Other Times and Places

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Zine
Title: Other Times and Places
Publisher: OTP Press (aka Other Times and Places Press), later agented by Nuthatch in Australia and Kathy Reach in the US
Editor(s): Susan Douglass
Date(s): 1990-1995
Series?:
Medium: print
Size:
Genre:
Fandom: The Professionals
Language: English
External Links:
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Other Times and Places is a slash anthology of Professionals AU fiction and poetry.

Submission Guidelines

OTHER TIMES AND PLACES will be a Bodie/Doyle zine, based (perhaps rather loosely) on THE PROFESSIONALS TV show. I an seeking ALL ALTERNATE UNIVERSE stories. By "alternate universes" I mean any sort of "universe" which is different from the given setting of the episodes. This can include fantasy and historical settings, including figures fron US, British, ancient, or any other history (plot and characterization are nore important than strict historical, accuracy), vampires, elves, fairies, any other sorts of magical beings. Our Heroes can travel fron "real time" to these alternate settings; I would prefer that they renain there rather than return, but I will consider anything well-written. I will also consider futuristic, "science fiction" settings. Present-time settings are fine as long as there is something "alternate" about one or both of the characters. Stories such as Bodie being in Africa or Doyle attending art school are also O.K. As far as type of story within the general catagories I've outlined above, I am quite open. Menage a trois, rape, mayhem, murder, death, slave stories are all acceptable as well as "dark" endings (where they don't live happily ever after). I can always use well-written "hurt/comfort" stories. The only type of story which will get an almost automatic rejection would " be a "Gor" type story where one of the partners is raped by the other and learns to fall madly in love with him (I'm not too worried about receiving stories like this in B/D fandon as I am in some other fandoms). Please be cautious in your description of violence. On one hand, you don't have to pull punches. On the other hand, don't wallow in violence for violence's sake — only use it if it's an integral part of the plot. When describing what horrible things happen to Our Heroes, leave at least a little of it to the imagination; it's a bit nore chilling that way. Oh, and one other type of story which will merit an almost automatic rejection is where Our Heroes have been painted into a corner. Then they wake up — and it turns out that it ALL has been a dream (ARRRRGHM).

Even though the above sounds rather "heavy," I can always use stories and/or cartoons with a humorous touch, as long as it follows the general "alternate universe" theme of the zine. Poetry is also welcone, either humorous or serious. Please submit poetry in batches of at least three short poems (or one long, epic poen) for full "paynent" (see below). DEADLINE: I would like to see if I can get this zine out by MediaWestCon, 1990. So I am setting a tentative deadline of APRIL 15. 1990. But the sooner the better, particularly if you want your story illustrated. Please send a SASE with your story or poems (please don't send conputer disks, I don't have the capability to print it out).

I would appreciate it VERY much if you would type or print out your story or poems CAMERA READY, that is either single space or single space with double space between paragraphs. THANX! Artists, please contact me. This is strictly an amateur fanzine, so paynent will be in conplimentary copies. [1]

Regarding Subject, Place, and Ownership

The editor writes:
This might sound contradictory to our "stealing" of media characters, specifically two CI5 agents, from a British TV show. But media producers, for the most part, have chosen not to legally pursue fan writers. I suppose they could if they wanted to (George Lucas did). But fantasy/SF writers have shown themselves to be more possessive. I can see their point. How would you writers, who have created A/U's around your Bodie and Doyle characters, react if you found out that another writer was writing in your B/D universe without your permission or input? Perhaps it's because most media settings are the work of myriad people, whereas most written universes (whether media-based or completely original) are the works of single creators. Comments anyone? At any rate, because I want to avoid legal problems with fantasy/SF writers, my all-A/U zine, "Other Times and Places" cannot accept stories placed specifically in a commercially-printed writer's established fantasy/SF setting. Use the writer's universe as a stepping-off place to create an original setting instead. [2]

Issue 1

cover of issue #1, TACS

Other Times and Places 1 was published in 1990 and is 176 pages long. Cover art is by TACS, interior art is by TACS, Adrian Morgan, Pat Cash, Linda Sax, Tamy Vermande, JJ, and Daphne Hamilton.

Info:
All original contents copyright 1990 by OTP Press, all copyrights hereby released to original authors and artists, who keep exclusive rights and whose permission must be given before reproduction of works. (In other words, unauthorized "pirate" copying is prohibited. BUYERS: This zine has half-toned art. Pirated xeroxes will have LOUSY reproductions). This zine contains adult material and will not knowingly be sold to anyone under 18 years. OTHER TIMES AND PLACES is an amateur publication and no infringement of copyrights are intended.
The editorial:

Welcome to the first issue of OTHER TIMES AND PLACES. I was so gratified by the response that I am already planning a second issue, most likely for next year (SASE for guidelines). It's amazing how an English detective show can inspire such a variation of scenes and settingsI This zine is dedicated to the principal of fantasy/ SF and "alternate universes." Most of these stories feature characters based (perhaps rather loosely) on Bodie and Doyle, rather than strict renditions of them in their original setting (I've already told people that Raimond is Ray Doyle's 13th cousin, 20 times removed). I also like to think that these stories contain a minimum of violence, none that is gratuitous — and a maximum of romance, characterization, and compelling plots. WARNING: This zine contains some stories of utterly slushy, weepy romance and angst. If you can't deal with

this sort of story, then stop right here. But if you're like me and you L-O-O-VE gushing, 4 hanky stories, then read on! LOCS are welcome. Those which contain individual comments, suitable for publication in the next issue, will get the writer a $1 discount. NOTE: Even though there are some part II" stories, each is independent and doesn't require reading the "prequels."

Reactions and Reviews: Issue 1

See reactions and reviews for And Memories Die.
[Stick Figure]: This story is unapologetically romantic. [3]

[zine]:

I quite enjoyed the zine; it was a reasonably representative cross-section of other univeise stories. The notion of a zine devoted to A/Us is wonderful, in fact, and I applaud your putting one out. Comments, such as they are, would that Cat Shannon's story was too short; THE SNOWBIRD was a rehash of a similar theme in THE HUNTING although, as usual, compellingly written; Stew's 'Jane Austen' was also too short — I loved the mannered execution and gentle tone throughout; Sue-Anne's STICK FIGURE was more than a little deus-ex-machina than I care for, but readable for all that; and your own story was angst-rldden and wrenching, but ultimately satisfying at the end. TACS' cover art beautifully complimented it — hm. The interior artwork by TACS, Daphne, Adrian and Pat Cash was uniformly attractive and well-produced. [4]
Hi...how is everything? At last! OTHER TIMES AND PLACES arrived just a few days ago, and I did enjoy the whole zine. Very nicely done! Your story was very sweet, as I expected it would be. Raimond suffers so beautifully! I confess. I'd like to see a vengeance-hunting, where the people who mutilated him are made to pay up in spades! Sue-Anne's story was also intriguing, and the Robin Hood piece was lovely opener, too. Altogether, very nicely put together. [5]

Great zine...great cover..I give it **** overall (I always wanted to rate something with "stars").

Story comments:

GREEN EYES—this made for a very nice change of pace. I've read other "Philip Mark" stories with Doyle-clones as his partner, hut never one where the "Doyle-surrogate" was actually Robin Hood. I loved the idea of Philip Mark being a lot more "human" than what we saw on the Robin Hood series, and also him becoming a "double agent", helping Robin and his men, etc. The love scenes were great and I'm a sucker for "happy endings", too.

AND MEMORIES DIE, part 2— I loved the first part in the zine, WALKING IN THE MOONLIGHT, YOU AND I, but this was even better. Good, involving plot, lots of action, perfect pacing and charactertizations...and, most of all, fantastic relationships. For me that's the most important part of any story or "straight". A story could have the best plot in the world, but if it's dry as dust as far as emotions and relationships go, forget it. But this story had it all, mainly the 3-way relationship between Doyle and the two Bodies. Why don't I just go ahead and list everything I liked? For one thing, I was fascinated by "the other Bodie", and the ambivalent feelings he evoked from "Our" two lads. Bodie wanted to kill "the other" at first (and Ray stopped him!) yet Bodie could also feel sympathy for that Bodie's loss and pain, for he already knew that he would kill himself if he lost HIS Ray. Ray, too, should've hated the other Bodies for what he did to hiiif (and was planning to do to him)...again, though, because "the other" was so much like HIS Bodie, and because Ray did understand his pain, Ray couldn't hate him either. Bodie would just naturally feel jealous and insecure because of Ray's interest in the other Bodie, but I was glad that "our" Ray finlly got to understand that feeling, too—after he finally met his own "other self!" I could also understand Ray's need to "go back" to that "other world", to find out more about his other self, and how that Ray had died...even though, once he did meet his other self, and learned the details of his faked death, he was sorry he'd ever wanted to know! I enjoyed the use of that idea from RITUAL CLEANSING as the reason for THAT B&D's big fight, and subsequent break-up, which led to all the other problems. And the differences between the two sets of lovers was compel 1ing...the fact that they'd started right out as lovers, instead of friends, first...and that Doyle putting his Bodie through such hell, making Bodie believe he was dead. "Our" Ray thought that he could never do such a thing, and I agree...I also liked the relationship between Ray and "their" Sarah, and his reaction to meeting "the other Sarah" who was so very different! Ray's eventual meeting with his other self was one of the best and most powerful scenes in the story. The other Doyle immediately, and rather cruelly, put Ray's worst fears into words, about the month he'd spent "playing the tart"!" If Ray was worrying that he was too much like THAT Doyle, though, seeing the way that Doyle so cold-bloodedly shot down "Barry Martin" should've changed his mind for good...another favorite scene was the reunion of "the other" BSD, but even that was chilling...Bodie so close to really running Ray down, and Ray standing still for it. The "warm-fuzzy" came when that Bodie was telling his Ray that he didn't rape Ray's counterpart because "he wasn't MY Ray Doyle." That, of course, turned everything around for them. Perfect! I even enjoyed the irony of our lads' brief "spat", sparked by Bodie's misunderstanding over the lipstick smears he'd found on Doyle

[much snipped]

THE SNOWBIRD—I love all THE HUNTING stories, so I already guessed I'd love this one and I was right. Jane is, in my opinion, one of the best writers in this or any other fandom, and her characters of Raven and Bodie, and their "extended family", are like old friends to me. Again, it's the relationships that provide the magic: Raven and Bodie...Kevin and Raffi...Raffi and Falla...and the combinations thereof. I think of this one as a kind of "coming of age" story for both Falla and Raffi. Falla had to leam that Raffi is human and not all powerful, and that the choice she made could have lost her a lot more than the snowbird. Raffi had to leam that his pride can sometimes get in the way if he lets it, and that it was all right to let Falla see he's only human, and that she has to face death eventually anyway (as the bird might've died). Raven has his pride, too...pushing ahead in weather that can be deadly to elves...since it was for Raffi (his "brother"), and Falla, his daughter, of course he'd do it, just the same as he would if it'd been Bodie lost. I loved the idea of the "double Dashan" (which Falla didn't have to do, but she didn't know that at the time), and what Raven had to do to satisfy HIS Dashan...and, this time, it wasn't any hardship at all! I always love the "other-worldly" scenes with Fennech, especially the love-making.

CONVENTIONS AND CURIOSITY or FEAR AND FERVOUR—this must've been hard to write, just for the style alone, but it really did sound like Jane Austen! I thoroughly enjoyed it. It's no joke that any two male lovers would have had a hell of a time back then (look at what happened to Oscar Wilde), so I especially enjoyed the happy ending.

STICK FIGURE—what utter twaddle! This person has no business even being in this zine. What a sick idea for a story, and what trash it was! (There. I've said it before anyone else could!).

THE SILENT LILY, part 2—I'm starting to really love these two guys. Throughout I kept thinking that Raimond was being much too hard on himself—nothing that happened to him was his fault!! Yet, I wanted to slap Guillaume the first part of the story, too. He searches for years for his love... finally finds him...seems to understand that nothing that happened to Raimond was his fault. Then, after they finally get back home, Guillaume can't understand why Raimond is so depressed and withdrawn and fearful...and then, the worst betrayal of all, Guillaume thinking that Raimond should've resisted, or died fighting, before letting himself be enslaved...and his accusal of Raimond was too much. I only started liking Guillaume again after he told his father he was disowning HIM, after the things the Comte said about Raimond! I felt so sorry for Raimond, trying to make "a new life" for himself, only to iDecomeconvinced he only had "one skill", and immediately falling back into it. As far as Antoine goes, at first I wanted to feel sorry for him and his loneliness, even to like him for what he was doing for Raimond, but he showed his true colors soon enough, too, even before the final, big confrontation. "Good" to Raimond in a lot of ways, but Raimond was only a possession to him, and Antoine was always iDrutal to him in bed. And yet, Raimond stayed...probably out of fear of the unknown. He didn't know what else to do, or where to go. after all. Anyway, of course I loved his reunion and reconciliation with Guillaume, but what I loved even more was Raimond's final growing up, which iDegan with his protecting his wounded lover from Antoine, even threatening"Antoine's life to save Guillaume, No more passivity or shy timidity! This process was continued in the beautiful love scene which ended the story, with Raimond actually taking Guillaume instead of the other way around. They have to be equals, after all, don't they? I loved the idea of Guillaume of being a "sword for hire", and Raimond becoming a talented artist. At least now, he'll be keeping all the money he earns from his paintings, as it should be! I can't wait to see these two again. I didn't mean to slight the poem by not mentioning it earlier. It was lovely and seemed to set the mood for the entire zine. I wouldn't mind seeing this zine become a regular event.[6]
Just a short note to thank you for Other Times and Places which arrived safely and unmolested by customs. I thoroughly enjoyed the zine - stories of an excellent standard (especially And Memories Die) and gorgeous artwork... Please let me know when issue 2 is ready! [7]

I have just finished reading my friend Beth's copy of OTHER TIMES AND PLACES. I loved the zine. I thought it was one of the best Professional zines that I had read in a long time.

I liked the alternate universe Bodie and Doyle and I know that I would like to see more stories about them. I thought that "Silent Lily" was an extremely powerful story. It was very real and very painful. According to Beth there will be more of that universe to come. Is she correct? [8]

Other Times and Places was wonderful; I thoroughly enjoyed it, and I'm looking forward to your next issue. "Snowbird" was my first introduction to The Hunting, and it got me well and truly hooked. In fact, the stories were universally excellent, your own included. Maybe I'll try my own hand at an AAl story one of these days. I do have something in mind...

Keep up the good work. [9]
This isn't a nice printable LOC—just a you-done-good-so-do-it-again stroke for Other Times and Places (and thanl<s for sending it when you did: somebody's little tax deduction is still breathing thanks to you)! Naturally I liked everything, but somebody go NAIL Ellis Ward and use whatever means to get more of the AMD universe stories! I started out hating the alternate characters and now I was to see more of them without "our" B&D and mors of their world. HINT: I'm a Murphy fan, so...(Don't kill him off. I'll put a contract out). [10]

Hi! Just a note to let you know how much I loved "Other Times and Places". The red Raimond/Gui1laume cover is exquisite. So compelling was it. in fact, that I bought it without caring what was inside! but I was not disappointed when I started reading. I love the poem "I Dream You In a Forest Glade" by Cybel Harper. My favorite stories are "The Snowbird" by Jane. This was my introduction to Bodie/Raven and now I am hooked on their lovely romance. Jane's writing is just about the best in PROS fandom (her Zax/Scully 'Magikal' stories are truly wonderful).

Another story I love in your zine is "Convention and Curiosity or Fear and Fervour" by Stew. Jane Austen Lives! What a delightful and highly romantic story. I read that one several times.

The "Silent Lily" universe is believable and lovely. Hope Susan Douglass keeps it going.

I hope you are planning to edit "Other Times and Places II". The overall quality is very high. I wallow in happy endings and B/D A/U romantic stories and poetry.[11]

Thanks for OTP! I really enjoyed it, after its long swim and crawl here! Joking aside, the zine reached me in late July, which isn't too bad.

The cover art was particularly striking—Bodie is magnificent. Every now and then I stop getting surprised at why I fell for him—at moments like first seeing this. As for Doyle in this picture — I've yet to make up my mind. I adore the hair and eyebrows at least! But that Bodie... My two favorite stories were "Green Eyes"—a nicely written tale of passion and resulting impossible situations and the finding of necessary solutions—and "And Memories Die II" — Where can I find Part I? Is there a Part III? I really enjoyed this. Enough drama and suspense to keep me on the edge of my seat. I liked our lads and their counterparts, all the similarities and differences, and their interaction. Glad to hear there's going to be an OTaP2! [12]

Other Times & Places arrived promptly and safely — Thank you! It is a well produced zine with lots and lots of reading—just the kind I like! The illos were good, although the one at the end of the novella reproduced so poorly, at least in my copy, that I could not tell what it as meant to be. Unfortunately it was nothing more than a smear. Too bad, perhaps the medium used did not reproduce well, or maybe I was just unlucky. I don't intend this as a complaint but just to let you know in case you were unaware of the problem.

As for the stories. Snowbird I enjoyed because I am completely hooked on the Hunting universe, and can never get enough. JJ's illos always fit so well with the stories.

Green eyes is only the second Phillip Mark story that I have read and it certainly has an interesting plot twist.

C&C or FScF was a good attempt to write in the Jane Austen style, and an enjoyable story. I do think the author set herself a really tough job as no one but Jane Austen seems to be able to successfully write like Jane Austen.

Stick Figure I liked as far as it went, but I thought that it warranted quite a bit of expansion.

The Silent Lily was a new universe to me as I have not read Pt. 1. While it was well written, it really isn't my type of story, therefore I'm not too objective.

However well written, and all the stories had something to commend them, I'm afraid they somewhat overshadowed by Ellis Ward's magnificent And Memories Die Pt. II. I had read a while back and recently got the prequel from the library. Having read that, I re-read so was well primed to read Pt. II. To start with. I could not put the story down and I was much later to bed that night than I had intended. There were so many plot twists that I couldn't stop reading while I found out how it ended—more! more! The characterizations were excellent. Ellis managed to create two similar, yet obviously different, sets of B&D. I was surprised to note that not once did I lost track of who was who. Without using specific labels, tut just the normal flow of the narrative, Ellis let the individuality of each character, assisted by the occasional word "flag" identify themselves. That is quality writing. In fact, in my opinion, Ellis' writing is at least as good as any professional (pun unintended!) writing. There are only a handful of writers in various fandoms that are as good, and Ellis is way up there. I liked the story so much I find it hard to pick specific points. Even such details as giving Doyle a specific task (paying bills—ugh! how he must hated that!) while he was waiting for Sarah, and for Bodie to come home, were not neglected. Neither does Ellis gets tangled up in lengthy and complicated sentences as I seem to be doing! What more can I say—! Hope Ellis writes more in this universe, or any other universe, come to that. Are there any more Ellis Ward stories out there to be read?[13]

I'm relatively new to Pros fandom (Isn't it amazing how persuasive certain friends can be? Why, I'll get out of Intensive Care any day now, the nurse says). Seriously, I'm enjoying myself a great deal here, and OTHER TIMES AND PLACES is certainly a major part of the reason why.

Lovely, lovely cover! Half-tone is an extremely difficult medium to work in, and anyone who does it so well is certainly to be commended. As a roaring het, I certainly don't disapprove of the opportunity to drool over such lovely hunks! (Pardon me, my hormones are showing...).

Editorial; Appreciate the slush alert. Gave me time to find the Kleenex.

Stories: "Green Eyes"—very nice. Sometimes a double agent has the hardest role of all (especially in Phillip Mark's case—pun intended. Perhaps I should have warned you that I love Sick Bad Puns) .

"And Memories Die Part II" by Ellis Ward was clearly the highlight of the entire zine. Aside from its many other virtues, I loved the side reference to the crippled physicist. Given Hawking's usual range of studies, one could do something with the phrase 'black hole'—but it would be wrong. I enjoyed Ward's ability to keep the alternate characters clear enough so I didn't get lost, though. The bit with the drawings was extremely frightening, as I'm sure it was meant to be. The love scenes were well done and very passionate. Where's more by this person?

The Jane Austen pastiche showed a lot of hard work. Stew clearly immersed herself in Austen's work before writing this, I especially noted the proper sort of Capitalization writers of that Era occasionally Indulged in.

"Stick Figure" was a lovely sniffy story (and wasn't in the least bit wooden, though the narrative simply lumbered on. Perhaps B&D out to become members of a splinter group?

"The Silent Lily, Part II"—My, Raimond certainly suffers well! Antoine deserves what he gets, and then some, Nice to see Raimond protecting Guillaume for a change. Glad to see that Raimond will continue with his art. See you all later![14]
Note to let you know how much I enjoyed OTHER TIMES AND PLACES. Being new to THE PROFESSIONALS fandom, I am reading anything I can get my hands on, and I found OTHER TIMES AND PLACES to be of particluarly high standard. It was a pleasure reading all the stories and poems, but I must admit "Green Eyes" was a particular favorite. [15]

First of all, I very much enjoy A/U stories — as long as the storyline works. within the frame of reference generated by the A/U scenario. I was very pleased to discover that each of the contributors to OTHER TIMES AND PLACES worked immensely well within each universe!

Cybel Harper has to be one of the best free form poets I have ever read (and that included "professionally" published ones). She writes very vibrant picture-poems.

"Green Eyes" is a personal favorite because I've always loved the legend of Robin Hood. I enjoyed seeing Doyle/Hood written as well as he was. While watching the Lewis Collins episode of ROBIN HOOD I found myself looking for "Doyle", and thanks to "Cat," I've found him! (and "Bodie" and "Murphy" also). The characterisations of all 3 displaced Professionals was quirkily accurate and most charming.

And Memories Die, Part II:" I have to admit to being a fan of Ellis Ward, and always look forward quite eagerly to reading anything this author creates. I've never been disappointed in my high expectations, and "Memories", part II is most certainly no exception! Being able to completely and confidently work both sides of a mirror universe is no small task, yet Ellis Ward keeps each of the characters within character — all the time. The finer points of "our" Doyle and Bodie are etched more clearly by the definitive characteristics of the "other" Doyle and Bodie! They are all vaguely similar enough to carry off impersonating their counterparts -- up to a point, as shown by the "other" Bodie s appearance and behavior in the first part of the story. By following the "other" Doyle and Bodie 's behaviors, you become more aware of the nuances of "our" Doyle and Bodie s behavior. You can also see ways both pairs are similar — each will go to great lengths to find their partner. It seems there are strong similarities along with "alternate" characteristics! I particularly enjoyed the realism displayed by the characters -- most especially when "our" Doyle and Bodie confront each other upon their damp return to England -- each has reason to be upset with the other, but they both worked it out in a responsible manner. The respective conclusions are so well-written that it's a real shame this particular story-line will never be see on film!

Of all the universes so far presented featuring Bodie and Doyle (or some facsimile thereof), THE HUNTING ranks among my mosst adored. Therefore it s only logical that "The Snowbird" by Jane (another of fandom's most excellent authors) is a special favorite to me. THE HUNTING'S characters -- Raven, Bodie, Kevin, Raffi, Falcon et al live a life filled with lust (lots of lust!), adventure and great romance. "The Snowbird" exemplifies all that is richest and best in the elven universe — from Bodie 's "strenuous " games in bed with Raven, to the search for Falcon and Raffi, and most splendidly, to the experience at the gate of Avalon and the mysticism of Fennech 's mating -- all combine to create a sparkling jewel of a story!

"Convention and Curiosity" was truly delightful! Stew captures the grace and wit of the era perfectly. Having read enough of Austen's works to satisfy me for several lifetimes, I can readily admit to having a marked preference for Stew's adaptation of bygone times. The playful bantering among the parties is superbly handled — very authentic. The delicate matter of Bodie's "blunder" concerning the young man in the Athens brothel was priceless -- and quite a tasteful way of handling the "/" aspect. I enjoyed the story tremendously.

I happen to be a sucker for fantasy "what if?" stories (like "Silverwing" in FANTAZINE II). so "Stick Figure" very much appealed to me — not the least because the emotions of the characters show through so clearly! The dialogue, the suppressed anger/frustration, the love — all were very true to and for the characters. I'm always ready to suspend reality (as we all do Just by being involved in fandom). and so am willing to believe in the power of love! After all. it s all for fun and fantasy, so why not indulge in a "happily ever after" tale?

The Silent Lily, part II' combines all the elements of so many lust-and-angst ridden historical romance best-sellers, but it's so much better because instead of a hysterical female protagonist vs. a know-it-all male antagonist in another bodice-ripper, we are treated to our two most favorite men! They 're in another universe, true, and acting as anyone would in that other time and place, but they are still fundmentally our guys. 'Iheir relationaship. after all. is what is transferred to another universe. and that (so perfect) love (with a good helping of healthy lust!) does come through in the end -- just as it does in those afore-mentioned but seriously lacking historical novels. I liked "The Silent Lily. " and hope to see many more pieces written in that universe.[16]

Issue 2

front cover of issue #2, TACS.
The editor of this zine writes in January 1991: "Cat Shannon, I want to thank you again for the story you sent me. I've asked TACS to do a pencil drawing of it; it will be the cover story of my second issue." -- from remarks in Short Circuit #4
flyer for issue #2

Other Times and Places 2 was published in 1991 and contains 196 pages. Art: cover by TACS and interior art by Adrian Morgan and Pat Cash.

The editorial:

Welcome to the second issue of OTHER TIMES AND PLACES. Yes, there wil be a 3rd issue; stories have already been received for it. A zine is dedicated to the principle of fantasy/ SF elements and "alternate universes." Most of these stories feature characters based loosely) on Bodie and Doyle, rather than strict renditions of them in their original setting. And also an obligatory "4 HANKY" WARNIING: Like the last issue, this issue contains stories of slushy romance and angst (although bit "spookier" than last time). If you can't deal with this sort of story, then stop right here. But if you're like me and (s-i-i-g-h) L-O-O-V-E gushing love stories, then read on! I did include a couple of 1-page pieces which only hint at "A/U"; these are for a "reality check on our guys as they originally appeared on TV. LOCS are welcome. Those which contain individual comments, suitable for publication in the next issue, will get the writer a $1 discount (please let me know if your LOC was published and you didn't receive your discount).

NOTE: In answer to some questions, "And Memories Die Part I is (I believe) now a "circuit" story. Write the Library the address below. "The Silent Lily" part I is now available in the zine IN THE PUBLIC INTEREST 3.
  • Editorial (2)
  • Love's Dream, poem by Cybel Harper (3)
  • Always, poem by Cybel Harper (3)
  • After the Fire by Cat Shannon ("After the horrors of the Third World War, agents Bodie and Doyle must somehow piece together the remnants of CI5 and their lives.") (4)
  • Earth Spirit, Water Sprite, poem by by Cybel Harper (14)
  • Prince of the Mists by Jane - 43 pages ("An old English countryside. Lieutenant Bodie encounters a young, curly-headed man on the road -- an object of supernatural abuse. A tale of the vampyre.") (15)
  • Caught and Found, and Lord Bodie the Younger, poems by by Jude (58)
  • Legacy of Temptation by Ellis Ward (winner of a 1992 FanQ) ("Ghosts from his past haunt eminent writer Ray Doyle. Can computer technician Bodie help Ray exorcise them?") (60)
  • The Dark Beside the Sea by Susan Douglass - Silent Lily #6, "Raimond/Gullaume" ("NOTE: This vignette takes place a few weeks after the events of THE SILENT LILY, Part II.") (158)
  • Last Night I Dreamed, poem by by Gene Delapenia (160)
  • Opportunities (Let's Make Lots of Money) by Stew - 18 pages ("Can two 'ne'er do wells' make good? Can they find the love they hold for each other?") (161)
  • The Blind Eye by Jean Lamb (179)
  • Sympathetic Magic by Sue-Anne Hartwick ("CI5 agent Ray Doyle is in trouble again. Can Bodie's new-found magic save him?") (180)
  • Reconciliation, poem by by Jude (188)
  • Journal by Gene Delapenia (190)
  • Letters to the Editor (LOCS (191)

Reactions and Reviews: Issue 2

See reactions and reviews for Opportunities (Let's Make Lots of Money).
See reactions and reviews for After the Fire.
See reactions and reviews for Prince of the Mists.
See reactions and reviews for Legacy of Temptation.
[zine]: Ah! A fanzine that does what it promises... from the opening editorial to the closing clip-clops of ghostly horses on Baker Street, this Professionals zine promises and delivers fine love stories in an alternate universe setting. Upon reflection, the general tone of OTAPII is heavy on the supernatural... 'Prince of Mists' represents vampyres, 'Legacy of Temptation' brings in the daemons, and 'Sympathetic Magic' speaks for itself. But don't get the impression that this s all you'll find: a poem by Jude entitled 'Caught and Found' and a wonderful short story by Stew called 'Opportunities' (Let's Make Lots of Money) center on Bodie and Doyle in a criminal setting -- as crims! All works are high quality with sound plotting and wrenching adventures with emphasis on the special nature of the Bodie/Doyle relationship that transcends time and place. Editor Nina Boal is to be congratulated for a top drawer publication. The top drawer is where I keep all those special zines that have the ability to feed the mind as well as the libido. [17]
[zine]:

I really enjoyed OTS 2. (Ellis Ward's story "Legacy of Temptation" was a wonderful story—the characters were so round and full. And the story plot was fabulous).

I thought "Prince of the Mists" was a nice variation to the usual B/D vampire theme, by not making them vampires, there was a lot more scope for the characters, I felt, and Jane's imagery was gorgeous (loved the image of Doyle as the actor after the performance of Romeo and Juliet). It seemed so casual and yet, very special.

And I loved Stew's story, "Opportunities". The idea of Ray Doyle, the 'nice' crooked guy who takes up 'Saint Bodie' is very cute. And the big jealousy scene, loved it. (I must admit, I've never heard the Pet Shop Boys song, so I don't know the exact reference to it in the story).

"Sympathetic Magic" was a gorgeous piece, very sweet and sentimental and I loved it. And the story by Susan Douglass from the Silent Lily Universe was beautiful. The pain and frustration that both Raimond and Guillaume feel in not being able to relieve memories for each other is so gorgeous and believable and always, very moving.[18]
[zine]:

I have been meaning to write you about (OTHER TIMES AND PLACES II for some time. First of all I want you to know that I really enjoyed all of the stories in the zine, and there are very few zines that I can say that about.

I was disappointed that the "Silent Lily" story was not longer, that is one of the most interesting alternative universes that has been created in a long time and I would like to see/read some more really long stories in that reality.

I thought that "After the Fire" was a good first story but what happens next???

Bodie the unwilling exorcist was outstanding in "Legacy of Temptation". I would kill to read more adventures, how about Bodie saving Murph?? Please let Ellis Ward know that everyone who reads the story, even non-Pro's fans loved it and would like to see more. Since magic exists unusual things could come crawling out of the woodwork both bad and good. Jane as usual has written a good story about a bad vampire instead of her usual good ones, an interesting change and one that read beautifully.

This is one of the best Pro's zines around and I have recommended it to everyone. I look forward to your next production, and please keep the magic in your zine.[19]
[zine]:

I hope you're proud of yourself, Nina—this issue is even better than the last. The art was all magnificent, though I have to say my favorite was TACS' Bodie on page 3A—deceptive, simple, and striking, like the man himself. Knew I loved him for a reason.

I enjoyed all the poetry, which is unusual for a pleb like me. My favorites this time were Jude's—both were charming.

My favorite stories were... After the Fire by Cat Shannon was a good read, with an interesting and believable look into a bleak future.

Prince of the Mists by Jane was another good read—this zine was real feet up by the fine material—I loved Bodie in this. Just as well has humility as well as charm and integrity!

Once again, Ellis Ward provided the centerpiece of the zine. this time with Legacy of Temptation. This one had me on the edge of my seat, and genuinely scared at times. Another author who writes Bodie well, too! The story seemed very realized to me, partly because of all the wrong assumptions, false trails and forgotten details along the line—these guys are human, after all. An excellent and involved storyline, superbly realised. Well done!

Of course, the LoCs were interesting to read. It's always great to get constructive feedback.

Best of luck for OTP3.[20]
[zine]:

Thank you for the best zine I brought back from Media West! I fell in love with the gorgeous cover of Ray, which was worthy of framing. Cybel Harpel's poetry, especially ALWAYS and LOVE'S DREAMS, were, as usual, exquisite, and reaffirms the "Bodie/Ray" spirit in so many A/U's. Her poetry is always the first thing I read.

Jane's PRINCE OF THE MISTS was excellent. It was impossible to put down. Very romantic and evocative of a gothic horror story from the Victorian Age.

Susan Douglass' THE DARK BESIDE THE SEA is my favorite from her "Silent Lily" series. It was strange and moody, quite a lovely psychological study of an artist seeking to express himself through love and art. I read this one several times. The images are so beautiful.

Gene Delaplenia's "LAST NIGHT I DREAMED" was wonderful. A modem day Ray dreams of a life he lived in an ancient world, and of a love he can't forget, a Roman soldier then, his partner r now. Excellent writing! This article zine is filled with excellent writing!

Ellis Ward's LEGACY OF TEMPTATION was scary as being locked in a dark cellar overnight. Not only couldn't I put it down, I couldn't sleep. Dreamed about that horrible potato cellar! And once I was reading after 9:00 p.m., until I realized it was that dreaded time! Horrors. Lovely and believable B/D romance, too, but I wanted to be there for Ray's birthday present! Was rather looking forward to that.

Cat Shannon's AFTER THE FIRE was very good. I think it would make a wonderful new Universe. It cries for a sequel. I loved Bodie locking for and finding Ray.

Loved Jude's RECONCILIATION. A very good CIS porn. Sue-Anne Hartwick's SYMPATHETIC MAGIC was very good. I've loved her poetry for years. Only thing is I wanted this story to be longer! Very interesting about the African magic.

Jean Lamb's THE BLIND EYE was an excellent thought piece. I especially liked Cowley in this very much and his reflection on England's gay heroes.

Stew's OPPORTUNITIES was excellent. It was a "learning to love and trust" story that I've read several times now. Bodie is a good guy who with love and persistence breaks down Ray's barriers to find a friend and lover.

Loved the artwork. Especially Raimond (p. 159) (goes beautifully with Susan's story). Loved Adrian Morgan's Bodie and Ray very much (p. 189). This gentle, lovely portrait of Ray is one of the most beautiful I've ever seen. Loved also Adrian's Bodie on p. 187 and Ray (p.162). [21]
[zine]:

OTAP#2— Tacs' front cover is beautiful, in fact I like all her artwork. Loved the Adrian Morgan picture opposite by poem - Reconciliation. Doyle locks beautifully fey and Bodie beautifully butch.

Favourite story of the whole zine, has to be Ellis Ward's - Legacy of Temptation. It's a wonderful piece of writing, a gripping read.

Stew's - Opportunities, also hit the spot. I like her Bodie, a Bodie who needs to be needed. Her Doyle is also interesting. After the Fire, is another one. I like its survival theme. Altogether I enjoyed reading CTAP#2 very much. [22]
[zine]:

Thank you for Other Times & Places II which came so promptly I could hardly believe my eyes. Congratulations on yet another excellent job.

I'll save the best till last, but of the shorter stories I especially enjoyed Cat Shannon's After The Fire. I found I became quite involved with the l)ackground of the story and I would have liked it to continue, especially as I thought Doyle's problems were solved just a little too easily.

Sue-Ann Hartwick's Sympathetic Magic was another enjoyable piece. It seemed very much in Bodie's character to use any means to keep Doyle safe.

In Opportunities, the basic characters of Doyle and Bodie seemed to be switched, and I wondered if that was Stew's intention.

As always, Jane's Prince of the Mists is a well written story. However, I am not particularly keen on vampire stories, especially the darker ones.

Of the vignettes I really enjoyed the three perspectives in Jean Lamb's Blind Eye.

I don't mean to ignore the poetry writers but I know so little about the subject I really don't feel able to comment.

There was some excellent art in this issue. Of special note were Adrian Morgan's Doyle, Bodie and Doyle & Bodie vrfiich were super and of course, the cover by TACS.

Now for my favourite. I will buy any zine will an Ellis Ward B/D story in it! Her stories just get better and better. Legacy of Temptration proved almost impossible to put down. First I could not wait to find out if this was a straight mystery or involved the supernatural. Then, when it became clear on that point, I couldn't wait to find out what happened next. The relationship, vrtiile secondary to the main story was handled very well and quite realistically.

While I realise that every i cannot be dotted nor every t be crossed, there are two small points that I felt were left hanging. Bodie initially refused to help Doyle because of the repercussions of helping someone else and I feel we needed to know more specifically what had gone wrong. Tie into that, how did Bodie. a declared atheist, meet and become friendly with Father Keegan in the first place?[23]
[zine]: Done it again. "Other Times and Places II" was terrific. I particularly enjoyed "Sympathetic Magic" and "Legacy of Temptation" and would appreciate it if you would pass on my thanks for such great stories to Sue-Anne Hartwick and Ellis Ward.[24]
[zine]:

I've been meaning to write this note for four months. (Just call me the Great Procrastinator). I'd like to know if Other Times and Places #1 is still available in any form - even Xerox, as long as the words are readable. I'd also like to know if or when OTSP #3 is ready. I've enclosed two SASE's.

"Legacy of Temptation" (in OI&P #2) is my all-time favorite A/U B&D story. It's close to

being my favorite, period - if it weren't A/U. it would be. (But of course if it weren't A/U, it wouldn't be the same story.) I thought that the rest of the zine ranged from the acceptable to the very good. Keep it up.[25]
[zine]:

Cybel Harper's poems were lovely, as always — don t ask me to choose a favourite, I couldn't, all touched something in me!

AFTER THE FIRE was immediately evocative, catching the

imagination, and making surprisingly good use of page-space, in so brief a story. Reminded me of THE UNBROKEN THREAD. Actually, this theme deserves looking at in much, much greater depth! There's a lot of power to be examined, and the stories that have touched on it so far have done so in great brevity. PRINCE OF THE MISTS.'. .modesty precludes me from commenting on this! [she is the author, Jane]. ..THE DARK BY THE SEA was short and sweet, very nice, a fitting epilogue to THE SILENT LILY. I enjoyed this a lot — how nice to have a totally, romantic interlude! Very nicely done! Sue Anne's SYMPATHETIC MAGIC was delightful too, quirky and thought provoking: magic of any kind has always attracted me, and I wish I knew more about African forms. Ju-ju, is it? The basis of Voodoo, which is what it became when it was taken to the Caribbean? Interesting piece, this! Nicely told, too, with Sue-Anne's aplomb for getting under the skin of her characters.[26]
[zine]:

AH! A fanzine that does what it promises...from the opening editorial to the closing clip clops of ghostly heroes on Baker Street, you promised and delivered fine B&D love stories in an alternate universe setting. Upon reflection, the general tone of OTPII is heavy on the supernatural...Prince of the Mists by Jane represents the vampyres, Ellis Ward's Legacy of Temptation brings in the demons and Sympathetic Magic by Sue-Anne Hartwick speaks for itself. Normally, I'm not easily entertained by ghosts and goblins, but these stories kept me riveted! The poem by Jude entitled Caught and Found and that wonderful short story by Stew called Opportunities (Let's Make Lots of Money) engagingly brought to life the Bodie and Doyle partnership in a criminal setting—as crims! Yeah!

It is impossible to mention every one of the talented writers represented, but I thought all works to be high quality with sound plotting and wrenching adventures. Combined with the emphasis on the special nature of the Bodie/Doyle relationship that transcends time and place and your fine affordable presentation, I feel any Pro's fan will get their money's worth out of OTPII!

The Editor is to be congratulated for a 'top drawer' publication (the top drawer is where I keep those special zines that have the ability to feed the mind as well as the libido).[27]
[zine]:

Ah, another glorious Bodie & Doyle slushzine! (Gorgeous cover—and I'd kill for the cover original as a color oil. Slobber, drool...

Um, yes, the stories. "After the Fire" by (Cat Shannon was excellent and far too short. Surely this was only Chapter One of the novel version? You can't just leave us like that! (Also, I must admit I keep have this major impulse to matchmake for Cowley.) The hurt/comfort... the extremely sensual (though rather brief) love scene...sigh. Want more!

"Prince of the Mists" was a lovely vampire story, with lots of suffering, angst and mood. Wouldn't miss a moment of it! You know me—if it's morbid and slushy, you know I'll like it!

"Legacy of Temptation" by Ellis Ward was up to her usual standards—marvelous. I am insanely jealous of her talent, her skill at drawing both Bodie and Doyle, and her laser printer. This was delightfully creepy. I have occasionally snarked at a few people for stories which I've considered a love scene in search of a plot, but such is never the case with Ward. This is a great novella. I don't know why some professional publishing company hasn't snapped her up yet, but as long as she wants to write about a couple of Pros, I'll read it!

"The Dark by the Sea" " by Susan Douglass is another look at the Silent Lily universe, which is always enjoyable.

Opportunities" by Stew was uterly delightful. As a rabid Pet Shop Boys fan, I have no trouble whatsoever seeing Our Favorite Pair up to their collective eyebrows in trouble, should they have taken a different turning in their lives. (Wonder how Cowley would make out as a new Napoleon of Crime—no, let's not give him any ideas, shall we?) Both of them are bats, of course—and I wouldn't have them any other way.

"Sympathetic Magic" by Sue-Anne Hartwick was massively demented, and I loved it. I can just see Bodie picking up the odd tip or two from the local witch doctor. His overprotectiveness is certainly in character (as is Doyle's ability to suffer convincingly ("Sorry, he can't come to the phone—he's all tied up).

"Journal" was a quick nifty glimpse as a London that never was—or was it? Ihis brief view of the stately Holmes of England was fun to read.

Liked the letters, too! See you all next time![28]

Issue 3

cover of issue #3, TACS

Other Times and Places 3 was published in 1992 and contains 276 pages. The cover art is by TACS and the interior art is by TACS, Cat Anesto, Baravan, Adrian Morgan, Janet Cruickshank, Nola Frame-Gray, and Jane Mailander.

the original artwork for this cover, dated 1986, 18 inches x 22 inches framed

Reactions and Reviews: Issue 3

[Broadcast Difficulties]: This is the sequel to Echo. My last rec. Why read this? For the sfang, of course! What becomes of the cute, ferocious critter. . . . oh, did I mention they are being chased by Cowley. This is another chance to become lost in this universe. Oh, more Bodie and Doyle as well - I never get tired of Bodie and Doyle!. Now come on, indulge me... [29]

1997 - [zine]: I'm relatively new to Professionals fandom. When I began reading the wide selection of Pros zines and stories, I quickly discovered a genre not generally explored in my previous randoms: the alternate universe. It seems that no matter what your taste or particular view of The Lads might be, there is a Bodie and Doyle for you out there, somewhere. From the hard boys of England's CI5 to forest-loving elves, to pirates, to ancient Celts, to artists and writers, teachers and blacksmiths, soldiers and concert pianists, W.A.P. Bodie and Raymond Doyle live and love in every form and time imaginable. It's a genre I've quickly grown to love.

While you will find alternate universe stories sprinkled throughout various zines, there is one series of zines dedicated to this particular classification. Other Times and Places, to quote editor Nina Boal, features "concepts which travel to the outer limits and beyond, within the realms of imagination." I've chosen one zine in this series (purely personal preference) to discuss.

Other Times and Places III is a hefty zine (152,800 words) containing offerings by three of my favorite Bodie/Doyle authors: Jane, Ellis Ward, and Jane Mailander. These three are all experienced writers and superb storytellers. Between them, their tales take up slightly more than half this zine. This, to me, is a recommendation in itself.

Jane's offering is "Strangers on the Shore," one of the sweeping historical romances she does so well. In this one, set in the days when steamers were just beginning to compete with the great sailing ships, Bodie is a sailing ship captain, while Doyle is the son and heir of an ailing shipbuilder who is rapidly running his business into the ground. The relationship is already in place between the two men, and the story revolves around how they deal with their illicit love, set against the backdrop of the nineteenth century shipping industry. The author does her usual commendable job of weaving a tapestry of sights and sounds in whatever time frame she chooses in which to set a story. There's romance, intrigue, angst a-plenty, and—at last—a happy ending. Tacs' bold, spare illustrations—her style always seems to capture Bodie and Doyle to perfection—truly illustrate the story. My only complaint here is that there weren't more; both Lads look simply smashing in nineteenth century clothing! As for the story, it's simple: if you like Jane's style and storytelling flair, you'll enjoy "Strangers on the Shore."

"Broadcast Difficulties," by Ellis Ward, is the sequel to a story called "Echo," which appeared in Chalk and Cheese 07. (It's worth picking up a copy of C&C 7 to get the first story and read about how the two characters in this universe get together.) In Ward's delightful tale, Bodie is a human captain of his own space freighter, the Behemoth, and Doyle is a Vauxan, a species that is empathic. "Echos," the first story, told how they crossed paths, fell in love, and were bonded. "Broadcast Difficulties*' continues the saga as Bodie and Doyle, with their resident pet, Asper, go about their business of hauling cargo. Asper is a sfang, a fascinating little creature, also empathic, who plays an integral part in both stories. To go into too much detail would spoil the fun, and there's plenty of fun in this story. Ward is, quite simply, an excellent writer, and this story is yet one more example of her talent.

Jane Mailander's contribution is "Beau and the Beast," based on the fairy tale. (Perhaps more accurately, the author herself credits Jean Cocteau's film, La Belle et le Bete, for the premise and inspiration.) Mailander has a real flair for taking an established and recognizable plot and giving it her own special Bodie and Doyle twist. It's not a matter of replacing characters in a story with a dark-haired, blue-eyed man and a curly-headed bloke with green eyes and calling it an alternate universe. She takes their personalities and merges them with the characters so smoothly that you never see any seams. This story has the feel of a fairy tale throughout, all the way to the enchantingly happy ending.

And there's more in OTP 3, including (but not limited to): a crossover with Upstairs, Downstairs (making use of Gordon Jackson's role in that miniseries—he was also Controller of CI5 in The Professionals); an appearance by Phillip Mark of Robin of Sherwood fame; a story set in the Bladerunner universe (with particularly effective illos by Pat Cash); and a lovely little fantasy piece in which Bodie crosses paths—again—with Death (but with a thankfully happy ending).

I consider OTP 3 a 'no-frills' zine. There is sparse anwork (some of it very good, some of it not), and the stories are all set in different typefaces, giving some a slick, professional look, while others suffer from poor formatting and obviously penned-in corrections. But I'm one of those fans who don't need all the bells and whistles in a zine. I appreciate them if they're there, but they're not essential. Just give me good, solid stories, and make me believe I'm hearing the characters (not always that easy in alternate universe tales) and I'll cheerfully hand over my money for the experience. Several of the stories in this zine did that for me, and I considered my money well spent. [30]

1993- [zine]: PRODIGAL SONS by Alys - I was very intrigued by the "universe" Alys has created for this incarnation of Bodie and Doyle. I'd certainly like to see more of it. It's only the beginning, isn't it?

MR HUDSON'S NEPHEW by Joan Enright - Was very enjoyable. I was an avid follower of Upstairs/Downstairs and don't remember this particular episode. I wish it had been filmed!

STRANGERS ON THE SHORE by Jane - Was a good solid story as I've come to expect from her. Working in the ocean import/export trade as I do, I found the story especially interesting comparing the vast changes (and similarities) between the sea trade of 100 years ago and today. I also liked her Bodie and Doyle.

I've never seen Blade Runner but it didn't stop me from enjoying Stew's RIGHT HERE, RIGHT NOW. She's always good and seems to be adapting aU sorts of S.F. universes into B/D.

As usual, Ellis Ward has a Winner with BROADCAST DIFFICULTIES - I love this series! My favorite um-bit was the sfanglit hanging off of Bodie's dangly bits. Also enjoyed the image of the timid sfanglet nestled in Doyle's pocket (Ahhh). It's too bad these couldn't be illustrated.

I also enjoyed the other stories very much. When I saw "Hook" in the movies I thought that the young Pan could be a young Doyle. Glad to see someone else agreed with me.

As usual the artwork was excellent, especially the cover and Pat Cash's Doyle on page 136. [31]
1993- [zine]: Yes, I thoroughly enjoyed OTAP III! You've managed to get together a stable of regular contributors of extremely high quality - so much so that, literaly, the content of your zine is pre-guaranteed. You can be enormously proud. My favorite piece (setting aside that one about the shipping company , which for some (weird) reason remains closest to my heart) was Ellis Ward's BROADCAST DIFFICULTIES. Marvelous stuff, keep you eye on Ellis; she could easily follow you and me and make the transition to pro writing. But the whole zine was wonderful.[32]

1993- [zine]: Thanks for OT&P III and an especial thanks for the update when the zine was delayed. Delays are fme if you know about them, it's when the zine appears to have dropped into a black hole that I don't like. What a large issue too - really value for the $$. It doesn't bother me if the type faces are different when you can cram that much into an issue. As always Ellis Ward's BROADCAST DIFFICULTIES was well worth the waiting for. I really like this series and hope she will continue with it.

STRANGERS ON THE SHORE was also a good read. Jane is able to set you into a period so well that you really feel at home there.

Of the shorter stories Lily Fulford's ONCE UPON A TIME was a delight - one of those quirky little stories that can work so well.

I also found Stew's 'Blade Runner' RIGHT HERE, RIGHT NOW came off really well. All the stories had something going for them but these are the ones that stood out for me. Two "Bodie's" stood out in the art work, Pat Cash's and Adrian Morgan's - both quite different and both very good.

Looking forward to OT&P IV.[33]

1993- [zine]: Thank you for "Other Times and Places #3". I really like it. My favorite stories were:

BROADCAST DIFFICULTIES by Ellis Ward. She is one of my favorite authors and I like this universe quite a lot. I would like to see more stories in this S.F. setting.

THE SILENT LILY. I was happy to see the first story in this universe. I would like to see more stories about Raimond and Guillaume.

BEAU AND THE BEAST by Jane Mailander. I once saw the feature with Jean Marais. Made be Jean Cocteau and I was very impressed. To write this story was a fantastic idea.[34]

1993- [zine]: Thank you for the enormous issue of OTAP III. There was hours of reading with some of my favorite authors. Joan Enright's MR HUDSON'S NEPHEW was a wonderful story. I have enjoyed other stories by this author and was not disappointed in this one. Please continue to write!

STRANGERS ON THE SHORE by Jane. Another fantastic story from Jane. The obvious time she puts into her stories shows thru in the detailed background and settings. I really enjoyed this tale of the maritime shipping industry. I look forward to other contributions by her.

LORD OF THE FOREST/DISSOLUTION INTERVAL both by Baravan. I love stories about Philip Mark and LORD OF THE FOREST was great. She sets up a believable background for the 'Butcher of Lincolnshire" as seen in the 'Robin of Sherwood' episode. The reader is able to sympathize with Philip's loss and gain some measure of understanding for his later actions.

In DISSOLUTION INTERVAL, Baravan uses some twists and turns to keep the interest. A thoroughly enjoyable read.[35]

1993- [zine]: Best one so far—a big, splendid zine! OTAP 3 should account for a good number of Fan Q nominations—I know for sure that "Beau and the Beast" was nominated, and I wouldn't be surprised if half of the stories in #3 weren't. OTaP has emerged as a damn fine fantasy anthology, loosely held together by a media theme.

"Minstrel and the Knight" could have done with a tune-up on the scansion-each stanza was an awkward read, moving like a horse with legs of four different sizes—but was otherwise a sweet poem. And Doyle stayed in character here, not turned into the usual wilting doily or Fey Ray.

Joan Enright's "Mr Hudson's Nephew" a winner! I got a true feel for the life at the Bellamy household- and this from a woman who has yet to see an episode of Upstairs. Downstairs. I know enough about it to smile at her making Bodie the butler's nephew. A splendid story on its own merits.

Stew's "Right Here, Right Now" another winner. Bodie would make a heathen fine Blade Runner, if only for his physical similarity to Deckard (well, from the hair up, anyway). Perfectly in character for that big racist bastard to call replicants "skin jobs." Also perfectly captured the world of the Ridley Scott film.

"Broadcast Difficulties" by Ellis Ward a good continuation of her splendid "Echo" in Chalk & Cheese #7, if it does suffer a little in contrast—it's hard to write a sequel that surpasses the original. Thank God—some one who knows how to use telepathy correctly in a story! I get very tired of the "tra la la, I'm a telepath, my gift makes my whole life easier" school of fantasy writing. Good explanation for some of Bodie's actions and words in "Echo," as well as being able to get Cowley in on the whole thing. But the sfanglets were awfully cute-and I'm not using the "c" word in a complimentary sense, either. Asper is a good character, and was distinctly un-cute in "Echo"; I could have done without a litter of adorable kittens- oops, sfanglets. It could just be me—anything that smacks of the Church of the Cat Worshippers sets my teeth on edge.

"Lord of the Forest" a lovely piece by Baravan—and it would explain how someone with Bodie's character would turn into a bastard like Phillip Mark in the RoS episode, "The Sheriff of Nottingham." That TACS cover Doyle could almost be an illo for that one—or was the story written for the illo? Baravan's right on the mark with her other story-except that a horse is just that little bit smarter than Bodie...

Lily Fulford's "Once Upon a Time" hilarious. Here you are, all set to write a faery tail, and the slash editors keep making it a fairy tale. My favorite part was the grudging change of Prince Adrian's (oops, Raymond's) facial features from "guinea gold hair and blue eyes" to "auburn hair with gold highlights and green eyes that looked blue when he wore certain colors." Sounds like a typical Writer vs. Editor clash to me. Also liked the image of that poor dragon tapping his claws and waiting for them to start fighting him.

Jean Lamb's Peter Pan story rather strange but it makes sense, in a weird way. After all, a boy who never truly had a childhood would never want to grow up, if he had the chance. Big booboo, as Jean and I have already agreed, on having the pirate choose the name Hook before he loses his hand! I was really looking forward to the movie Hook, and I was disappointed. Most of it was Spielberg conspicuously playing with his big expensive toys, not nearly as fun as it could have been—and who invented that ghastly Lost Boys roller-rink? But the one aspect of Hook I liked-besides Hoffman's wonderful portrayal of the title character-was Rufio, and I was glad to see him in Jean's story, even if only briefly. And that final line of link's is wonderful!

"Turn and Turn About, Intruder" by [Shoshanna G] and [Barbara T]. Heh, heh, heh. Got the title. Must be set in the Holly Hop Drive Universe from Red Dwarf (where everything happened exactly the way it did in our Earth, but with the sexes reversed). And by God, even a Wilhemina Bodie and a Rae Doyle can find true love in a slash relationship, and have it approved by Georgia Cowley!

And here I started Pros writing by making fim of A/Us.. .(My first story was "Boys I' the Hood" in C&C 9, and that damn thing has turned into a full-blown fan universe!) "Beau and the Beast" fell out of me—I started it on a Saturday and finished it the following Friday. As I mentioned in the note, I was greatly inspired by the epic of Gilgamesh—the original all-male version of "Beauty and the Beast," as well as a seminal myth about the mighty king of Uruk and his search for immortality. Anyone who's read Gilgamesh will recognize the complaints of the townspeople to Beau's father as the complaints of the people of Uruk to the gods regarding Gilgamesh's excesses, nearly verbatim. Loved Baravan's depiction of my own favorite image from the story-the weeping Venus. If you're wondering, there is a smidgen of the Disney film in "Beau" as well-the ballroom and the books. In fact, Nina and I joked about using a Disney still of Gaston as an illo for Beau! And I'm sorry to disappoint all the BatB fans, but I couldn't stand the TV show- Jean Marais' Bete from the 1946 Cocteau film makes Ron Perleman's Vincent look like Ralph Kramden.

Sue-Ann Hardwick, just a note. Cut your use of ellipses (...) and exclamation points (!!!) by about 50%, they'll be more effective that way. I know what I'm talking about, because editors have to keep yanking out my extra semicolons (;).[36]

Issue 4

Other Times and Places 4 was published in 1993 and contains 199 pages (approximately 151,000 words, plus art). Cover art is by TACS and the interior art is by TACS, Jane, Linda Sax, and Karen Eaton.

cover of issue #5, TACS: "I wasn't entirely sure who was supposed to be on the cover of this zine, although it's a pretty enough picture, but the fact that it was a young man with most of his chest showing, standing in front of a unicorn, both of them in the water, didn't lead me to expect great things, I have to admit. But..." [37]

From Media Monitor: "Features 'The Swordsman,' a novel-length fantasy work by Jane. Doyle is a mercenary master swordsman with a cat as his familiar. He is hired to guard Bodie from real and magical enemies. The Little Merman, a novel by Jane Mailander. Ray is a denizen of a race related to dolphins. Is he willing to pay the price to live among humans? Incubus, a novella by Dee. C15 agent Ray Doyle has mysterious powers and wild fantasies which involve his partner. Poems, cartoons, art and more!"

The editorial:

Welcome to issue #4 of this publication! Who would ever think that A/U versions of our wonderful characters would go this far, but it's true.

I did have the problem of having this wonderful TACS cover and no matching story — I don't usually like to print enticing cover art with no tale to go with it. SO We will have a contest for the next issue. Write a story which matches this cover for OTHER TIMES AND PLACES V. and I'll think of some prize to give other than just your usual trib copy. And I can reprint this cover as an interior illo to your tale. If I get more than one which are acceptable, then the more the merrier! Of course, other stories are more than welcome. SASE for guidelines (submit, submit...) I can also use more artists as well. A special thanks to TACS for the great art she has done for all issues of this zine, as well as for my other publications. Also thanks to the authors, Jane Mailander, Jane, Dee, Jude, Gena Fisher, and to the zany cartoonists, Karen Eaton and Jane Mailander. Thanks as well to onna for help with typing. Above all, thanks to you, the readers, whose support keeps this publication going beyond our wildest dreams. Dream on!

Summaries from the original zine flyer:

  • Editorial (2)
  • * Mother's Best Girl, poem by by Jude (3)
  • Fallen Angels, poem by by Jude (3)
  • The Little Merman by Jane Mailander - 33 pages (Ray, a denizen of an underseas race related to dolphins finds himself longing for places above, among humans. Is he willing to pay the price?) (6)
  • Fey Ray by Jane Mailander (39)
  • [http://hatstand.slashcity.net/dee/in
  • The Swordsman by Jane - 106 pages (published as a standalone novel called The Swordsman) (Bodie, bearing an old wound from warfare is the uneasy and unhappy heir to a feudal realm. A mysterious swordsman, accompanied by a cat comes into town. Bodie hires this master swordsman to guard against enemies, magical and real.) (40)
  • Traitor, poem by Jude (146)
  • Dream Weaver, poem by Jude (146)
  • Incubus by Dee - 43 pages (CI5 agent Ray Doyle finds that he has mysterious powers, and he finds himself engaging in wild fantasies and dreams, all forbidden by the strict teachings of his upbringing. Of course his dark-haired partner plays a big part in these fantasies...And are they really just fantasies?) (147)
  • And Now For Something Completely Different by Gena Fisher (190)
  • Some Problems with Shapechanging, depicted by Karen Eaton (196)
  • Letters to the Editor (197)

Reactions and Reviews: Issue 4

See reactions and reviews for Incubus.

unknown date - [zine]: I wasn't entirely sure who was supposed to be on the cover of this zine, although it's a pretty enough picture, but the fact that it was a young man with most of his chest showing, standing in front of a unicorn, both of them in the water, didn't lead me to expect great things, I have to admit. But...

I really enjoyed this zine! There are essentially four stories within (the four poems really aren't my thing), all alternative universe.

"The Little Merman" by Jane Mailander sounds like a relatively dreadful premise - Doyle is the merman in question, Bodie the human he falls for - but Mailander completely pulls it off. It's a historical fantasy au, and I really enjoyed it. Well written, neither soppy nor plain, just right in fact! (This is the only story available outside the zine, at time of writing).

"The Swordsman" is a long fantasy story from Jane. Bodie is heir to a dukedom, and his life is in danger. Doyle, a swordsman travelling the lands for reasons he keeps to himself, is hired as his bodyguard, and with the help of a few original characters they manage to uncover the plot and the plotters. The ending, though, is not at all what I expected, which was actually quite refreshing!

"The Incubus", by Dee, sees Doyle discovering a rather unusual ability (yeah, guess which, eh?) and is a mixture of slightly-mission and relationship based plot. Another enjoyable read.

Finally, "And Now For Something Completely Different" by Gena Fisher - well, with a title like that I really should have guessed, but I didn't and so I giggled quite alot all the way through. Just to taunt you a little:

"... dead, I'm tellin you." Bodie pointed out as he and Doyle regarded their prisoner. Doule shook his head, he had a bad track where the longevity of prisoner's lives were involved and so refused to be convinced without proof. "Nah, 's not dead. Just restin'." Doyle edged closer nudging the man with the toe of his boot."

See where Fisher is going with that..?

In general, yes there are some typos and some grammar mistakes - but I only noticed the latter when I was typing out that excerpt, the writing is good enough that you skim over them, otherwise.

In general - liked this zine, recommend it! (As long as you're happy with alternate universe and fantasy, anyway!) [38]
1993 - [zine]: Jane Mailander shines in Nina Boals' Other Times and Places 4' - the story is 'The Little Merman', whose title basically tells you the plot. It's quite well done, actually! This whole zine is good. I really think the quality in this series comes up noticeably in each issue. I hope Nina keeps with it. [39]

Issue 5

cover of issue #5, portrays Bodie with a splash of red lipstick and a little red heart to the side with the artist's name -- TACS
detail from the cover
a reprint version (not known if authorized or unauthorized, but partly done with the intent of saving money on the cost of the color art) of the cover of issue #5, TACS

Other Times and Places 5 was published in 1994 (93,500 words) and contains 152 pages. The cover is by TACS and the interior art is by TACS, RAG and Cat.

The editor wrote that the letters of comment for issue #4 have all been lost but if she finds them, she'll send them to the authors.

  • Editorial (2)
  • Lord of My Love by Joan Enright (t. A Shakespearian fantasy. Ray Doyle is an eminent actor working under William Shakespeare. One night, he sees a face in the audience....) (3)
  • Practiced Partner, poem by Jude (35)
  • Half and Half, poem by Jude (35)
  • Guardian Angel, Inc. by Mandy (Well, someone has to keep two reckless CI5 agents safe and sound.) (36)
  • Raymond, poem by Jude (47)
  • Bounty by Jane who stated on the title page that it was "from a story by Madelaine Ingram - sequel to "Nothing Left to Lose" by Jane in Leather and Blue Jeans (Bodie and Doyle must continue to survive after the holocaust which has shaken the world.) (48)
  • Pose at the Bar, poem by Jude (87)
  • Magic from When the World was New by Gena Fisher (Bodie uses magic from his African days.) (88)
  • The True Story of Navarre and the Tiercel-Knight by Jane Mailander - fusion with Ladyhawke ( Phillipe must exist as a wolf by night, Ramau as a hawk during the day. How can they consumate their love?.) (89)
  • Master Bodie and the Elves by Cat Anesto (at. A short-short story with a "twist" at the end — a different sort of elf story. A young knight is led to his doom.) (133)
  • Abode of Delight by DVS This story was "written in response to the 'contest' I announced in the last issue." It is likely it was the only submission to this contest. (A young virgin fellow rescues a beast far more intelligent than most men around him) unicorn Bodie story.) (134)

Issue 6

cover of issue #6 is a color photograph of Ray Doyle
photocopied cover of issue #6
sample page from issue #6, this one the first page of "Breakheart."

Other Times and Places 6 was published in 1995 and is 90 pages long. It contains no art nor letters of comment.

Regarding "Breakheart": "'Breakheart' by Jane was published as a virtually identical story--except with the names changed--with the same title by Mel Keegan as original fiction in the gay anthology Swords of the Rainbow -- 1996, eds. Eric Garber and Jewel Gomez, Alyson Publications." [40] [41] The zine version is 11135 words, the pro version in the pro anthology is 11635 words, the ebook by Mel Keegan has 11120 words.

From the editorial:

Welcome to Other Times And Places VI! As you can see, I have a new computer along with Microsoft Works for Windows. So I get to experiment and play with different fonts. Which also means that I can now accept submissions for future issues on 3.5" disks, IBM formatted. If possible, please use a Microsoft WP file, or else I can take WordPerfect or else a plain DOS text file. Or else, as I have before, I would be happy to continue accepting camera-ready hard copies. I can also take submissions over the Internet. Write me by snail-mail for details.

Speaking of which. This is a quality issue. But it is also a bit more abbreviated than I normally would prefer. Due to my own circumstances (I have been studying computer programming, and have been incredibly busy this year) I didn't get it together to organize art for this issue. Even the cover is made from a photograph.

At any rate, the cover is a compelling, poignant portrait of Ray Doyle which Laura Peck took from a photo she had on file. So I am hoping that it will inspire some of our talented writers out there to write stories which might match this cover. Let those wide eyes and inviting lips inspire you! Submit. Submit, ....Please send SASE for detailed guidelines. I would like to have a longer issue next time.

As for the stories. Some of them are "pre-slash." Most of the stories this time are CI5 oriented, with fantasy/SF elements to them. But we also have one of Jane's magnificant fantasy worlds depicted in BREAKHEART.

PJ put a lot of work into her ghostly novella, VORTEX (which features a character who ought to be familiar to US readers who like to watch a certain, currently popular show on TV). And we have lovely shorter works by Gena Fisher and Mandy andJane Mailander

References

  1. from Short Circuit #1
  2. from Cold Fish and Stale Chips #6
  3. Susan Douglass in Short Circuit #3 (October 1990)
  4. comment by Ellis Ward in "Other Times and Places" #2
  5. comment by Jane of Australia in "Other Times and Places" #2
  6. comment by Sue-Anne Hartwick in "Other Times and Places" #2
  7. comment by a fan in England in "Other Times and Places" #2
  8. comment in "Other Times and Places" #2
  9. comment in "Other Times and Places" #2
  10. comment in "Other Times and Places" #2
  11. comment in "Other Times and Places" #2
  12. comment in "Other Times and Places" #2
  13. comment in "Other Times and Places" #2
  14. comment by Jean Lamb in "Other Times and Places" #2
  15. comment in "Other Times and Places" #2
  16. comment by Kandi Clarke in "Other Times and Places" #2
  17. from The Zine Connection #16
  18. from an LoC in "Other Times, Other Places" #3
  19. from an LoC in "Other Times, Other Places" #3
  20. from an LoC in "Other Times, Other Places" #3
  21. from an LoC in "Other Times, Other Places" #3
  22. from an LoC in "Other Times, Other Places" #3
  23. from an LoC in "Other Times, Other Places" #3
  24. from an LoC in "Other Times, Other Places" #3
  25. from an LoC in "Other Times, Other Places" #3
  26. from an LoC by Jane of Australia in "Other Times, Other Places" #3, which notably does not comment on Legacy of Temptation.
  27. from an LoC in "Other Times, Other Places" #3
  28. from an LoC by Jean Lamb in "Other Times, Other Places" #3
  29. Broadcast Difficulties, review posted to Crack Van by krisserci5
  30. from Psst... Hey Kid, Wanna Buy a Fanzine? #6. The reviewer in gives it "4 trees." The reviewers in "Psst... Hey Kid, Wanna Buy a Fanzine?" rated zines on a 1-5 tree/star scale. See that page for more explanation.
  31. from an LoC in "Other Times and Places" #3
  32. from an LoC in "Other Times and Places" #3
  33. from an LoC in "Other Times and Places" #3
  34. from an LoC in "Other Times and Places" #3
  35. from an LoC in "Other Times and Places" #3
  36. from an LoC by Jane Mailander in "Other Times and Places" #3
  37. review by slantedlight at palelyloitering, Archived version
  38. review by slantedlight at palelyloitering, Archived version
  39. from a fan in Short Circuit #15 (December 1993)
  40. from The Hatstand
  41. It appears that the this zine version has about 1500 less words than the pro version. -- from a post at Seeking Pros list makers and readers of Mel Keegan's books; WebCite In turn, the for-profit ebook published by Keegan has 1500 words less than the pro book -- "[Note: this 'generation’ of BREAKHEART is 1,500 words longer than the text previously published in Alyson Books' "Swords of the Rainbow," USA, 1999.]" (This 1999 date differs from the 1996 original publication date, so perhaps a reprint? -- Breakheart.