FanloreProject talk:Meta

Welcome to the talk/discussion page for the Fanlore Project for Fannish Meta. --MPH (talk) 19:24, 4 February 2018 (UTC)

When you leave a comment on this page, please remember to sign your post by typing four tildes: ~~~~ --enchantedsleeper (talk) 15:27, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

In Defence of Fandom

Do we have any kind of general page or collection of pages for essays in defence of fandom? Because I have a bunch of different links (I'm something of a collector), and I'd love to make pages for them, or an omni-page, if that's something that we don't yet have. --enchantedsleeper (talk) 19:33, 4 February 2018

We don't have a page or category for this, but we could as I know there are a lot of them already on Fanlore. I'd love it if you added the ones you have. We could make a category for this sort of meta, like we have for Category:Concrit & Feedback Meta and Category:Mary Sue Meta or Category:Femslash Meta. We definitely have a page about the defense or support of fandom, and have a section on it meta (both links) and an overview. --MPH (talk) 21:57, 4 February 2018 (UTC)

Hooray! I've added some links to the requests list. I should have said that these are actually essays in defence of fanworks rather than fandom - I don't know if that changes things or if they should go in the same rough category regardless. --enchantedsleeper (talk) 23:22, 4 February 2018

I think "Fanworks" is a better fit anyway. Fanworks and criticism of them is a narrower focus that, at least to me, is the most interesting. --MPH (talk) 01:03, 5 February 2018 (UTC)

Decided to give it a shot! Meta essays in defense of fanfiction is my start on it for now. There's some known overlap with other pages - I tried not to list most of the responses to The Fan Fiction Rant, Interrogating the text from the wrong perspective and Fan-Fiction and Moral Conundrums because those pages all have excellent further links to meta on their pages. Needs a lot of work but hopefully this helps! Distracteddaydreamer (talk) 19:11, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

Author rants

There's probably room for a category of "Author Rants" or "Pro Author Rants" - there are plenty of examples of authors complaining about fans, or fandom, or fanfic, or the horrible way they were treated at a convention (i.e. as a person instead of as a king). Those are also meta, and they often inspire a bunch of followup articles which definitely fit within the project. Elf (talk) 19:45, 4 February 2018 (UTC)

Since these rants are initially written by non-fans, but commented on by fans (this second part being the meta part), perhaps instead of a meta category for "Pro Author Rants," I suggest making a page about the topic and linking the actual rants to this page. Other opinions welcome! --MPH (talk) 22:01, 4 February 2018 (UTC)

meta by platform categories?

I think this discussion shows a need for categories for where the meta was posted. Do we want Category:Meta on Tumblr, Category:Meta on Journal Sites, Category:Meta on Mailing Lists, Category:Meta on Usenet?--aethel (talk) 15:24, 11 February 2018 (UTC) P.S. And Category:Meta on Reddit.--aethel (talk) 17:52, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

Category:Meta in Print, too?

If you set the categories up, I'll put the put them on the individual meta pages. --MPH (talk) 20:00, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

OK, I've set them up! Let me know if you need more categories.--aethel (talk) 20:51, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

Thank you, kindly. --MPH (talk) 13:07, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

Good thought, Aethel! I'll make sure I use these in future, and I have at least one page I can back-add it to. --enchantedsleeper (talk) 09:29, 13 February 2018

Navigation box?

We don't have all the stuff required for extra-fancy navboxs like wikipedia has, pretty sure (I mean, admittedly, I didn't try it, but we're not using it already so... probably not?) but some simple navboxes are totally within reach, and maybe that would bring visibility to the Fanlore projects? I didn't even realize we had them until today and it took me an embarrassingly long time to find them, oops.

It could be auto-collapsed and go at the top of pages or expanded and go at the bottom... I could also probably make a sidebar, but since having two sidebars is weird that would probably involve changing the meta infobox, which seems like it would be a mess to get into. Plus, navboxes have more room!

Anyway here's a mock up of what a navbox for meta pages could look like. I picked a nice green color because I was tired of doing grey things but also too lazy to figure out what the exact blue color of the site is or anything; it'd be easy to change.

(note that "say hello" is a link to the talk page but ofc doesn't show up that way because we're on the talk page)

I could do these for the other projects too, I just need to know what all should go in them. There's probably more than could go in here, too. This one is done up in wiki table markup but I could probably do some fancier things with an HTML table. - Hoopla (talk) 07:35, 10 October 2018 (UTC)

Switched it to HTML and updated the colors to match the teal in the block quotes! Used some stuff from Template:RelatedLinks. - Hoopla (talk) 00:13, 11 October 2018 (UTC)

That's so handsome, Hoopla. --MPH (talk) 00:33, 11 October 2018 (UTC)

Thanks! If you want to use it, let me know what else you think it needs. I erred on the side of not overstuffing it with things, but it feels like there should probably be... a terminology section? like... ship manifestos, headcanons...? I'm sure there's more that should be in there.

I also think it should go collapsed at the top of pages... the projects need more traffic and the pages need a little more pizzazz, imo. - Hoopla (talk) 00:43, 11 October 2018 (UTC)

The Fic Warning Debate

As part of the Fanlore challenge, I'd like to tackle the Fic Warning Debate topic. I thought I'd start with the AO3 Warnings as a base, so I had something concrete to point to and to use as what I suspect is the one (and only) definitive set of warnings in fandom.

I'll use the link that is provided as a jumping off spot for some of the initial pros and cons.

That should get me enough to get a page started. That should satisfy the challenge, so I can collect all seven badges.

Over the next weeks, I'd like to create and offer out a google form to collect information. First to collect a sample of 'what tags do you require' to collect a list of tags and then to collect rationale for those tags, for those willing to provide that information. There will be a 'may I quote you directly' type question and offers for followup for anyone that would like to offer more information.

Anyone that would like to join in or has suggestions is welcome and can leave a message on my talk page.

I think the above should be transferred to the Warnings talk page. Perhaps "AO3 Warnings" can be a subpage or attached page to that main page? --MPH (talk) 17:34, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

(Still learning on how to leave messages for folk!) That's probably a better idea than what I had. I didn't dig deep enough when I went looking to see what is already on the site and I need to completely re-think the approach. I made a note that the page is a stub and when I've read more pages, I'm going to see about a meta on meta... the warning debate is an old but ongoing one, and while I can't stop it, maybe I can update some references. But that's going to take some work that I need time to do. Thanks!!

Translation Section

Has anyone come across posts about whether or not you should translate jutsu names in Naruto fic? I know that some fic did it one way and some did it another but I didn't read much meta at the time, just fic.

New Subcategory?: Category:Tropes & Genres Meta

What do you think of making a category for Tropes & Genres Meta? (Subcategory of Meta, and probably of Tropes & Genres.)

One of my favourite things is when a fan articulates why common usage of a trope (generally or in fandom) really bothers them, and how to make it more inclusive.

I don't know if we have 10 pages to go in the category at the moment, but "Vampirism as a metaphor for privilege" certainly fits. Crockpotcauldron on tumblr has some great meta on werewolves, and reblogs other people's as well. Some of Stitch's essays would definitely go in the category: "Beige Blank Slates" comes immediately to mind.

--Bikedancelaugheat (talk) 07:00, 16 June 2019 (UTC)

How would "Mary Sue Meta" or "Hurt/Comfort Meta" fit in this structure? Or future categories for other tropes and genres? --MPH (talk) 13:29, 16 June 2019 (UTC)

Race and Fandom Meta

So in July I made a timeline page for race and fandom meta and I was wondering if it would be appropriate to make a subcategory as well... there's already more than 15 pages on the timeline. Or if anyone has any other suggestions? It bothered me that all the discussions on race and racism weren't connected in any way other than the list of what pages link to Race and Fandom -- Error cascade (talk) 08:47, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

Personally I think that would be a great idea. I agree that we need more categories/subcategories around this topic in general. We could probably use a general Race and Fandom category (though I'm less sure where it would sit) but certainly a Race and Fandom Meta subcategory would be very good to have. It should probably sit under Category:Meta Essays?

Once you've created I would be happy to help add this to pages. --enchantedsleeper (talk) 09:37, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

Do you know if I need gardener permission or if it's okay since it fits under the existing site structure/is part of a fanlore project? -- Error cascade (talk) 23:00, 4 August 2020 (UTC)