The Beauty and the Beast Consummation Scene
| Synonyms: | roses and lava, the cave scene |
| See also: | First Time (genre)
 A 1992 limerick by a fan is a reference to the the 1986 Dallas Dream Season and the creativity, and frustrating ridiculousness, of TPTB's decision-making. [1] |
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The consummation scene (often referred to as "roses and lava") between Vincent Wells and Catherine Chandler in the Beauty and the Beast (TV) episode "Though Lovers Be Lost" was a long-awaited event. It was also, for many fans, a great and silly disappointment.
Fans found the surreal collage of flowers and music as a metaphor for sexual intercourse to be ridiculous, cryptic, hurried, unsatisfying, and offensive for several reasons.
The first reason was because it was presented as a collage of cheesy images of flowing lava and opening flowers accompanied by music, "The First Time I Loved Forever."
The second because the scene was one in which Vincent was apparently unconscious. Because of this, Catherine Chandler's sexual contact with him was non-consensual.
The third reason was that not only does Vincent not remember the scene, he doesn't remember Catherine Chandler for a time afterwards, something that fans found heartbreaking.
Scene Description
Vincent Wells, appearing to go mad, wanders deeper into the Tunnels, and Catherine Chandler, hearing his howling anguish. He nearly attacks her in a mindless rage, but stops at the last minute, and collapses, unconscious. Catherine kisses him, and the lava and roses montage kicks in.
From a transcription of the episode "Though Lovers Be Lost":
CATHERINE: (puts head on chest again)
Not without me!
I won't let you. I won't let you.
Rises up and tenderly kisses him on the mouth.
Theme music plays The First Time I Loved Forever
Rose opening petals, fiery explosion, Vincent and Catherine's hands reaching to clasp together, images of Vincent and Catherine, rose opening, fiery explosion, scene from Masques on bench, flashes of rose, explosion, hands unclasping, fades to - entrance to tunnel. [2]
Tropes and Themes in Fanworks
A phrase often used in this fandom to describe the pivotal scene is What Happened in the Cave.
Another phrase that fans use to describe Vincent's rage in the "lava and roses" scene is Beast-Out.
Comments from "Textual Poachers: Television Fans and Participatory Culture": 1992
From the book Textual Poachers: Television Fans and Participatory Culture:
[Fans'] intense displeasure in the third season fed upon several years of disappointment in the series' refusal to gratify their romantic fantasies, a history of TV Guide blurbs promising romantic interludes which proved more teasing than gratifying, and scenes that edge toward romantic commitment, only to be interrupted or to have the characters back away from consummation. If, for many fans, the cryptic and hurried consummation in "Though Lovers Be Lost ... ," the third season opener (with its trite images of "lava flowing and flowers opening") was a "ludicrous nightmare," denying viewers the desired warmth and intimacy, that moment was simply the last in a series of "insults" to their hopes and expectations: "They were tremendously electric scenes but afterwards you just felt annoyed." [3]
Comments by TPTB
Comments by Victor Lobl (director): 1990
More flapdoodle involves Director Victor Lobl. Rumours circulated that he had said something at TunnelCon to the effect that the entire movie "Though Lovers Be Lost" was the biggest embarrassment of his career. Let's not make the man regret his candor. Yes, the word "embarrassment" was used, but in reference to the love scene's fireworks and roses collage, not the entire production. [4]
...where was the consummation scene? Mr. Lobl frankly admitted that this was a real embarrassment to him. Apparently he fought to shoot the scene properly (i.e. with some physical contact) but the final decision was not his. He left us with the definite impression that what we saw was Ron Koslow's choice, based in part on a fear of the possible negative reaction from the moral majority to something more specific. [5]
Comments by Ron Koslow (creator): 1990
Koslow remains equally coy when it comes to discussing the unique sex scene which produced Catherine and Vincent's child, initially dubbed Julian by Gabriel and later renamed Jacob by Vincent in the last scene of "Invictus," Beauty's final episode. "It was a surreal interlude and what happened between the two of them doesn't need much explaining," claims the show's creator. "Clearly, Catherine did what she had to do to bring Vincent back to life" after he had been traumatized by Paracelsus (Tony Jay) at the second season's end. [6]
Comments by George R.R. Martin (writer and producer): 1993
The bestiality thing was a concern with certain network execs, and some crazed viewers out there, but it was not the reason for the “no-kissing” rule. Koslow, Witt-Thomas, and CBS were all afraid of going too fast and losing the sexual tension.
[...]
The thing you have to remember, however, is that right up through the trilogy, all of us on the show were quite confident that B&B would run four or five seasons, minimum. The day that Tony Thomas phoned me and said CBS had only picked us up as a 12-episode mid-season, instead of giving us a full order for 22 and a place on the fall schedule, I was shocked. I really never saw it coming. Then we had the bombshell of Linda leaving us, which everyone knows about, and the less-heralded but equally crucial replacement of Kim LeMasters by Jeff Sagansky, and... well, you all know how the story ends.
The famous lava and roses sequence and the whole cave/pregnancy thing was the writers desperately vamping. We never expected to have to go that far so fast, after having proceeded at a glacial pace up to then. Left to a more natural progression, Catherine and Vincent’s romance would have gone very slowly indeed, stretched out over a full five seasons. [7]
Fanworks in Response
Fiction
- One Night, Forever by Deborah A. Martin (addresses the loose ends about that scene in the cavern) (1990)
- One Night, Forever by Joy Faulkner (fills in the love scene from "Though Lovers Be Lost") (unknown date)
- Choices by Debbie Ristick ("This brief Classic novel takes off from the opening of “Though Lovers Be Lost,” splitting into an alternate timeline wherein Vincent, remembering nothing of what went on in the cave, withdraws from Catherine, who meanwhile learns she's pregnant." [8]) (1991)
- Night of Love by Debbie Nockels (a rewrite of the love scene from "Though Lovers Be Lost" (1991)
Vids
- "First Time I Loved Forever," an early music vid with poetry and music overlaid with the roses and lava consummation scene, by Kim Taylor
Comments by Fans
1989
Well, I feel as though I have been run over by an emotional dump truck. [The episode] “Though Lovers Be Lost” was a disappointment to me. What happened? WHY wasn’t the consummation scene handled better than that? I thought all those suffocating rules were going to be “smashed”. I did NOT get what I wanted. During the roses and lava scene I was muttering to myself, “THIS is IT?? That’s all??” It’s sad to say, but that first bitter disappointment (even before the credits stopped rolling) set the tone for the rest of the show. [9]
1990
The supposed "love scene" in "Though Lovers Be Lost..." was so disappointing - I really felt cheated.[10]
Wow, it was a surprise to learn that Catherine and Vincent were blessed with a child through their physical joining (her kiss when he had collapsed in the tunnel) and not sexual intercourse. I know, some of you believe that they made love “off camera”, but that is not my opinion. Isn’t it great to have a variety of ideas about the conception? And all the implications of the loss of the bond, or the alteration of its manifestation! Incredible! [11]
For two years, we've waited for that grand, passionate kiss of our dreams and what we get instead is mouth-to-mouth resuscitation and not much of that! ... The fact that Vincent never once remembered that anything had happened just makes it worse. For him, subjectively speaking, nothing did happen. And now that she's dead, nothing can ever happen.... Why did the writers deny this experience to Vincent and Catherine (and to us) when they'll never have the chance again?! [12]
I waited with bated breath through those endless (but, I realize, important) opening commercials and was finally able to relax when I saw Catherine walk into the tunnel. My heart was in my mouth, let me tell you! And what happens? He is unconscious when she kisses him; they have "metaphorical" sex ...; when Father finds them they are not even slightly disheveled (!); Vincent can't remember WHO she is; she doesn't feel like telling him she's pregnant when he can't even remember her name; the Bond is broken (talk about telegraphing information); we have NO kiss, NO romance, NO poetry... [13]
I’m sorry but I have not waited 2 years to see undulating roses. [14]
Possible topics for next month: Was it A) Bestiality, B) Necrophilia, or C) Immaculate conception? Stay tuned. [15]
I'm so glad you wrote "One Night, Forever"! What a wonderful scene your version could have been if it had been filmed, sigh. After all the fan's patience I still can't believe they gave us flowers blooming and lava flowing! At least now I can imagine ("One Night, Forever") in its proper place. [16]
The consummation was a travesty. I understand that it was supposed to be a mythic union, not a physical one (producing a physical child?). What a crock!!! Yes, I wanted to see a romantic love scene with flowers, candles and Vincent bending over Catherine but I'd even accept the lava and roses bit if Vincent had been conscious and aware of what was going on before and disheveled and holding Catherine in his arms afterwards. [17]
That pathetic consummation scene was like something out of a Pee Wee Herman movie. Exploding roses and flowing lava! Vincent, if Catherine made "the earth move for you," you were still out in La La Land as were the viewers. All of us are a little more intelligent than that. Gone were any traces or hints of the tenderness and compassion that they shared.
Instead, it was like watching 2 total strangers. "You're the woman I love, but I can't remember your name." Not only did Vincent forget making love to Catherine but he can't even remember who she is. I haven't met a guy yet who can't remember his first time! Even Ron P. and Linda H. seemed to have difficult in keeping a straight face throughout these scenes. Was the scene of Catherine vomiting due to the drugs or more Linda's reaction to the script? [18]
People say that CBS censors couldn't allow love scenes with Vincent. He's more human than most; for example, he’s the only hero to agonize over the deaths he has caused. His love and caring have been models for all. And he has to be human, because, genetically, he couldn't otherwise father Catherine's child.
Viewers expected, from well-written earlier episodes, that Vincent's concerns about intimacy would be handled in a "richly rewarding" way. Instead, a cop-out: Catherine kisses a dead Vincent (what magnificent drama, if his revival had been shown!). Then inadequate flames and roses replace sensitively and beautifully handled cuddling, Vincent's acceptance of Catherine's willingness, and the beginning of their spiritual or physical intercourse. Or did Catherine have sex with a dead body or with Vincent unconscious or too weak to object? Did Vincent block off his memory as the only way he could cope psychologically with his dark side, or because he was raped? Or did Catherine have an immaculate conception? Showing necrophilia and implying rape, and later showing the torture of a pregnant woman and her murder, are acceptable, but showing SOME intimacy between loving adults isn't? [19]
...writing a love scene isn't the only thing the writers were suddenly ignorant of. [20]
Unfortunately, Republic set rather a bad precedent by reportedly editing-out the love scene in order [on the new videotapes being sold] to run the show's credits over the 'fire & roses' collage in their "Though Lovers Be Lost' release. One reader spoke of being so disgusted that she returned the tape for a refund, something she ordinarily "wouldn't dream of doing because she is such a supporter of the show." Let's hope that sales are not too badly affected since one tape's success insures the release of another. [21]
More flapdoodle involves Director Victor Lobl. Rumours circulated that he had said something at TunnelCon to the effect that the entire movie "Though Lovers Be Lost" was the biggest embarrassment of his career. Let's not make the man regret his candor. Yes, the word "embarrassment" was used, but in reference to the love scene's fireworks and roses collage, not the entire production. [22]
Actually, come to think of it, the only thing besides Catherine dying that REALLY bothered me was that #X»*&#X$IX$"!!! lava and roses blooming...s...tuff.[23]
1991
I would like to direct this to the male B&TB fans. CBS wanted to bring more people to watch, so they thought they would dangle bait to help matters. Who were the major, important viewers? The fans, or someone else? Where did the strength lie with the Nielsens? It was the women who were the majority of viewers, but we were not strong enough. So who would be? It must be the male audience! What would draw mem to this show? I could see the executives of CBS sitting around a table clapping their hands together. "We need violence! Where do we begin? Get Catherine Chandler and give us TLBL." We do not have to go into those details again, we all know what happened in that. Well, men, did that give you a better enjoyment of our beloved show? What does CBS think our men, or the men we hope to have in our lives believe in? Is this what entertainment is? It is scary to think people do love, enjoy, and believe in this. Why can anyone not understand why we women love Vincent? He is everything we believe in. It is for the male audience that the consummation between Vincent and Catherine was done the way it was. (Why give them anything but roses and volcanos?) Did men who felt threatened by our love of Vincent want to see anything beautiful happen between this Man-Beast and a beautiful woman? It would hurt their ego. What was now important to ratings was, get to the "meat" of the show. One fan once called those of us who wanted to see something just a little more tender and visual happen between Vincent and Catherine "voyeurs." I did not want to see Vincent throw Catherine down on the ground and jump on her. But I thought there should have been a lot more dignity involved than Vincent looking at Catherine a little later and not even knowing her name. Was the road then being paved for the end? [24]
1992
The long-delayed consummation scene was reduced to a succession of quick and cliched images. So cryptic and confusing was the sequence that some fans have jokingly referred to Catherine's baby as the result of an "immaculate conception." Rather than using consummation to achieve greater trust and intimacy between two lovers, of resolving the conflicts separating them, sexual intercourse broke the empathic bond that joined them; Vincent lost his memory not only of that moment but of much that transpired between the couple. [25]
Unlike those episodes, this novel does not end on a cliffhanger, with Catherine's distant voice, from the cave, screaming Vincent's name. It goes beyond, into the opening moments of "Though Lovers Be Lost," the opening of Third Season, to dramatize how Catherine brought Vincent back from death through their becoming "truly one." No lava and roses here, folks. [26]
1993
[from the open letter in poem form by Lynette Combs]:[...]
- Consummation is fine.
- Hold the lava on mine;
- no allusive explosions of roses.
- To unite these two souls
- implies more (check the polls)
- than a floral dream-sequence exposes.
[...] [27]
- A kiss would be nice.
- Here's some friendly advice;
- they should both remain conscious to do it.
- If conception's in store
- then it's got to be more
- than a baby two people intuit.
1994
Fans [are] first discovering the series on the SF channel and calling in to report they thought nobody else could understand how fascinating they've found it and where did the baby come from and what do the lava and roses mean??? [28]
1995
After that, two "circulating" Republic Pictures guys talked to fans at various tables and got earfuls on what we wanted to see in a movie (V & C together for most of it, no lava and roses, all of the Tunnel people). [29]
Personally I think a second season storyline would satisfy no one and infuriate many. Kinda like Lava and Roses. Now there is a good name for a zine if ever I heard one! :) [30]
1996
Actually, the conception is supposed to have taken place in the cavern where Vincent retreats at the end of THE REST IS SILENCE. Catherine goes in after him (in THOUGH LOVERS BE LOST), you'll recall, and the screen goes to clasping hands and lava and roses - making some of us extremely wary of holding hands with a man while in the same room with lava lamps and blooming flowers! So no, you didn't miss anything. Probably you just blinked. :) [31]
1997
My only other criteria [for the movie] would be that we get at least one "real" kiss at some point during this movie. That was something that always bothered during the run of this series. For crying out loud, at least give me that. I've had it with roses and lava and superimposed images. This time I want it to be real.
I don't need a "consummation" scene to bring closure to these characters but I would like to see some type of forward movement in that direction. An actual kiss isn't a bad place to start. [32]
To me it seemed that Koslow just couldn't bring himself to deal with the issue of actually consummating the relationship in a real sense. And so we get lava, roses, super-imposed images, yadda, yadda, yadda!!!! <G> And, again, I reiterate I don't need "a consummation scene" but I'd have liked some "real kisses" to show that the relationship was "real" and "physical." My imagination can do the rest. [33]
I'd like to see the TV movie pick up where Catherine goes into that cave and rescues Vincent but no pro-creation <G> happens between them. Read that as no lava and roses! <G> She goes in there and he collapses just as his "dark side" is about to attack her as it was shown. She holds him for dear life and just as she fears he is slipping away from her (read that as no heartbeat), she then kisses him. A true, on the mouth, real kiss!!!! :-) (NOTE: This is how I feel it should have been done the first time around!!! <G>) Only Vincent will not remember this kiss! All he will remember is that he believes he hurt her in that cave. [34]
1998
For crying out loud, if there is a God, let's hope that TPTB let them have a real kiss. I'd like to live to see a real passionate kiss acted out between these two sometime in my lifetime! <G>
So, help me, if I were to see an ounce of smoke fly up in the background, a shadow in the background or lava and roses, I'd probably be out for blood. :-)
Ahhh, maybe one of these days, if I wish real hard, I may get the true V & C kiss that I've always wanted! [35]
With regard to TLBL, I certainly agree. Open the floodgates and damn the torpedos! <G> If there ever was a reason to explain how Jacob arrived in the world, it certainly wasn't with lava and roses! <G> [36]
Well, let me just say this....if you haven't ever seen 3rd season. I guarantee you will HATE lava and roses by the time 3rd season begins! <EG>
I think the trilogy was very "intense". It's the only word I can use to describe the events detailed there. There are so many roads not taken with the events of the trilogy. I wanted the show to desperately examine Vincent's psyche during this trilogy. Catherine loves him with an undying devotion and it's plain to see especially in "Ceremony of Innocence" (the 2nd trilogy ep).
Once you see the beginning of 3rd season, you'll understand why most of us Classic fans hate lava and roses! <G> [37]
For all intensive purposes, the show was on its way to being declared DOA as soon as we got lava and roses and things kind of snowballed and went downhill from there because you knew what was coming next. As far as I'm concerned, the show ended as soon we ended up on that roof with V & C . And even then I couldn't get the kiss I wanted! Ugh!!!!!! :-( All TLBL does for me is frustrate me!!!!!! [38]
Well, what can you say about Teri! <G> She definitely gets my vote for head writer/story editor on a B & B movie!!! Somebody with some sense has to be smacking Koslow around when it comes to the kissing scenes!!! <G> I've said it before and I'll say it again.....if I see any more lava, roses, shadows, I will head up a posse and put a price on Koslow's head!!! <G> [39]
IMO it is possible to take the lava and roses as symbolic of their passion being finally allowed to bloom; but, that does not mean that it was consummated there. [40]
2006
Of Flames and Roses: IMHO, my interpretation is that this music montage symbolizes the Bond and Catherine’s spiritual journey on the silver thread of connection to Vincent’s soul. The opening rose is the clarity of the Bond blooming within her. The flame is her love, a beacon of light and warmth for a wounded soul to move toward. Perhaps, the fireball is Vincent fighting off the last of his resistance to Catherine’s love and the final meshing of his natures. He must break free to live. Perhaps it is the fusing of their souls. Symbolized by their hands touching, Catherine’s love and passion is reaching for his tired and retreating soul, he finds the strength to reach for her love, their souls touch. She captures him up and brings him back from the brink of death. (So, I am a hopeless romantic.)
Tangent: Lava and Roses. Some fans love this sequence, others hate this sequence, still others gag on it. There is little satisfaction in the sappy, unfulfilling sequence of blooming roses and “flames of passion.” Sort of in the same mood as the “shadow” kiss at the end of “A Happy Life.” Fans would have been much happier with a good, deep, passionate kiss with Vincent awake and participating. <sigh> (If only.)
To be perfectly honest: We do not know what happened in that cave. On the one hand, the symbolism is obvious. On the other, take into account the status of C &Vs relationship. I will let each fan decide for themselves what happened between them in the cave and leave “what, where, when, and how” to your own imaginations.
There are two POVs that I have encountered. First, is that the sequence means that they consummated their relationship. (This is TPTB intent. ) In one giant swoop after two years of a platonic relationship, their love is fulfilled. I have no idea if we are to believe that Vincent was a willing partner or that Catherine had her way with his unconscious body. (Fanfic has run every scenario.) The second POV is that they did not. IMHO, I do not logically see how Vincent and Catherine consummated their relationship because (1) Vincent is unconscious and there is no way Catherine would take advantage of him in such a state. She loves and respects him too much. (2) Vincent and Catherine are fully clothed and not a stitch is out of place. Vincent is a big, heavy man. Catherine would have a hard time moving him around. (3) Vincent does not remember anything that happened in the cave and I would think he would remember making love to Catherine.
In addition, I will maintain my “mind set” in sharing my thoughts on the episodes that “I do not know what is going to happen next.” Therefore, I have not found out what really happened in the cave until the events of Season Three begin---so in a “Classic” sense---the “Lava and Roses” sequence is open to each fan’s own interpretation. (And, I respect each and every POV.) [41]
2019
There was no easy solution to the romantic situation. The sexual tension between the two added to the excitement and uncertainty, and yet they were already waxing lyrical about their impossible love by episode two. The delicate balance was not helped by a conservative network who didn’t even want the eponymous lovers to kiss for fear of bestiality accusations. Season 1 ended in a consummation of sorts, in which the writers tried to balance the warring demands of network and fanbase with a few moments of physical affection, the result of which was the infamous ‘soul kiss’ in which Catherine and Vincent finally locked lips – but only in silhouette, and even the embrace itself was presented as metaphorical one rather than literal. The only other times they kissed onscreen were in the season 2 episode ‘Orphans’ and in the season 3 opener, the latter of which immediately precedes perhaps the cringiest lovemaking montage in visual media (featuring very little of the characters and rather a lot of roses bursting into bloom and volcanoes erupting in slow-motion as a syrupy song version of the series’ love theme plays). I think it’s because Beauty and the Beast wanted to have its cake and eat it too in regard to being both a family show AND a mature romance. It couldn’t successfully be both, and at some point, they had to choose – when they finally did, it was too late. [42]
References
- ^ printed in Once Upon a Time... Is Now (~ December 1992, special issue)
- ^ Though Loves Be Lost Transcript, Archived version -- archive link
- ^ from Textual Poachers
- ^ from Pipeline v.3 n.11 (November 1990)
- ^ PILLOWED AND LEID IN LAS VEGAS: A Trip Report on Tunnel Con I, by Sandra Burrows and Anne Simpson (1990)], Archived version
- ^ from Starlog
- ^ GRRM Discussion Posts 1993 to 1995 (Wed Mar 17, 1993)
- ^ from The Beauty & the Beast Buyer's Guide to Fanzines
- ^ from Once Upon a Time...Is Now #17 (December 1989)
- ^ from Shadows of the City March 1990
- ^ from Once Upon a Time...Is Now #18 (January 1990)
- ^ from Once Upon a Time...Is Now #18 (January 1990)
- ^ from Once Upon a Time...Is Now #19 (February 1990)
- ^ from Once Upon a Time...Is Now #19 (February 1990)
- ^ from Once Upon a Time...Is Now #19 (February 1990)
- ^ from Shadows of the City (March 1990)
- ^ from Once Upon a Time... Is Now #20 (March 1990)
- ^ from Once Upon a Time...Is Now #20 (March 1990)
- ^ from Once Upon a Time...Is Now #21 (April 1990)
- ^ from Once Upon a Time...Is Now #22 (May 1990)
- ^ from Pipeline v.3 n.11 (November 1990)
- ^ from Pipeline v.3 n.11 (November 1990)
- ^ from the editorial in Wishes and Dreams #2 (1990)
- ^ from Tunneltalk v.2 n.3 (May 1991)
- ^ from Textual Poachers (1992)
- ^ "review". Archived from the original on 2002-03-08. of Beyond Words, Beyond Silence
- ^ See more at "Dear Mr. Koslow"
- ^ from Of Love and Hope Newsletter
- ^ from a con report for A Distant Shore (1995)
- ^ from Of Love and Hope Newsletter
- ^ from Of Love and Hope Newsletter
- ^ from Linda Hamilton and a BATB Movie (December 11, 1997)
- ^ from Linda Hamilton and a BATB Movie (December 20, 1997)
- ^ from Catherine and a BATB movie (December 24, 1997)
- ^ from M7 ep tonight (Jan 21, 1998)
- ^ From Below to Above, the First Two Seasons (Jan 25, 1998)
- ^ 3rd Season.....I'm so drepressed. :( (Feb 20, 1998)
- ^ B&B (Feb 26, 1998)
- ^ wow! I'm BACK! -Reply (March 17, 1998)
- ^ from TLBL discussion (June 24, 1998)
- ^ My Two Cents
- ^ from Once Upon a Time is Now: Looking Back at Beauty and the Beast (1987-1990) (2019)
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