Podfic Permission

Related terms:	Blanket Permission to Podfic
See also:	Permission to Archive, Blanket Statement, Blanket No to Podfic, Unauthorized Sequel, Deleting Fanworks
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Obtaining permission to podfic a fan writer's fanfic is the norm within the English-language podfic community and within the fanfic fandoms they typically make podfic for. Many podficcers ask permission before starting to work on a podfic, but some ask only when or if they decide they want to post their podfic on the internet.

There have been a number of discussions regarding whether or not permission should be required, especially in cases where the author cannot be reached. There has also been a trend toward more authors posting blanket permission statements to encourage podfic of their work or at least not have to field so many individual inquiries.

Pre-history in Zine Fandom

Fan Fiction Audio Recording has been around since long before podfic, but available information about permission etiquette in the past is sparse.

Started in 1992, The Fanzine-Taping Service for Blind and Print Handicapped Readers recorded zine fanfic with the permission of the publisher, but made it available only to sight-impaired fans with special tape players; the tapes would not play on regular machines.

A discussion that was documented revolved around providing access to zines for blind fans and others with physical difficulties reading the printed page. A 1984 letter in Universal Translator #23 requested feedback on audio sharing without permission:

I've recently become involved in a tape correspondence with an ST fan who is visually handicapped, and have been taping an occasional story from one of my fanzines to sent to her. In all honesty, I don't feel this is abusing anyone's rights or violating anyone's copyright, any more than the very common practice of lending out or trading zines. The basic question I'm posing here is: At what point does the practice stop being friendly sharing and become zine piracy? Suppose the tape is passed to a third party and beyond? Or suppose someone should decide to produce multiple copies of tapes for general distribution? Obviously, at some point, permission to sued the material is necessary. At what point? And who is authorized to give it -- the author, the zine editor, or both? There is also the question of reimbursement. If multiple copies are made, is a contributor's copy in order? If the tapes are sold at a profit, are royalties to be expected? And in either case, who is entitled to that reimbursement -- again, the author or editor?

A response by Susan Garrett two issues later gives us an early example of a blanket permission statement:

... I hereby give permission to audio tape any amateur story written under my name, or a pseudonym, for the purposes of making the material available to handicapped fans. Also, as an editor, I am will ing to contact contributors to my zines, should there be an interest in having one of their stories verbally transcribed.

History on LiveJournal

When the practice of recording and sharing podfic first spread within LiveJournal fanfic fandom, early discussions and community rules regarding permission indicate that people expected more podfic to be made by the authors themselves. Recording a story by someone else initially seemed to be treated as a special case, and communities had different rules on whether podficcers should get permission.

From sgapodfic in 2006:

Please only post podfic that is either written by you or you have been given permission to read by the author by his/herself. If an author complains/mentions you didn't ask, we will warn you, give you about 24 hours to either ask nicely and then it will be removed.

From sgapodpeople, 2007:

If you're podficcing a story that you haven't written, please be certain you have the writer's permission before you begin recording. Thank you!

From sg1podfic, 2007:

We do not require that podfic posted to the community have permission of the original author (though we do require that the original author be clearly credited in the audio file, and a link to the fic (if available) be included in the post). We do strongly encourage you to secure permission first. An author may already have plans to podcast the fic in question, or they may not want their work podcast. We will not get involved in any disputes between authors and podficcers. If the original author of a podficced story requests that the post be deleted, we will do so.

Blanket Permission, etc.

See also Blanket Permission to Podfic

Some fanfic authors give blanket permission for anyone to create podfics based on their writing.

In the 2010s, many LiveJournal and Dreamwidth users started posting their blanket statement on their user profile pages; when users migrated their fic from journal platforms to AO3, some (but not all) also migrated their blanket statements to their AO3 profiles. On AO3 in the 2020s some authors use the Podfic Welcome tag on individual works to indicate permission instead of or in addition to a blanket statement elsewhere.

Before blanket podfic permission statements became widespread, individual enthusiasts or mods for podfic communities would post asking if authors were okay with fans podficcing their works, and authors would leave their permission statements in the comments section of the post. Examples include the Amplificathon post and the Multipodicity blanket permission list. Here is an early example of a podfic community sharing an individual author's blanket permission statement, in 2005:

Note: charlotteschaos has been gracious enough to grant "blanket" permission to read her fics. I wasn't sure how else to "announce" this, so, there ya go!

Sometimes the blanket statement includes caveats or limitations on that permission, such as specific works that are not to be podficced. In 2011 Paraka noted that many blanket statements excluded fanfic that had already been podficced and speculated that the authors might be assuming that podficcers would not want repods. Meanwhile, many fan writers post podfic-friendly statements that don't meet the criteria of blanket permission necessary for inclusion on the list — authors would say they liked podfic, but still wanted to be asked first. A very common request is to ask podficcers to link to the original work and alert the author (usually so that they can squee over it); akamine chan suggested in a 2012 Pod Aware for authors to think carefully about whether to mandate or simply encourage conditions such as "Drop me a link to the completed work," though some people took offense at the implication that authors hadn't already thought through the wording of their permission policies.

Very few authors have issued a formal Blanket No to Podfic, although some authors without a blanket permission statement have been known to say no when asked.

Effects of Permission

Anecdotal evidence suggests that most authors, when asked, say yes. However, requiring permission is seen as a difficult hurdle for podficcers who are shy about asking and fear rejection. Some have commented that receiving a "no" response actually killed their enjoyment of the original story. Other reasons for podficcers' reluctance include feeling obligated to finish the project if they receive permission and fearing to make the author feel obligated to listen. Tales of uncomfortable encounters between authors and podficcers have circulated widely in the podfic community — incidents where authors didn't understand what they were agreeing to or for one reason or another retroactively revoked the permission after the podfic was posted. As a result, authors who have said yes in the past are much more likely to be podficced again as people take note that they are receptive to podfic requests.

On the author side, thefourthvine reported email anxiety as an author when faced with podfic permission requests. It has also been pointed out that authors who particularly don't want podfic may not respond to permission requests due to anxiety about saying no.

One solution to the problem of shy and sensitive podficcers (and authors) that has been championed in many a meta post is to encourage more authors to post a statement of blanket permission to podfic. This solution has been promoted as both a good way to avoid the stress of asking and as a good way for authors who want to be podficced to get more podfic. A comment on Fail Fandomanon points out another benefit of blanket permission:

[Anxiety is] an important factor, yes, but another big reason why it's advocated is simple convenience, since when you want to podfic you can start right away and don't need to put time and energy into the communication or choosing a new project when you get a 'no' (because yes, most podficcers do respect a 'no'). When you podfic a lot that adds up, windows of time where you can do something open and close and having a list of authors who give a blanket yes is simply a great resource. They serve podficcers well and they serve authors well who don't want to repeat themselves. Now I can see that some FFAers will find that desire unjustified and tell people to just pick a different hobby if they want spontaneity but I really can't blame people for advocating policies that make their lives easier.

Starting in 2010 podficcers have been maintaining lists of authors who give blanket permission. (One copy of the multi-fandom masterlist is maintained on Fanlore itself.) After the initial idea of compiling lists of authors who gave blanket permission to podfic, podficcers began encouraging blanket statements other than a straightforward yes; authors could also signal their interest in podfic with a statement of "probably yes, but please ask first". Although a few regard a blanket statement requesting that podficcers ask first as pointless (asking is the default in the absence of a policy), others have pointed out that in an environment where some authors are actively hostile to podfic, such a statement is very useful.

Commentators have noted that this has been a successful campaign, and including a "transformative works statement" has become a standard practice among many authors. (As of August 2013, following many rounds of FFA podfic wank, there appeared to be some backlash as some authors who did not want to give blanket permission perceived a social pressure to conform. However, after the death of the epic wank, this issue hasn't resurfaced. People may also have stopped complaining because podficcers were no longer campaigning as hard for everyone to make a blanket statement. Finally, a lot of these discussions also happened on journal services now inhabited only by a single tumbleweed.)

In the Context of Fandom's Views of Podfic

Podfic's status as a niche activity within the larger fanfic community may have a direct impact on what podfic can be produced. Some fan writers are very protective of their fanfic and will withhold permission, given the opportunity. Many fans have simply never heard of podfic. Many do not see podfic as a separate artistic creation and so do not comprehend the enormity of retroactively removing permission. Many do not see the appeal. Some say it gives them second-hand embarrassment. Some have even expressed disgust at the thought of listening to explicit fanfic read aloud.

For many reasons, not all fanfic writers are on board with podfic, and a few have issued a blanket no. Consequently, the distribution of available podfic is as much an indication of who the podfic-friendly authors are as it is an indication of who the popular authors are.

Some podficcers have responded to fandom's lack of awareness of podfic by trying to educate fandom — making individual meta posts or creating challenges and fests such as Pod Aware. In response to several publicized misunderstandings in 2010, revolutionaryjo started a trend in writing a generic "dear author" letter to clearly outline the podficcer's expectations when an author grants permission.

Discussion and Controversies

There is a range of opinion among podficcers (and fandom as a whole) regarding permission. Whether or not requiring permission in the first place is necessary or good has been a topic of debate in some podfic communities and anon memes like Fail Fandomanon. However, issues of permission are implicated in several different meta discussion topics.

Unavailable or Unknown Writers

One recurring topic of discussion among fan creators, and podficcers in particular, is that of grey areas in the norm of asking for permission, such as in the case of stories whose authors are unknown or unavailable to give permission.

As with many discussions surrounding the further transformation of fanworks, the matter is muddled by the contradictions between, and conflation of, (US) copyright law, AO3 terms of service and informal fannish etiquette.

Orphan Works

A problem that is brought up frequently is what to do when permission cannot be obtained because the fan writer is known but cannot be contacted. It can be difficult to determine whether the fanfic is truly abandoned or whether the writer is simply not checking their email. Furthermore, some fan writers have died, email accounts stop working, websites and user accounts disappear, and there is no agreement on whether it is okay to proceed in these cases.

Permission requirements disproportionately affect fans who want to podfic older fanfic and especially zine fic; many zine writers are not online. People have argued that permission prevents the preservation of and fannish engagement with old fanfic. In 2010 zvi commented,

if we have a politeness standard that says, 'You should ask the author,' and one is unable to ask, the politeness standard then implies, 'Too bad, so sad, all of that fic for which an author cannot be found is now unavailable for additional transformation.' And I think that's a great loss.

The rising popularity of anonymous kink memes resulted in questions about whether podficcers should (or could) get permission from anonymous authors, especially when authors frequently "de-anonned" after the fact, but didn't always add a notice at the original URL of the fic. In a 2010 podficmeta post, paraka commented, "Not only will I not know if whomever answers my request for permission is the real author, some authors might not be tracking comments to the ficlets so they may never see it. My impulse is to just go ahead without author's permission but, well, it's such a touchy subject." In a 2012 podficmeta post, anatsuno said,

Personally, I view anon-posting as a practice that comes with a price; the fact that you-the-author are hard to identify is a feature and a bug both. If you haven't de-anoned (by reposting a/o by claiming the fill in the meme itself), you are "protected" in your anonymity, but you also *cannot* claim ownership. Hence there is no reason that your socially-non-existent ownership be socially acknowledged or respected. So in my view, if a podficcer does their best to track the author down (checking for reposts in communities and archives, asking around, and most of all signalling their intentions by posting on the meme in the relevant thread(s)) and they're not receiving any answer, the story is fair game.

A 2014 discussion in a Phoenix Wright kink meme showed that some memers emphatically did not consider anonymous works to be abandoned works and would rather anonymous works not be podficced at all due to the difficulty of obtaining permission:

I appreciate what you're doing because I think it's creative and fantastic but I think there are better ways to go about it... below are a whole host of keen authors offering their work and I think authors contacted on Ao3 would be delighted. If an author declined, at least you'd know for certain what their wishes were and could use work by someone who fully supports you instead.

When the question — So what's the best policy when you want to do a podfic, for a fanfic but the author hasn't been seen on the internet for forever — was posed anonymously on Fail Fandomanon in June 2013, it generated a diversity of responses, including:

• If you can't contact them, go ahead and post.
• If you can't contact them, go ahead and post, but be prepared to take it down again if they resurface and object.
• If you can't get permission, you can't post.

The question was the spark that set off a multi-platform discussion known on Fail_Fandomanon only as "podfic wank" and among (northern hemisphere) podficcers as "The Summer of Podfic Hate".

Orphaned Works

The Archive of Our Own has a feature that enables creators to deliberately orphan their fanworks, that is, remove the work from their account and erase all references to the identity of the creator but leave the work on the archive for posterity.

During earlier debates regarding "orphan works," there didn't seem to be much discussion of orphaned works, which many podficcers considered fair game with no apparent pushback.

Still, as of 2022, questions and debates about the permission status of these works remained frequent in podficcing circles, and some fic writers expressed concern. One example of this debate unfolded in June 2021, when fic writer gnarf posted (original emphasis):

Dear writer friends,

It recently came to my attention that people seek out orphaned works on AO3 to podfic those. It seems to be a regular practice, regular enough for me to make this post at least.

Fandom etiquette isn’t the same for everyone. And don’t get me started on mutual respect.

If you ever leave the fandom, or decide to get rid of one of your works for personal reasons, please be aware that your works might be seen as open for grabs once you orphaned them.

Once you orphaned a work there’s very little you can do to prevent this from happening.

gnarf Tumblr post, June 2021

Podficcers argued their case in response:

I am a huge proponent of orphaning, and vastly prefer folks leave their works up rather than deleting them from the internet entirely. I love the thought that there are works preserved out there, whether or not the original creator still wants to claim them. I think that preservation is part of the beauty of the Archive.

I also think that if a creator has disavowed their work to the point of orphaning it, it’s not ‘their’ work anymore. That creator no longer has an opinion on how I transform it further. We’re all playing in the same sandbox here. Let’s have some fun adding towers to the sandcastle.

reply to gnarf by reena_jenkins, June 2021

The rationale behind podficcers having to ask for permission (or constantly hassle people about blanket permission statements :p) when fic authors don’t ask anyone permission (and indeed, sometimes disregard TPTB’s wishes re:fanfic, often with fandom’s general approval) is that podfic is an “archive” of someone’s story with their name attached – because yes, podficcers always credit the writer. And this has potential privacy implications, which podficcers understand!

But if the author isn’t named and can’t be traced, if they have voluntarily cut off their own link with the story, I am genuinely baffled at what hurt I could be causing by sharing the story with a new audience. It can’t hurt the writer’s privacy or damage their reputation. What’s the harm?

reply to gnarf by greedy_dancer, June 2021

To many podficcers' dismay and chagrin, ambiguity in the AO3 Terms of Service as to the possibility of reversing orphaning, as well as communication from AO3 volunteers, has not supported this view.

Podficcers highlighted the fact that this policy raised significant issues:

• Writers who wished to orphan their works may not be aware that by doing so, they were possibly removing any possibility for further transformation of their works;
• Writers who had previously given blanket permission may not be aware that orphaning effectively removed permission by severing the link between the work and the permission statement.

They suggested clarifying these issues in the orphaning process:

• Raising awareness of the orphaning process and encouraging writers to leave their wished re:further transformation in the fic's notes, prior to orphaning;
• Having writers 'tick a box' to acknowledge that orphaning meant the works became fair game for further transformation;
• Having writers 'tick a box' to give permission for specific orphaned works to be transformed further.

Anonymous Works

As of 2022, most podficcers seemed aware that works posted to the "Anonymous" AO3 collection were still attached to their author's pseud, and that this anonymity could be easily reversed; they considered permission necessary to podfic those works.

Anonymous works elsewhere on the internet however were more of a grey area.

Retracting Permission

At one time (circa 2010?), distressed podficcers were reporting cases where fan writers who had formerly given permission revoked permission and requested that the podfic be taken down. Fans differ on whether the podficcer should honor the author's request. In fact, fans differ on whether the author's reason for making the request is relevant to the podficcer's decision:

• "as a podficcer, I would never ever take my podfic down if asked by an author unless they had a REALLY STELLAR REASON. I'd take their name off, lock it to ao3 members etc, but I wouldn't take it down."
• "This is horrifying. As a writer, I don't need to justify to anyone why I deserve to remove my own work from the internet."

Podficcers reported that a few authors who were deleting their fanfic have asked them to take down their podfic. In 2010, general jinjur commented that "if an author gafiates from fandom, there is a 50/50 chance that she will ask the podfic of her stories to be pulled down." Sometimes the podficcer was able to simply remove references to the author after negotiating with the author.

During the 2013 FFA podfic wank, some fans argued that it shouldn't matter why the author wants a takedown, because the story belongs to that author. Others argued that the whole reason for asking permission in the first place was to avoid precisely this situation.

Since then, the permission retraction issue seems to have faded away. In a November 2014 Pod Aware podcast, klb reported that takedowns no longer seemed to be an issue; although takedown requests used to happen on a monthly basis, she hadn't seen any for two and a half years. In an April 2016 Auralphonic podcast, paraka reported that she had tried to get numbers of actual confirmed takedowns and came up with "definitely less than 10, probably no more than 5." There had been two cases total of an author contacting the Audiofic Archive retracting permission (instances where the author contacted the podficcer, and the podficcer contacted the archive were not counted). Paraka explained that the discrepancy between the numbers and the importance of the issue in people's minds was due to early podfic fandom being very small and close-knit.

In 2021, during the controversy about orphaned works, an AO3 Policy & Abuse volunteer communicated that the AO3 would not honor a writer's take-down request about a podfic if the podficcer could prove they had previously obtained permission:

If you can prove that you did at one point obtain permission to create and post your podfic, then we would reject the report, even if the individual making the report was the original creator who had withdrawn permission. The fact that permission was later retracted does not change the fact that permission was once granted, and so long as you have evidence that this is the case, we will honor that fact and allow your podfic to remain on the Archive.

AO3 Policy & Abuse email, posted to Tumblr by gnarf, June 2021

Requiring Permission, Pros and Cons

Arguments Against Requiring Permission

Although most podficcers do not actively campaign for wholesale abandonment of asking permission, various arguments have been put forth as to why this practice is questionable. Arguments include: no one should expect control over a fanwork once it is posted publicly on the Internet, it isn't fair to impose restrictions on other people's fan activity, it creates unequal power relations between podficcers and authors, and only fanfiction (as opposed to fan art or fanvids) ever got such privileged treatment in the first place. The inability to podfic orphan fanfics has also been used as an example of why requiring permission at all is bad.

In any discussion about permission and fanworks, some have pointed to the hypocrisy of having to ask permission from another fanwork creator when it is not considered necessary to ask the canon creator's permission. Very few fan writers would consider, for example, the wishes of professional authors to be relevant to whether or not they decide to write fanfic.

Arguments for Requiring Permission

One major reason often cited for requiring permission to podfic is that the podfic in a sense is a copy of the fanfic in a different format. Although the podficcer's work in performing and editing and packaging the podfic is creative, podfics normally contain the entire text of the original story and are in a legal sense derivative, rather than transformative, works. Podfics are the fannish equivalent of audiobooks and, like audiobooks, normally cannot be distributed without an agreement with the original copyright holder (there are some exceptions for services to the blind in U.S. copyright law).

There is a similar community norm that opposes the archiving of fic without permission. Reasons for this norm include: it's the polite thing to do; the writer should have the right to control where their fic is published; and if the writer needs to take their fic down for any reason, they can do so easily. (In a 2017 podcast on podfic permission, paraka remarked that part of the desire for authorial control in modern fanfic fandom stems from the history of Cease & Desist orders, plus the general attitude that girl hobbies are shameful and need to be hidden.) One notable exception to this norm is Twilight fandom, where authors so frequently pull to publish that at least one archive exists to repost fic without permission; according to giselle, Twilight is a lesson in what not to do, as it has devolved into "a spiral where pulling begets reposting which begets more pulling and that whole situation just leaves authors and readers at each other's throats with pitchforks".

The importance of maintaining good will within the fandom community is also cited as a reason to ask permission. Unlike the canon creators, fanfic writers move in the same circles as podficcers. It is not even possible in many cases to ask permission of TPTB, but fan writers are in theory just an email away. Even podficcers who question the sense in continuing to require permission have said that they would always ask permission because not doing so would result in hurt feelings and backlash from the community.

kindkit argues that podfic's relationship to fanfic is not comparable to fanfic's relationship to canon.

Meta Discussion Links

• Should readers get permission to make podfic? in podficmeta (January 2010)
• An Open Letter to bjewelled by paraka (June 2011)
• blanket permission roundup post in Pod Aware (November 2011)
• Author Permission in podfic_tips (June 2012)
• Question on Permission in podfic_tips (September 2012)
• Permission where author has blanket permission in podfic_tips (October 2012)
• On Permission in Fandom and other Fannish Etiquette by podcath (November 2012)
• Protective Measures: Avoiding Awkward Podfic Situations in Amplificathon (November 2012)
• Proposal in podficmeta (2012)
• Twitter discussion (June 3, 2013)
• podficing protocol discussion in fail_fandomanon (June 9-12, 2013) and Today's FFA Thread discussion on podficmeta in response (June 10-21?, 2013)
• Permission Statements Are Awesome thefourthvine (August 24, 2013)
• TheFourthVine Weighs in on Podfic Blanket Statements in fail_fandomanon (August 24, 2013)
• link roundup by naraht (August 25, 2013)
• More Pod Fic Wank? in fail_fandomanon (August 27, 2013)
• Permissions on older works in podfic_tips (February 2014)
• Auralphonic episode 027: Podfic Permission (March 2017)

Permission Masterlist Links

• FPS List, a searchable database of fanwork permission statements
• Fanlore's Blanket Permission to Podfic
• permission to record? *\o/* (2010 Amplificathon post)
• malnpudl's 2008 poll
• Podfic Welcome tag on Ao3

Fandom-specific Blanket Permission Lists

• Avengers
• Bandom
• Glee
• Harry Potter
• Hockey RPF
• Marvel: Steve/Tony
• Merlin
• One Direction/Radio 1/Little Mix
• Sherlock
• Starsky & Hutch
• Supernatural and Supernatural RPF
• Teen Wolf

Fire_juggler also maintains a list of lists here.