Southern Enclave/Issues 01-10

Issues 01-10 · Issues 11-20 · Issues 21-30 · Issues 31-40 · Issues 41-54

Issue 1 (September 1983)

cover of issue #1

• it is online here
• contains 28 pages
• "Reviewing the Fleet" (pro book review): "Lando Calrissian and the Mindharp of Sharu"
• a word puzzle by Lynda Vandiver
• this issue has many, many fan reviews of Return of the Jedi
• from the editorial:

  Many of you have written to ask, "What the heck does 'Southern Enclave' mean?? It ain't part of the SW universe!" Well, we feel that it is, by extension, just as fandom itself is an extension of the SW universe. The current mythos has it that the Old Jedi were organized in Enclaves and at their height of power probably had more than one enclave per planet. Alderaan in particular probably had several, which we think many have included two major enclaves -- one in the northern hemisphere and one in the temperate climate of the south. In our extension SW universe, the Southern Enclave was a major center of philosophy and communication... and that's what we hope you'll feel about SE, that you will use it as a voice for your thoughts about SW and fandom and to communication with fellow fans. SE doesn't intend to censor anything you might have to say, unless it is the majority opinion of the SE staff that what you are saying is patently offensive, obscene, or extremely hurtful to someone's reputation in fandom... SE doesn't want to fall into the letter-war trap that has afflicted other letterzines in various other fandoms, including SW fandom. Let's try to keep a bit of Trek philosophy here, that of the IDIC, and learn to enjoy and grow in our respective differences and talents, and to remember that everyone's point of view is just as dear to her as yours is to you.

• a fan asks:

  It's good to see someone planning to take up where JW's leaving off. I agree, such a letterzine is needed. It's too bad the schedule can't be more frequent. My Big Question for the first issue is, what will happen to SW fandom now that the first trilogy's finished and Lucas is making noises about retiring the whole idea? He may change his mind after a couple or three years' break (I hope but if he doesn't, what then? Is the SW idea strong enough to keep the fandom going" just. as Trek fandom went on long after the program died? There's certainly enough material to work with going backwards and forwards from the trilogy if people are interested. And if it does keep going, is there even a remote danger of it falling into the pit of K/S-type material that seems to have trapped so much of Trek fandom?

• a fan comments on the positivity of many new Star Wars and Harrison Ford zines being planned and published and writes:

  On the negative side, I've heard from one editor that locs seem to be falling off, which would indicate a lack of enthusiasm in fandom (unless it's simply a temporary phenomenon caused by "zine overload" after MediaWest Con and lack of time to get locs written on zines bought there or received around that time?). And, more disturbing, I've heard that a rather well-known zine overdue for an issue is overdue because the editor didn't get enough material to print. I hope this case is a fluke, the lack of material being caused by factors other than loss of interest in the SN universe.

Issue 2 (December 1983)

cover of issue #2

• it is online here
• contains 42 pages
• art by Danaline Bryant and Cheree Cargill
• a puzzle by Linda Vandiver
• most of the letters are comments about the movie: its quality, the "redemption" of Darth Vader, Luke and Leia as siblings, Han's role as a "hero"
• "The Other Chemistry" (article) by Melody Corbett, concerns allegory and symbolism in the referenced Joseph Campbell's "Hero With a Thousand Faces" as well as other books on mythology.
• a fan writes:

  I think you should keep the name SOUTHERN ENCLAVE if that's what you feel comfortable with. You run the risk in future issues of people asking you over and over what it means (newcomers) but it's your choice. I know what it was when I first heard it. You might do some research and find out exactly where the word "enclave" first appeared. I remember it from Maggie Nowakowska's Thousand-World stories but I could be attributing wrongly. What do you refer to in your opening remarks to "the current mythos"? Everyone has their own mythos (most blown away by RETURN). (Editor's note: by "current mythos", I had in mind general things that most people assume, which usually have their origin in obscure facts in the "canon" and expounded upon in various zines. I think I got "enclave" from Maggie's stories.) From what I've seen over the last year in letters, a major problem is exactly what do you consider the Canon and what is not. Some people include Daley among the Canon and when another writer contradicts what is in Daley then they are "wrong", and told so voraciously. (Sarlaccs, anyone?} You have to be careful about making a definitive statement because others may not consider your basis To me, what George Lucas put on the screen is the only true story. I have heard several people saying that his version is "wrong! WRONG!" and I shake my head. It was his universe from the start, folks, and if he wants to end it this way, I'll go along with it. Just as I'll go along with your universe's ending which ends Luke, Han and the Sarlacc all making out in the desert... if you can make me believe it.

• a fan writes of Star Wars' future now that the trilogy of movies has been made:

  I think there is room in fandom for all sorts of stories and all outlooks. Fandom helps the sf universes to stay alive and I think Star Trek has well proven this over and over for the past 17 years. ST will be alive and breathing long after SW's if SW fandom does not expand in all areas and is restricted in any form. K/S is the ultimate, or one of the ultimate, romantic and relationship-bound concepts in ST. In the SW universe, the most romantic and relationship-bound concept is the Han and Leia union. Why set limits to that? But then again, although it seems to be a predominant theme in SW, it is not the only theme in SW and I get annoyed with it being so predominant at times. How about a good thorough Luke-oriented zine, more Luke stories than Han? Why not? Because more people are interested in relationship stories than any other type (or at least, relationship emphasis to an sf storyline), as well as with the character who is expanded on with the romantic angle (in this case, Solo even double or thrice over Leia, Han being the female heartthrob).

• a fan writes:

  On [Bev C's] letter: "Love" is as ambiguous a word as "evil"— gee, maybe we'll get into as complex a discussion on this issue—and what is called "love" is not necessarily always positive. The 'love to effect the 'salvation' of Darth Vader"? My, my; I've heard of the love of a good woman having a redemptive effect, but isn't this going a bit far, even for us H/L fen? Sorry... (For those of you out there who are a bit slow, the above is a joke. J*O*K*E, you know.) And I thought fandom gave up equating Luke with Jesus when the Duncans quit publishing AGAINST THE SITH.

• a fan writes:

  How about General Veers? If the Praetorian Guard did it in Rome, why couldn't the Imperial Army/Marines elect the new Emperor in SW? Veers would demolish the rebel resistance in short order! Now, if we can just get Susan Matthews away from Blake's 7 fiction and back writing about Imperial military where she belongs, maybe we could get a story about THAT.

• a fan asks about a bit of fanon:

  what do we know about Corell? ... there is actually nothing stated in the movies that there is even a planet named Corell—all Han ever says is that the Falcon could outrun the "big Corellian ships". For all we know, that may be a class of space cruiser. He never calls himself a Corellian or states that that's his home planet. Does anyone know where this got started, that everyone takes it for granted that Han is a native Corellian?

• a fan states:

  I don't think SW fandom is going to die simply because no new "canon" is being produced. There are plenty of fandoms around defunct TV shows, and there are lots of Sherlock Holmes fans even though ft. Conan Doyle has been dead for many, many years. The main criterion is whether the material is rich enough to sustain interest, and SW definitely is rich in detail and mystery. And the pitfalls of a "K/S" sort of phenomenon have nothing to do with stagnation; in Star Trek fandom, the K/S element remains strong despite the new movies.

• a fan has this idea:

  if Lucas definitely decides not to make those other six movies, we should all write to him and demand to know the rest of the plot, perhaps as a set of stories published in a book. It's only fair, after all.

• a fan is happy the movie trilogy is completed as it gives her freedom:

  ... the future of SW fandom--I don't know about anyone else, but I'm finding a heady sense of freedom in the knowledge that I can write whatever future I like for Skywalker s Co. without the next movie bringing my little house of cards crashing down in just three short years. It will be at least ten years before we see Episode #7—if ever, with the plethora of questions the middle trilogy left unanswered, my enthusiasm isn't dampened—far from it!

• a fan speculates:

  I agree with [Laura V] that the Luke/Leia twist in ROTJ seemed, contrived (as did Vader/Anakin's redemption, but I covered that in my first LoC). When I got out of the theater and started think seem to me that GL woke up one day and said to himself, "Well, I don't want Leia to marry the primary hero (Luke), I want her to marry the secondary hero (Han—and why did he want that? What does this imply for the third trilogy?). But I've got to have a reason, because Luke is the primary hero and everyone will expect him to get the girl... I know, I'll make her Of course, none of the above should be taken to mean that I plan to go in my own future writings with any of the ideas I have advanced. Like GL, I know where I'm going, and I know who's going with screen! Nonetheless, I throw these out for the sake of argument and possible inspiration--maybe some author out there can write a story that will end up in OUTLANDS!

• another fan writes:

  No doubt, an army of Mary Sue's will arise to save Luke from loneliness/celibacy/darkness or whatever awaits him. I am hoping someone will write a long, realistic "new love for Luke" story with a convincing build-up before the bedding and wedding.

• a fan writes:

  Regarding Harrison Ford's sadly dwarfed role in ROTJ, I can only express a Hanfan's disappointment and savor what few really good scenes Harrison had.

• a fan writes about fan legitimacy and attitudes toward fanfiction:

  I'd like to address something that happened to me recently. A very close friend of mine gave me a verbal slap in the face. She told me that anybody who writes media fan fiction, and by extension, anyone who reads fan fiction, is nothing short of a moron... if a person has the ability to write, they should be using that talent to write professionally. And not wasting their time and money on fannish pursuits. I tried to explain that, to many people, fandom is a hobby and costs money just like any other hobby. I also explained that many, many people enjoy writing but they only enjoy writing fiction can't be published professionally --no matter how good the writing is. My friend" s reply to this was that those people who are wasting their time writing this "media garbage" should try to write something original or stop writing all together.... Gee, I thought that when I sat down to write a media story (oh, horrors'.) that It was original. I'm certainly not copying it out of someone else's book so if it's not original, what is it? Personally, I find it extremely insulting to be thought illiterate simply because I like Star Trek and Stars Wars! I've been reading mainstream science fiction since I was six years old--and that's eight years before I even discovered that Star Trek existed. In fact, I read constantly, and not just science fiction. And media fandom has been the catalyst that started me writing—something I always had the desire to do but never had the guts to start. The encouragement of a few good fen has made all the difference to me. I'd really like to know what the other fen think of this shoddy treatment- I can handle being regarded as a nut. I really can't handle someone accusing me of illiteracy!

• a fan writes:

  I remember reading somewhere that the Star Wars films were to help finance Skywalker Ranch. I was under the impression that Skywalker Ranch would be a place where talented minds could work without having to compromise their creativity to studio executives. I think it's ironic that Lucas compromised his film to achieve this end. I could understand how people who didn't believe that Vader was Luke's father or that he was capable of being redeemed in the end, might have absolutely hated the film, but since I did believe it, the disappointment lies in its presentation. Well, as Mr. Scott once said, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." Any- one for STAR TREK III?

Issue 3 (March 1984)

cover of issue #3

• it is online here
• contains 44 pages
• a fan points out that Han as a Corellian is not fanon, but from the novelization of Star Wars
• "In Conversation with Michael Carter" by Shaun Dawkins and Michael Stubbington ("British artist Michael Carter who is responsible for the intriguing Bib Fortuna, a character whose grating Huttese tones and effortless blending into the court of Jabba has presented us with a credible and eminently watchable alien.")
• What's Black and White and Read All Over: The Symbolism of Black and White in Star Wars by Terri Black (reprinted in issue #21)
• Questions: A Soliloquy by Jean L. Stevenson
• word find by Lynda Vandiver
• "Reviewing the Fleet," a review of the pro book "Lando Calrissian and the Flamewind of Oseon"
• a fan writes:

  If you like the way ROTJ turned out and can write well about it, if you can explain any of the niggles about it that bothered me, more power to you! Send it to me for OUTLANDS CHRONICLES! You fish on your side of The Saga, I'll fish on mine, and we can leave the middle to GL. What I was trying to say in my first LOC and apparently didn't get across to everyone was that ANH and TESB said certain things to me which they didn't say to others, or which were interpreted differently by others than by me. And that's fine, we don't all have to convert to the GL Version, nor do we have to not convert to it. Anyone who can write her (or his) Universe convincingly has a right to do just that. If, like me, you just can't get comfortable with ROTJ, you can still write What-Ifs, or what amounts to What-Ifs (in my case. What If Vader and Skywalker Sr. were two different people, and What If Luke and Leia are not and never have been sibs, and What If Han was not in love with Leia?). But if you can, do.

• a fan writes a letter in response, and sympathy, to person telling a fan that fannish activity was a waste of time:

  Probably nearly every one of us...all the creators of dreams, whether we are fortunate enough to have discovered fandom and found placement for our creations, whether they are shared with just a select few friends, or whether they languish all our lives at the bottom of desk drawers and storage chests—have suffered the likes of the petulant, patently mean-spirited charges leveled at you by your supposed and quite angry 'friend.' Often, it is our parents or elder siblings who direct the thinly veiled charge at us that we are 'wasting' our talents...or perhaps time...by producing 'media garbage' or "'amateur trash.' This whole crowd of detractors is excellent at coming up with a forest of denigrating and derogatory terms which they employ freely to put down our modest enjoyments. Perhaps they do it out of misguided notions of love, perhaps from jealousy. Whatever their motives, to hell with them and all their ilk, but most especially, to a special perdition with their ignorant opinions! Whatever their aims and ambitions—whatever your own— I would urge you to ignore their puny small-minded criticisms. Consider the source of all such worthless diatribes and see it for the little-souled thing that it is.

• a fan writes:

  I agree 100% with your comments on the presumed "inferiority" of media fans! Fandom is what got me writing again, too, after about a ten-year gap (during which, no doubt, the literary world rejoiced...). Most of us will never make our media writing anything but a wonderful and satisfying . hobby; if we are looking for a way to make a living, we'll have to venture outside the media fiction framework. But for those who want to do so, writing and reading media fiction should not be a stigma! After all, who do all these "pro" SF/Fantasy writers think they are selling their stuff to? People who never read or write anything else? Don't bite the appendage that feeds you!

• a fan comments on the "legitimacy" of fannish interests:

  I go through about thirty books (written by "paid professionals") a year, but since discovering media fanfic last summer, I find I'm more excited by the arrival of a new zine than by a trip to the bookstore. This doesn't mean I've burned my library card,.. But what I find in zines is often more imaginative, thought-provoking and emotionally satisfying than what I've found in many pro-written novels. I'm happy for those fan authors who have turned pro and are being paid for their work— everyone should strive to get what they want in life—but I have great respect and admiration for those writers who sweat and struggle over a piece of work they'll never be paid for—just because they love the subject they're writing about. High status and Big Bucks are nice, but I have a higher regard for anyone, pro or unpaid, who creates for the simple joy of creating.

• a fan writes:

  I'm a real sucker for posters (which I have no wall space for...maybe someday I'll rent a warehouse and display them all) and T-shirts (which at least have some function'.). Too bad there isn't more 'adult' SW merchandise. I have a friend who has some dandy ideas; but somehow I don't think George Lucas would approve of Han Solo's smiling visage on certain items of feminine intimate apparel... or a particular item of personal gratification in the shape of Darth Vader!

• a fan chides others:

  I also agree with the last part of your letter. All this sour grapes from fans who didn't like the way George ended HIS story really irritates me. If you guys want to run a universe, invent your own!... Bravo for your comments on the influence of SW fans by staying with the Saga: I think SW fans CAN influence George Lucas; in fact I think they already HAVE—and more profoundly than most of them realize. Let's not see them influence the continuation of the Saga in films negatively, though, by whining and complaining that things did not work out the way THEY, wanted them to. If those of us who have been touched by the Saga and influenced by our activities in fandom continue to promote SW, that sends a message to George Lucas. Unfortunately, the bitter and negative fans also send a message to George—but not the same message. Give the guy a break: He's busted his ass (oops! sorry, Lucasfilm guidelines:) his behind to bring us the first three films; if we want to see the next three, it's going to take more of an incentive than just money. I think it's going to take some understanding and enthusiasm and support. That's the message I'd like to see SW fandom send to George Lucas.

• a fan writes:

  I LOVE SOUTHERN ENCLAVE! I love your format, and the diversity of opinion, and the sheer size of the thing. Considering I first read.my first letterzine about six months ago, I have really gone gung-ho on these things. I guess when you get into zines, you get into letter zines, too! One of the things I love best about cons is the chance to meet people who share my interest in SW and SF, and to be able to exchange ideas and opinions with them. Well, reading SE is sort of like a mini-con of its own—and a hell of a lot cheaper.

• a thumbs up for smut, just not from her pen:

  Considering my continual flirtation with smut, I don't think I'd be the person to do these stories (they'd never get past the guidelines), but I'd sure like to see them done.

• a fan writes about the perceived lack of LoCs to fiction zines:

  I have a couple of ideas about why LoC's are rarer these days than they used to be. 1) Many zines are so long (and I'm guilty here) that commenting adequately is a formidable task, especially when your time is limited. 2) Media fandom is more stratified than it used to be, and some fans may be intimidated by the thought of writing to a 'BNF', let alone criticizing her, and editors and writers tend to become de facto BNF's simply because of exposure. 3) There seems to be an increasing number of media fans who don't know of the origins of media fandom in SF fandom and aren't familiar with the traditions and expectations we took from SF—such as the important of LoCs. In sf fandom, a LoC will frequently get you a contributor's copy of the fanzine. 4) Less palatably, and perhaps related to (3), there may be a drift toward passivity in media fandom: that is, toward the general fan as a mere consumer of the creative products of others. And consumers don't usually comment on the products they consume. (Also, with the loss of the sense of importance of LoC's comes a loss of the SF fannish assumption that a LoC can be a creative work.) Perhaps this drift is a general one in fandom, not just in fanzines. For instance, I've seen filking change from a group endeavor ten or eleven years ago to a performance, in which one member of the group performs while the others passively listen; even if every member of the group performs, they do so individually. Letters of comment aren't supposed to elicit a response in return; they were supposed to be the reader's response to a fanzine—her participation in the zine, as it were—and the editor's response, if there is one, is in the form of interjected comments when the LoC's are printed. In a sense, the LoC is a letter to the editor, but unlike either that kind of letter or a personal letter, it's also a letter to all the other readers of the zine. Editors don't answer LoC's personally for practical . reasons. Assuming SKYWALKER is typical, a zine gets about 20 to 30 LoC's per issue, all but a few of them long and detailed. If the editor replied to all of them, she wouldn't have time to do anything else, especially if any of the replies turned into a correspondence. That's why letterzines are useful as [Sally S] pointed out: they provide a forum for discussion that genzine lettercols can't and never were intended to.

• a fan questions canon:

  It strikes me a little odd that we don't have a common definition yet of canon. Maybe we can hash this out: I'd like to start the discussion. I've been leading SW letterzines for a good long time and have always been under the impression that the movies were absolute canon, and the novelizations, script versions, etc. were considered a sort of secondary canon, acceptable in all cases where they did not conflict with the movies, I know a lot of people aren't fond of Glut's and Kahn's novelizations (myself, I loathe Glut's!. But it's the style and presentation we don't like. The material is still there. As for Daley, my feeling would be that his background for Han can be useful for the fan writer if she likes it, but it isn't canon. I'd like to see discussion on the canonicity of the radio shows—I'm not sure how I would classify them.

• a fan comments on some news in the technology world:

  By the way, if there's anyone who hasn't heard by now, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled 5 to 4 on January 17, 1984 that home use of VCRs is legal and does not violate the copyright laws. This does not give sanction to mass production of tapes for sale or even for copying tapes to trade; it just says that taping movies off TV for your own watching at a later date is okay. But be assured that the lobbyists for the various studios are before Congress right now asking for revisions of the copyright laws that would change that. However, what the outcome will probably be, if Congress approves the changes, is that royalties would be added to VCRs and tapes, about $100 per VCR and about $1.00 per tape, I believe.

Issue 4 (June 1984)

cover of issue #4

• online here
• contains 60 pages
• this issue contains D'Alliance Open Letter, see that page
• has small art by Cheri Tripp, Danaline Bryant, Jeanine Hennig, Cheree Cargill, and Carol Peters
• Some Revolutionary Thoughts by Sandra Necchi (article)
• Now You're Getting Nasty, or Will the Real Obi-Wan Kenobi Please Stand Up? by Marcia Brin (article) ("The most obvious problem is Obi-Wan Kenobi. What happened to the good old Ben? There is something more than a bit unlikable about the person we see in this film.")
• "Take it Easy, Kid, It's Only a Movie" is by the editor who proceeds to ask for civility. ("It's been a whole year now since ROTJ premiered. We've all made our feelings on the subject known, whether we absolutely love it or absolutely hate it. We are all entitled to our own opinions and sharing those opinions is what SOUTHERN ENCLAVE is all about. However, in the heat of debate over our respective opinions, ugliness has started to rear its head..." .)
• Return of the Hero's Hero by Jean L. Stevenson (article)
• "World Premiere of the Jedi" by Sally Smith
• a review of Outlands Chronicles #1, see that page
• an enraged fan named Lucy N. writes:

  I have heard rumors of a new movement afoot in 'Star Wars' fandom that has me very concerned. It seems there is a group of people trying to force all fans to follow their particular line on the development of the characters. In fact, they seem to be downright obsessive about it. I will agree that Harrison Ford is an attractive man and that the character of Han Solo was fun to watch but these fans are so single-minded that they are unable to see past that actor/character. They are so blind that they apparently don't understand the story. How they ever got the idea that Han was the central character is beyond my ability to understand. If any of them ever checked the title page of the novelization of the first movie they could see right there that these stories are from the 'Adventures of Luke Skywalker', not Han Solo! [snipped...] Even more disturbing than these factual errors is what the actions of these obsessive people is causing. One of the best things about any fandom like Star Wars is the creativity that it stimulates in people who might otherwise have never tried writing, drawing, and producing a small-press magazine, or fanzine. These Ford/Solo fanatics are, from what I have heard, putting pressure on other fanzine editors to follow their own extremely narrow viewpoint in putting those fanzines together. This is wrong! These people have no right to stifle other creative minds this way. They descend to being merely bullies by doing so. This is contemptible. All of the characters of the SW universe have worth and all deserve to be explored. The general run of SW fandom has something to answer for in this, too. Bullies can only get away with such tactics if you let them. Bullies are the biggest cowards in the world. The only way to deal with them is to stand up to them. They don't have the right to decide how every fanzine in this country should be run. Show them a united front against their foolish behavior and they'll crumple. They are obviously a bunch of adolescents, who, like the character they are so obsessed vith, have a lot of growing up to do. Don't allow them to splinter fandom. Eventually they'll destroy it. One other point—while I am sure the Han Solo who existed for most of the 3 movies would have literally basked in all this slavish devotion, the Han at the end of "Jedi" would have been completely oblivious to them. As for Harrison Ford, from what I've seen and read about him, he wouldn't like all this fuss, either. Far from being flattered, I'd be willing to bet he'd develop a case of terminal embarrassment. I do not fear these people. They are not worthy of fear. As long as they continue to be so irrational there is no good reason to take them seriously. I will give them all the attention they deserve—none.

• the editor of Southern Enclave responds to the above letter by Sally N.:

  This letter caused me a good bit of consternation, first of all trying to decide whether I should print it or not; but then I decided to stand by SE's stated "open forum" policy. I won't comment on her allegations regarding wrongdoing by some segments of fandom. I don't know if [Ms. N] has had some unfortunate incident or if she is the victim of vicious gossip. I tend to suspect the latter. However, I do want to comment on her statement that a group of fans are trying to force zine editors to print only their viewpoint. I have been in fandom for 13 years, most of that time involved in some sort of fan publishing and most of it as an editor. Not once in that entire time has any group or individual approached me or attempted to coerce me into printing only their viewpoint. I don't believe I have ever heard any other editor mention this problem either. I think we would all be most interested in hearing from anyone who has. If this is going on in fandom, it needs to be exposed, and if it's just gossip, it needs to end right now.

• a fan comments on choosing sides:

  The group of fans who some of us understandably refer to as the "Church of Ford" would have us believe that George Lucas is as much in love with Han Solo/ Harrison Ford as they are, and— the inevitable corollary—that he hates Luke Skywalker as much as they do. They have taken the SW saga and distorted so many basic elements in it to make the story "fit* into the mold they want it to be. They have twisted and chopped and selected and dismissed the story beyond recognition, so that their version of what we saw on screen bears almost no resemblence to what actually went on screen and what George himself created. They have become so obsessed with one character/actor that he is all they see behind everything in the SW story. I can't think of a similar instance where devotion to a character/actor has been taken to such an extreme so that the most basic concepts in the story itself are denied. I certainly do not include the more objective Han fans who may not be particularly interested in the character of Luke. I was one once (before JEDI). Now I love both of them. I refer to a small group who have a bizarre insecurity about the character they love, for they seem to feel Han has no value as Lucas presents him, that he simply has to be the central hero and, of course, a Jedi. Oh, yes, but then they use the excuse that Lucas himself sees things as they do and that he's been playing a hoax on all of us. Actually, their premises are great for alternate story ideas but as "canon"? Can someone explain this phenomenon to me? Why have they lost all their objectivity? It's clear that their assertions about the saga are based solely on this worship of Solo/Pord. It's the most bizarre thing I've ever run across in any fandom and I've been a fan for 11 years.

• another fan comments:

  [You can mention] Lucas' name all you want to add authority to your unproven assertions but it changes nothing. You can claim that you're not tearing down one character to upgrade another, but tt's clear to me that that's what you're doing. You may want to believe desperately that Lucas has indeed shown Luke to be a worm, but, again, your desire changes nothing. And yes, Han is^ the most mysterious character, in that we know little about him. Instead of putting some great weight on this fact, it's much easier to see that apparently Lucas doesn't find him important enough to show us his past as much as Luke or Leia.

• another fan weighs in on who the hero of Star Wars is and of character bashing:

  [I feel] compelled to write anyway to express my shock and dismay at the amount of anti-Luke sentiment that seems to be present among "fans" of star wars. There are so many fanzines and stories devoted to Han Solo, and Luke is often either not mentioned at all, is a very secondary character, or is portrayed as a weak, helpless, unstable, naive farm-boy with no potential for ever growing up. Han Solo comes across in most stories and comments as the Force's gift to the Galaxy. I would be happy to just sit back quietly and let others have their fun. After all, I like Han Solo, too. He's not my favorite character, but he's handsome and courageous, and he's always good for a laugh in a tense situation. What bothers me, and what I can't ignore, is that many people are not content to just portray Han Solo as the ultimate hero, perfect man, and near-god; they degrade and ridicule the character of Luke Skywalker at the same time. This is unfair and unnecessary.

• another fan states what she thinks is obvious:

  Any number of people are jumping up and down because some of us have criticized Luke in this film. Well, we didn't write the film; George Lucas did. We didn't put the events on the screen; George Lucas did. We didn't do ROTJ in such a way as to raise the issues of bigotry, responsibility, etc.; George Lucas did. It's like killing the messenger for delivering bad news. This film is neither what I expected nor what I wanted. I expected the failures of TESB to be Luke's coming of age, that he would mature into the hero everyone—myself included— expected him to be, that, as much as I wanted Han rescued, Luke would, as the TESB novelization states clearly, return to Dagobah to admit his failures and continue his training. I wanted a film that would make everyone happy, that would leave enough openings for zines and the like to continue (well, that much I got: this film has certainly left openings!). Lucas gave me neither, and while I'm not happy with it, I cannot deny what is there.

• a fan comments on sharing fanon:

  There's been some talk in fandom about people 'lifting" certain terms from other writers, as if those writers had a copyright on the word: Hate to tell you, folks, but we be fine ones to talk of 'lifting-: If this rule applied, then there'd be NO SW zines. As an example—and I'm not in any way swinging the cudgel at Maggie Nowakowska, since she's made no comments about this—is the word "enclave." It is NOT stealing to use a word that someone else happens to use, as well! Unfortunately, some people have to try and smudge other's reputations as honest persons over such trivia as this! C'mon, folks...as I said earlier, if we couldn't use the same words for some things, then pretty soon—say a few centuries back--people would have run out of words to write WITH. Not to mention that 'Corellian' would be banned, as would 'Jedi' and 'Princess'.

• a fan doubts fans' influence:

  You don't really believe that our complaints about JEDI will influence Lucas in any way about his future plans for SW, do you? He'll do whatever he damn well pleases, and I doubt he cares about what a few fans think. The mundanes give him plenty of profit just by themselves.

• a fan finds the Ewoks troublesome for a different reason than the usual complaints:

  Here is a can of worms: I found the Ewoks and their civilization (and the backhanded condescension of their presentation) somewhat racist on Lucas' part. On the recent PBS special, Lucas said that the Ewoks originated from an idea he had for a Vietnam film centered around the concept of a "weak,* "primitive" people beating a mighty modern power. Gee. How enlightened of Lucas to replace the Vietnamese people with cuddly, carnivorous teddy bears. The Third World was portrayed in a very prejudiced way in RAIDERS as well. But that's nothing new in American films.

• A fan comments fallibility and TPTB:

  ...it's Lucas' saga and people say 'he's wrong, that's not how it should be.* For God's sake, the man CREATED the saga! How can he be WRONG?

• a fan admits to some piracy:

  I appreciated [your explanation in the last issue explaining] the Supreme court's position on VCRs, but I had been referring only to audio tapes and theatrical movies. I don't own a VCR. What I do is smuggle a tape recorder into the theater, which is much more risky since you have to evade the ushers who threaten to confiscate your equipment. The VCR people have it easy; they can commit crimes in the privacy of their own homes.

• a fan speculates on another factor in the perception of fewer LoCs for fanzines:

  It seems like once upon a time zines came out more frequently—a given zine would be on a bimonthly or quarterly basis. But with rising expectations of quality, and the boom in mega-zines of up to 500 pages or more, an editor can't get her zine out that quickly. The result is that when you see your own LoC printed, you almost have to go back and re-read the stories to know what you were talking about. And one more thing— sometimes we can read a megazine and not have the foggiest notion where to start LoCing it! And have you ever finished a zine and found you couldn't remember what the first story was about? Not to say we should abolish megazines—they're great! (My only objection to them is I can't afford them.) But maybe we just need a campaign—in the story zines, not the letterzines —to encourage people to write. Tell them how easy it it, perhaps give a few tips. Editors could mention it in their editorials, and maybe even (as finances allow) give a discount for having LoC printed.

• a fan points to zines' timing for MediaWest as another reason for less LoCs:

  ... the tendency in the last few years of zine editors to gear their zines to debut at Mediawest.. .a sin of which I am guilty myself. This leads to long dry spells with no zines at all, only to be suddenly inundated by them in May. It takes months sometimes to get through them all. In fact I still have one or two of last year's crop that I haven't read and, by the time, SE#4 is in the reader's hands, the 1984 models will be stacked up waiting to be perused. This also leads to tremendous strain on all the editors, writers and artists involved, rushing headlong to meet that deadline. I think artists especially suffer because so many editors are calling on their talents at the same time and all badgering them to hurry-hurry. Again, I am guilty of this and I apologize to all the artists whose work graces the pages of TREMOR IN THE FORCE. I'm not knocking MediaWest because I think it is absolutely great and the one con that fandom NEEDS every year. But I have also vowed that I will never again set up a zine publishing date strictly to coincide with it. From now on, TIF will be published on a floating schedule and to more modest standards. After I regained consciousness from receiving the bids from printers on TIF#1, I decided that it's back to the old collate-it-your-self and staple-it-instead-of-perfect-binding method that so many of us used in the Olden Days. This has the added advantages of saving both me and the buyer money and will allow more frequent publication.

• this issue prints the letter sent to [Ann W] in response to wanting either the zines she paid for or a refund for undelivered goods from Jani Hicks. The letter Ann W received was from "M. J. Barrowman-Harper" and reads:

  Since October, 1983, I have been handling the affairs of Sara J. Hicks, who is no longer among us. Among her papers were a number of threatening letters from persons whom she had allegedly defrauded regarding reprints of her defunct fanzine. Her financial affairs are still nothing short of chaotic, and as of now her resources are completely nil. However, recently I have again received letters addressed to her containing such things as threats to involve the postal authorities over the ASTRONOMICAL amount of thirty dollars; and I have therefore resolved to restore to those who have been So Damanged their Stellar Losses from MY own meager pocketbook in order to uphold my circle sister's good name. I certainly hope that those penurious folk who drove Jane to such drastic action can live with the consequences of their deeds INCLUDING those in the fandom she loved so well, and which bankrupted her so thoroughly, both financially and emotionally. I wish you good health and peace of mind. /s/ M. J. Barrowman-Harper [hand-written postscript] Your letter threatening action "within 10 days" was undated. Defamation of character can be a devastatingly expensive tort. With people like you, I can almost understand what she did.

• the editor of Southern Enclave comments on the above letter from "M. J. Barrowman-Harper":

  Ann was understandably upset by this ugly and enigmatic letter. A check from M. J. Barrowman-Harper was enclosed with the notation in the comment space "For Blackmail." Taking this letter on the surface, it seems to say that Jani committed suicide, and yet it also seems to circle ali around that statement without actually saying it, as if it meant for people to take that meaning. Does anyone have any information about Jani Hicks?? I am frankly quite puzzled by it all. Taking it on the surface, I am quite distressed by an apparent death, but on second thought I tend to think less charitable thoughts, like someone choose this rather bizarre way of skipping debts. The note is certainly hostile and threatening in itself and Ann points out that it is interesting that polite inquiries brought no response at all from the person above, and only a threat to turn Jani in for mail fraud, a federal offense, got a reply. Please, please—let me hear from anybody out there who has had a similar experience or who has some inside information on what has happened to Jani Hicks.

Issue 5 (September 1984)

cover issue #5

• online here
• contains 56 pages
• And In This Corner... by Marcia Brin, essay
• two fan profiles
• a personal statement from Galactic Winds Press regarding some zine publication status
• a review of Outland Chronicles #2, see that page
• a review of Deceptive Journey, see that page

• the editor is more than a little frustrated:

  Last issue I asked that we all calm down and get out tempers under control, that we realize that we're only talking about a movie here and that a difference of opinion over fictional characters is not enough to go to war over. Most of SE's readers seem to agree and have made honest efforts to lighten the hostile pitch of their letters. My editorial last issue was misinterpreted by some and I have been asked (sarcastically) if I'm outlawing Luke entirely from discussion in favor of such pressing problems as the number of bolts in the Falcon's hull, Of course not. I really don't care what people talk about as long as it's done in an adult manner and not reduced to a kindergarten screaming contest. Several letters addressed comments to this letterzine in very sarcastic tones (condemning me for running personal attacks while attacking me in the process) and, lest I be accused of editting out unfavorable criticism, i have chosen to run them, although I don't feel compelled to justify myself to tnem with direct replies. I have walked a narrow line, trying to be fair to all concerned. I have been accused of censorship by some and I have been chided for not censoring letters by others. It's a no-win situation. Granted, I have deleted portions of some letters that I felt were absolutely too volatile to print, but 99% of time, letters run as they come in to me. About all I can do is ask that people be civil to one another. It has been implied that SOUTHERN ENCLAVE—and I suppose that includes me, too, personally—is irrelevent. Well, I guess maybe it Is. There are times when the whole exercise seems to be one in frustration. SE started out as a fun project, but the acrimony and factionalism that has developed has made it a real chore to sit down and work on. I have given serious thought to just calling it quits with the next issue, but haven't made a concrete decision yet. I guess it will all depends on the letters that come in. I'm sure there are those who will roundly villify me for not being able to stand the heat in the kitchen or for being a crybaby or some such comments. Hell, so be it. SE is done voluntarily on my part and no one is holding a blaster at my head forcing me to continue it. Frankly, it's just not much fun anymore and, if SE#6 leaves me as depressed as #5 has, then that will be it for SOUTHERN ENCLAVE.

• from a fan:

  SOUTHERN ENCLAVE #4 has arrived with many interesting pages to digest. It certainly does seem to be as filled with heated topics as is the summer air. I tend to be one who believes in IDIC. It seems strange to attack either ideas OR people. An idea is something to be cherished. If it is not the same as someone else's, then it is all the more reason to hold its right to existence dear. We all look at things from a different points of view and what is true 'from a certain point of view' many not be from another, but it still has a valid right to existence.

• a fan is also weary:

  I am getting very tired of this "fall of Luke Skywalker" business. For my part, I have no objections to anyone wanting to have their own alternative universe where Luke falls to the dark side (in fact one of the letters presented a very provocative concept of Luke as a Dark Side user independent of the Emperor and Vader.) However, as you stated in your editorial comment, enough is enough. I am getting tired of long, convoluted and totally ridiculous attempts to drag George Lucas into this "fallen Luke" concept. And the attempts of others to refute each twisted theorem is growing equally tiresome. I agree; let's finds something else to discuss.

• a fan writes in a letter that goes on and on and on....:

  Cheree had a legitimate complaint last ish about the vehemence of the discussion on Luke and its seemingly endless length. As someone who's joined the heated fray, I think Cheree and others are quite correct when they make such complaints and I would like to sincerely apologize for my part in all of it. But I feel some sort of last explanation is called for, clarifying the reasons for my reaction (and, I suspect, others). Consider: a small, select group of fans wages a hate campaign to convince everyone that a character you've come to admire, respect, and love is an insignificant scumbag, that literally everything he does and says is arrogant, petty, selfish, and totally evil.

• a fan compares the current wank regarding character bashing to one that happened in the past:

  Does anyone remember Against the Sith? Nancy and Tracy Duncan's zine was a text-book on pathological character assassination. Their final issue had a "Virtue Chart" that "proved" Leia was as deplorable as they said she was. The way they had it, Leia was just barely above Vader (she -35, he -39), and Tarkin was better than both of them (-21). Obi-Wan came out the most virtuous, ranking 49 (a perfect score is 50). Y'know I can't help but wonder what they thought of ROTJ. Then again... Why bring this up? Well, lately, I've been having these attacks of deja vu while reading some letterzines. Yes, I've definitely been there before.

• a fan wonders if zines have gotten too big, too flashy, and too expensive:

  My question: is this perhaps putting zines in a league in which they shouldn't be? A high-priced zine is risky for the customer. it's even more risky for the editor, who has to make the initial investment and take responsibility for her overhead. Most of us don't consult business lawyers when we start a zine, as far as I know—but costs are getting so high that maybe we should! The alternative is to scale down our projects. I know—I like megazines as much as anyone. The editor who tackles such an endeavor usually brings superior skill into it and attracts a certain amount of talent but the same editor could do smaller projects, couldn't she? Then, if she did have problems, she would have to skip out altogether, or commit suicide; it would be manageable. And not only would there be fewer problems to deal with, people would get less riled about what problems did come up. Pandom used to a light, fun place. If we don't watch out, it's going to collapse of its weight.

• regarding a flap about an "unauthorized fan work":

  First, I have some information about the purported story outline for the first SW trilogy (THE FALL OF THE REPUBLIC). This information comes from [names redacted] who have spoke to both John Flynn and Maureen Garrett... The out line is not genuine. It was written by John Flynn, a long-time Baltimore area fan, and, according to John, submitted to Lucasfilm. Lucasfilm replied, in essence, that the story was very nice, but they couldn't use it. However, John was welcome to publish it as fan fiction as long as he didn't make a profit or try to deceive people about the true nature of the story. So he did publish it as a fan. A dealer obtained the outline, and, seeing the profit potential, put an official-looking over on it, hyped it as a leaked draft, and started selling if for a high price ($15 in this area; John's original price had been in the vicinity of $4). Originally, Maureen Garrett was skeptical of John's claim that he was not responsible for the deception -- Linda says John was pretty distressed himself, for obvious reasons. By Norwescon, a week after she had talked to Linda (Norwescon was March 23-25), Maureen told Maggie that she agreed that John (and fans) had been the victim of an unscrupulous dealer. The official-looking cover is also not authentic. Maureen told me that Lucasfilm would never put such an obvious cover on a script or story outline, especially a sensitive one.

• regarding two recent letters, one an open letter:

  The letter from M. J. Barrowman-Harper on Jani Hick's behalf was a truly fascinating example of both condescension and intimidation. All references to Jani were written in the present tense, so I don't believe that she is dead, it's a shame that her coven sister had to write for her and that Jani can no longer speak for herself. Whatever the case, sending threatening letters isn't going to cancel out the fact that she owes money and that it should be paid back anymore than the saccharine sweet letter from Ronnie Sacksteder is going to take the onus of what she is doing off her. Both have taken money from people who sent it to them in good faith. Since no zines have been forthcoming or are going to be forthcoming from either of them and many letters have been written to them asking and finally demanding the return of the money sent, then some nethod of getting that money back must be taken. if threatening legal go to it!

Issue 6 (December 1984)

cover of issue #6

• online here
• contains 68 pages
• this issue was late due to the editor's health problems
• there is no mention of the tone of letters by the editor (see the previous issue), but Cargill asks fans to be briefer in their letters; this does not mean that the fans didn't discuss the issue at length
• "Stalking the Elusive Film Crew, or A Day in Intercourse with Harrison Ford," article on the filming of the movie "Witness" by Judi Grove
• "Raiders of the Temple of Doom, or Dr. Fantasy Strikes Back," an article by Ann Wortham regarding Raiders of the Lost Ark bloopers as seen at the 42nd WorldCon
• A Telelogy of Torture, an essay by Liz S. on the presentation of torture and the mistreatment of droids
• an addendum to the review in the previous issue, see Deceptive Journey
• a review by Sandi Necchi of The Wookiee Commode #1, see that page
• a review by Sandi Necchi of Kessel Run #4, see that page
• art by Danaline Bryant, Carol Peters, Cheree Cargill
• submission requests for a Knight Rider zine that never got off the ground ("Knight's Lady, or "The Steed's Tale": From an ad in Datazine #29: "Do computers need love, too? The first fan novel, as far as we know, written from the point of view of a car... Who else could discuss the relationship of dreams to reality while negotiating the Santa Monica Freeway at rush hour?")

• a fan comments on the recent request by the editor to tone down some elements and style of some of the LoCs the letterzine was receiving:

  Is it possible to both enjoy and be saddened by teh sam issue of a letterzine? I enjoyed SE5 for the same reasons I've enjoyed past issues -- it was full of interesting letters, both agreeable and otherwise, had in-depth zine reviews, an article and current zine listings. I was saddened by your request that we end all the vitriol brought on by the Church of Ford/Cathedral of Luke letters. Nowhere in your editorial in SE4 did I get the impression that you were ordering people to drop a subject. Nowhere in your editorial did you say we couldn't or shouldn't write about Luke Skywalker, as one of the Luke-haters suggested in her letter (and wasn't she being half-obvious about her own desire to negate his very existence when she brought this up?) All you were saying, in my opinion, was that enough anger had been vented over an all blown out of proportion fictional subject, enough friendships had been destroyed unnecessarily because of it, and it is time to return to the original reason we all became SW fans--to enjoy ourselves. I will gladly debate any positive or negative aspects of tne SW universe as long as the subject is kept on the level of a debate. Once it becomes obvious to me that someone is on a religious-style vendetta, that is where I leave the -discussion.- My reason--it is impossible to debate with a stone wall. Cheree, please don't let the gloom and doomers drown you in their negativity. You put out what I feel is currently the best SW letterzine in existence. You are a good, fair, honest editor... We need people like you too much to let the people who insist that their way is the only way drive you away. Please stay with us.

• a fan writes of what she sees as backlash:

  You are right about the near-deification of Han Solo turning some fans away from him. The same thing has happened with some Luke fen for the same reason regarding him. Actually, my feelings on this are that these fans were probably already losing interest in these characters and the nastiness was just tne little push to destroy whatever interest was left. I've also heard that some fen have stopped reading letterzines altogether because the zines had become so full of hurtful anger that tne object of letterzine writing had been lost, and that they had lost interest in the SW characters because they had been dissected for good or evil into fictional things, rather than fictional people.

• a fan addresses another regarding earlier statements:

  Now that I have seen letters from you complaining about the stated editorial/censorship policies of both JUNDLAND, TOO and SOUTHERN ENCLAVE, should I expect to see a similar letter from you to the editor of SCOUNDREL, since its editor has now stated that she, too, will be following a censorship policy? The point I am trying to make is that, just as you or I are entitled to our own opinions of now we would want a letterzine to oe or not be censored, so is the zine editor entitled to choose the policy that her zine will follow. We may not like it, but as long as the zine ed lets us know what she will or will not find acceptable, she is being fair and honest with us.

• more on "censorship":

  Letterzines will not die out if we go on to something new, but they could die out if we all bore everyone to death with the same old stuff. If you come up with some new ideas on the fallen Luke slant, I'd love to read them, in the meantime, the subject has gotten plain old-fashioned BORING. Even so, if you continue to write the same things over and over in your letters, I'm sure that Cheree would publish them. She is not censoring ideas, and I tnink that you nave a hell of a nerve for even suggesting such a thing. If you don't like the way that Cheree runs her zine, why don't you put out one of your own with absolutely no censorship? I'd be the first to write to it.

• a fan writes:

  It was obvious to me that your editorial comment in SE#4 was a request that we tone down the sarcasm and hostility when discussing certain ideas or submerge our repetitive ravings in private correspondence. It was a request; you did not threaten to censor letters containing non-hostile presentations of any idea. I do not contest any fan's right to disagree with you, but I fail to understand why your request drew such deep sarcasm from some readers, or such rude, unreasonable dismissal of your suggestions.

• a fan writes:

  I support your editorial policy 100%, as apparently, so many of your readers do! I'm sick of this debate! When I see letters printed from 'volatile' writers, I skip them. What a shame that (as tne editor) you can't do the same—I'm really sorry that after all your fine work on SOUTHERN ENCLAVE, you get stuck with those irrational, offensive and hurtful letters. Every group seems to have its extreme factions; what always amazes me is that the extremists always attract a few followers! They they insist on inflicting their opinions on the rest of. us, at tne expense of everyone's pleasure, is beyond me. If you decide to get out of the kitchen, I'll certainly understand, out, my, won't I miss your cooking!

• a fan writes about the role of the editor:

  I want to throw out, in light of the discussion about editorial policy in letterzines and the editor's prerogatives, a comment made by a BNF SF fan, himself the editor of a fanzine and a contributor to many more; it's a different perspective on the editor's responsibility in regard to LoC's, When I told this guy, during a conversation at Norwescon last year, that there was a strong feeling in media fandom that a letter should be printed exactly as is, no editing, no cuts, he was astonished. This is not the tradition in SF fanzines (or, for that matter, in professional publications). He further said that in his opinion as both an editor and a Loccer, an editor who merely retyped and printed letters with no editing was a compiler, not an editor. Given the tenor of fandom these days, I feel that I ougnt to add that these comments ate not directed at anyone or any zine; as I said earlier, I think they provide a different perspective from the one we commonly see in media fandom, and the person who made them was as committed to them as we are to our views. But they might make an interesting jump-ing-off point for a discussion. Just what is an editor's role in a letterzine? Is all editing bad, and, if not, what is justifiable and what is not?

• another fan comments:

  Now, people have complained about ungraciousness in letterzines for years; SW fandom is not unique. Still many fans continue to suffer from, endure, and defend inconsiderate LoCers. Why? There apparently is a point past which freedom to express oneself becomes license, past which civilized behavior will not tread. Witness all the editors who oegin with the highest hopes of not editing, "censoring" letters, but end up with pleas for clemency in language, and with suggestions that Locers please re-read their prose with consideration for propriety, let alone for the feelings of those addressed. I suspect, Cheree, that fandom simply does not really believe that you and other editors receive unacceptable mail. That it honestly has no idea of how vitriolic and uncharitable some folks can be. Therefore, I suggest that you print the flaming things. Let the writers see what they look like in cold black and white. Let the readers have the raw material dumped in tbeir laps for an issue or two. Maybe, as a result, we will finally begin a purposeful discussion of just what is one to do with such material instead of a distant, holier-than-thou exchange of platitudes about free expression.... If you fear blasted feelings among those attacked, change the names. Instead of retyping sentences like, 'Maggie is a drooling idiot to think that Ben is not a toad", you could retype "MarySueFan is a drooling idiot to think that Ben is not a toad." Or, what the hell, go ahead and use my name as substitute. I don't mind. Whatever you do, my vote is for a stab at real candor to open fandom's eyes. I' ve seen too mucn pain exchanged in tne years I've been active, too many hurt feelings and looks of bewilderment, all because some folks in fandom have curious notions about "honest opinions."

• a fan writes:

  Some of you people hung yourselves nicely witn your letters in the last SE. I've even got the rope that I'll gladly let you use. And I 'm being considerably nicer to you (and you know who you are!) than you were to Cheree. You can't be satisfied with twisting the saga to fit your own interpretations, but you have to attack the editor's policy, too! What IS your problem? I'm ashamed to be in the same letterzine as you. Now. Twist THAT one. I dare you.

• a fan writes:

  I'd like to apologize to Cheree for whatever pain I may have inflicted because of the vehemence of my letters, even tho I essentially stand by them.

• a fan offers some personal perspective:

  I've heard some fans say that they left ST fandom because things got a little too much for them, because of personal attacks and useless discussions. Actually, I suspect that these people left ST and came to SW to start their own little corner of chaos, their own useless discussions and tneir own factionalism. Having plowed my way tnrougn a stack of INTERSTATS, I have come away with just the opposite impression as Laura's; Han vs. Luke at its worst- has nothing on even the mildest [K/S] debates. And even they could take lessons from the review and letters pages of THE COMICS JOURNAL. Their Letters Page isn't called "aiood and Tnunder' for nothing. So if you think things are bad here...

• a fan writes:

  This debate has deteriorated into repetitiveness. Face it, folks, it's gotten dull. If you want to keep talking about it, I doubt Cheree will stop you from doing so. But her point is: WHAT MORE CAN BE SAID? No one's converted anyone to their position. It's become like an argument between an atheist and a devout Christian. After a few hours of talking they may start insulting each other because there's nowhere else to go with the argument. I believe Cheree has done all she can in this case. She has let everyone have their say over and over again, even when it hurt her. That shows remarkable seriousness on her part — that is, she's serious about her responsibilities as an editor of a letterzine.

• regarding most zines being published "for" MediaWest:

  I loved your editorial comments. Especially about the zine publishing situation. I just returned from MediaWest with a duffel bag full of zines, just about oroke iny arm. Except for the letterzines and Mary Jean Holmes' SHADOWSTAR, it's been a barren year. Now a deluge. I can understand why publishers focus on MediaWest, but I think it is not fair to readers or zine editors either. Think of all the competition for writers and artists and buyers. If they were spread over a year there would be a steady source of inspiration to writers and readers alike.

• a fan is sick of character bashing:

  You are right about the rising level of acrimony. I'm bored to tears with the Luke/Han arguments. Luke's evil/Han's a prince; Luke's a saint/Han's a nerd. Who cares anymore? They are arguing the matter into the ground. Let's move on.

• a fan has a suggestion:

  Both SCOUNDREL and SOUTHERN ENCLAVE are now on the same publishing schedule. I love letterzines, they get me through the wastes between MediaWests, but could you two editors get together and slightly adjust your schedules? I'm sure coming out within a few weeks of each other is going to cut into the number letters you receive and put you in to competition for articles. It is obvious fans can support several letterzines.

• a fan says the real cost of a zine comes when one brings the zine to the printers, and the two letters (one D'Alliance Open Letter, and the other the Jani Hicks letter suggesting that she had committed suicide):

  ... how much ripped-off money are we talking about that would force someone to change their name and allege suicide because of the pressures of fandom? One can only assume that we are talking in rather large proportions. Someone has to be running scared to take such measures, and certainly has a lot of gall to stick around in fandom afterward. It has to stop somewhere.

• a fan relies on fanon to put her mind at ease:

  From various fanzines I have managed to acquire it seems that Han has as many backgrounds as he does fans who write about him. He is the Other in any number of alternate universes, but I think it is unfair to expect George Lucas to change his established universe when he's give fans such a wealth of material to sue free of charge. And it is Luke's story, after all.

• a fan comments on SW fandom as opposed to George Lucas' SW and refers to an article she wrote for Scoundrel:

  SW fandom is founded on a dichotomy, a contradiction: GL's SW differs from fannish SW because his is mythical, stereotypical, symbolic, etc. If we are going to write SW fanfic, we have to flesh out what's on screen and in the books in whatever way we want. That was the focus on the article. I didn't say GL doesn't "know" his characters. I said he doesn't know how to present them in what I consider to be enough of a dramatic, three-dimensional way. Or, he is unwilling to. GL isn't concerned with a three-dimensional story. That's not what his vision of SW is.... I still maintain that fans have a more exciting, more developed vision of the SW story than its creator does. I know quite well that I am a minority in this, although I personally know several fans who feel as I do. The majority of fandom seems to think of GL as some sort of creative genius. I don't believe he is. I think he is like a lot of people who have incredibly wonderful ideas but executes them in a very limited unimaginative fashion.

Issue 7 (March 1985)

cover of issue #7

• online here
• contains 52 pages
• The Private Life of a Jedi, part two: "A Treatise on The Jedi Order" by Jeanine Hennig, essay
• Dune and Star Wars: How Similar are They? by Barbara T, essay
• a review of Far Realms #6, see that page
• a review of Docking Bay #5, see that page
• filler art by Danaline Bryant, Cheree Cargill
• word search puzzle by Linda Vandiver
• a fan comments about the previous issue:

  Seriously, you've made a really "need to be talked out" issue about bail-out. The same holds true for the strange and silly rivalries and disagreements that keep on for years at a time, sometimes. Fen seem to be a tolerant lot on the whole, but there's also that few that can't live and let live at all. Is it those few that cause the problem? Is it the tolerance? Is it these fights that cause people to bail out? It does seem that not a year goes by without a fan gafiating for no reason at all — to the point of not contacting any of those s/he corresponded with. So many have dropped into the Twilight Zone. There does seem to be a problem, tho it beats me to truly figure out what it is at times. What IS to be done? Kaybe sometimes we carry our obsessions a little too far. Fans are obsessive by nature, I think, and maybe we need to tone it down.

• a fan writes:

  I was very glad to see this particular issue and am delighted that you will be continuing the zine. I have to admit to being fascinated by some of the letters in which fen just about begged you to not stop putting out SE, especially the ones from the people who were responsible for having caused the problem to begin with. Either these people just can't see the harm they almost did (ending the best SH letterzine in current existence) or they finally realized their mistake. I hope it's the latter. Hindsight is better than blindsight.

• a zine ed addresses a topic from the previous issue, most zines debuting at MediaWest:

  For us, the reason is simple: we started there, so a one-year printing cycle puts us there again. And it is still the best opportunity to sell zines -- a crass but necessarily consideration in publishing them.

• a fan comments on the Official Star Wars Fan Club:

  I look to it as an advertisement for which you have to pay. There does not seem to be any discussion of the saga on an intelligent level. There is no real fan forum provided. They seem to play to the lowest common denominator in the matter which they produce. The newsletters always seem to be a season or two late in their arrival. For a business operation, this is not something which should be tolerated. Timeliness is the least you should expect from a professional organization.

• a fan comments on differing expectations:

  On the subject of the financial responsibility of zine editors, I tend to take a middle ground. From professional outfits like my book clubs or the Spiegel Catalogue, I expect to get what I ordered or my money refunded—no excuses. But I wouldn't put fanzines in a strictly professional category. If an editor can give me a sufficiently good explanation for her inability to deliver—the printer took all the deposit money and absconded to Venezuela, or the house burned down with all her worldly goods, the cat, and the freshly collated zines in it—then I certainly would be content to forget about my five or ten dollars rather than to force a fellow fan into financial ruin. I'm sure I'm not alone in this feeling.

• a fan writes:

  With the exception of Against the Sith, I don't remember any zines that had Leia "swooning over how wonderful, noble, generous, good, kind Luke and how (Leia) could never be worthy of him." In those early days of sw fandom we were drawing on two hours of movie to do what ST fandom was doing with seventy or so hours of TV. Back then, Leia was a bitch, Luke a hick kid, and Han your basic stud/redneck. (Oh, and please be careful how you sling that word "wimp" around.) You would take the true climax of the film, the moment Luke realizes he is about to make a big mistake, and twist it into some sort of selfish act. You have been asked this before, I ask it again: if Luke Skywalker did absolutely nothing right, then what should he have done instead?

• a very out-spoken fan, and anti-Han fan, writes:

  One thing about Han Solo: he' s not easy to stay mad at. Having just viewed TESB after four years (and I 'd only seen it twice then) I've had a chance to finally watch my favorite SW film since having joined the discussion in the letterzines in late ' 83, which was when I first began actually thinking about the SW universe. This very special viewing (on a friend's VCR) gave me the opportunity to observe all the characters even more carefully, and my admiration for Kershner has doubled, but my appreciation of the acting by the three principals, and Mayhew, has increased even more. Each managed to convey such powerful emotions in just a look or two. And, again, Han's part in the film made me more sympathetic to him, more than I ever have been in the past, I watched closely the scenes between him and Leia and I really saw for the first time the depth of struggle these two people are undergoing and I can no longer judge Han harshly. I do not believe either was "wrong"—I simply can't bring myself to judge them (the same goes for Luke). So the last part of my Loc from last issue is a tirade expressing past feelings based on skewed memories of a film that had dimmed in clarity over the years, and also based on annoyance of recent fan deification of the character. Those of you who have a VCR probably cannot fully appreciate all this. It was like seeing the film for the first time, only with a much clearer mind-set.

• a fan sees some similarities regarding controversy with Star Trek fandom:

  Anyone who was involved in Trek fandom just a few years ago might remember some of the fan wars which were going on over the K/S question. This situation reminds me very much of that. Very strong feelings on both sides, and when rational arguments gave out, both sides fell back on name calling and other unpleasant things. k great deal of bitterness was caused, but nothing really changed. Most people never changed their minds, but eventually remembered IDIC and decided to "agree to disagree" and allow others the right to their own opinions without risking attack for it.

Issue 8 (June 1985)

cover issue #8

• online here
• contains 48 pages
• contains some photos from MediaWest
• "An Old Softshoe" by Annie Wortham (a report of seeing Mark Hamill in a performance of the Broadway play "Harrigan 'N Hart" on January 26, 1985)
• a review of Skywalker #5, see that page
• Hanfan vs Lukefan, the conflict that won't die: several fans write long, long, long, overwrought letters defending their position and accusing others of the very thing they are doing themselves

• a fan remembers the good old days, before the second movie:

  No, it wasn't as bad between Luke and Han fans before TESB. (I can't speak for face-to-face encounters; I live out in hellbegone Seattle and only communicate with most of fandom through letterzines.) The differences between fans re: L&H in those days revolved around personal preferences for types of men. Sure we had a few obsessive types around like the Duncans, but none of the endless mind-battering more familiar today. People would call Han a macho, trigger-happy trucker; but they also called Luke a mindless twit. And neither side got into much ado about it. The real arguments were over Vader, and the Empire vs. Alliance... But even those arguments weren't vicious or interminable; writers simply recognized that so-and-so didn't agree with them and dropped the exchange at a stage of mutual agreement. I wish it could be that way again; last issue's SE reminded me a lot of those good old days.

• a fan wonders about sf and media fandom relations:

  There is still a lot of prejudice against media fen from general sf fen. I can't understand the attitude of such people. I always thought that sf fen were supposed to have open minds no matter what kind of sf or fantasy they enjoy. When it gets to the point of such fen impugning our intelligence, I feel that they are not only playing dirty pool but showing their own lack of intelligence. I'd like to see some kind of panel at a general sf convention with both general and media sf fen where this subject could be discussed openly. What the heck are these general sf fen afraid of—that most of us are women, that we've created a fertile ground for developing successful pro writers, that we' re not willing to be snobs about our interests, what?

• a fan wonders about media fandom's gender imbalance:

  I've thought a little about why there are many more women in media fandom than men, but I haven't come up with any good theories on my own. I don't know anything about SF fandom, but it seems to be male-dominated. If so, could it just be the subject matter? somehow, I really can't believe guys don't want to talk about SW/ST. Is SF fandom different in a more obvious way? Aren't their zines filled with stories, too? Maybe it has to do with where the fans are coming from. If the only men that know about media fandom are SF fans, they're already predisposed to ignore it. So where would the male media fans come from? I discovered SW fandom through ON THE MARK, Mark Hamill's fan club. I don't think you're going to find many men there.

• another fan comments on the gender imbalance:

  I've been puzzled, too, by the self-imposed segregation. Could it be that most women in media fandom are there because of an attraction to a particular star or stars of a movie? For instance, I originally got into STAR TREK fandom way back when because I was fascinated by Mr. Spock. After a few years of intensive activity, I burned out and gafiated for about four years. It took Harrison Ford to get me interested again—not in STAR WARS or EMPIRE, but in RAIDERS. From there, I quickly progressed into Ford fandom, then SK, although I'd loved sw without being in fandom. it was not the storyline of either movie that drew me back in—it was the character of Indiana Jones. Then, oddly, I became a Hanfan not through the Han I saw on the screen, but the Han I read about in zines. Could it be that women in media fandom are there strictly for fantasy fulfillment with a particular character? From what I've been able to deduce from the men in SF fandom, their primary interest is the adventure/plot of the story, not the characters. Is that what differentiates us— men/adventure vs. women/characters?

• a fan comments on sf and media fandom:

  When it comes right down to it, Worldcon was really not the place to show the trilogy. In the mainstream fanzines I read, the most charitable opinion of media fandom I saw expressed was that it's one of mainstream's "recruitment media." in a way it may be true, but the converse is just as true; and media fandom did 'spring from mainstream fandom, transplanting most of its conventions entire. But as it stands in 1985, the two are separate entities. it wouldn't bother me to join a mainstream zine or two (they're free for the Lacing'.), but I wouldn't try to discuss SW at any length in them. The possibility of crossover by individuals isn't necessarily followed by the possibility of merger of groups. In the past it did follow; the first printed fanzine (in the 1930's) contained a listing of all SF films made to that date, compiled by Forrest J. Ackerman. The split seems to have come with the New Wave, when SF writers first deliberately aspired to Art but the visual media failed to consistently follow suit. By the time STAR trek came on, TV and movies were sci-fi, if not "skiffy", and not to be considered true SF at all, regardless of how good they were or even how well they satisfied the pre-New wave notion of SF. Mainstream and media are two different worlds now, and the SW marathon was invading mainstream's space, as the saying goes, at Worldcon. The Hugos are important, and we have nothing to gain by disdaining them.

• a fan comments on being a minority in this letterzine:

  How do I feel about being the only male in this letterzine? Damn conspicuous, that's howl Like a black dot on an all-white canvas. Sometimes I wonder if this is just a front for some dark, secret .amazon society, and that any moment I'll be grabbed, lashed to an altar, and my pancreas ripped out as an offering to some pagan goddess. Other than that, it's quite interesting. To tell the truth, I don't like most men. But the few men that I do consider my friends are fans of some sort of other, and I'd like to see more of them in media fandom.

• this issue has a long, long letter from a fan who is quite upset about all sorts of insinuations regarding opinions and Hanfans/Lukefans, as well as a comment by the editor in the last issue -- the editor replies:

  I am sorry that Marica is upset and I apologize for that. The note was included in all innocence and in a spirit of friendship since Marcia, Jean and Melody were conspicuous in their absence and I thought their many friends and acquaintances would be curious as to why there were no letters from them in that issue. However, I did not feel that Marcia's note was "a personal confidence" and I am shocked at her reaction to it. Moreover, I am quite offended by her insinuation that I have committed a dishonorable act. All I can suggest is that, if she or anyone else is so disturbed by the "editorial ethics" of this zine, then I will be happy to cancel their subscription and refund their money.

• some thoughts on the movie trilogy:

  Well, anyway—in reading my back issues of SOUTHERN ENCLAVE and SCOUNDREL, it has struck me that any number of people seem to have difficulties with the final outcome of the SW Saga, as put forth in ROTJ. I have heard theories that range from George tried to make a film that would please the widest possible audience and in miscalculating- the reactions of that same audience he managed to please just about no one, through George was jealous of Harrison Ford and decided to use the film to get even with him, all the way to George just got tired of the whole thing and decided to trash it to the point that no one would ever bother him about it again. In my opinion these are very extreme positions, but I have also heard theories that have touched every point in between.

Issue 9 (September 1985)

cover of issue #9

• online here
• contains 60 pages
• The Private Life of a Jedi, part two: "The Lightsaber", by Jenni Hennig, essay
• "An Interview with Harrison Ford" transcribed by Carolyn Golledge (originally aired on "Terry Willesee Tonight" in Sydney, Australia on Monday, April 29, 1985)
• "Revenge of the Jedi Chairs!!!" by Jeannie Webster (a Star Wars-focused con report for the most recent WorldCon, Los Angeles)
• a report that Sara Campbell had suffered a stroke while in the hospital, includes a plea for get well wishes and cards
• art by Yvonne Zan, Cheree Cargill, and Rhonda Henderson
• a personal statement that Darklord #2 will not be published
• this issue has a very early use of porn as a term of affection: "Hope someone finds Sally some Luke porn so she can stop drooling all over the phone wires."
• there is a reprint of an article by Linda Billington called "Real 'con' finds fans talking film, camping it up, acting favorites" which was published the Anchorage Daily News on June 6, 1985. The topic is the fifth MediaWest*Con.
• this issue has much about the Luke and Han favorite character controversy
• the editor writes that she prints all the LoCs she receives and very, very rarely edits them

• regarding the Duncan Scandal, current controversy regarding Han and Luke character as favorites, and revisionist history:

  I do agree with Mickey that major difference between then and now is that the various waves of dogmatism faded more quickly in earlier days, which brings up another bit of history. There's been a lot of mention recently about The Duncans of Oregon, a lot of comparison between their absorption with Luke and the current emphasis on Han. There has also been a certain amount of excuses made for current Han dogmatism through an alleged Duncan precedent. I'm going to stick my neck out and protest the revisionism I see developing. I'm open to discussion on the matter if anyone out there is interested; I think the newer fans need as clear a view on what happened as possible. For those who weren't around then, the Duncans published AGAINST THE SITH, early in 1978, a zine that vies with SKYWALKER (Bev Clark, ed.) for being the first major SW zine (I've never gotten the chronology straight). ATS published for about 3 years, and was Very Conservative in its outlook. Luke was openly deified, Leia was criticized for her liberation, Han was Not Approved Of. Many of the stories and articles and LoCs they wrote provided liberal fandom with hours of entertainment/indignation; but they did. have their following, and they did introduce to fandom a lot of people still around. I knew them, in a fannishly social sense; they were naive, parochial, and young. But their "sin" was not in promoting Luke as Christ. What turned fandom on the Duncans with a vengeance was their post TESB letter to faned's, and to Lucasfilm, demanding that TESB be burned, that fans boycott the film, that fandom agree with them, in their insinuation that Lucas was a servant of Satan. Fandom was furious with this letter, I remember hours spent on the phone with people across the country, discussing the issue (trying to explain backwoods Oregon mores and social perceptions to anyone outside the Northwest is not easy, believe me. Apologies to any Oregonians out there, but you gotta admit, the NW does have its share of Strange People and Places). Anyway. Fans wrote LF protesting the Duncans, defending their image. Fans wrote the Duncans protesting.,.you can imagine -- Some of the letters were pips. Not long after this, the Our Intolerance and self-righteousness are what felled them, though, not their opinions of Luke, Han or anyone else. And all this happened 5 years ago. I personally do not think that the Duncan scandal is legitimate ground for the current debate over whether Han fans should feel the need to defend their favorite against Luke fans. Especially not when the only issue remotely resembling the absolutism of the Duncans is the dogmatic way some people are (and have been for issue after issue after issue of letterzines) presenting Han.

• a fan ponders the gender ratio in fandoms:

  The male vs. female ratio is a curious problem. Thing is, that ratio only seems to exist in media fandom; in straight SF circles it seems to be at most 50/50 if not overwhelmingly male. Probably a contributing factor is the slant of the educational system until recently. From the beginning, girls were pushed away from interests in hard science and mathematics. This, of course, didn't help girls develop an interest in SF, especially in the days when it was mostly hard science, gadgetry and BEMs. In addition, it was for a long time considered junk, along the lines of the "penny dreadfuls" of the turn of the century, doubly improper for young girls to read. Also, when you look at the topics covered in media fiction, you see that they don't have a heavy emphasis toward science and technology for their own sake. Rather, the emphasis is on exploration of other cultures, relationships between characters, ethical conflicts between cultures of differing mores. In other words, people, not objects.

• more on SF and media fans:

  SF zines tend to be mostly letterzines and newszines with articles and letters filling their pages. Fiction rarely makes an appearance in such zines. Maybe it is the perception of the fiction issue that might be some of the basis of the "division" of the fandoms. I have noticed most SF fen look to fiction as being something which could be marketed. If it were printed in a zine, it would be done so instead of having it available for the professional market. Too, I have heard it said that media fen use the universe of others and are not creative enough to invent their own. Well. The same could be said of SF fen who inhabit the universes of books which others have created. Then there is the charge made of "illiteracy" against media fen....

• regarding SF and media fandom:

  SF fandom is different from media fandom in many ways, though there is a broad similarity in the forms the fandom takes and in some of the characteristics of the fans themselves. For one thing. SF fans are largely male while media fans are over whelmingly female. Why is anyone's guess, though I think Cheree has part of the answer in her suggestion that there is a certain amount of movie star fandom in media fandom, and that has never attracted males. It's certainly nothing as simplistic as men (SF fans) preferring action/adventure and women (media fans) preferring characters; the most vitriolic anti media SF fans tend to be just those who dislike action/adventure SF and press for more sophisticated, character-oriented SF. Then there are the differences in SF fanzines, which rarely contain fiction, except of the "fannish" (in group ish) variety. Those few that do contain fiction are regarded with contempt, as most fans feel that there are enough paying markets for SF that anything publishable could be sold to them, so that anything published in a fanzine is likely to be what is unpublishable, i.e., awful. The fact that media fanzines are almost entirely fiction is one reason why some SF fans regard us with contempt. Their opinion is inappropriate in media fandom because of different circumstances, but they carry it over anyway mostly because they have never bothered to actually read a media fanzine. (Admittedly, some have and still dislike them.) But then, some SF fans regard us with contempt anyway and merely seize on fan fiction as an excuse. Explain its role in media fandom, and they'll find something else to dislike. Reason doesn't have a whole lot to do with it either... we threaten the status of the BNFs—media fans don't know who they are, and, worse, don't care. Something they love is also threatened: not just SF, but written SF, and maybe writing (and reading) in general. No matter how literate media fans are, the fact that their primary loyalty is to visual SF is threatening to those who love the written medium. And this threatens their future, because they see so many more of us than of them, and most importantly, they see that the new blood is not coming into SF fandom but into some form of media fandom, though not necessarily what we would recognize as media fandom. The average of the readers of the general circulation of SF fanzines is going up one year every year; the number of fanzines is down; the number of fanzines by newcomers is down ever further; and some of the newer members of SF fanzine fandom are not the traditional teenagers but people in their 20's and 30's. So what do I suggest? First, to understand the background (some of it) of hostility to us, and not to assume an antagonistic attitude. Not all SF fans dislike media fans; in fact, most don't. It's just that the ones who do are so loud about it! Don't deprecate SF fandom and if you don't know much about it and happen to be talking to a SF fan, admit it and whatever you do, don't compare it unfavorably with media fandom to his face. Discuss the subject as rationally as possible; this in itself may be a pleasant surprise to the SF fan (though SF fans are not necessarily rational themselves, as the vicious battles over the SF fan funds recently showed). Agree with any valid criticism the fan makes of media fandom, or at least try to explain it calmly without coming off like a fanatic another stereo type SF have of media fans. Realize that you are most likely not going to convert the most rabid anti-media fans, no matter what you do. At best, you may convince one that you are one of the different fans. And take Norman Spinrad with about 5 pounds of salt. The man speaketh with forked tongue, as they say. In one breath, he will decry the way media fans have taken over SF cons and introduced cele brity worshipping into "egalitarian" SF fandom. and in the next complain that SF cons don't cater sufficiently to SFWA members. Also, his preferred style is passionate, which tends to exaggerate the force of his argument. However, it also makes him amusing, if infuriating, to watch in action.

• about sf and media fandom and gender:

  Re female fandom... I think you have hit upon something with your comment that women may be more willing to work at something that has no promise of monetary reward. I'm not sure if this is a cultural thing, or an innate thing. Certainly it isn't work without reward-the emotional and intellectual reward is immense. But we ain't getting paid for it in fact, if you publish a zine, you are probably losing money on it! (I speak from experience!) Maybe women can "afford", image wise, to make "fools" out of themselves over something like fandom, where many men feel they can't afford to. This comes back, then, to my original comments about how great a tolerance for public ridicule one has. I still think most women have more tolerance for it than most men -- can "afford" to have more tolerance, perhaps, because society expects women to be a bit "frivolous".

• more on gender and fandom:

  As for the male/female fan question... I was going to chew up some scenery over this old, dependable subject since I'm one female who has always preferred action/adventure to heavy relation ship stories, but it is hard to deny that many more women prefer the latter. Maybe that's because our culture teaches women to survive by reacting, rather than by acting. Hence, stories that delve into the mys teries and nuances of reacting to life and people are considered more valuable. Guys generally are taught that their survival depends on doing some thing, so they prefer stories that show them how to accomplish just that. I know I was raised to be active, and often become impatient with media-fan dom's obsession with relationships, even creating them in the author's mind where none seem to exist. Ideally, in my opinion, both extremes — relationships with no plot, and plot with no relationships should be avoided. Similarly, articles about Ford filming WITNESS, or Hamill's stage plays don't interest me and only make it harder to convince a mundane or a SF fan that media fandom isn't really movie star fandom in disguise. I'm sure many people enjoy the pieces, but they have nothing to do with SW, which is why I'm here. I sometimes feel as uncomfortable with all the lusting after the male actors in media fandom as I do with all the naked ladies in Science Fiction Review. Maybe I'm just an odd duck.

• this fan is not a big fan of SF zines:

  [C R] asked if mainstream SF fanzines also are filled with stories like ours. Not the few with which I'm familiar. SF fans seem to think that if a story is not good enough to publish professionally, it's not good enough to publish at all. The zines I've seen often have very pointed reviews and colorful accounts of cons and other events. The letter columns are also a major feature. Some of the articles and letters tend to cater to an "in" group, spelling "God" and "beer" as "Ghod" and "bheer", stuff like that. Some zines also will devote pages to things like listings of an author's books, stories and articles, with ungodly (unghodly?) amounts of white space in between, useful to some fans, but not terribly creative. I've seen articles ranging from informative and enlight ening to pompous and pedantic.

• a fan asks to be NOT included:

  I speak only for myself in this matter, but the fact is, I would prefer to be included out of the Luke/Han debate. I don't object to the subject matter of the discussion. I do object to the use of sloppy rhetoric which relentlessly, and in at least one case, inaccurately, includes unconsenting bystanders in the fray. The fact that I have chosen not to parade my own opinions on the topic in public does not mean either that (a) I have none, or (b) that the opinions I do maintain fall neatly into someone else's pre-determined categories. I consider myself to be a "SWars" fan, rather than a fan of Luke, Han, or the Empire (for example) exclusively. Please don't trouble yourselves to speak on my behalf! Argue the niceties of your chosen arguments to the limits of your hearts' content, but please, be aware that the generalities of whom you speak so freely may well be irked at the liberties you take. Particularly when the tone of your comments becomes rather upsetting to at least one of the bystanders involved. Specifics make for a much more devastating argument than sweeping generalities, anyway: let the "everybodies" look after their own concerns. Thank you!

• factions in Star Trek?:

  In answer to your question of whether or not there is a similar factionalism in ST fandom between the Spock and Kirk fans, yes, there definitely is, between some of them. This doesn't exist only in the Kraith fans. There have always been ST fans, even way back before Kraith was first written, who were virulantly pro one and anti the other. It didn't make anymore sense in ST fandom than such a thing makes in SW fandom now. My question even back then was why do you have to hate one to prove that you like the other? No sense to that at all.

• more on Kraith and current fan feuds:

  Like many people now involved in SW, I was involved in Trek random during the heyday of Kraith. I didn't agree with the premise either, but the philosophy was very persuasive. A majority of people (at least those who wrote for the zines I was reading) were writing either partially or totally in that alternate universe. Yes, they were at least as dogmatic as some of today's SW splinter groups. Disagreeing was like bashing your head against the proverbial stone wall. To be quite honest, some of the recent letterwars. remind me quite strongly of the atmosphere around Kraith, with their insistence on "you believe in the way I see these people or you're wrong." It's a shame, but that sort of lack of tolerance seems to be fairly common in all fandoms. (Mote the recent discussions of Norman Spinrad's attitudes towards fans.) I gafiated for a brief period in the early 80's and when I returned I was concentrating on SW and Raiders, so I couldn't swear as to whether or not this elitism is still going on. My opinion is, though, that it probably still has 'ts adher ants. I can't see its having totally died away, since it was as strong in its time as K/S has been more recently.

• a fan takes another to task:

  As for your charge of INCEST...WAIT A MINUTE! The film I saw was rated PG! Frankly, I don't understand how you can consider a simple, innocent kiss to be the equivalent of incest, but again, if you INSIST that it is, I'd like to remind you that it was Leia who kissed Luke several times, not the other way around. If you are referring to fan fiction incest stories, I've read three, and I know that at least two of the three authors of those stories are known as Han fans, not Luke fans. (I am unfamiliar with the third.)

• a fan writes:

  The most common overall description of the SW saga has been that of an onion. May I suggest another? SW is a Rubic's Cube. But George has moved several of the components around so that, no matter how we wildly twist at this thing, we will never be able to 'solve' it.

• a fan writes:

  I like Han... but I've always craved his pilot's seat, not his bed.

Issue 10 (December 1985)

cover issue #10

• online here
• contains 82 pages
• Race Relations in the SW Universe by Sandra Necchi, essay
• Luke's Responsibilities by Sandi Jones, essay
• "An Interview with Dale Pollack" transcribed by Linda Deneroff (very lengthy transcript from the radio, recorded June 11, 1983, KPFK Los Angeles)
• a word find puzzle by Linda Vandiver
• a fan who is helping type up the proposed zine "Perfect Fusion" says that it was being "sold completely by preorder up to 200 copies. Almost 150 copies are presold already." This zine was never published.
• Question Authority by Jeanine Hennig, Samia Martz, and Mary Urhausen, an essay that starts with the line, "Lucasfilm doesn't give a damn for its fans."
• book review by Maggie Nowakowska of "In a Faraway Galaxy, a Literary Approach to a Film Series" (pro book), review reprinted from Universal Translator #26
• review of Time Warp #6/7, see that page
• art by Sandi Jones, Danaline Bryant, Carol Peters and Ronda Henderson
• a new fan writes:

  I was surprised to see this raging controversy over Luke/Han supremacy! (Last controversial thing I knew about was the big flap with LFL about the "Slow Boat to Bespin" incident! Shows how long I've been out of it!) I- think that the whole matter has gotten out of hand and escalated into pure silliness. It's like having two people declare, "I like hot fudge sundaes." and then all but come to blows over whether it is the hot fudge or the vanilia ice cream that "makes" the sundae! (Ah you say, but who is the ice cream? I hear stirrings from the whipped cream and nuts factions, too...) But, seriously, folks, isn't enough enough? I am and always have been a fan of the trilogy I like the characters and situations created by George Lucas. All the characters! It's the interplay of personalities and action that "makes" SW for me not exclusive devotion to just one of the characters.

• a fan remembers Jundland Wastes and the letters there about Han Solo:

  Maybe "virulent anti Han Letters" in JW was going a bit overboard, but those were the days when Han was thought of by some as a redneck truck driver with the brains of a wombat, a sex drive that would kill 20 normal men, the ability to drink the entire population of Milwaukee under the table and a selfishness to rival the greediest financier. There was absolutely no proof of this, but some folks insisted on taking this for granted. And, while I've always felt that they were entitled to their opinion, I didn't like having that opinion forced on me anymore then than I enjoy the same with similar degrading opinions of Luke now.... You're right about a lot of my memories of the anti-Han feelings of yore coming not just from letterzines but from personal letters and conversation, as well. I'll have to check over my copies of ALDERAAN to make sure I'm not allowing my memories of the earliest SW days to be skewed by current events, too. That would be going back way before JUNDLAND WASTES!

• a fan writes of fan wish fulfillment and disappointment:

  Your comment about a lot of writers trying to turn Han into Luke is a very true one. Not only is his hair golden, but he is a Jedi as well! Like you, I enjoy some stories about Han as a Jedi (he's an esper in my universe). but that doesn't mean that this is how I see him in the movies. There is a very thin line between wishful fantasizing and True Believing. It's all too easy to cross that line when a fan's hopes for her favorite character have been dashed (as [M K] so brilliantly points out) and that fan lets her anger take over. It's a lot more fun and a lot more peaceful to simply patch up that kind of disappointment by writing the story the way you want to satisfy yourself. Or simply make it up in your own mind, if you don't write. But remember that this is the way that you want it, not Uncle George.

• regarding the difference between sf zines and media zines:

  ...a lot of [sf] zines are small-circu ation productions, often used as a way for people to keep in touch over long distances in lieu of regular meeting opportunities. And many zines are the primary fanac for their producers/readers there's a subgroup even at cons of zine fandom that seems to be interested primarily in zines rather than in even reading sf. They don't get the notice that media fen do because this kind of zine fandom has been around almost from the beginning, and they don't EVER make themselves noticeable by wearing media oriented costumes. As for publishing fiction in fanzines. I think it's great as a training ground for those who really do have talent that needs to be developed; and for those of us who either don't have the necessary talent to write really well or who simply aren't interested in pro publishing, the media zines are idea for outlets for what creativity we do possess. Besides, they're fun. And Force knows everybody needs a chance at some egoboo occasionally!

• a fan has been encouraged in her creativity:

  Thank .you for your encouraging words to neophyte zine contributors. As a newcomer to fandom. I was a bit hesitant to submit my work for fear that the "regulars" had things all sewn up and that there was no place for new blood. Well, after my first rejection and then having the same piece accepted by another editor, I was given heart and have submitted many other things (including the article that appears in this issue of SE, along with some of my drawings). I am also very happy to be having a story coming out in the next Issue of TREMOR and hope to become a regular contributor and LoCer. I would encourage anyone out there who had a story, poem, drawing or article rumbling around in the back of their minds to take pen in hand, get it on paper, and submit it. Believe me, you don't have to be a trained writer or artist to submit something. I haven't written anything more exciting than a grocery list since college and find that I am able to produce something passable. I was an art major in college but haven't done much drawing in a few years and then when I got involved in fandom. I started drawing again and was amazed at what I was able to produce after a few weeks of getting back in the swing of things. I'm even sculpting again...

• a fan addresses another's comments on droid rights:

  As someone who has apparently failed your Moral Litmus Test, I must take exception to your insinuation that I. too, would condone genocide, apartheid and slavery. Just because I believe droids are lesser than humans does not mean I am a racist, bigot or prejudiced. To put someone who disagree; with you on the subject of droid/human inferiority/ superiority in the same class as Hitler is an insult and a degrading of a person's morality that is not called for in the pages of a letterzine.

• regarding the subject of incest:

  I want to play devil's advocate about the entire subject. (I realize I'm now about to descend to the ninth and last circle of hell in some people's opinion, but I've always been able to cope reasonably well with cold...) It is true that all human cultures have condemned incest. However, they haven't all defined it the same way. In some cultures -- ancient Egyptian, for instance brother/sister mating was not only not condemned, it was recommended (among the later Egyptians, it was mandatory in the royal family to concentrate the godly essence). In several mythologies, the original gods were created as brother/sister mates, and from these "incestuous" unions sprang all the other gods; examples are Sumarian. Egyptian and Japanese mythologies. About the only relationship that has been universally considered incest and condemned is parent/child. possibly because of the element of coercion involved and possibly because it disturbs the natural hierarchy. In relation to SW, of course, it's permission to apply contemporary Western standards, because it was made primarily for a contemporary Western audience, and secondarily for a contemporary Eastern audience that no longer shares its ancestors' beliefs about brother/sister mating. No matter how one argued that not all cultures condemned what we consider incest, Lucas could not have made a movie that contained overt or strongly covert incest between a brother and sister. That's simply pragmatism. But I do think it's worth pointing out that our definitions of incest are not the only ones there are, and brother/sister incest in particular has been practiced or tolerated by other societies.

• a fan comments about the first Star Wars zines published, though she doesn't mention Hyper Space:

  AGAINST THE SITH came out a few weeks before SKYWALKER, no more than six. Neither was the first SW fanzine, exactly. The very first fanzine was a small, poorly produced effort out of Long Beach, called THE FORCE; it was more like a traditional 5F fanzine in that it didn't have much fiction. It was also what is bluntly called in SF fandom, a crudzine. The first fanzine to print all SW fiction, though admittedly as a single issue of a fanzine that was not devoted to SW to the exclusion of all else, was MOONBEAM 3, which came out in the late fall of 1977 or the early spring of 1978 before either AGAINST THE SITH or SKYWALKER, at any rate. SKYWALKER was certainly in preparation by then, however, it began in September, 1977.

• a male fan is frustrated:

  I'm not really sure there is any point in discussing the male/female ratio in random. I know I don't want to talk about it anymore, and I was the one who suggested the "Men in Media Fandom" panel way back at MediaWest II. At first, I was curious about the disparity, but now the subject makes me feel like I'm some sort of anomaly, a curiosity, a social mutant. I've been to four MediaWests so far and it still seems like everyone knows everyone else, except me. I think about this and I remember Pat Nussman's article of a few years back, "Where the Boys Are." One of the woman quoted in that article liked the imbalance. She seemed to see media fandom as some sort of feminist enclave and she really didn't want men around. I have enough trouble socializing with any group of people without having to worry about breaking into fandom's "Old Girl Network." I have half an inclination to pull a "Tootsie" and attend the next Mediawest In drag, and then publish the resulting expose in this letterzine. But I'd make an ugly woman, anyway. After saying that I don't want to be known primarily as a male fan, I'm going to risk seeming hypocritical and say that I'd love to contribute to an all-male fanzine. Such a project might dig out some of my counterparts and it would certainly produce a zine with a different slant. On the other hand, you might find out that we're not all that different from you womenfolk, after all. I'd thought about such a zine years ago, but I couldn't think of who to nominate for editor; it wouldn't do to have a woman edit an "all male" fanzine. Truth in advertising, and all.

• a fan writes about another letterzines and what he feels is censorship:

  After I found out that Joan Shumsky had kicked Sandra Neechi out of SCOUNDREL for apparently political reasons, I wrote a strong protest into my Loc for SCOUNDREL #7. Joan printed everything I wrote except those comments dealing with her treatment of Neechi. Everything I have seen indicates that she doesn't want it widely known what she has done. Her editorial in #7 was extremely hypocritical. Since Joan Shumsky will not allow her actions to bare close scrutiny within her own letterzine, then I have no choice but to mention it in another letterzine. In the "Consumer's Corner" of various letterzines, fanzine editors/publishers are called to account for their actions. Are letterzine edi tors any less accountable? Indeed. I object to anyone who thinks they can play games with one of the most important tools of fannish communications. ({Editor's note: In his letter to SE#9, Tim had brought up this same subject in a paragraph that I chose to delete because I felt Tim's phrasing of it that time read too much like a personal attack. Tim wrote privately, taking me to task for cutting the paragraph from his letter, but I still feel that it would have been unethical of me to print that particular paragraph, in the way it was phrased. I apologize to Tim for not discussing it with him at the time and can only plead illness and a schedule that has not permitted private correspondence for the last few months. By the time this sees print, Tim and I should have discussed it in private.))

• more on the recent flap of perceived censorship and another letterzine:

  I disagree with the idea that mentioning another letterzine in SE is wrong. At least not in this case. First off, no names were mentioned. Secondly, I think the public has a right to know about an injustice in such magnitude to a fellow fan. Since when does threatening to ban a person for his political viewpoints make sense in an open forum? And then to actually do so after this threat was mentioned in SE? Should an editor be allowed to censor for these reasons? Well, she may be able to do so, but I'll be damned if it can't be mentioned. This smacks of McCarthyism and I think the public should be made aware of it.

• a fan is worried about the future of fandom:

  One subject I feel needs to be discussed in the letterzines is the future of fanzines. I found a letter of [P M] in SHADOWSTAR #18 upsetting. She has written a series of stories about the fall of Anakin Skywalker that have been published in several zines, but she is so demoralized by the lack of any kind of feedback, good or bad, that she isn't writing anymore. If this situation applies to other authors and artists, then something needs to be done. Letters to the editors and writers would undoubtedly help, but from a practical point of view there are limits to how many letters one person can write. Thus, I was pleased to notice [M U's] recomnendation of [L S's] "Command Performance" in SOUTHERN KNIGHTS #1 and Maggie Nowakowska's mention of Ellen Randolph's A NEW CHALLENGE. As SW fans, we need to encourage writers because without them, there will be no fanzines. I hope we could use SE as a forum to compliment writers and artists. Nothing excessive, but if we find a story we particularly like, then mention it in our letters. I don't think it should be the place to criticize, just recommend. SE reaches a lot of fans and it would be one way to support writers.

• a fan comments on the state of fanfic:

  At More Eastly, there was a panel on post Jedi fiction and the consensus was that there was no lack of interest or plot possibilities. It seems that we are in a lull between the Old Guard and the New since the sheer number of fanzines scheduled for publication is down from the post Empire heights. Several editors discussed the expense of publishing a zine, and the market for SW as opposed to ST zines. And writers and artists of my acquaintance complain about the lack of response from editors and readers- As a purchaser, I gripe about the endless delays and the SASE's that seem to vanish into the void. It is obviously a problem of communication, a problem that discussion might solve. But I feel that the frustration level from editors,readers and writers is growing, and it might make life easier for all of us if we started working on these problems.

• more on fanfic:

  I have to agree with [M U] about the no plot stories fandom seems to produce an excessive amount of these. On the other hand, fan writers are mostly (to one extent or the other) beginning writers, and I think it's easier to write a "feelings" story than a tightly plotted one. Personally, I think plotting is the hardest part of fiction writing and I'm just starting to feel like I have any kind of grasp on it at all. So. if it's a choice between plotless story and no story at all from a beginner, I'll plow through a few clumsy pieces while the writer is honing her skill. On a related subject, I very much appreciate the references Maggie Nowakowska and a few others made to specific fan stories as examples of some point of discussion. Zineds have contnented on how few LOCs most zines are receiving these days and, as a writer, I see this as a real problem. Since writing fanfic does nothing for the wallet, I think it's fair to say that most of us do it for the feedback which is getting increasingly sparse. The end result is likely to be less feedback, less writing. Letterzines would seem a perfect forum for at least occasional comments on fan stories, since many of the ideas we discuss serve as the basis of pieces of fanfic. I'd definitely like to see more of this.

• a fan comments on sf and media fan conflict:

  This media fen vs. SF fen thing is a crock of @&'tig"!l I had never realized how it was until about a year ago, at a Chicago convention. And then, months later, I ran into a few comnittee members of NASFIC, for which I served as Media Programmer. who were very uppity towards me. I just shrugged it off and did my job, and some of those people came to me at the end of the con and commented on what a nice job I did! I guess they had expected a drooling simple minded individual with Spock ears, a movie T-shirt and buttons plastered over every available surface. (Well, I did wear T shirts!) But the crusader in me likes to think I struck a blow for media fans, since I was obviously unlike what they had envisioned. It was the first time Media Programming had been included in a world con calibre convention. Many were upset about that, for it means we have a voice finally. Yes, people, while there are extremes in EVERY field. I would hazard a guess that most media fen also-gasp!-READ. We can carry on intelligent conversations about the mythos of the planet so-and-so. Wc can adequately run programming and not screw it up like many of the so called "tru" fans! Damn it, folks, how can we survive if we keep HACKING at each other?