User talk:Enchantedsleeper/Archive:2016-2021

Archived Talk Page: This page is an archive of talk from User talk:Enchantedsleeper, created on 21 February 2022. This page should not be edited. If you wish to continue a discussion including on this page, please do so on User talk:Enchantedsleeper, and link to this page.

Welcome Enchantedsleeper! Thank you for the recent edits on the Spider-Man & Megamind! If you happen to have any questions shoot me a message or any of the other gardeners! --Harpie (talk) 01:39, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

Hey Harpie! Thanks so much! I have really enjoyed being able to contribute my odd bits of fandom knowledge :D Especially Spiderman which was a nice nostalgia-trip back to my teen years...

Hope I can continue to be helpful! Thanks for the welcome :D -- Enchantedsleeper (talk) 22:03, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

Hide the Rum

I made a rudimentary page for this site: Hide the Rum. Maybe you can think of some things to add?

P.S. I'm loving your edits, Enchantedsleeper. :) --MPH (talk) 23:55, 22 November 2016 (UTC)

Oh, thank you!! I wanted to make a page for it but I didn't think it would be possible without some access to an archived version of the forum. I like how you did it! I'll add as much as I can remember and also try to get in touch with someone from the LJ comm to see if they can remember the URL (I think there's a high possibility it will be recorded on the Wayback Machine).

Thank you so much! o^^o I am really glad my edits have been helpful. I'm having a lot of fun contributing to Fanlore :D Thank you for being so nice and welcoming! Enchantedsleeper (talk) 12:47, 23 November 2016 (UTC)

I found this link where someone is talking about the forum. Perhaps you can use? http://allkindsofeverything.boards.net/thread/101/story-forum --MPH (talk) 13:11, 23 November 2016 (UTC)

Haha, I *just* dug that link up myself! Yes, All Kinds of Everything was created by a former HtR user in 2013 who explicitly invited other former HtR members to take part in it. I intend to add a small section for it on the HtR page :) Thank you! Enchantedsleeper (talk) 13:30, 23 November 2016 (UTC)

April Showers 2018

Enchantedsleeper! Thank you for adding shipping and canon info to the Fantastic Beasts page! Here are your badges for Days 22 and 27 of April Showers! - Somefangirl (talk) 8:15, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

Thank you!

Hi, Enchantedsleeper! I just wanted to thank you for adding Fantastic Beasts & Invisible Diversity in the Harry Potter Series, because it spurred me (/gave me the courage) to add what I know about fandom's hopes for a PoC Newt Scamander. Which is Important and needs to be documented, and I have information, but I am Still Angry and have No Chill on this subject, so writing about it calmly was a daunting prospect.

Anyway, thank you for starting the documentation! :) --Bikedancelaugheat (talk) 06:26, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

Hey, Bikedancelaugheat! All I can say is WOW :D I *love* the info that you've added on PoC!Newt, and I'm so thrilled that I played a part in helping you document it.

I've really enjoyed making pages for Stitch's awesome essays (she has so much great stuff about Harry Potter in particular), and I'm stoked to see them being interlinked with other articles and helping to make the coverage of race and fandom issues on Fanlore that much more comprehensive. Thank you for doing that, especially when it's not an easy topic for you to write about <3

Also, if you'd like a hand with fleshing out the PoC!Newt coverage, I'm more than happy to join you down that rabbit-hole :D --enchantedsleeper (talk) 15:35, 01 August 2018 (UTC)

YES, PLEASE! Any help and rabbit-hole companionship appreciated! :-) --Bikedancelaugheat (talk) 05:34, 13 August 2018 (UTC)

*pokes head in* I was working on the Ilvermorny and History of Magic in North America (and Fantastic Beasts, to a lesser extent) pages earlier in the year - one thing those are really missing is more fan reception/reaction/meta. If either of y'all find material that would fit, or create new pages that are related, it would be great to see more links to further reading on those pages! Both of y'all's edits have reminded me to get back to those pages, so thank you! - Fandomgeographies (talk) 13:45, 13 August 2018 (UTC)

Hi! Just stopping in to thank you for all your work on the J.K. Rowling and Transphobia page. I've been following the controversy and fandom reaction fairly closely the last few days and the page definitely feels comprehensive. And, unfortunately, it's an important topic to document :/ LaserBeam1 (talk) 10:02, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

Hi, LaserBeam1! Thanks so much for the kind words! I'm really glad to know the editing is appreciated. It can make for a bit of a depressing dive but I agree that it's really important to document, and fandom has come back with some amazing responses in the form of fanworks and meta as well. --enchantedsleeper (talk) 21:49, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

Creating a Category

Hi, I wanted to ask about creating the Sports Anime category? I checked [[1]] after making the sports anime page and realized need permission. It would be a subcategory of anime and manga. Please let me know if there's anything I need to prepare or fix. - Caessius

Hi Caessius, yes that's a great idea! Please go ahead! Just to clarify, were you planning to make it a subcategory of Anime or Anime & Manga Fandom? I think the first one is probably more suitable as it contains the fandom pages for different anime, whereas the other is more about fandom activity; but let me know what you were thinking.

Thanks for all your edits! --enchantedsleeper (talk) 00:22, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

Template:Cite web

Not sure what you where going for on your edit to that page, but broke how the template works. Phoenix (talk) 21:29, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

Oops, sorry about that! I should have realised. It seems like there's some odd stuff going on with the template though in that it's making everything italic - do you know why that would be? --enchantedsleeper (talk) 22:04, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

That would be from Module:Citation/CS1 which italics the author and title of the works. Phoenix (talk) 13:28, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

Okay, I see. Do we know if it's possible to change that (or use cite web without that module)?

Thanks for your help! --enchantedsleeper (talk) 21:52, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

Ive done some tweaking let me know what you think. Phoenix (talk) 15:34, 25 February 2019 (UTC)

Thank you

Thanks for your additions on the Garfield page. JKFAN (talk) 21:09, 25 February 2019 (UTC)

No problem! I enjoyed making them ;) It's a surprisingly interesting niche topic, haha. --enchantedsleeper (talk) 10:29, 02 March 2019 (UTC)

Edit on "Cats" page Question

Why keep a link that no longer exists? Thank you. JKFAN (talk) 22:45, 30 April 2019 (UTC)

Hi, JKFAN. You may have already seen the answer to this query, but just in case, our most recent email about editing concerns explained why we preserve broken links on Fanlore. For more on this, you can read our Help article on dead links and this section on preventing link rot. --enchantedsleeper (talk) 10:41, 05 May 2019 (UTC)

JKFAN is removing links again

I'm having difficulting connecting to my email right now, so I gotta do it this way.

• Here JKFAN removed Forbidden Planet because "All references on here to "Forbidden Planet" are about the movie." and that one link was about a bookshop in London.
• Here JKFAN removed In the Company of Wolves because "The page on here titled "In the Company of Wolves" is a 1990 meta essay about fan behavior." and that link was supposed to be about a J2 fic.

I am also concerned about JKFAN adding canon quotes to pages for no good reason and JKFAN uploading official logos and posters and the like. I don't know if anyone has directly told JKFAN to not do that, but I don't expect that me posting to JKFAN's talk page about any of this would actually do any good so bringing it up to you directly seemed best. - Hoopla (talk) 18:11, 5 May 2019 (UTC)

Hey Hoopla - thanks for your message and for flagging these up. I've reverted both the edits that JKFAN made above. We did directly tell JKFAN not to add official imagery/logos or canon quotes with no fannish purpose in our last warning email, which was sent 4 days ago. Since he has continued to make these types of edits, we've issued a permanent ban.

Thanks for all your help with flagging and reverting these issues, and of course for all your other great work on the wiki. -- enchantedsleeper (talk) 21:17, 5 May 2019 (UTC)

Bingo 2020

Congratulations on getting Bingo! on your Expert Bingo card! Keep going! Effietheant (talk) 12:29, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

Thank you! :3 --enchantedsleeper (talk) 12:33, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

thanks

hi, just wanted to say thanks. I'm new to all of this nd not sure what the conventions and etiquette is for now - LadyCaryatid

Template:'

I assume you got the point of it now? –MJL ‐Talk‐^☖ 02:15, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

Hi, MJL! Yes, I have a better understanding of the template now. I didn't really think there was an issue with the way that apostrophes display in the first place, but if you have strong feelings on that, then the template makes sense. Maybe we could add some brief directions to the template page about what it does and why editors might like to use it? --enchantedsleeper (talk) 08:29, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

Two matters

1. I've run up against condescension from Kingstoken at least twice in the last couple of weeks. The other time was on Talk:Loki (Marvel character). I chose not to reply after my initial comment. We've been contributing to Fanlore for around the same amount of time (late 2017 for them, early 2018 for me) and so this approach toward me very much feels uncalled-for and discourteous. I appreciate that taking an "I know more about how wiki categorization works" line in a discussion is also condescending, but the context here is that I feel like Kingstoken points to the rulebook to shut down suggestions I make. I was defensive because I've felt my input has been repeatedly dismissed.

2. Ellakbhesse‎‎ has been adding machine-translated text to articles. It's great to have a non-Anglosphere contributor helping build a global view of fandom. But I do feel there needs to be some quality control. Machine translation does not always make for clarity or accuracy. So I think something needs to worked out. Perhaps large machine-translated additions could be posted as drafts and checked over by an English-speaking contributor before being added to mainspace? Night Rain (talk) 00:57, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

I think that we are in a situation here where each of us is reading very different things into the other's words. While I don't want to get drawn into making judgements about other editors' intentions, I believe Kingstoken was simply trying to offer a counter-point to what you were saying. Citing Fanlore's Help documentation or guidance on a topic isn't snide; it's simply pointing to the reasoning for why we do things a certain way here - something that many of your Talk page comments have been questioning.

I appreciate that your intentions are to make constructive suggestions, but you often come off as dismissive of the way Fanlore is run - as you said yourself, "taking an "I know more about how wiki categorization works" line". Not every editor is going to agree with this wholeheartedly.

As for the idea of "quality control", that's not something that we feel the need to enforce on Fanlore, and I would like to point out to you that the line you are taking in this discussion right now comes off as condescending to a new editor who is trying their best, and who is contributing in good faith to Fanlore. Again, I know you are trying to make a constructive suggestion, but I think you should be aware of how this comes across, and also be aware that the things you are saying about other editors on a public Talk page can and will be read by them.

If you have issues with the way that things are done on Fanlore, I would like to encourage you to use the contact form to send them to us directly; or if you prefer, you can use this form to email me. --enchantedsleeper (talk) 16:00, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

Night Rain thanks for quoting me. I agree as long as the questions of my edits. I am not an English speaker and therefore many of my editions are not of good quality. I ask for forgiveness I would like some native English speaker to support me more in this regard. Yes I use the translator for many or all the movements I do here on Fanlore Maybe this is a mistake. If you wish I leave the edits gladly. Ellakbhesse (talk) 01:03, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

Please don't think I'm saying you've made bad contributions. You have made very good contributions! It's just that, when words are translated with a machine translator like Google Translate, it doesn't always give the best results. The translation can usually be understood, but there is often something strange about it. It reads as strange for a native speaker. This is not your fault! It's a problem with machine translators. Machine translators let us understand each other on a basic level. But they are not very good at translating complex sentences or ideas. That's why I'm suggesting using drafts. We value your contributions! But if the only way for you to contribute is by using a translator, then I think we need to work together to make the best articles we can. Once again: this isn't your fault. You aren't making mistakes. The machine translator is. Night Rain (talk) 01:28, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

Ellakbhesse, please do not worry one bit. We love your contributions and we are really pleased to have you contributing to Fanlore - not everyone is a native English speaker, which can be a barrier to us receiving edits from international fans, and I'm delighted that you are interested and willing to contribute anyway. We honestly do not have a problem with you using machine translation, so please don't think that those edits are unwelcome. --enchantedsleeper (talk) 13:39, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

enchantedsleeper for many years I felt insecure about providing online support because I didn't know a foreign language. On several wikia sites that I decided to participate I received favorable and negative feedback, more from the latter than from the previous one. I recently got a big wave of hate from a single edit - not here on Fanlore I want to make it clear - that made me give up editing on other wikis. But on Fanlore I was still editing because I felt I was improving the site, helping other fannish like me.Growing up in a Portuguese-speaking country that consumed for many years from the foreign source without realizing that our environment was different from yours. I just planned to make more space for other Portuguese and Spanish speaking authors here, but I was very discouraged and saddened by the comments I received on the other site and awui So, being an insecure and reclusive person, I don't feel like I'm helping anymore, but getting in the way. It is likely that I will no longer edit and support Fanlore. Ellakbhesse (talk) 04:15, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

Dear Ellakbhesse,

I would like to encourage you to keep on editing on Fanlore. I enjoyed reading your edits since you joined our community earlier this year.

Please don’t worry about the quality of your English- I know from personal experience that it can be hard to communicate in a foreign language. Your English is fine!

It doesn’t matter that you use an automatic translator to support your writing, quite the contrary. There is no shame in using the tools you need and there is nothing, absolutely nothing, in Fanlore’s regulations that bans the use of machine translators.

I’d even say that finding help when you need it is a smart thing to do and I’d like to congratulate you on your choice to use a translator to help your writing.

Also, it is very brave of you to step forward and share your knowledge and insight with us despite your insecurities.

Please believe me, your voice is valued on Fanlore. Don’t let one person ruin this for you.

I would dearly love to read more edits from you. Take your time, relax, but please, come back. Trust me, you’d be sorely missed.

Yours, --SecurityBreach (talk) 08:23, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

Ellakbhesse: I would like to second everything that SecurityBreach has said in their lovely message above. Your contributions here have been so valued and valuable, and I would be so, so sorry to lose you from our community.

Please don't think that Night Rain's comments are representative of Fanlore - many of us have been excited to see your edits appearing on Fanlore, and we have been delighted to have you here. Your goal of making space for other Portuguese- and Spanish-speaking authors here is a wonderful one and we all wholeheartedly support that goal, and support you making contributions to Fanlore in whatever way you can. We're honoured that you wanted to contribute to our community in this way.

I would also agree with SecurityBreach that using machine translation isn't a problem - on the contrary, I wouldn't have known you were using a translator! As they said, it's a smart and resourceful thing to do, and does not get in the way of anything at all. We have many non-native English speakers here on Fanlore, and that's wonderful. We place having a diversity of voices on this wiki far, far above any perceived notion of "quality control", and anyone who claims otherwise is not speaking for Fanlore, but rather trying to impose their own prejudices.

I'd like to close off by saying again that we have been really happy to have you here with us on Fanlore, and I'd love nothing more than to have you remain part of the community. I hope you will consider it <3

Best, enchantedsleeper (talk) 08:37, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

You asked me to assume good faith of Kingstoken and not read condescension where none may have been intended. I would ask that you hold yourself to this same standard and not read unkindness into the concerns I have expressed about Ellakbhesse's use of machine translation. I have not knowingly said anything unkind to Ellakbhesse. I have tried to be supportive and reassuring, and to offer solutions and help instead of recrimination. And I have tried to keep my words to Ellakbhesse as clear and concise as possible in the hope that they will translate better and help avoid misunderstanding. ("Reads strange to native English speakers" is not my ideal wording, but it seemed like it would translate better than a more detailed explanation of syntax and sentence structure considerations).

I approached you about this because I didn't want to lay my concerns at Ellakbhesse's feet. I was (and am) willing to defer to community consensus on this. But, during my time as an admin on a fan wiki, I saw the complications that can arise from allowing machine translated text in mainspace. We had a troll who repeatedly abused our inclusive policy to sneak insults and hate content into articles. They claimed the offensive content was a mistake produced by Google Translate, not intentional. In the end, the wiki enacted a blanket ban on machine-translated text in articles. Good work had to be discarded because we just didn't have the editor pool to check everything. A number of good-faith contributors were understandably upset. I wish it hadn't come to that, but sometimes tough calls must be made. And so I suppose that was my hope here: to create the means for non-Anglophone contributors to add to Fanlore's body of knowledge while minimizing the possibility of the kind of complications I've run into in the past.

One of the aims of an encyclopedia is to be an accessible source of information to readers. To make articles accessible to readers, some degree of polishing is needed (perhaps "quality control" was a poor word choice, but it was the shortest description that sprang to mind). Broken links ought to be fixed. Typos ought to be corrected. And sentences that are worded in unclear ways might be re-worded for greater clarity. That's not "prejudice." I am extremely hurt that you would characterize my concerns as such. Wikis are collaborative projects. They mean working together and building upon each other's work.

I have not felt welcome here. I have not felt valued. I have not felt included. And I have not felt that my voice has been heard. I feel as if my ideas and concerns have either been dismissed or ignored. To my knowledge, a year later, the ableist trolling I uncovered on Autism and Fandom has not been investigated. This trolling was deeply hurtful to read as an autistic. I do not feel that my contributions are recognized or appreciated. I've expanded and created several articles in the last couple of months, taking care to find quotations representing a diverse range of perspectives for PPOV. I have searched for and added dozens of pieces of CC-licensed fanart to articles. I don't want a fanfare or anything, but a "keep up the good work" from someone, anyone, would've been nice. I feel as if this community collectively decided I'm a persona non grata long ago and has been hoping I'll just quietly leave for good. Which now that I've said my piece, I will do. Night Rain (talk) 13:50, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

Night Rain, I'm very sorry that you feel that way. However, as I said above, if you have issues with the way that things are being done on Fanlore, you should use the contact form to contact the Fanlore Committee and submit feedback, or else you can email me directly if you wish. Both of those would be better forums for this conversation to take place. --enchantedsleeper (talk) 18:46, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

One user receives thoughtful multi-paragraph responses assuring them they are welcome and Fanlore is an inclusive place. I get the classic "I'm sorry you feel that way" (i.e., it's your fault for being an oversensitive bother) brush-off and told to out myself if I want to taken seriously. And considering I have just told you I am autistic and that I do not feel welcome here, your response tells me everything I need to know about Fanlore's culture of inclusivity. "Diversity of voices" does not include me. Night Rain (talk) 23:59, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

Regarding the Autism and Fandom discussion, I think this brings up an important point about how we use and utilise the talk pages on the site. As someone who first started editing in October, I didn't see the page before it was changed by Night Rain in the August, and subsequently had no idea the discussion on the talk page had taken place. Chances are, many other users, though admittedly maybe not all, simply missed the issue that had been discussed and rectified. That it's taken a full year give or take for it to be brought to attention again is telling as to how the talk pages and the engagement in any important discussions had could, and I argue should, be vastly improved.

An attention gardeners template could have been used, either on the talk page or the main page, but then it would have only really alerted the gardeners. Could a rethink of the template be had? Should we encourage more liberal use of it on pages where discussions have happened on talk pages? Could we create an additional template pointing out issues or discussions have and are happening in the talks, and a place on the site we can easily find them all?

It's made a little difficult whenever issues like this arise as there's no obligation or necessity for users to reveal personal info to people (which is good), which means the user who made the edits to the page which were then subsequently changed could very well have been autistic themselves. Unlikely? Perhaps. But not impossible, and I think that complicates things. They also appear to have left the site several months before the edits to the page happened, so little dialogue can be had with the original user. -- OfMonstersAndWerewolves (talk) 11:20, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

Night Rain, at no point did I want to take any kind of attention that should be for you. Or get Fanlore to give me preference in this discussion. Between the two of us, you're the one who's been here the longest, the one who knows the fandom best, and the only one who speaks native English. I would like you not to delete your account solely because I received supportive comments and you received an apology line. Who has more right to continue editing and organizing this site is you and not me. So I apologize if by chance my contributions got in the way or somehow led to this discussion. You are right when you say that editing using a translator is not right. I'm being a fake, taking the place of good editors and making trouble. I just wouldn't want to be the one to blame for you leaving Fanlore. I never wanted to create that situation, make it sound like my voice is worth more than yours. Because do not have. Compare an editor who has been on the site for over 4 years with me who arrived here not a few months ago would be inappropriate. enchantedsleeper and SecurityBreach thanks for the words, but i shouldn't be getting them when it's night rain that's hurting. I'm being irritating and leading to greater embarrassment. Ellakbhesse (talk) 13:14, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

Dear Ellakabhesse,

Please don't feel this your fault. I am not upset with you. You have been helpful and kind in your time on Fanlore. I do not feel you are trying to take away from my situation. I am upset that gardeners (this is what admins are called on Fanlore) have been more patient and kind to you than to me. I feel that gardeners should treat everyone fairly and listen to all of our concerns. You did not create this situation. You have found yourself in the middle of it because of bad luck. I am sorry that this has happened to you. I never meant to cause you any distress.

What happened is that Kingstoken said something I thought was impolite on another page. I lost my cool and was impolite to Kingstoken. Then Enchantersleeper told me I should be more polite to Kingstoken. I felt it was unfair for Enchantedsleeper to only tell me to be more polite, and not give this reminder to Kingstoken as well. I came here to Enchantedsleeper's page to talk about the situation with Kingstoken. At the same time I mentioned my thoughts on machine translation to Enchantedsleeper. I thought it would be a good idea to make one post, so that Enchantedsleeper would only have to reply to me once. But I see now this was not a very good idea. It has created a misunderstanding. There are two different conversations happening here. Things have gotten mixed up.

Enchantedsleeper and SecurityBreach have said not to worry about the translator. I am not worried about the translator any more. I had some worries before, but I don't think they are important any more. Please don't feel discouraged. I hope you will continue contributing to Fanlore. Your article about Ripping was very informative and taught me about something I didn't know about before.

Take care. :)

(I wasn't going to say anything else in this discussion, but I felt it was important to clear things up with Ellakabhesse, as best as I can.) Night Rain (talk) 14:54, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

Stub September 2021

Hi Enchantedsleeper, thank you so much for participating in Stub September 2021 and for your additions to Secret Relationship and Forbidden Love. Please accept this shiny new badge as a reward for your hard work. Thanks for all you do and happy editing :D --eliadan (talk) 20:30, 16 September 2021 (UTC)