Late for Breakfast/Issues 28-29
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Late for Breakfast is a multi-fandom letterzine. There were 31 issues published between 1989 and 1997.
Issue 28
Late for Breakfast 28 was edited by Carla S. It was published in about January 1996 and contains 50 pages.
front cover of #28, by Roo: It portrays Spock and Kirk (Star Trek: TOS), Doyle and Bodie (The Professionals), Illya and Solo (The Man from U.N.C.L.E.), Q and Picard (Star Trek: TNG), Starsky and Hutch (Starsky & Hutch), Sam and Al (Quantum Leap), and in the center, Rutger Hauer and Harrison Ford (Blade Runner)
- includes a ballot for the 1996 Stiffie Awards
- there is a con report for Friscon
- there is a list of British zines eligible for Stiffies
- there is a review of the for-profit book "Swamp Foetus"
- there is a review of Desert Peach
[Carla, the editor]:
You'll see some quite big changes to this issue of LfB which started out because I had received the beautiful artwork on the cover from ROO. I had asked about artwork way back when I first took over LfB as a way of filling in the back page around the address panel but when this arrived I felt it would be a shame to waste all those lovely couples on a back page and decided we could do with a real cover. Also I finally worked out how to use the merge program in WORD which saves me having to print the address panels via a database program and put the page through the photocopier twice to get the ads on it as well.
[Lindar]:
The first obvious slash pairing in Star Trek - Voyager is Paris and Kim, with all that emphasis on friendship and rescuing each other in the pilot episode. But it's been suggested to me that Paris/Chakotay would be an improvement, seeing that all the tension and hatred between them could easily turn to something else. And of course Paris now owns Chakotay's life for saving him from death. But Paris is obviously raring to go with anything that moves, so there could be a nice triangle while he keeps Harry hanging on one hand and tries to seduce Chakotay on the other. Personally I prefer the Vulcan, and one wonders what will happen when his seven years is up?
[Lindar]:
I'm sure everyone else is going to be saying this too - but Sean Connery was Harrison Ford's father in Indiana Jones & the Last Crusade, not in real life. They made a wonderful couple, and the fact that they shared the same woman in the film has made a lot of slash fans drool at the thought of an incestuous duo between Indiana and his Dad. Though that's generally the kind of thing that goes on in private thoughts and doesn't reach publication, as incest between the combination of aged fathers and sons is even more taboo than the usual Simon/Simon brotherly love.
[Lindar]:
It certainly looks as though US tv is going all out for lesbians (DS9, Babylon,) while leaving gay men still out in the cold. If only Next Generation had been able to get their gay plot right, which Roddenberry would never allow because all the plots submitted where about gay men - rather than stories which just happened to have a gay couple among their characters - then maybe we would have seen greater changes. At least on British tv we are getting more gays in drama, which has to be something. All we need now is a decent series with a gay lead couple. Well, one can dream.
[Lindar]:
I adore the quotes from Andrew Robinson about Garak's sexuality, and the image of him wandering around the con asking if they had any slash under the table. Let's hope he did read some - and it happened to be a decent enough story to make him see even more possibilities in the character. I particularly like the stories where Garak is moved to gentleness with Bashir, having previously known only loveless sex. I don't like the plots to be an excuse for brutal Cardassian S&M with Bashir liking it.
[O'Brien]:
I wholeheartedly agree about including angst and emotional pain in slash stories. I love slash stories that have lots of emotional tension, and yes, please, I want the sex scenes to be very explicit. Whether they're kinky or not depends on the tone of the story; sometimes gentle and/or traditional loving is necessary, and in other stories, S&M might be called for. Obviously I expect a lot from slash, because I also want there to be a good plot. In my younger days (many moons ago!), I used to read a lot of sexually explicit gay fiction and watch a lot of XXX male/male videos. But that kind of stuff gets very boring very quickly. In my mature years, I find that I want very explicit but ultimately loving and romantic stories about characters that I've fallen for on TV and admired and fantasized about. The slash stories carry the TV relationship to the next level, and it's a level I love.
[O'Brien]:
In January, we hope to have the first half of our massive VBS novel called The Lion and The Lamb ready for distribution. What started out as a 75-page short story last March has grown to at least 500 pages, and it still isn't finished. Since we've pushed our completion deadline back several times, and still kept missing them (as more and still more scenes demanded to be written), we finally decided to break the novel in half, since the first half has been edited and is virtually ready to publish. We think this solves several problems: first, it gives us a VBS slash zine to distribute to fans who've been patiently waiting; second, it gives us a breathing space to complete the second half; and, third, we think that psychologically if it will be easier for fans to afford two smaller zines rather than one. huge expensive one. W e hope the VBS fans out there will like it. I think my housemate has done one hell of a job writing it (or channeling it, as she likes to say). I've had a ball the past eight months - editing, arguing over scenes, encouraging, supporting, and occasionally laying on the floor with a fat cat for a partner to demonstrate that two men can't possibly achieve a described position.
[O'Brien]:
Re the topic of stories being distributed through the Internet. I'm horrified and disgusted that someone would actually scan in a story or zine and send it out over the 'Net when it doesn't belong to them, and without contacting the writer or publisher. It's not just the matter of depriving an editor or publisher of a zine sale, although that's annoying in itself. There have been some laws passed recently having to do with regulating pornography on the 'Net. I know several fans who are very concerned about slash stories being singled out as pornography, when the people who will enforce the anti-pom laws start getting tough.
I had a few qualms recently myself, when a well-meaning fan advertised my S/H zine on a slash chat line, giving my name and address and the price of the zine. If she had asked my permission first, I would have asked her not to do it. This is a group of people who have supposedly been screened and who have gone to some trouble and effort to be allowed into that chat line, but the bottom line is that we can't know everybody on the 'Net, or what their motives are. I've advertised my zine in various publications and Bill Hupe is agenting it for me at cons around the country, and all that's legal. I just don't want my zine, which is very loving and romantic and which means a great deal to me, to be singled out as pornography. Horrors. I personally think it's only a matter of time before one of the big studios gets mad about slash stories being written and distributed for shows currently on the air. I don't know what they could do to stop it, but I'm sure there could be a big stink. I hate that sort of thing. By the way, I got one order (so far) as a result of my zine being advertised on the 'Net, and since she didn't include an age statement, I wrote and asked her for one (I'm holding her check until I hear from her). I don't know her, and even though I know there are very stringent rules to get on that slash chat line, I'll feel that I've protected myself if I have a signed age statement in my file. It's the only protection I have against selling to minors.
[Lexin]:
Actors taking an 'unhealthy1 interest is slash. I think I feel this because I am uncomfortable with the idea of them taking an interest in it at all. Don't misunderstand me I really don't much care what they think, I'm not reading/writing about them after all, but I don't much relish the idea of explaining it to them, even if and when they don't mind.
[Judith]:
I'm going to cheerfully tackle you on your insistence that we can't produce zines to the same standard as the Americans. Take a look at Forbidden Star. I know it's my own zine, but I deliberately set out to produce something that was of a high enough standard to compete with the US stuff.... [MUCH about zine production snipped]... Slash? Well, I handed in this zine at the engineering firm, it had the front page clearly marked "this zine contains homosexual material and is not to be sold to under 18s," The only comment was "You've got a mark on that sheet, I'll tippex it out for you." Which she did. The young men copying the zine were charming, even helped me to carry the boxload out to the car. I don't know if they read it, I never dared to ask. I've had no- problems in getting screens done. This may be partly due to the fact that I have a policy of no explicit art, but I've gone as far as a picture of Avon's upper body with no clothes and a set of handcuffs and had no comment from the printer at all. It's worth noting that I queried a printer over the phone about this once and was told that pretty anything was legal artwork wise as long as it didn't show an erect penis, involve children or go really over the top. Look at what you can buy on the top shelf of a newsagents. There are publishers who specialise in gay fiction. Why should slash be so difficult?
From where I'm standing, I have a damn good looking zine, with some very good stories in it, and I'm going to promote it in the US and the UK by every means at my disposal. Sorry if I sounded like I was delivering a lecture, but I feel very strongly that we CAN produce zines that are just as good as American ones.
[Judith]:
Quite likely many people say that they don't like explicit material in order to avoid being labelled as perverts, but there is also the possibility that they mean what they say. If I say I enjoy kinky stuff and someone else says they don't, then I'll take them at their word. But then I do agree there is a great reluctance for anyone to be the first to admit to it.
[Judith]:
Speaking of open slash lists, the Space City list is totally open and is great fun. There were around half a dozen men the last time anyone counted. They're not all slash fans either, they just enjoy having a totally free environment where anything can be discussed. I'd say the list is all the better off for their presence - they certainly haven't inhibited me from posting anything, and judging from some of the recent discussions, they haven't inhibited anyone else either! Space City is for discussions of anything to do with Blake's 7 and was specifically set up to be an area where slash and het could be discussed without anyone complaining. The list is run by Susan Schnitiger.
[Judith]:
FELICITY & RAFFERTY: Looking through LfB, I notice that one or two people are worried about the degree to which slash fandom is visible on the Internet. It's swings and roundabouts really. I think anyone looking to write a shock expose is far more likely to head for one of the alternative sex newsgroups. They're easier to find for one thing, and sound far more exotic for another.
There's a fine line between being visible enough for people who want to find us, and shouting so loud that the world descends on us like a ton of bricks. However, I think we hide a little too much.
Some things, like sending slash zines to an actor, or outing people is probably something that we'd all agree is wrong, but I believe that publishing slash on the Internet is within reason. Anyone joining Space City has to state that they are of legal age and understand that explicit homosexuality may be discussed. If anyone is offended by anything they read after signing that, then they quite simply have no right to complain.
I'm fed up of meeting people in the UK who don't know what slash is. The usual reaction when they find out is either neutrality, or "where can I get some!"If we don't poke our noses up a little higher, that state of ignorance will remain. I realise that this is more the case in some fandoms than in others, but I keep on thinking of all those would-be slash fans out there. I think we need to wave the flag gently. Let people know that slash exists. Never force them to read it Never leave it lying around where it isn't wanted. Always avoid irritating those who genuinely dislike it (I really do get irritated by slash fans who assume that anyone who doesn't like slash is anti-gay and out to ban all slash zines - this simply isn't the case). But let people know ifs there.
I know some people do run into problems of prejudice. I find it hard to see the problems because I have almost never run into them. Do I have more understanding friends? (Seems mildly improbable.) Am I thicker skinned? (I don't think so) Or am I just more tactful? (But you all seem pretty nice people.) Maybe I have the knack of not seeing every negative comment as out and out hatred. Like Simon, the 'short greasy spot' on the Internet list. What he actually said was a fairly mild statement that he personally found slash off-putting and that he felt it extremely unlikely that the characters were gay. He also tried to phrase his message in a humorous manner. This resulted in him being jumped on by all and sundry who promptly assumed that he hated gays - which was something that he had never said and not something that I believe he intended. Almost no one took any notice of the follow up note he posted later trying to explain where he actually stood. One thing however is probably certain. If he didn't hate slash before, you can bet that he certainly does now after all the abusive mail he got Sometimes slash fans are their own worst enemies. If you want to change someone's mind, you don't hit them over the head with a four by two.
We treat our hobby as though we should be ashamed of it. People seem to hide totally, or to lash out violently at any minor slight Why? Are we still suffering from the social perception that ifs okay for a man to buy a soft pom mag at the newsagents, but a woman is supposed to be vaginally pure and not to consider such ideas?...
I'm terribly nice really - I take down my favourite Suzan Lovett portrait during the day - a lovely nude study of Blake and Avon.
Maybe that is why I find it easy to relate to other people who don't like slash. I've had practice in learning the difference between a strong dislike of slash, and a strong dislike of the slash fan herself. I've several good friends in fandom who dislike slash strongly. They know I write it I know they hate it. It doesn't in the least stop us being friends any more than voting for opposite political parties would.
[Judith]:
Regarding the comment that slash would make an interesting article for some journalist to tackle. Some slash fans will recoil in horror at the ideas, and others would say "spread the faith". I've no idea what the split between the two would be. I suspect many people would be afraid of being ridiculed rather than treated seriously - that's how fandom usually gets reported. But, I wonder if some of the women's magazines would treat the subject in a straightforward manner?
[Judith]:
I enjoy a good straight relationship just as much as slash. It's the character as opposed to the gender that makes it for me. If the strong characters are both men, then I'll write slash, if you get a good strong woman, then I'll be interested in her. I've yet to read a really good f/f story, but I suspect that with the right characters, I could enjoy it. Servalan/Kasabi? Servalan/Soolin? <Evil grin> - the real one to write would be Servalan/Anna. That could be quite something if they were both aware of the other's involvement with Avon. Anyone who says you can't be a slash fan if you also like het is talking through their hat. Anyone who tries to fit other people into fixed categories is fighting a losing battle. We're all unique.
[Judith]:
I must admit that I wouldn't tell my mother that I wrote slash, but I'll cheerfully tell anyone in fandom, be they a slash fan or not. Basically, I had to make that decision before I started editing slash. You can't sell slash zines and remain invisible.
[Judith]:
What makes a character stand out? Ifs an interesting question. Often, it isn't the character that the producers intended to be the cheesecake who ends up attracting the women. Spock is sexier than Kirk, Picard is sexier than Riker, Avon is sexier than Blake. I think a lot of it is down to personality in the end. The ability to suffer well is certainly an important factor, but there is more to it than that A reasonably complex character with more emotional depth than is instantly visible on the surface is what is needed. I think a certain degree of reservation is important, because half our fantasy is being able to get past that reservation. A man who falls for every single woman has less attraction - we want the man who falls for one woman and falls hard.
[Ayden]:
Northern Exposure: Now I know no-one else would like the idea but what about Maurice and Ed getting together. It seems so far that Joel and Maggie are getting close so that leaves Ed at a loose end. Maurice is very uptight and despises the gay lifestyle of others but in the Dream episode we see he has his own little quirks. Maurice sees himself as a NASA hero and being gay didn't fit into his self-image. He's lonely. Ed works for him - why - I mean does he really need the money that bad? Ed could do Maurice a world of good - the worldly egotist with the movie buff Shamen - makes sense to me!
[Ayden]:
Speaking of cans of worms, I hope I'm not opening up a new one here, but... it seems to me we need a word to describe slashy works of fiction that use original characters. The Japanese have a term for it (trust the Japanese to have the vocabulary of slash sewn up but not to have a word for sinus or leisure or privacy, they call it 'original June' after the magazine that pioneered this type of story. The point came up in your comment about 'mainstream gay fiction not focusing on emotional commitment'. A lot of the mainstream gay fiction I've read does, if not to the same extent as slash; ifs the pornography that doesn't The problem for me is what qualifies as mainstream gay fiction. Is it gay fiction if it's written by a straight woman? Is it gay fiction if ifs written about two gay men but has a (generalisation alert) female' emphasis on emotions and relationships rather than sex? Is The Front Runner gay fiction? Is Teot's War slash? To me, they're Junes, like Mary Renault and Harriet and Peter and MZB: gay male sex for female-sensibility readers, as a correspondent so succinctly put it.
[Ayden]:
As for Paris/Chakotay, psychologically it works, but physically... Paris is so white bread, and Chakotay needs some hair. More hair. Lots and lots of hair. As long as Kim's for choice. On the simple physical level, Kim and Tuvok would be just fine, but psychologically? Not unless Tuvok was in pon farr.
[Ayden]:
Now, about women together stories. The ones I've read (mostly ST:TNG) haven't worked for me because I couldn't care less about the women involved, but stories about men I don't care about leave me cold as well. What I like about slash is when the characters walk that fine edge between individual and universal: when they can be seen as embodying an archetype as well as being just themselves. I'll admit half my problems with Sheridan are that he's only human, while Sinclair is the Leader/the Warrior as well as being Sinclair. Now, the female archetypes aren't a real turn on for me - the Mother, the Ice Maiden, the Temptress, the Destroyer r no, sorry, boring boring boring. But put a woman into a male archetype, like the Warrior - and do it straight: Red Sonyas are cheating - and you have: Delta Squadron Leader Ivanova. Oh my yes. Take another archetypal configuration, Father/Son. Take it in Alienated but Attached mode (eg Spock/Sarek). Change nothing else but make the Son a Daughter, and yes you have: Ivanova sitting shiva for her father. Yes yes yes. Okay, see: ifs easy. So I'd love to read a slash story that had a few of these female men in it; I'm sure it would have exactly the same schwing as m/m slash. But are there any other female men around? Nope. Just that classic female archetype the Ice. Maiden Talia. Boring boring boring.
[Ayden]:
Re Due South, I've only watched a couple of episodes including the one where they both get shot. I can see a slash potential with Ray but not really with Fraser. I know he showed concern for Ray when he lost the girl and planted evidence in his house, but all the real caring came from Ray, who risked his career for him, said he'd never make a deal just to save himself and Benny, and even said "I was afraid she was going to come between us." Benton, for someone so upstandingly moral and dutybound, was ready to run with the girl all too easily. He didn't seem bothered either by the fact that Ray had shot him. In fact, I felt this point was glossed over, with just a scene of Ray with an unseen psychiatrist/psychologist Surely even in a straight relationship there'd have been more angst/mental trauma in shooting or being shot by your partner.
[Ayden]:
You raised a very valid point, that in gay fiction sex comes first, and in slash angst is very important. I'd never really considered this before, but I think ifs very true. Very often a slash fandom novel has 90 per cent of it full of angst and the characters only get together in the last six or so pages. In gay novels the relationship is already there or quickly established. I don't enjoy gay novels because the caring is usually missing but neither do I like 190 pages of angst and 10 of sex, no matter how hot.
[Ayden]:
Reading two women isn't my scene either. I always avoided Uhura/Christine [1] and such like stories in whatever fandom. I suppose this is the counterpoint of those men who like reading about two women together sexually but wouldn't touch gay fiction. I know I was never fond of any of the women in the various series', so perhaps part of my disinterest in female/ female fiction is because of disinterest in those characters. But since I can read and enjoy slash stories about series' and characters I have never watched, there must be another element involved. And I think ifs the simple fact of what is personally a turn-on. I think we all go through stages of curiosity about other lifestyles and I would read a story just to see what ifs like, but the idea of two women writhing on a bed just does nothing for me, whereas the thought of two men doing so sends a little frisson of anticipation through me. Like CUSHY I read slash to be turned on, which.is why the sex in stories is so important to me. The old hurt/comfort stories with all their emotional content were very nice, giving warm cosy feeling to you after reading them, but they ultimately didn't satisfy or fulfill me enough, so I turned to slash. If you get a story with lovely emotions and sex, that's good, a bonus even. But a one-page vignette of a solely sex scene can be more satisfying-to me than a 200 page novella.
[Ayden]:
Again - I think the stars' interest in slash as unhealthy because most slashers don't want the fact of its existence to be widely known and brought to public attention by the media etc. There could be twofold reaction to any expose - on a general level, series creators etc might try to close down on slash, and on a more personal level it could mean awkward questions from family or friends who know of your interest in the various series'.... I was quite taken aback that you would suggest that slash would be a good subject for a journalist. Perhaps you meant it as a joke, but my reaction was NO WAY! I am very against slash being outed, for the reasons stated before tho* I'm surprised that with the number of leaks there have been here or in the States there haven't been an expose yet. Long may it stay that way.
[Jem]:
I developed my persisting, major obsession with Star Wars. With a delay of ten years, I went into a sudden and passionate fling with Han and Luke over two years ago, and started writing about them immediately. It just poured from me, and I couldn't stop it (still can't..). With the possible exception of Xmas Eve, there hasn't been a day or night since that didn't see me hacking away at the keyboard. (For all of you ready to file me away as an obsessive personality: you're absolutely right..). I still read a lot; from KS I've moved on to Quantum Leap, Houston Knights, MUNCLE, the Professionals (and I read about all the Robin of Sherwood slash available), but nothing quite compares to Han/Luke for inspiration and rapture. Well, after happily scribbling away for the better part of a year, the fact that all my research and pestering people about it had turned up next to no Han/Luke material started to bug me seriously. Ifs not so much the stories that I miss (though I certainly wouldn't mind both a rise in quantity and quality), ifs the. communication and sharing my fantasies with like minds. Over the years, I've made a few good friends in the slash community, but it gets awkward to always introduce yourself saying 'you may find this a bit weird, but for me, it's Han/Luke really...' (and then hope for a generous 'well, why not' sort of reaction). So if anyone participating in LfB knows of Han/Luke material, or even people indulging the same passion, you could make me a very happy girl by letting me know.
[Jem]:
Something else I'd like to talk about is the big difference writing slash made in my life. I can't begin to exhaust that subject here, so I'll just mention one thing (for a start): Writing always meant a lot to me - my flat's full of epic novels, poetry, diaries, the whole range of crazed fantasising - but it feels absolutely different to know I'm writing for women, and within a genre created by women (even if there are some male slash readers). I guess this ties in with the current discussion among some of you: about deliberately preferring fan writing over more 'acceptable' literary activities. The reason why right now I'm perfectly happy to write for a small, possibly tiny circle of fans is simply that I've never felt so much at home in any type of writing before. I'm really a very textural person and live in what I write, and there's definitely more of me in my tons of Han/Luke material that in anything I've ever done before. Probably sounds strange but writing slash for the first time ever allowed me to identify myself as female without feeling awkward (I have this history of wanting to be a boy etc). Feels good.
[Jem]:
...maybe you've got a first idea why [Star Wars slash] such a rare bird? (Suggestions/speculations from every body else will be welcome, of course). Is it just Lucasfilm's prohibitive policies? Did Star Wars simply happen too long ago? Do people really believe Han and Leia could make it last, get married and raise a family Does the predominant version of Luke as sweetly innocent kid put them off - what? I don't mean to go ranting about this, but I'm still puzzled by the fact that about every other fandom seems to have a reasonable amount of slash, only Star Wars doesn't.
[Jem]:
I find myself in perfect agreement with your view that sex between (heterosexually identified) men is the whole point in slash writing. Thinking about it now, I guess it's the element of transgression that defines the genre. All the shows we're discussing here are telling us in so many words that men can be absolutely everything for each other best friends, life- mates, brothers, the one you'd trust your life with blindly - you name it. The one thing they're not supposed to be is lovers (seems to be the price they're made to pay for being emotionally self-reliant in a way women are really envisioned). For me, slash is about stepping across that border (and you actually end up sensitised to the countless interdicts that define it).
[Willow]:
I'm still in love with lots and lots of slash pairs. As the terminology goes, I'm a slash slut and proud of it I have added two fandoms recently. Babylon 5 which is an intellectual love. I really enjoy the series and the speculation that goes along it. The themes and ideas being explored through the series appeal to me on just about every level.
The second fandom is Due South and it has hit me on an amazing level. It is the first time I have seen a slash relationship in a programme that is still being made. It has hit me like the traditional image of first love. Personally, while I might lust after the Mountie, I love the Ray Vecchio character, I could be friends with him for life. One of the things I really like is that there is no. bimbo/love interests of the week stuff, none of the traditional love interests that cop shows are usually so fond of. The drama and comedy is very well done, and there are more than enough overtones to keep a slash fan happy for a very long time. The whole series has just forced its way into my soul.- It has also forced me to become an author. I still cannot believe that I am writing slash. That was what everyone else did. I just read it, but now I'm writing it too.
[Rafferty]:
I need to start this letter with a warning about the InterNet. Please, if you are involved with this area of computing, be very careful. Practice safe computing. Check all incoming messages, files, floppies for viruses. I think the floppy I'm sending you is clean, but don't trust it, test it. In our local group of slash fans, we share computers. The one I was going to use to do the desk top publishing of Lion and the Lamb became infected with a stealth virus, B-1, which attacks the CMOS and damages hardware. As of 18/12/95 this virus passes undetected through the Microsoft virus check. We have no way to know where this virus came from, or even why it was written. I don't know why people want to destroy other people's computer data or plant bombs in a truck and kill people, including children, in the Federal building in Oklahoma City. I just know it happens and we have to try and protect ourselves.
In my paranoia I see do-gooders trying to stop the spread of the dreaded slash ideas on the InterNet by slipping a virus into the slash lines to destroy the sources of the fiction.
In the US there are now laws in effect regarding the use of certain words on the InterNet I think that includes most of the topics we discuss in these pages and I don't want the thought police limiting my right to free speech. I would like to see those of us who share ideas in Late for Breakfast be on the look out for slash on the InterNet I'm particularly interested in my stories, under Alexis Rogers. I have given no one permission to put my stories out in cyberspace and do not want my stories floating around outside of my control. [2] I write explicit same gender sexual material and do not believe that it should be available to anyone not old enough or mature enough to handle it.
[Rafferty]:
There is always someone who feels it is his or her duty to expose those of us who write slash. In the early 80's, after Starsky & Hutch was off the air in prime time, but was in re-runs, the fandom was active and producing a great deal of fanfiction, most of which was slash. A woman who wanted to advance her own importance took an arm load of K/S zines to David Soul's office. It was the purpose of the woman to establish, run, and control a fan club for David Soul. She told Mr. Soul's secretary that the same type of stories as represented in the printed matter in hand were being written by the Starsky and Hutch fans and if this woman were to have charge of his fan club, she would stop this activity. Mr. Soul, who was not present at this meeting, telephoned the woman, telling her thanks but no thanks, he could handle the problem himself. I've never heard David Soul mention slash fanfiction. The S/H slash fans, however, respected his right to privacy, and took most of the material underground, even eliminating authors' names from some zines in an effort to protect everyone.
[Rafferty]:
If I took a more realistic viewpoint, and concentrated on the commercial value, I'd probably have more money in the bank. That's not a wrong attitude; we all have to pay rent and buy groceries. The ideal condition is to write a powerful piece of fiction that satisfies both the commercial value and the dramatic intent I know it can be done because we have libraries full of literary masterpieces that have survived the ages. While I don't expect to make money from my amateur endeavors in fandom, I do expect to sharpen my writing skills and work to entertain my audience. Who knows, in a thousand years, it might be fanfiction literature classes will be studying. I know the power of some of the slash stories I have read rival Romeo and Juliet.
[Rafferty]:
I would very much like to see fan activities from the UK recognized by awards in the US. I have a Huggy and a FanQ and it feels really good to be recognized by my peers. I would like to see other writers that I admire recognized for their work. I appreciate the ballot included with LfB because these days I don't get out much and I am not attending many cons at the present It's important for publications like LfB to help keep the information flowing freely. That's a challenge because there are people in the world, including some governments or parts of governments, that do not want the people of the world talking to each other. There are many places in the world where personal freedom is not allowed and we must fight to keep this freedom alive. While I write slash fiction because I enjoy it, I also write because I believe two men, or two women, should have the right and the freedom to love each other and to live in peace.
[Franny]:
Now, I own an antique PC which I can't afford to upgrade right now, nor can I afford a modem, subscription to the Internet etc. And it would now appear that fandom solely exists on the Internet. Or at least that is how some people would have you see it You see, I have found that my fan friends on the Internet have not been able to plug into all these wonderful fan fiction areas for Due South Or X-Files Or Blake's Seven. I'm not surprised, because there are some people in fandom who like to 'control' others. The adage about 'it's not what you know, but who you know' holds true here. The notion that the Internet makes 'everything' FREELY available is twaddle.
Several zine editors that I know have expressed concern that fiction downloaded from the Internet will mean that ultimately people will stop buying zines. For starters, people have to find the fiction (which can be bloody difficult, as I highlighted earlier), and then download it. I've seen downloaded fiction, it's an aggravating mess - you print it out and it looks as if the writer has been hitting the carnage return key in all sorts of strange places, which makes it very hard to read (this from the woman who spent 4 hours trying to make sense of a downloaded file on Due South facts etc.). Also, the ratio of dross fiction as opposed to good fiction is VERY high as ANY writer can 'post' a story on the Internet From the fan point of view, the Internet is useful for gaining access to cast listings and story breakdowns etc. etc., and for a fast exchange of mail (since when yes' or 'no' or a terse 3 lines count as mail I don't know, but my Internet friends don't appear to be writing 'letters' in the sense than this LfB contribution is a letter), but as far as fan culture is concerned it offers nothing. I'll be glad when all the fuss is over - remember
when you videoed EVERYTHING for months after you bought your first video recorder? You see, whilst fandom and fan culture has changed drastically in the last 5 to 10 years I don't think that technology will replace propping up a bar (either at a convention, in a local pub, or even at home!) and having a good old fashioned chin wag. Essentially fandom is about fans and people, it's just that some people have lost sight of that, and I'm not mourning their loss.
[Franny]:
Okay, so fans don't feel they need to go to conventions any more to see their favourite show(s) because they've all got the videos (when I started out in fandom few people had a phone let alone a video recorder), and they don't buy fanzines because they can buy a glossy professionally produced book or magazines (or think they can get fan fiction for free' off the Internet) instead - and that's fine, in a very limited sort of way, bit like buying a cheap white wine and saying it's as good as an expensive one. Hah, what do they know about quality? How can they appreciate the effort and art involved, and how can they go on to grow and appreciate the real fine vintages? Believe me, there are a couple of K/S zines I'd spend a fortune on to own, because a tatty photocopy ISN'T the same as owning an original.
[Tarlan]:
Have to admit that I thought it very worrying that anyone would be so stupid as to post slash anywhere it could be found by the 'wrong' people - whether on the Internet or advertised in general magazines. However, it is certainly not the first time nor will it be the last time that I hear of such horror stories. Also, I am a strong believer in allowing people to live their own lives in privacy. I do not believe in outing and I certainly think it in terribly bad taste to dump a pile of slash stories on the actor who portrays a particular character. Not just because of their reaction but for the betrayal of the author and publisher of that work. As I have said before, the actor and the character are two separate entities and should be afforded the luxury of remaining distinct from each other in the real world unless they choose otherwise.
[Tarlan]:
Reluctantly, I must also agree that British zines do suffer to some extent because of shabbier look compared to the States. Glossy covers, spiral or book-style binding come at a high price over here but the worst hurdle is that the average reader is used to paying pennies for British zines whereas they would not think twice about paying $20-25 for an American zine. You may argue that part of this is postage but, even taking that into account, the Americans charge around £10 per zine compared to £5 for British. I'm sure most British publishers could produce a much more polished zine if they could afford to take the gamble of raising the price to the same level as their American counterparts.
[Tarlan]:
Talking of Avon/Servalan, have you noticed that there is very little hetero adult fiction around? I like reading both slash and straight and wish I had the courage to write some straight stuff myself. I feel nervous every time a slash story of mine goes into print but the thought of writing straight adult seems incredibly personal. Perhaps it is the fact that I am not a man that makes it easier to write slash as I can take a mental/emotional step back from the words that appear on the page in front of me. How do other slash writers feel about this?
[Tarlan]:
The biggest dilemma is whether posting slash on the Internet could be construed as reasonable. Most writers and publishers depend on the clandestine attitude surrounding slash and may be quite fearful of being discovered by the wrong people.
[Tarlan]:
I had the misfortune to go to a major Trek con a year or so back. Never again. Even the smaller cons have forced out the fan dealers. At CULT TV the organisers placed most of the professional dealers in the main complex and left most of the fan dealers at the far end of the camp. The excuse was that the fan tables were free. However, it is more than just lack of consideration. Most fans these days do not seem interested in buying zines or fan-made items as they have such a wide selection of professional merchandise, photos and books to choose from. A friend of mine is a zine publisher and barely made enough to coyer the cost of the table at the convention. It makes me feel old to say it but I remember the days when the dealers room was filled with fan fiction and the odd professional dealer had just a few items of interest. I expect that part of the problem is that there, is a higher number of males interested in Trek since ST:TNG and they tend to go for models and toys.
[Ferret]:
Please do not encourage spamming (a barrage of emails etc) of the lady who runs the Professionals Circuit Library on line. She does a lot of hard work, and none of the stories are reproduced without permission. They are all circuit stories, already circulating freely. Spamming causes a lot of expensive and time wasting and upset for people, and she does not deserve this. I think you have misunderstood her intentions/operations.... also, you have to be a member of the slash net in order to get these stories, so they are not easily available to everybody. The list owner does a lot.(and I mean a *lot*) of vetting of prospective members before they are able to access the Professionals Electronic Circuit library. Unfortunately, most of the stories now available are only the old ones that have been going around in paper form for many years. In some ways, ifs safer than paper, as long as the receivers show some discretion as to who they pass it on to.
[Ferret]:
[E D's] Due South information would have been better not reproduced verbatim here. Especially not with her Internet and home addresses. She is very anti slash, for religious and upbringing reasons, and would be angry and upset by having her work appear in this forum. She refused to list slash zines in her information as she did not want to propagate interest. Since it is marked that she doesn't mind it being copied, she can't complain, but I'm a bit worried about it nevertheless.
[Ferret]:
You have to be a member of the slash net in order to get these stories, so they are not easily available to everybody. The list owner does a lot.(and I mean a *lot*) of vetting of prospective members before they are able to access the Professionals Electronic Circuit library. Unfortunately, most of the stories now available are only the old ones that have been going around in paper form for many years. In some ways, ifs safer than paper, as long as the receivers show some discretion as to who they pass it on to.
[Ferret]:
Not bitching this time, but agreeing with your comments on plagiarism on the net. The circuit library is not plagiarising, but I myself have been electronically plagiarised. In fact, this has caused a huge upset. My Due South zine, Perverse Pleasure was almost complete, when someone emailed me a story. Yes, it was my story, or part three of the trilogy anyway, in ifs complete form, with only the author's name changed. One of my so called friends had scanned one of my drafts into her web page, along with part three of Due North, another novella I've written, and claimed them for her own work. So to say that I was furious is somewhat of an understatement, and the friend' when I confronted her about this, had no idea she had done anything wrong. All of us Australian writers who have been stung by her (I found others) have now refused to share our work with this person. Grrr. Boy, I'm still on a downer here aren't I? My thighs hurt too much for me to be cheerful I guess. I'm still sulking with this friend, but I have gone away and written my Hard Way novella instead, no one wants to pinch those ideas! Sometimes, having my own private fandom makes a good place to hide.
[Ferret]:
Had a laugh at your Birds of a Feather comments. Yes, ifs rather like that on the Due South list as well. We carefully monitor every new person's posts, trying to sus out whether they are a closet slash fan or not. Sometimes you can make a mistake, someone is not aware of slash. You either get a polite 'no thanks' or a very interested, 'so, tell me more' response. I've introduced about five people to Due South slash fiction over the past three months, corrupting them quietly off list. What an achievement! Now, there's something to be proud of, leading innocents into the path of unrighteousness.
[Dragon]:
I think the problem with a lot of British slash zines and British zines in general is that many times they aren't well advertised in the US and that the readership there don't always hear about them. I have bought British zines that I've never seen advertised in any of the US info zines. Perhaps there should be somewhere that publishers can send info to so that it can be forwarded: to the US for advertising in the relevant publications. I know that some charge to advertise, but most don't. As far as I can see they should be free anyway as the zine listings are reason that people fork out for info zines. I know that the US zines do look a lot prettier on the whole and I have to say that I do like a nice looking zine, but at the end of the day ifs the contents that will keep my interest. The only gripe I have had with some British zines, and ifs something that I haven't come across for a while now, is where the print has been so bad that you can barely read the text. That does annoy me. I'd rather pay more and have a zine I can read without squinting.
[Dragon]:
Lesbian stories don't particularly do anything for me simply because I fancy men and that's what I want to read about. In fandom there are many areas of interest under the slash umbrella and something for most people to enjoy.
Issue 29
Late for Breakfast 29 was edited by Carla S. It is undated (but published sometime before October 1996), and contains 48 pages.
- includes a list of the British nominations for the Stiffie Award
- many fans take "Rafferty" to task for her/his statement that British writers were less-educated and created inferior fiction than American writers
- there is MUCH about the Internet, fear of viruses, fears of privacy invasion, fears of the government, fears of other fans, fears of being left behind
- the editor explained drabbles: "A drabble is a short story comprising exactly 100 words, (excluding the title) and several mainstream books of them have been published." "Late for Breakfast" #29 included several examples: a Lone Ranger/Tonto one, a Sherlock/Watson one, and a Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea one, all written by Lindar.
- a review of the pro book "Gay Tales of the Samurai"
- a review of the zine Companions in Chaos, see that page
- the editor includes, for the first time in this letterzine, some fannish internet addresses:
- Official Highlander Home page: http://www.itribe.net/highlander/
- Due South - some adult and slash stories: http://www.glue.umd.edu/~sdragon/DSA.html
- Forever Knight - Adult heading has slash: http://www.evil.org.fkfic
- X-Files - lots of fiction, only a few slash: http://gossamer .eng.ohio-state.edu/x-files/
- Deep Space 9 - some slash: flp://ttp.cis.ksu.edu/pub/alt/startrek.creative/story/ds9/ "And to look at newsgroups which can be very helpful try alt.tv. followed by the name of the show. There are hundreds available eg alt tv.due-south or alt.tv.er"
[Carla, the editor]:
The bigger problem [for the lateness of this issue besides being too busy and stressed] however is the time it is taking to get them typed and I would plead with people to please use email and send disks where you can. I don't need a paper copy as well, unless you want to send one. If we have real problems reading a disk we can get in touch with you. Any IBM compatible software should be able to be read by us and I'll even take a stab at MAC software to save us having to re-type. I'm not saying you have to use a computer, but if you do please save us the effort of re-typing.
[Carla, the editor]:
If you look at the Review section you will find a new kind of mini story called a Drabble and I'm looking for more of these to be included. Also to help new people joining the Internet find things, I'm looking for Net addresses which you think are of interest. I would like to include a supplement of those eventually, so the more the merrier.
[Carla, the editor]:
My latest craze at the moment is Kung Fu: The Legend Continues. This stems from spending Xmas day by myself with no new zines or videos and begging friends for something to watch. One had KFTLC which I had seen occasionally and which I had my ear bent about, last year at Mediawest by some fans and so I spent 12 hours solid watching it and by the end was in lust with Chris Potter. That's not to say that I have lost my interest in the other actors/fandoms I like but when the zines are few and far between and they are not on tv in anything one tends to start looking around. That's why, the number of fandoms I collect in has mushroomed in the last 5 years I suppose - as Pros fandom diminished, my interest in other fandoms grew.
[Tom]:
I find slash is usually well enough written to be immensely enjoyable. My only personal criticism would be that some styles can be very flat and lacking in emotional description. One reads it, after all, to enjoy the thoughts and feelings of the characters - as opposed to the less emotional style of most gay fiction. When I'm reading a story told in the third person, about the developing relationship between two (or more) men, I tend to feel cheated unless the emotions of both/all characters have been fully explored.
[Bagheera]:
I can't agree that Spock is sexier than Kirk, and Picard more so than Riker - not that I've watched more than a couple of TNG episodes and wasn't moved by either man. Still, each to their own, and I do agree that Avon was sexier than Blake. I also agree with your comments on personality of the character being very important. It was a perfect summation that "a reasonably complex character with more emotional depth than is instantly visible on the surface is what is needed." The seemingly unattainable has always been a challenge to men and women in whatever form it appears. And when it comes to sexual/emotional matters, a relationship that has to be worked for is usually more satisfying (for fandom anyway) than one that falls into your lap. I always felt Avon would be a one-woman man if he let himself feel at all - look at how Anna haunted him. Bodie, despite his outward love 'em and leave 'em attitude, I also felt would be a loyal and loving partner if he ever fell deeply in love. And the dropped hints about his past were also intriguing and attractive. I like a man with a dark edge to him too - well, maybe I wouldn't in real life, but in characters it can add a little extra fillip. That's probably one of the reasons I never took to Blake, though he certainly would pass the hard-to-get test, as his obsession with the rebellion excluded any personal intimate relationships with women. Another reason was that he never seemed as vulnerable as Avon or Bodie can be despite their hard image. And basically I just didn't find him physically attractive.
[Bagheera]:
While I was watching the series in its original days I hardly noticed Spock - he was just part of the furniture so to speak. I never saw him as really alien, probably because he was so humanoid, and most aliens seen in other programmes were of the Gom, Cybermen, Dalek type, and his greenness wasn't really apparent on screen. To me he was just another character, Kirk's friend, and Kirk was IT I'm not going to get into Kirk's womanising ways and all the other faults' of his that are raised by detractors. Though who wants a man that no other woman is interested in? But physically Kirk to me was far more sexy than the long drink of water called Spock. Thin types don't turn me on at all. About 15 years after the series I started meeting with other fans, and it was only through their liking for Spock that I began to notice him, and of course as I got into K/S I had to take him on board, appreciating he could be attractive through the authors' and Kirk's eyes. But I am presumably still not attracted to him, nor indeed to the older Nimoy as he is today.
[Bagheera]:
I agree that there aren't as many potential slash fans out there as some including JUDITH would like to think. Certainly all my female workmates would regard an interest in slash as perverted and something to gossip over and express shock at, not to mention the males, all overprotective of their macho image. I know friends in fandom who are not into slash at all, and of my friends outside fandom, they wouldn't be interested in discussing male/male sex, and would probably be of the 'how can they do that stuff?' variety. Both workmates and friends would be only marginally better at talking about any type of sex though in work the double entendre occurs quite often.
[Bagheera]:
[Bagheera]:
I can re-read straight stories with emotional content but I still feel cheated or not fully satisfied. Star Trek's Processional zine is really lovely, but oh for a further 10 pages or so where they become lovers and bondmates; it's inevitable that they will, but oh to see it in print - the author was such a good writer I'm sure she'd have handled it beautifully, but perhaps she wasn't quite into slash. I don't re-read slash stories that don't appeal to me. My story collection is a 3 drawer filing cabinet full of K/S and another 4 drawer of B/D and 13 other fandoms, but contains very few complete zines. When I buy a zine I find only 1 or 2 stories usually that I really like, so I copy those and re sell the zine. So my collection is very selective. It's just a pity that I haven't added to it lately. I seem to re-sell my zines without copying stories now.
[Harlem]:
The question of which is easier, original writing or fanfic, is a fun one. While I agree it's a relief to have the characters and the background provided for you, there's still the little wrinkle you mention of getting the character tight. Original fiction looks to me like the ultimate amnesty situation from the writer's viewpoint: you have absolute control (well, we all know that's not so: characters always have minds of their own - but that's the theory at any rate) and there's no carping about 'A wouldn't do this' or B wouldn't do that1or worse 'HOW DARE YOU make C do the other - you horrible vermin!!!' and so on. When you're dealing with characters that people care deeply about, you're also dealing with a lot of projected psychological needs. You interfere in the affair of any one fan and any one character at your own risk: and all fanfic is an interference of that sort. If original fiction is sex with one partner, then fanfic is sex on the Net with everyone watching, and very likely commenting as well. I know some writers are oblivious to possible response when they write, and I admire them immensely for it; but I'm always conscious of that ghostly audience. Sometimes it's exhilarating and sometimes it's a pain, but it's always a toughie.
[Harlem]:
While we're on the subject of what turns you on: yes, it's person specific, but I think it's worth analysing what exactly it is about two men writhing on the bed that turns us on. Is it visualising the scene: if one imagined male body is good, two are better? Is it connected to fandom: not just two men, but two men I know and like? (And if there were two women you liked, would it work then?) Is it, as JEM suggests, the violation of a taboo: two men doing what straight men aren't supposed to do? Is it - one of my kinks - the fact that power levels have to be negotiated when two men get together instead of being dictated by sex? There's no question about who's the receptive partner with heterosexuals, but with two men - well, as a bi friend complained, "You always have to decide which of you is going to get fucked," (Mind you that was in happier days when fucking wasn't yet classified as a life-threatening activity. I don't suppose the same negotiation is necessary for hand jobs and other forms of safe sex). I'm gay myself, and I like to writhe with another woman on the bed when I have a chance, which isn't often; but like you I don't find reading about it much of a turn-on. For me it's the absence of any presumed personal power in the female characters that accounts for the lack of erotic charge. If there's nothing to give up, no resigning of control, there's no energy. Which is why Servalan/Avon ought to work, in the absence of another woman to slash her with. (Only Servalan wouldn't concede power to Avon, would she? Would she?)
[Harlem]:
Again, in a lot of sexual fiction and for sure in most porn, either gay or straight, I often find an underlying hostility expressed towards the hero's (usually female) sex partners. It may be no more than a western literary torpor, but male characters never seem to like the people they sleep with very much. (Or they wouldn't call them 'bitches' as much as they do.) Anyone who has doubts about this point should perhaps do a fast reread of, say, Norman Mailer, or Kingsley Amis or Ernest Hemingway or Anthony Burgess or Saul Bellow or... That's why it's such a high to read slash and see the emotional attachment and the tenderness between two men: or just see two guys having friendly sex. But when two women show attachment and tenderness it's ho-hum business as usual. There's no violation of the norm, no reversal of expectation, in a couple of women having friendly sex. That's just the way it's 'sposed to be. (Not the way it is, I hasten to add; but real life is another problem. And generally, if two women don't like each other, they don't sleep together. It's called common sense.) I'm not sure what the formula is that would provide sexual energy in a f/f story, but I intend to keep looking for it.
[Harlem]:
Hi there, JEM. Interesting point, that writing slash let you identify as a woman without feeling awkward. Could you expand? I think I almost know what you mean, but... Is it just because your audience can safely be assumed to be 98% female? Or is it something to do with writing male slash characters who are allowed access to all kinds of neat female stuff (see above: attachment, tenderness, etc) that would be criticised as unrealistic if it appeared in mainstream fiction? A lot of me goes into my characters too, so that sometimes I look at them and wonder if they're men in anything but physiology; only they aren't women either, so --
[Harlem]:
I'm an internet virgin and close to a technological illiterate the rest of the time. How can an incoming message carry a virus? Can something that just appears on your screen affect the programming? And how does it destroy hardware? Gak. Scary stuff, boys and girls.... Oh come now. Fandom doesn't exist solely on the Internet or I wouldn't be in it, here talking to you. But I sympathise. And, conservative fogey that I am (a reactionary Capricorn), I have dark suspicions about the Net, based on reading a friend's mailing list over her shoulder once or twice. The postings were basically transcribed conversations, and let's face it: most people's conversation just isn't worth writing down. For what it's worth, it's a problem that knows no boundaries. I had a student in Japan who was a lawyer and whose partner was on the Net, and he said "I read my partner's messages once or twice, but they were so boring". Precisely. Chatter is chatter, in whatever language. My major concern is that people will start assuming that written English sounds or should sound the same as the transcribed chatter of the Net postings; and that, I fancy, will be the end of any notion of style and composition. You write what you read, and if what you read is mostly without shape or form, that's what you'll write.
[Harlem]:
Funny: it was writing m/m slash that felt immensely personal to me. I've written one f/f story, that tied itself into knots on questions of vocabulary - well, think of the available vocabulary for female genitalia, and you'll see the problem - but the sexual activities were more fantasy than personal experience and the emotions were my characters', not mine. But writing my first m/m story scared the wits out of me - sweet romantic semi-h/c though it was (maybe because it was sweet romantic semi- h/c?) I felt absolutely naked writing it. Horrible feelings of 'God this is so adolescent! 'God now everybody will know about me' 'God if someone reads this I'll have to kill myself, coupled with the unholy joy of actually putting the damning words on the paper'.
[Morticia]:
[Mortician]:
Only problem with some G/B is that the 'fragile flower' syndrome strikes again! It's nauseating to see Garak going all mushy over his 'sweet boy.' Don't forget he's a nasty Cardassian! DVS describes him best, with real feelings for Julian, but still scheming and manipulating. Besides, ail this happy-ever-after first timers are much too easy. Garak's murky past can hide more unpleasant surprises. Very probably, he tortured people - what about Bashir's ethical principles? Love doesn't cure all, you know.
[Lindar]:
CARLA's suggestion that we discuss the Internet is an excellent one, as the subject seems to be hot news. I can't afford to join it, what with the cost of modem, software and the monthly rental, and the more I hear about it the less inclined I become. I don't have time to do a lot of reading, and there seems to be such a vast amount of poor slash fiction coming through that it would take ages to download and sift through for stories I wanted to keep, it would certainly be useful to correspond with my few friends via E-mail, but a typed letter through the fax is just as quick and considerably cheaper. I'm also worried about distributing any personal stories, as it's obvious that there will eventually be a clamp-down on porn, and I'll bet slash is going to be included in that category - especially since minors can find so may stories headed "Adults only, if you are under 17 please don't read any further." What can anyone expect, except for them to say "Oh, goody!" and read on with great enthusiasm. I don't want to put my name down as a suspect pervert. As a technology freak to whom Science is God, I never thought I'd feel this way, but the information highway seems to be getting awfully clogged up with garbage. I think I'm going to wait for whatever phoenix rises from the flames of the present fiasco.
[Lindar]:
I'm just reading John Preston's autobiography My Life As A Pornographer and was surprised to find a chapter about two women friends of his who wrote and published underground Star Wars fanzines in America. He describes how interested he was to discover the existence of hurt/comfort, which he saw as a small part of the main S&M culture. He quotes "Han Solo as being tortured more often than any man in the history of the world". (Actually, I should think Jim Kirk really deserves that honour - unless anyone thinks differently?) He doesn't mention slash zines though, so I'm not sure if anyone would know the two women from his description of them as Karen and Sylvia, the latter being partially sighted.
[Franny]:
O'BRIEN: Why is it that there is very little ST:TNG slash? There's oodles and oodles of K/S, but when it comes to the gorgeous Captain Picard... The FEW good stories I have seen have been Picard/Q, but there was one memorable Picard/Data.
[Franny]:
VIRUS WARNING: I'm sure those of you who own PC's run clean systems but PLEASE let me reiterate that you must be careful, regardless of who or where you get your disks from. Treat everybody and everything with suspicion and you WON'T ever be surprised. A friend recently sent me a disk that was infected which I easily sorted out. The hard part was convincing her PC was infected. "Oh it couldn't possibly have come from me..." Does any of this sound remotely familiar?
[Rafferty]:
I would like to address the topic of slash fiction as a hobby we are ashamed of and the proper way it should be handled in our relationship with the rest of the world. I've been writing male gay fiction since 1979. My family, (my parents, my children, my sibling) all know what I do. And while my mother is cool enough to join us in a lesbian bar, she doesn't want to discuss male gay fiction at the dinner table. I respect the rights and wishes of my family as they respect mine. In the US, many citizens are extremely narrow minded about heterosexual sex. That places homosexuality as a major sin by Pat Buchannan and the Christian Coalition. If these people have their way, we will all be back in the dark ages. The way around this narrow minded thinking is through education, and not just education in the classroom, although we desperately need that. The form of attack in this case is quietly, through the ranks. If one person reads my fiction and begins to think about the possibilities of alternate sexuality and that love knows no bounds, then I have a victory. Alas, it is a victory I will probably never see, but I have knowledge that such events occur. The pen is, and always has been, mightier than the sword. For those of us who write, illustrate, edit, and/or publish, that needs to be enough for now. It is not time for the revolution, and may not be in our lifetimes. But the revolution will come, if we ail do our part, providing the written material for those who are ready. The ones who are ready will be driven by their own minds and hearts to discover the ideas which are represented by slash fandom. If we wave a red flag in front of the bull, we make him angry. However, if we slip something special in his dinner, we may make a friend. Be patient, ladies and gentlemen, spread the word quietly, and there will be a day when the world Gene Roddenberry envisioned will be reality. Does this mean I take myself and fandom too serious? Absolutely. I believe in IDIC, in the values represented by fandom, and in the visions of the Great Bird. It's not a religion, but it is a philosophy of life that has proven to me that people of all races, colors, creeds, etc., can live in harmony, and in fun, if we respect each other's cultures and values. Freedom for women, homosexuals, people of African descent, etc., will come only when the minds of everyone have been trained to accept IDIC. Before we start to sing Hallelujah and pass the collection plate, it is time to move on.
[Rafferty]:
Are we compelled as writers to commit to paper what is in our heads? Absolutely. Even if no else in the world reads what I have written, if I don't write it down, the images in my mind would drive me crazy.
[Minna]:
On the subject of the Internet, I can't really comment first-hand as I have no access to it. So far, I haven't heard much about it that's positive. I've heard about the detrimental effect it might have on zine sales. If people can exchange stories on the Internet what need would they have to buy zines? These people don't think ahead to what effect this will have on zine publication in the future. And where would that leave the majority of us with no access to the medium? Also, it seems to me that it might create an atmosphere of complete interbreeding with the same people influencing and reinforcing each other in a round-robin fashion, but I suppose that could be said of any forum, including this one. On the other hand your point about bringing people from different countries together is a valid one, especially if all this might eventually replace the idea of writing letters. Personally, I'd like to try joining in with a forum I find interesting, I'm curious about how it works and would like to see what benefits it could present getting in touch with other people that way.
[Minna]:
Further to your comment on US tv going all out for lesbians, I've now watched a few episodes of Voyager and think a possibly interesting pairing could be Janeway/Kes, with Neelix' resultant jealousy and Janeway's sense of having betrayed her relationship with her fiance. It'll never happen on screen of course but it would be fascinating. But my favourite pairing at the moment is still Garak/Bashir, I love the possibilities inherent in the relationship as presented on screen, there's so much there already to base a possible relationship on. What a healthy attitude Andrew Robinson is presenting if he's willing to not only consider the slash aspect of Garak's character but use it in his performance.
[Minna]:
Your point about zine production was very interesting and I appreciate your standpoint. The bottom line for me has to be whether I'm interested in the contents or not. I don't really care about the inclusion of artwork. It's nice but it's not necessary. All I really ask is that the print doesn't rub off after a couple of reads, that the binding stays on, and that the stories are well-written and interesting. I've bought some beautifully produced zines in which every single story was rubbish. I've also bought zines which looked pretty ordinary but they turned out to contain some of the best stories I've ever read.
[Minna]:
The most irritating slash stories to me are the ones where the author starts writing a slash pairing and is just too nervous to go on and just do it, so the whole story just collapses on the brink, neither slash nor hurt/comfort and the reader is left quite literally hanging, wondering why the author didn't have the courage of their convictions. I know a lot of us got started writing h/c first and progressed but when it happens time after time in the same author's stories it's disappointing. You begin to wonder when author and characters are going to take the plunge'. Very often they don't.
[Minna]:
I know I'm going to come across as a wet blanket by pointing this out but while hoping that you do enjoy yourself at the Star Trek 30th Anniversary Con in April, I hope someone has pointed out to you that this is not the usual type of convention. It's going to be a professionally-run event and has little or nothing in common with the usual kind of convention that everyone is used to. I attended one of Stargazer's events last September and was ultimately disappointed by the appalling lack of organisation, the deficiency of consideration for the comfort of the guest speakers on stage and the simple lack of anything for the audience to do in between talks - apart from buying merchandise of course. Having said that, I hope you prove me wrong and have a wonderful time.
[Sandi]:
The problem with waving the flag, however gently, is that one is just as likely to find oneself being beaten over the head with the pole! But were things always that way? I can recall, years ago, mentioning to a non- slash friend that the only thing missing from the end of a particular episode of Starsky & Hutch was the pair of them falling into bed together. I suggested someone should write the missing scene, not knowing that such a thing as slash existed, and back came the response 'Funny you should mention that but...' As simple as that and suddenly the door was open. But I have to admit that if I found myself in a similar situation now I doubt that I would make such a suggestion. Why? Look at the letters in LfB and see how the atmosphere has changed. Sixteen years ago the main preoccupation of most writers and editors was infringement of someone's copyright. What would Spelling say about S/H? Would George Lucas really carry out his threat to prosecute Star Wars fan writers? [3] These days the emphasis has moved to the danger of falling foul of the pornography laws and the fear of exposure. I know when I wrote Colours of Freedom, I spent a lot of time considering the implications of the age difference between Bridge and Lucas and hardly any at all wondering what the reaction of the seaQuest copyright holders might be. I think people are more aware these days of how vindictive outsiders can be and how ready some people are to line their pockets by selling other people's privacy to the tabloids. Hardly surprising with the mega-bucks to be had. Sadly, it no longer seems to be a case of Starsky asking Hutch 'Who do we trust?' but more 'Deep Throat cautioning Trust no one', and unless we can find a way around such an attitude, slash fandom will remain a closed shop. Or am I just paranoid?
[Sandi]:
I do agree with DRAGON'S comment that [slash] would make a good article for journalistic investigation provided that the right journalist got hold of it, Fleet Street (sorry 'Wapping' being notoriously homophobic. There was quite an interesting feature in Gay Times a couple of years ago, on Star Trek slash, although as I recall the writer couldn't understand why anyone would want to write the stuff. But it was one of those articles that makes you want to send them a stack of zines on other fandoms. Perhaps a publication like For Women would deal with it in a more sensitive way, after all they did have quite a bit to say in favour of the homoerotic stance of Interview with the Vampire, and they do seem to be more in touch about what turns women on these days. It sounds extreme but maybe, now that things are becoming more readily available through the Internet, we should give some thought to 'outing' ourselves - before a slug from The Sun does it for us.
[Sandi]:
As far as the Internet is concerned, I think that it will eventually become a way of bringing fans together from all around the world and will go some way to making the sharing of fan fiction easier (being able to download only those stories you really want for a start) but I think those days are still a long way off. I don't even have the finances for a computer, never mind connection to the Internet, and that is a situation which is unlikely to change for several years. That doesn't really bother me as I work with computers all day. What does concern me, reading through LfB, is that I - and others like me - are in danger of being left behind, both in terms of information about shows, zines and conventions and in the stories themselves. As FRANNY said, this is blatant elitism. Yes, fine stick everything on the Net if you like - but please don't forget the rest of us. Those who do are in danger of creating a two-tier fandom, the connected and the unconnected if you like.
[Sandi]:
I don't think it's fair to refer to British fanzines as being shabbier than their US counterparts. Lower production values, maybe, but shabbier implies a lack of care and I don't think that's true in the majority of cases. At an average of £5 we usually get what we pay for a good read with no frills. Glossy covers, laser printing and fancy bindings are fine, but I would not buy a zine that looks pretty at the sacrifice of quality in the stories. Having said that, I rarely buy zines at all from overseas, unless they come very highly recommended, partly because the cost of postage doubles the price and partly because I can't be bothered with all the problems involved in ordering. But what really saddens me is that some UK editors have suddenly taken to only publishing through overseas agents, effectively barring the British fan from buying the zines. If that is the price of so-called quality, give me recycled paper and a staple on the corner anytime.
[Sandi]:
Can I just say here that if you are looking for a really laid back fandom-related event, you could do worse that come to DEVACON. Okay, I know I'm biased as I'm organising it this year, but I've been to 4 of them as an attendee and I can honestly say the only thing I've ever been bullied/persuaded to do is take the helm for No 5. I think one of the advantages is that Devacon is not tied to any one specific series or genre, anything and everything is welcome and there is always someone around ready to discuss it. I've discovered several new fandom through silly late-night conversations. There is a programme of sorts, but it is very loose with lots of free time, and there are plenty of places where you can sit and talk or read without putting yourself on public display or having to worry about those zines with the covers we all love to hate! There is also a zine library, a dealer's section and a charity auction, and this year we hope to have a video library as well, for those times when someone feels like just crashing out in front of a favourite episode. If anyone out there is interested, drop me a line at the convention address.
[Ferret]:
Big studios getting mad about slash, well, a lot of them have known about it for years. I think it's something most of the producers of shows and movies would rather just ignore. As long as we spend the money on the tickets, or watch the shows to keep the ratings up, I dare say most of them don't care too much. This may change of course, with Promise Keepers and other new moral majority style movements coming out of America, something to be very worried about.
[Ferret]:
I heard that Bill Hupe was no longer going to be printing zines for other people. I've known that he has wanted to cut down the size of his business, and has been looking to stop altogether for some time. Now that his health is poor, it appears we may be losing Bill as a good source of zines and agenting duties.
[Ferret]:
It's unclear as to what his future plans are at this stage though. I've always taken my zines to an ordinary copy shop, sans artwork. I'm lucky in that I'm reasonably attractive, and have an incredibly large bust. I take the masters to my university print shop, which is run by spotty 15 year olds. They are so focused on trying to look down my cleavage that they have no idea what they are copying. It's not terribly safe, but it is a LOT cheaper than ordinary copy shops. I'd never take it to a private print shop, they are far too likely to try and read what you are printing. They like to make suggestions, offer comments on how to keep the costs down, and I want them to stay out of it!
[Ferret]:
The slash chat list is very rarely explicit. Mostly it's comments on grammar and punctuation, the odd comments on Professionals (and lately Due South), it's not an explicit forum, far less than this newsletter in fact.
[Ferret]:
I'm surprised when you say you are fed up with finding people who don't know slash. Personally, I love that. It's a personal challenge to me to assess every new fan I meet for their potential to join our ranks. I was pleased at a small convention I attended, when I scored 7 tries and 5 conversions getting people over to the side of slash. Bit like a religious missionary, I go forth and spread the word. I'm not ashamed of my hobby, but a little discretion never goes astray, at least not in my own life. I know many people who are very open about it, with the belief (and they are most probably correct) that we should be allowed the same degree of openness as gays call for. I prefer to be closeted, at least at work, but I certainly don't hide it within fandom circles.
[Ferret]:
You will be disappointed to notice in second season Due South they are now introducing female romantic characters. Apparently there had been questions, both about the lack of female characters, and the unsure heterosexuality of the boys, so the writers felt it necessary to bring in women. These are intended to be long term relationships, rather than bimbo of the week, which is rather worse I think. Harder to write out long term females, than one episode walk-on-drag-off girlfriends. Glad to hear you are writing for the show, it's one that certainly gets my creative juices flowing!
[Ferret]:
In my years on the Internet, I've never seen Alexis Rogers stories. To my knowledge, most slash fans are fairly honourable about putting things on the net, but any X Files stories do appear to be fair game. I've had X Files slash stories subbed to my zine, and I'm very hesitant to publish them, as I know it will be free to the net very quickly, and I may end up being blamed for publishing something that the net users consider should be freely available.
[Ferret]:
There is a lot of Due South activity on the Internet, yes. There is a discussion list with about 600 members, a Paul Gross Estrogen Brigade, a David Marciano Estrogen Brigade, a fiction list, and an adult fiction list. All in all, I get about 200 messages a day for Due South on the Internet. The Adult Fiction is fairly dominated by James and myself, so it's become, as you can imagine, a slash list. You will have to find someone who has access and see if they will keep a file for you, of anything of interest. The discussion list, to be honest, is 90% crap, so you don't miss much on that. On the other hand, it is interesting to chat to the story coordinator and other people who work for Alliance, when they drop into the list. It's also been an interesting way of finding fans who can be brought over to the side of slash, lots of fans just ripe for the picking, but who have not been exposed to a slash environment previously.
[Ferret]:
I doubt that the Internet will cause the death of zines, at least, not for a long time. There is a large amount of pleasure in just holding a lovely new zine, smelling the paper and admiring the work that has gone into it. As you say, getting things off the net is a pale comparison. I do download large sections of stories, and put together my own zines from those that prove worth keeping, but there is such a lot of stuff going around that really is terrible. There are also quite a few stories that could have been dramatically improved for the intervention of a good editor, and that does seem to be the biggest waste. I do exchange long involved letters, rather as with this forum, but only in private, not on the main mailing list. From an editors point of view, I find the Email system absolutely wonderful. Rather than making comments on a story, then waiting a few weeks to talk to the author about it when she responds, then sending them back etc., we can do the same activity in the span of a day or two. This immediate feedback for editors and authors has spoiled me, I find I'm impatient now with ordinary snail mail, and keep tapping my fingers, when is that story coming back? Even though I do spend four hours a day on the Internet, this doesn't stop me from enjoying socialising with other fans though, chin wagging, or going to cons. It is simply another tool, another forum, and has allowed me to contact many new people all around the world that I would not have been able to meet otherwise, it's a new forum, but it's not going to cause the death of old forums, but will take it's place, along with televisions, telephones, and VCRs as a new way of enjoying old favourites. I love fanzines, and use the Internet as a way of increasing my contributor base. There will be new rules to learn, new ways of operating, but as long as fans don't cut their own throats by putting things on the net that are not intended to be there, I don't think it will stop me producing fanzines, not for a long time anyway. The only thing that stops me producing fanzines is negative feedback, and luckily there is very little of that.
[Ferret]:
I've kind of covered large parts of the topic of discussion number one - Internet effects. I see both negative and positive effects. The most negative effect as far as I'm concerned is that it takes away far too much time from my writing and zine production time. I'm addicted, like I am to coca cola, and waste far too much time on the Email. But, it's allowed me to meet some fabulous people, meet new contributors, find out the most intimate details of shows, and get great new insights from other fans (even gen fans) that can be incorporated into future stories. Copyright is a problem, but hey, that started with Guttenberg.
[Ferret]:
Read with interest your review of the con. One thing I thought I'd mention, you say there was no facility for showing episodes of shows, etc., and we have the same problem here. Ours is not an organisational choice though, because of copyright problems, we are not allowed to run a video program. People are allowed to bring their own VCRs and have private room showings, but no videos can be run by the con for public viewing. Things are changing...
[Barbara]:
Fandom and the Internet. Well, I don't posses a computer so I don't have access, but I'm going to drop my two-pennyworth in just the same. Putting slash on the Net worries me. Children are computer literate at an early age nowadays, and there have been a number of recent reports of parents finding their kids in possession of pornographic material picked up from the Internet. Quite rightly, the parents were horrified and angry, and there were demands that something be done about such fifth being available where minors could get their sticky hands on it. In the circumstances, my sympathies are all with the parents. Now, like the rest of you out there, I assume, I personally do not consider slash to be pornography. If I did, I wouldn't be reading it. But, hey, we're walking a fine line here: one person's homoeroticism is another's porn, and the second person is just as entitled to his opinion as the first. Ten or eleven years ago when I read my first K/S story, I shocked my tiny convent educated mind to its core, and had a humbling experience discovering I wasn't as liberal as I'd always thought I was. Since then, obviously, my opinions have changed, and thankfully I am now much more open-minded. But there are a lot of people out there who are not. I don't want to see the pastime I enjoy so much making lurid headlines in the tabloid press because it comes to the attention of someone who is offended by it, or because parents raise a rumpus about their kids having read what they consider pornographic stories on the Net. I don't want to offend anyone, nor do I want to corrupt children, and I sure as hell don't want to be accused of doing so at second hand because other people are irresponsible. Don't say it couldn't happen. Call me paranoid if you like, but personally I think it's only a matter of time if slash fans are not careful. Now I know there are those of you who wouldn't mind slash being 'outed' but I personally would find the publicity terminally embarrassing. An awful lots of people, friends and acquaintances, know I am a fan of certain TV shows. Some of them think I'm a bit odd because of it (they're entitled, and I don't care). But only two 'very' close friends outside of fandom know that slash exists, and even they do not know I read so much of it. They think it's quite funny, really, a minor aberration, and I want to keep it that way. Looking at the problem from another angle, quite apart from being accused of corrupting minors, or being embarrassed by friends discovering what we like to read, what about the vast numbers of 'other fans' out there? Those who either don't know about, or disapprove of and don't want to read the slash element of fandom? If they come across it on the Net, won't they be offended or embarrassed? If its existence is splashed all over the newspapers, they, the innocent, will be accused by association of the same things we are accused of, and that's 'not fair'! We have no right to put them in that sort of spot, and let me say clearly that were the positions reversed I would be very angry indeed and would probably disassociate myself from fannish circles as quickly as I could. Regarding what someone said about letting would-be slash fans know that it exists - well, I found it without help from the Net, each of you found it without help from the Net, and I fail to see how anyone else who truly 'wants' to find it.
[O'Brien]:
The rest of my comments for this issue concern fan fiction and the publishing of slash on the Internet. A number of writers in #28 addressed this subject. JUDITH PROCTOR said she believed that publishing slash on the 'Net was okay within reason. I think the 'within reason' has to mean that it is published in a limited forum where the members have been screened and are known, and the fiction that is published must have the permission of the writer and/or publisher. One of the biggest objections to slash being published on the 'Net is that fans are ignoring common courtesy, and scanning in stories or whole zines that do not belong to them and that they do not have permission to publish via the 'Net. Speaking as a zine publisher, I would be horrified and outraged (and vulnerable!) if I found out one of my zines was floating around cyberspace. The only way I have any control over my work (and the only way I can protect myself) is to sell the zines myself (or allow my official agent Bill Hupe to sell them), and require an age statement. I don't see why that is too much to ask. I agree with JUDITH that we 'need to wave the flag gently, and let people know that slash exists', but I strongly advise caution when talking to total strangers on a computer. Most of us got into fandom, and zine buying/reading, the old fashioned way, back before computers were a part of our daily lives. We subscribed to info-zines and l/z's to keep up with the latest, and we attended cons when we could, and we stayed in contact with as many fan friends as we had time for. Fandom was up close and personal, and it was (and is!) a way of life. These days, anybody can log onto a bulletin board and chat with dozens or hundreds of strangers about their favorite TV shows, and eventually the subject of fan fiction will be mentioned. Somebody who knows absolutely nothing about fandom or zines or fan fiction can download a story, read it, and want more. And I'm sure they'll have no trouble finding all they want, some of which is bound to be of a sexual nature. I hate the impersonal nature of all this. Fandom is very personal to me, and I want to know who I'm selling my zines to. And it has nothing to do with the fact that I lose sales if one of my zines is scanned onto the 'Net. Money is not the issue here, since nobody publishes zines to make money (you're lucky if you break even). JUDITH states that "we treat our hobby as though we should be ashamed of it". No, I'm not ashamed of it, but I don't want to read an article about it in People magazine either. It's nobody's business except those of us who share the love for it. Fandom is a very special way of life for a whole lot of wonderful people, but why should we have to explain ourselves to non-fans? I don't stick my nose into their hobbies, so why should they try to stick their noses into mine? And believe me, I think it could become a very public issue very easily. We must be careful, because in many minds what we do would be considered pornography. The moral do-gooders of this world think they have the right (the God-given responsibility!) to regulate that sort of thing. I understand that some kid could lie to me on an age statement and say they're 35, but if that kid's mother comes at me later and says I'm corrupting her little dear, at least I have something in writing. I've protected myself. But what if one of my very sexually explicit zines is scanned onto the 'Net without my knowledge, and some outraged mom (or many outraged moms!) raise a stink about the porn I'm distributing. I have no protection and no defence. It's a scary prospect. I totally agree with FRANNY's comment that as far as fan culture is concerned, the Internet offers nothing. I, too, will be glad when fine fuss is over. It's the world's newest gadget, and like all gadgets, the newness is bound to wear off eventually. It's a handy tool to research things like episode titles for your favorite shows and to send and receive quickly messages, but to my mind it's simply too public to try to have real conversations. I prefer the intimacy of writing long personal letters to fan friends.
[Jem]:
To start with the proposed topics of this issue: Well, I've only had my Internet access for a couple weeks and still play around with it in awed fascination, so anything I could possibly say about its effects on fandom would be highly theoretical at this point. I'll say something once I'm past the stage of confusion mixing with doubts and delights.
[Jem]:
The fine line between excessive visibility and obscurity/waving the flag gently - my feelings exactly. I've introduced a number of friends to slash, and I've had the same reaction - "Where can I get it?"- quite a few times. There are so many potential readers/writers out there who'd greatly enjoy slash, if only they knew about it... Basically, I want to share the fun and encourage others to share their daring fantasies instead of locking them away. But, to answer your question: Yes, I think there's still a lot of prejudice embedded in our own minds, like it or not. Women are not supposed to enjoy porn, let alone write it, and if they do, it's supposed to be sweet, exclusively straight material. And even if you're lucky enough to live in a tolerant social environment, there's always subliminal pressure at work, generating insecurities. I've never felt ashamed of liking slash, but I'm still aware that it's nothing you can flaunt like any other hobby. There's always a brief moment of hesitation before you tell someone about it, always a decision to make, because we ail know slash doesn't exactly conform to cultural standards. It's a matter of positively and consciously dealing with those facts, I believe, in a way that doesn't create feelings of rejection, irritation, isolation in ourselves.
[Jem]:
Yes, the way the receiving partner in anal intercourse is often identified passive in the wider sense of the word disturbs me too. There seems to be a tendency in slash fiction to think of the receiving partner as inactive, vulnerable, maybe even weaker (which seems rather rare in gay fiction, by contrast). Reversely, a slash character perceived as more sensitive, emotional, reserved, often ends up in that position. I can't help thinking that's the heterosexual norm showing: Things may be changing by now, but the fact that female anatomy has always been a powerful point in favour of the notion that women are naturally the weaker sex remains. Penetration is still a very virulent symbol of power, and I think that's why the receiving/traditionally female position is generally considered a passivity, not an activity. I still like to think that writing slash has a lot to do with wanting to imagine an equal relationship. I certainly do. (Those Han/Luke stories that all but turn Luke into a coy, pretty girl will bug me forever!) Equality in a relationship, the way I see it, comes from balancing individual strengths and weaknesses, which means that the power-flows can change according to the situation.
[Nina]:
You say slash should be made more public - I trust you mean within fandom itself and not the mundane world. I don't know what job you do but certainly my employers would take a very dim view if I started talking about the kind of things I write. Of course I agree with you - we should be able to be open about slash and that would be fine if everyone in the world was open-minded and reasonable but sadly they're not. Instead, they're bigoted and vindictive.
[Nina]:
I agree with your points about the Internet. Speaking as one who doesn't even have a PC, let alone plugged into the Internet, and furthermore, having no intention of altering this situation I'm beginning to feel something of a social pariah. I really don't think you can beat pen, paper and type.
[Willow]:
Like any other piece of technology, I guess the Internet will change fandom. I do have an internet connection if anyone is interested - [redacted] which I use all the time. Mostly I use email and news but occasionally the web. If you are in fandom and going to cons or belong to letterzines then the internet probably won't make much difference to you, but if you are new to fandom it could make a huge difference. As a first contact point you can find people/information out there. As FERRET said, she has corrupted several people to Due South slash purely through meeting them on the Due South list. The question is, would these people have found slash fandom if we weren't checking everyone on the list for hidden slash tendencies. If they got into traditional fandom they might, but it takes time. I spent years in fandom before I found K/S, and then years more before I found any other slash fandom. What made it worse was that I knew there was other stuff out there but no-one I knew, knew any more about it than I did. Putting an advert for DS slash zines on the adult DS fiction list got a huge response, more than any other advert I believe. Yes, I write lots of one/two/three line messages to email to people, so no I am not writing letters to them, but there are people on the net that I swap long letters with every other day. Like every other form of communication there are varying levels. Many people I write a one/two line message to once a month, others get page long screeds of text every other day and other people get 5 or 10 one line notes a day. They are all communications and ail valid conversations in their own way. I have attacks of apathy and talk to no-one for a while but then that holds true for non net conversations as well. I remember a con where we spent the whole time in our room because we couldn't be bothered to go to the bar. The net does make it very easy to converse with people anywhere in the world. It doesn't matter if the person I am talking to is in the UK, America or Australia I can get a message to them and their reply very fast. The slowest bit of the conversation is waiting for the other person to read their mail! When I talk to people on the net I rarely take any notice of where in the world they are. When writing letters on paper, and sending it through normal mail, it takes ages to get to the addressee and then to get a reply back. I have had a long, ongoing conversation with a fan in the states. Even if we both wrote out replies and sent them back the next day, it was usually two weeks between letters. On the net I can have the same conversation, writing the same long letters and it can take only hours between letters.
[Willow]:
I love Due South with a passion. Like I said last time, it is the first fiction that has actually got me writing. I've spent years daydreaming about cop shows and changing the endings/plots to suit what I wanted for/from the characters but DS actually has me writing these ideas down. I am desperately in love with Ray Vecchio but I'm afraid that I have to admit that I don't like Fraser that much. He is very pretty but it is a cold prettiness. He is unfailingly polite to everyone, except Ray, but it strikes me that it is the sort of politeness that you don't think about. It is automatic for him to say Thank You Kindly, it doesn't seem to mean that he has thought any more about you than the person who shuts the door in your face. I think this is where the dissatisfaction BAGHEERA found comes from. It is obvious, to us anyway, that Ray loves Fraser but I'm not really sure that Fraser likes, let alone loves, Ray.
[Cushy]:
I am afraid that I do not agree with your comment that fandom solely exists on the internet. I agree that not everything is made freely available on the Internet but this quite often has something to do with which Server you are plugged into. Some censor - other's don't. You have to find one that doesn't. KITTY FISHER was amazed at how much she could find on the Net when she visited me - stuff that she hadn't been able to access from her own computer and we boiled it down to the fact that she was with CompuServe and I was with Mistral. There you have it. I love the Net - and I adore downloading stories. I am aware though of a duty to spread these stories around to my friends who do not have access to the Net. No different surely to those days when those with decent photocopiers at work copied stories for their friends who couldn't do it themselves. As for the fact that a lot of fiction is 'dross' - well I'm sorry but a lot of the old 'circuit B/D stories could come under that heading in my opinion. Sometimes if you are lucky you find a real gem, and anyway, when I send my hard earned dollars off to the States to purchase a zine - I am not always that happy with what comes back.
[Porn]:
I'd like to express how glad I am that LfB is thriving now, not merely surviving. It's the only credible organ of communication for slash fans and writers in the UK which spans all fandom. I can only hope that it will continue in newsletter form and will not disappear onto the Internet, beyond the ken of those of us who don't have the technology nor the wish to communicate solely in cyberspace. A friend of mine was saying recently that zine sales and con attendances particularly in the States had both dropped significantly due to the increasing use of the Internet. It would be a very great shame indeed if networks like LfB became victims of Interetitis - and I speak now as one who does love Technology in all its manifestations (show me a machine and I will instantly bond with it) - because I want letters, papers, books, phones and meetings with real people (not just faces on screens) to survive into the next century. Am I weird or what? What??
[Tarlan]:
As to whether you have more understanding - tolerant? - friends or whether you are thicker skinned or more tactful - well, all I can say is that people tend to gravitate towards like-minded individuals. I have several distinct groups of friends: fandom friends and Outside friends. I must admit that I feel most comfortable with friends I have made since getting involved in fandom. They are the people I can talk to about anything from my deepest thoughts to my highest aspirations and I can honestly say that there are some who know me far better than even my own husband. In many respects I feel extremely lucky that I found so many like-minded people. However, even in this group there are some who do not like the premise of slash and I respect their choice by not attempting to ram it down their throat in some conceited idea that they will change their mind. As you said, I know they hate it, they know I write it but we reached a decision a long time ago to allow each other our own space on this issue. Are we ashamed of our hobby? I think it goes much deeper than that. We are in 'changing times' and I, for one, am not too sure where I sit in both emotional, social and legal terms. Believe it or not, even men feel uptight about buying soft-porn. You can tell because they usually stick the magazine between a copy of Train Spotter's Monthly and Car Maintenance Weekly hoping to make it less obvious!!!
[Tarlan]:
I am determined to get on-line one of these days but I must admit that it seems to be who you know that matters if you want to get into any of the important forums. The Internet is not as open as implied.
[Mashuma]:
I am sure that you are familiar with all the Lucas brouhaha that pretty effectively seemed to nip Star Wars slash in the bud. I can imagine that it is pretty frustrating not having a subgroup to bounce your ideas off... actually I don't have to imagine, considering all the fandoms I am in that no one else seems to know... any time you want to talk Han/Luke, I'd love to listen.
References
- ^ easy enough to do as there isn't much
- ^ Actually, this fan was one of the first fans to agree to have their slash fiction posted online. See The Starsky & Hutch Archive (mid-1990s).
- ^ This fan is probably referring not to the Star Wars Letters, but to a more recent kerfuffle regarding Lucas and one of the newer movies.