drawn taut in an effort not to cry out — am I getting carried away again? Well anyway, I didn't mean to sound so bloodthirsty. Actually, I find that I have to be in a certain mood to be able to enjoy "get-Kirk" stories. But you can give me a good "get-Spock" story ANY old time!
From JG:
Maybe one reason K/S fen are so different is that there're so many different kinds of K/S: romantic K/S, hurt/comfort K/S, heroic K/S, realistic K/S, humorous K/S, etc.
From JG:
Why is it so obvious [AC], that Kirk and Spock aren't "bonded"? Maybe you can tell me just what a "bonding" is, anyway. Aside from the fact that the word itself was never mentioned on aired Trek or either movie, what evidence is there that "bondmates" can read each other's minds and sense each other's thoughts? Are Sarek and Amanda "bondmates"? One would think so. But when Sarek had his heart attack(s) on "Journey to Babel," did Amanda have even the foggiest idea that he was in distress? Conjure with that episode for a while as an illustration of what a Vulcan bonding between a Vulcan and a Human would be like, and then
From JG:
I've included some questions on reader identification with the characters. About 85% of all ST fans, K/S or not, identified strongly with either Kirk or Spock or both. There were no significant differences between K/S fen and non-K/S fen in this respect. [BL] and I are planning a survey on K/S for a future zine we are publishing. [1] A fellow K/S fan has drafted an instrument, but other fans are encouraged to submit questions and hypotheses. We will have some high-powered technical assistance on this survey from the head of Research and Evaluation in the multidisciplinary university center I work in, so this is your big chance, K/S fen. Besides, I have to find something to keep my new TRS-80 II computer off the streets, before my kids fill up its data banks with their Dungeons and Dragons programs.
From JG:
I agree with you about the "sin and suffering" in h/c stories. I am reminded of the words a fan-friend recently wrote to me about hurt/comfort: "WHAT IS GOING ON IN THESE PEOPLE'S LIVES?" Does the desire to hurt and punish come from a lack of a sense of self-worth? A leading h/c fan once wrote to me that many h/c writers are women who've been lonely and isolated and bottled up their feelings most of their lives, who've had a hard time expressing emotion and reaching out to others. She said that writing h/c allows these women to work their problems out. I don't know if I'm convinced. I see a lot of people just writing the same story over and over again, with no sign of progress.
From JG:
TWOK really seems to have separated the Kirk from the Spock fans, and the Kirk fans from the anti-Kirk fans. The reactions I've been reading in INTERSTAT bear that out. You see many of the same things in the movie that I do, but you draw very different conclusions from it. To put it very bluntly: in TWOK, Kirk is portrayed as an incompetent starship commander. He simply does not do a decent job commanding his ship. He makes some outrageous mistakes — mistakes that he would have been drummed out of the service for in the original series ("Court martial," anyone?) and in our own time, held civilly or criminally liable for. I don't know what the penalty is for violating General Order 12. I know that in contemporary civilian law, violation of a statute, regulation or ordinance is either prima facie negligence or negligence per se in most jurisdictions if harm to others results. For you, Kirk's errors confirm what you've always expected about him — the worst. For me, they demonstrate that the producers simply didn't understand Kirk — or STAR TREK. They were so interested in getting from Point A to Point B of the plot that they had no interest in portraying how a responsible and talented leader actually functions — which the original series, thank the Great Bird, had the wit and the guts to tackle.
From JG:
I can't for the life of me think of what we were shown on aired Trek that told us that when one "bondmate" dies, the other's death will not be far behind. Who sez that when Spock dies. Kirk must die also? A bunch of soppy fan stories, that's who. Do you mind if I decline to follow this particular Orthodox Party Line? (Did they say Amanda would have died if Sarek had?)
From JG:
[DVH, is your story meant to represent those ST fans who get all mixed up between what is STAR TREK and what is reality? It was competently written, but I kept having the feeling that it must have been written for a writing class assignment or something similar. I hope you'll publish it professionally.
From JG:
Why do some K/S fen want to see the 23rd century as prejudiced against gays? I know that some fan writers who are gay themselves like to use the ST universe to write by analogy about problems that are closer to home. But for others, I see almost a fixation on the "naughtiness" of male-male relationships. You get the feeling that if it isn't forbidden, they lose interest in it.
From BPG:
I believe strongly that you are over-intellectualizing in an attempt to explain K/S "bondage/violence tales" and "torture stories". For most fans they are' simply sexual turn-ons regardless of what fans say or how they try to disguise this with various obfuscations. Hurt/comfort is the obvious analog to the intense stimulation/release of sex, pain and sex are psychological siblings, so to speak. In hurt/ comfort you can have the deep sensations and emotions of sex without activating the mental discomfort and negative feelings arising from your inhibitions and the puritanical aspects of your upbringing. There is no connection between hurt/comfort and a religious "sin and be saved concept" either. There is, however, a definite connection between religious ecstasy and masochism, and through that, to sex, I'm grossly over-simplifying, of course, but this is a little beyond the scope and off the point of this zine.
From BPG:
Everybody has their little hang ups. Some of the English writers particularly — DD being an excellent example — like Kirk-enslaved stories because they remove responsibility from the sex acts. Put into a situation where Kirk has no choice, where he is forced into various "out-of-character" sexual acts and humiliating experiences, he is, after all, not responsible for his actions, so that, as in so much Victorian porn, he can enjoy himself without guilt. And the author of such a story. Also the reader), projected into the Kirk-character as she is, is then of course also able to enjoy the vicarious sexual experience without experiencing any guilt feelings. The problem with this kind of thing in a "slavery" story is that the authors enjoy the forbidden titillation of breached inhibitions more than anything else, more even than the sensual or loving aspects, and sometimes even the plot suffers. They often tend to write some rather sadomasochistic sex scenes which are closer in feel to standard male-written porn than any other kind of K/S. The masochistic element in the sex scenes is, I suppose, vicarious punishment for daring to enjoy the sex vicariously! There are other kinds of "slavery" and "torture" tales, of course, and other reasons for writing them. But a "slavery" story with sex and relationship scenes that lack the element of force, violence, coercion, and masochism so typical of this genre, and thus has other meanings besides the working out of such an author's sexual hang ups, will meet with considerable incomprehension — I speak from personal experience!!
From SF:
I think that material in the APA should also be available for submissions to zines. Our audience is limited here and I think the appetite for K/S is such that stories, etc should be in zines — appearance in the APA is rather like reading something to a friend for comment. I like the idea of listing our con appearances. I shall be at Shore Leave. Speaking of that, I am trying to find out if anyone is interested in doing a K/S skit at that con. There are lots of K/S people there. We could do an episode from the K/S perspective, or whatever else appeals to people. I'd be willing to be involved in the writing, directing , organizing of such an effort. Anyone else interested?
From SF:
After reading your comments, [BPG], in the APA and in INTERSTAT I have to say that I feel sorry for you and the fact that your fantasy has been tarnished to such a degree that you can not enjoy those good moments that did occur in ST:WOK. I guess that I figure no one will make the TREK movie we want until we are the writers but in the meantime, we don't have to accept the movie as gospel. We are free to disregard it (just as Bennett et al did with ST:TMP and much of the series), to integrate it, to ignore it, in short, to do what we will with the movie.
From SF:
I find that I really don't like the explanation of Saavik in the book. I think that Vonda could have come up with far better ways of getting Romulans and Vulcans together without resorting to so much violence. The whole scenario really appalled me — it was not TREK at all. As for Saavik being Spock's kiddo — it takes more contrivance than I care for for that to happen unless you define father in a non-biological way.
From SF:
Even though I would agree that Speck's death is a part of the movie's theme (re-reading TALE OF TWO CITIES did help) I still think that the whole idea was needless in that there were other, better ways to get Nimoy out of the role --- it is in that sense I meant that it was needless. I still feel abused by Paramount over the whole affair, I rather like the idea of Spock — the-planet. The possibilities are endless. I
From SF:
Since most of us are not experienced writers, one of the easiest ways to open up the character, to make her/him react is to hurt them and expose them and then let them grow. From a strictly personal point of view, I can also add, that some days when the mundane world hasn't gone well, and I turn to TREK for relief, I find myself transferring my pain, anxiety, whatever, to the boys. Usually the ideas I come up with on those days never escape my head but often in inflicting pain on them I do come up with a non-painful idea. I think that many of the things we do to K and S or whomever are done in the name of experimenting with writing. I enjoy searching for deeper motives in the writing but I think we overlook a very obvious aspect of why certain things are done to the characters. For example, (and again I speak only for myself) a rather horrid story I wrote about K/S and S being involved with Pike at one time was partially an attempt to play with the jealousy theme; I had not written that type of story before and I wanted to see what would happen. If I had been a better writer, I think it would have been a better story. As it was, it was a learning experience. I often write just to try out a theme and see how I handle it and whether I like to write about the theme, etc. Unfortunately, there are times when my judgment goes awry and these experiments see the light of a fanzine and are hence inflicted on others. The point I am trying to make is that while there may be very deep motivations such as feminist anger in writing what we write with K/S, I also think there is a large element of writer's experimentation that is easy to neglect as a reason why the characters are whimpy in a story or not the way we see them.
From NE:
The idea of Spock turning out to be Saavik's father irritates me as much as the Kirk/David set up. If you like the idea, and did a story on it, fine. I just keep hearing vague rumors about it being incorporated into STIII, and this makes me want to go out and punch out something. I think the whole premise is trite, and again, I'm referring to it if it's used as a movie plot. It's a manipulation of the characters into a contrived situation that is beneath the concept of Star Trek. Why do they all have to end up being related to each other? Let Saavik be Spock's protégé, but don't make her his long lost daughter. Spare us from the likes of "Solar Days of Our Lives."
From DD:
'What, exactly, is meant by the Vulcan bond? Try to forget all the ideas in all the zines, and comb through the episodes and ST-TMP, the book version. A friend and I have spent hours, and hours, and ... All we've agreed on, is that we don't agree. What do the partners share? Thoughts? Emotions? Sexual arousal? A warm presence? A combination of these? Is the bond necessary for fertility? Can it be broken? Does the death of a partner demand the other's death? Would the mutual death be an option? Would there be a difference in the quality of bond when one partner is a non-telepath? Innumerable questions. From the little we've been told, I find it convenient to interpret the bond in different ways, in different story situations.
From DD:
Some of Vonda McIntyre's [novelization of The Wrath of Khan) about Spock mere good, but what happened to Kirk? She appears to have no comprehension of his character, and left him a cardboard puppet. I suppose that's better than making someone he wasn't, like so many writers do. In zine stories, I hope people will use the book only when it doesn't contradict the movie. To me, the book was a big disappointment, and a distinct contrast to Roddenberry's novelization and enrichment of ST-TMP. Last time, the book was better; this time, the movie.
From DD:
I, too, have wondered how we can write K/S stories after living through ST-WOK. I think Sharon's is the best idea,- ignore it. My favourite time to place stories has become after ST-TMP. During the five year mission, we know that Spock hasn't accepted himself, and that he'll run away. But once he has returned, he's working on being "the best of both worlds". "What a wealth of story lines we have from there on!
From DD:
Personally, I feel that if a story is good, it will stand on its own. A good illo, well-reproduced, might enhance such a story, but it is not necessary for the enjoyment of it. I have seen very good stories spoiled by poorly executed and/or poorly reproduced illos. I should add that, when browsing at cons, I've bought zines because of the illos, but when ordering by mail, it is the authors whose names I check. Since I am one of the editors of 2 different zines, one with, and one without illos, I'd be interested in others' opinions.
From AC:
I agree that Star Trek even just in general concept fits into the romantic mold, but too many KS writers slip too easily from Romance to romance. I have a strong cringe reflex when I'm reading a zine. Another problem I have with KS fanfic is that there are so few stories. Most authors (at least in the zines I've read) write vignettes. Vignettes are nice but after half a zine of them they begin to pall. [Where] there's no conflict--no story. Sometimes I wonder if it's because so many KSers have such a vehemently rose colored concept of KS. Jim loves loving Spock. Spock loves loving Jim. Spock is finally at peace with himself because he loves Jim. All their friends are thrilled that these people that they love love each other. The Federation has nothing against it, Starfleet thinks its swell, Vulcan positively beams on them. I've read some beautiful vignettes with this as the accepted background, but it takes the guts out of any attempt at a story. The best stories I've read in KS either don't accept all of the above as givens or are set in an alternate universe like the mirror one.
From AC:
I share your hope that private matters will be considered just that, but not your conviction that they will. [snipped] I would easily believe that in Star Trek's time there will be no law on the books against private matters [such as homosexuality] but attitudes won't change to keep pace with ideals.
From AC:
I was especially interested in your bondage theory connecting it with the writer's (and reader's too) concept of their sexual attractiveness . For me at least the idea of a round about wish-fulfillment seems valid. I like bondage/violence stories on occasion but I don't find any "feminist rage" in myself — at least not that it needs the genre as an outlet, bub "the idea of the author giving Kirk a shake and making him admit to knowing that his superficial relationships are inadequate rings true.
From AC:
[Addressing [BPG]]: This is a little awkward for me to try to explain, but I used to hate your illustrations. Hate is too strong a word but they did evoke a kind of general yuk reaction in me. Then one day I was reading a fanzine -- forget which one right now -- and realized that I liked the illos a lot and they were yours. To satisfy my curiosity I went back to the first ones I had seen to determine if you had improved or if I just hadn't been seeing what I was seeing now. I found that I liked them too. I do occasionally change my mind but it has never snuck up on me so before, in fact, I can't even reconstruct in my mind the reasons I had for not liking your work. That reads like rather a backhanded compliment, and I don't intend it to be. I meant this to be a thank you both for your work and for the unique experience with myself that it afforded me.
From MB:
I can remember the very day I saw the light. It happened one evening...

Two new acquaintances had asked me to join them on a radio Interview at the local State college. The interview would be on Star Trek and the phenomenon of fandom. One of the women, [K], had brought her LN recordings and some of his poetry to Intersperse throughout the Interview. [G] and myself completed the trio. We'd met briefly previously thru Karen and knew virtually nothing about one another except that we both knew [K].

The interview went innocently enough. [K] talked of Nimoy's accomplishments outside of ST, read some of his poetry, introduced his songs, while I, on the other hand, said virtually nothing. And then ... [G] brought up fanzines.

I was well aware of what a fanzine was. After all, I'd bought SPOCKANALIA way back when. [K] had shown me some of her more recent collections of KRAITH and SAHAJS but what [G] was speaking of ... PORNOGRAPHIC fanzines! I remembered something once called GRUP, but K/S? K&S fantasies where the two of them ... actually ... Even then while [G] is explaining to the general public what K/S is, my mouth Is hanging open. She's sitting across from me doing her best public speaking routine knowing [K] is in NO WAY In favor of this conversation and she looks across the microphone at me with my mouth hanging open.

Let us not forget that [G] doesn't know me personally. She thinks I'm a 'close' friend of [K's] and is postulating that I am most probably shocked entirely out of my mind with this idea, and all the while this episode Is happening I'm thinking: "My god. What an idea! This has NEVER occurred to me. Why didn't this ever occur to ME? THIS Is FANTASTIC. How am I going to get my hands on a zine like that. Does she know me well enough to lend out a prize like that to a mild acquaintance? All the while this shocked look is on my face, [G]is thinking that I'm horrified she's even discussing this for public radio, while all the time I'm scheming on how I'm going to get a copy.


I'd obviously missed out on a major portion of fandom, and altho I never gave up loving ST, my involvement in fandom waned about 1970. It wasn't until about the time the new movie was scheduled for release that my niece [N] and I found out that we were both avid ST fans and my Interest in the world of ST fandom was again peaked. Obviously a lot can happen In that period of time, and It apparently did... to Kirk and Spock.

After the interview I mentioned to [G] that I'd like to see these zines. She wasn't convinced I was the type. [G] and I never really spoke to one another until some time later, and altho [K] was doing an excellent job of updating my lag in fanzine publications, she was definitely NOT into K/S. I can't quite place how we came about our first K/S zine. We'd acquired a zine list and SASE'd and sent for something that sounded like what [G] had been talking about. Perusing the flier for NIGHTVISIONS...

"This is it, [N]", says I.

"This is WHAT?" says she.

"This is that K/S stuff [G] was talking about. You know that erotica that has Kirk and Spock 'doing it' -- to each other?"

"Oh, yeah, THAT stuff," says she.

I sent out posthaste and not long afterwards received our first copy of NIGHTVISIONS. Now.. I'm no prude, but those [Gayle F] illos were HEAVY-DUTY. Know what I mean? I was pretty shocked. Not in a bad way, but shocked. I'd open a page and shut the book quickly casting furtive glances about the room. Peek in again, and shut the book ... all the silly stuff. But each time I'd open the book and look again ...and again. I was stuck.


It was all downhill from there. I can't remember the second zine of the K/S kind we read. It may not have been until I met up with [G] again in line to see STAR WARS. She finally believed we could be corrupted. After all, we'd read NIGHTVISIONS and loved it. She promptly turned us on to THRUST and of course, ALTERNATIVE. It was fabulous. [G] had a varied assortment of goodies to pass our way, and along with it a beautiful friendship developed as well. (Now we must have appeared like a bunch of kids in a candy shop to her. Mmmm. Lovely imagery.).

I think we've all loved every minute of it and I personally would trade the whole experience for only one thing-- a video of the Desert Heat series in living color. I think that would keep me for the rest of eternity. I could manage 150 years alone on a planet with that one.
From MB:
I've changed my mind. Contrary to what I said previously I haven't said sufficient about the movie. When I sat down to the movie I really enjoyed myself up to the end. The end was supposed to hurt. It was one of the best hurt scenes ever written worthy of inclusion in SUN AND SHADOW, BUT there wasn't quite enough comfort. Well, nothing is perfect. An ending like that usually inspires another zine writer to write her/his own story with a little more comfort added to make up for the lack.

So. Why all the depression over this story? Because it is so visual. We're actually seeing a part of our reality come to life, so to speak. In a zine story we just deal with the hurt up to the point we as the reader wish to and turn to another story. It was a little more difficult to turn to another movie with that death scene so vivid in our minds.

I felt that one of the aspects that made the death scene so vivid was that from the talk in fandom it also represented a possible end to fanzine writing. Movies can come and go, but zine writing is what has really kept ST alive all these years. I felt that without that, the studios could make all the movies they wanted and never fill the void.

Don't get me wrong. I've gone thru the depression too. In a short period of three days 'the group' saw the movie five times, and at the end of that three days...well, as Kirk said, Not those three days." I hope we're all getting over this depression tho. I have a difficult time with those who feel we'll be cheated if Spock returns. If I were to look really closely at how manipulative the movie is I think I would be able to understand the feeling of being cheated, but I like to think of TWOK as another zine story, and I've turned the page. As a reader I sit here and demand that fandom get up off their imaginations and DO something about the films discrepancies.
From MB:
I enjoy the idea that the K/S relationship is devoid of most of the same sex relationship hang ups of today. I think it's another "hope of the future" idea that I hope will apply to all relationships, same sex or otherwise, and I think it helps to foster the idea that relationships are relationships between two people who love. I'd like to think that the "I'd have never thought to do it with another MAN" line would be practically non-existent. One loves whom they love. This is not to say that this 'will be so'. I like the freedom of that reality and like to read it that way. If the current social mores were intolerant of anything it might more likely be inter-species relationships. Imagine when we finally make peace with the Klingons--can you imagine the stares as the first Terran makes a Klingon their "significant other". I think our species will always be going thru this process. We just have to look ahead and see what and who will be going thru it in the future. Of course by this time even inter-species relationships will be more common, but only familiar by a few decades and most probably there will always be the then current scapegoat.
From MB:
Ranking STWOK up with "City on the Edge..." is as bad as some of the bad lip the movie has taken. I think the description that STWOK is Bennett and Meyer's fanzine is a good description. Letting ourselves get any more involved in it IS ALLOWING the studio to manipulate us. I know we haven't had anything else to talk in a few years, but... well, let's talk fanzines. What's your latest favorite?
From LDB:
I am a fairly new Trekker, since I only became aware of fandom in January 1981. I did enjoy the series when it was first on TV, but after it was cancelled, I thought that was it!! Little did I know what a fabulous world of reading and conventions awaited me. From the moment I finished my first zine- -- GALACTIC DISCOURSE 3-- I've been hooked on zines... can't get enough!! How I envy those people who have zines waiting to be read! I devour mine as soon as they arrive and find myself going "crazy" waiting for more! The first K/S stories I ever read happened to be "Shelter" and "Poses" by Leslie Fish in a British reprint zine called K/S RELAY. I bought it out of curiosity not under standing what was meant by K/S! But I loved it so much I began looking for more... and more... and more.... So what happens when you can't find enough zines to satisfy your craving? Or they don't come out often enough? Then you probably find your self—like me—becoming a fanzine editor of not one but TWO fanzines!! [Commercial break!] [descriptions of Twin Destiny and TREKworld]
From LDB:
I definitely did enjoy the movie—not the ending, of course! It has taken me awhile to get it in its proper perspective and I wouldn't rate it as the best TREK I've ever seen... no other aired TREK ever killed off a major character without his return at the end!! From the moment Kirk says, "How we deal with death is at least as important as how we deal with life," (to me that is the whole theme of the movie). I knew Spock was going to die! I did enjoy the battle of wits between Kirk and Khan. I cheered along with everyone else, so it was not constant misery, thank goodness. But the moment Spock leaves his science console on the bridge, I could tell what was coming. It was obvious, I guess, but that didn't stop the tears!! I have sat through it five times at the theater and the death scene still makes me miserable!! Silly, huh? Can't help it, though, I get so involved in what's happening! Since I do intend to buy the video tape, I guess I had better buy several boxes of kleenex too!! Frankly, I see no reason for a character to die — especially Spock or Kirk. ST is my pleasure — my escape for a time from a too routine, realis tic world. I don't need to read about death in my fiction, it's all too prevalent in the newspaper! Death stories are just another theme, but one I avoid constantly. There have been a couple of well-written death stories I have managed to read completely, but they were exceptions.
From LDB:
I shall be very interested in seeing the next "pro" novel. With Spock's (temporary) death will the writer's for Pocket Books conveniently "forget" Spock or regress their stories in time just as if ST-TWOK never happened?? I haven't heard anything about any new ST books lately which seems unusual with Christmas coming up... but I certainly hope there are more novels to come. Like most fans I'm not too thrilled with the pro-novels—fanzines are the BEST by far!! — but one can always HOPE!
From LDB:
Someone asked GR [at Roddenberry's appearance in Dayton, Ohio at the Region V Head Star Conference on November 5] if Spock was going to be in ST III, and his comment (which confounded me, I must admit! ) was "I'm keeping mum about that." Since I had previously read a newspaper announcement saying that GR had said Spock would be in ST III, I am now utterly confused!!! I don't know if I can stand another round of "will he or won't he." I cringe at the thought! But it always seems we fans are the very last to know what's actually happening!!

Issue 4

K/S & K.S. (Kindred Spirits) 4 has a cover by LB.

There are 20 tribs: LB, AC , DD, NE, BPG (Ad Astra #3), CH, BL, KS, TG, CD, SF, BH, SBS, RKL, CAT, DVH, JG, SW, T'R, and WR.


  1. ^ This zine was likely Organia #2, which did not get off the ground due to a falling out between BL and JG. This survey was is likely 1984 Kirk/Spock Survey‎ by JG and DL, and some of its results were printed in Not Tonight, Spock! #11 in November 1985.