User talk:Greer Watson

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Thank you for adding the link to the Forever Knight Wiki. I didn't know there was one and it looks awesome! --Doro 17:17, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

Note to self

Thank You

Thank you, Greer Watson, for working on IDIC - Fact or Fiction?. I clomped around with those opening paragraphs, but it didn't make things much better. You explained it far better than I. It reads beautifully! --Mrs. Potato Head 12:50, 6 October 2012 (UTC)

Sometimes it helps just to have an ignorant eye look at it. Knowing nothing about it, I couldn't make assumptions. --Greer Watson 12:53, 6 October 2012 (UTC)

FK Interviews

Greer, I'd love to be able to add some excerpts and links to some Forever Knight interviews done with fans. So far, I've been unable to locate any. Can you steer me the right way? --Mrs. Potato Head (talk) 23:31, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

I honestly can't think of any; but then I wasn't around back in the beginning. I've just posted a query on the mailing list, though. Maybe that will turn up something. --Greer Watson (talk) 23:57, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
Thank you, and I'm crossing my fingers. --Mrs. Potato Head (talk) 00:21, 7 September 2013 (UTC)


Well, I've had some response. It's pretty vague, I'm afraid. However, I've asked for more detail; and it's possible someone may recall something else. Here's what I've got so far, for what it's worth:

  • Gwenn Musicante may have interviewed fans for her book, Forever Knight: A Reference Guide. Of course, I can't locate my copy. However, I must have used it when writing the article for the FK Wiki; and it actually looks as though the people she interviewed were only actors and others associated with the show itself.
  • Someone thinks there was a fan (name unknown) who may have interviewed fellow fans a long time ago as part of her thesis, or maybe for a college paper.
  • Someone thinks the NATPE 7 had an interview or article about them. If it's what I think she's recalling, i.e. The NATPE Seven History Page, it's a write-up memoire type thing. We've now got it in the website archive, though; so you can take a look.
  • Someone says she has (but has never finished viewing) videos from Bridging the Night which she thinks supposedly have fan interviews on them.
  • Someone says she has an interview she once did with Susan Garrett.

I'm following up on the last two, which are obviously the most hopeful. --Greer Watson (talk) 21:58, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

Oh, you might want to check the back issues of The Crusader. No guarantees there are any interviews in there, though. --Greer Watson (talk) 22:04, 8 September 2013 (UTC)
Thank you, Greer. I hope you have good luck with Susan Garrett's interview. I always enjoy reading what she has to say. I'll take a look at Crusader and see if I can find anything. It's always a puzzle why some fandoms had a tradition of fan reviews and others didn't. --Mrs. Potato Head (talk) 23:29, 8 September 2013 (UTC)
I think in the case of FK it's because there was a tradition of saying that the fandom only had one BNF, i.e. Susan. It meant, of course, that no one else could possibly be considered interviewable. --Greer Watson (talk) 00:02, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
That's too bad. Part of a BNF's "responsibilities" is to foster the fandom in which they reside, and interviews with fans are part of it. In any case, I went though each page of Crusader and while I found a flyer, a date, and a profile we can use, sadly no interviews with people who were not pro. --Mrs. Potato Head (talk) 00:18, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
Well, Susan is respected for all the other things she did for the fandom—starting awards, stimulating challenges, running polls, writing fan fiction, publishing fanzines, helping at cons, and so on. It was she who, concerned to preserve our history, started wiki-ing about it (and got me involved, come to that). No one person can do everything, after all. --Greer Watson (talk) 01:30, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
You mentioned finding a profile. That addition you just made to Nancy Taylor's page? You know that sort of thing we do have—people giving brief "how I got into fandom/FK" type comments, sometimes on their journals but also on FORKNI-L. How one might go about finding them is another matter. The list is archived, at least since 2000; but it's indexed by date, not subject. --Greer Watson (talk) 01:38, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
Those profiles would be super to add. I know that the Cascade Library has some profiles for TS fans at the interview page. At some point, someone could go through and add them to fan pages as needed. Linking all these fan interviews up to fan pages is a future project. --Mrs. Potato Head (talk) 01:53, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
It occurs to me that one reason we have few interviews in FK fandom is that that formal interviews would pretty well be limited to the fanzine era, and FK moved on line fairly quickly. (I just heard back about the interview with Susan, by the way; it was in a fanzine. The person in question is going to see if she can look it out.) If you think about the logistics of mailing lists, they don't lend themselves readily to interviews per se. It's more that someone asks a question or opens a topic, and then several people reminisce in response. --Greer Watson (talk) 03:04, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
Is the Garrett interview she's looking for different than this one? Pop Stand Express Interview with Susan M. Garrett. Hopefully yes, as it may have a FK focus. --Mrs. Potato Head (talk) 12:56, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
You have a date of 1986 on that one, so this has to be different. FK didn't start airing until 1992. --Greer Watson (talk) 14:38, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
It turns out that Gwenn Musicante's Forever Knight: A Reference Guide has interviews with the authors of the tie-in novels. One of them is Susan Garrett. The others are Susan Sizemore, and Laura Fargas and Jayel Wylie (who wrote as Anne Hathaway-Nayne). While the main focus is on their writing the tie-ins, there is some more general discussion. I don't know if any of the latter were part of "fandom", i.e. on the mailing list; but all self-identify as fans, if only of the wildly enthusiastic variety. If you don't have access to a copy of the book, I guess I'll have to do the article(s) myself. Do you want just Susan, or all four?
As for the radio interview with Deborah Hymon, this happened because she's a romance writer, but she definitely discusses fan fiction in general, and Forever Knight in particular, as well as being a fan writer. The interview took place on http://www.jewelsway.com on January 19, 2005. Fortunately, the whole thing was recorded and uploaded by Steph: I just found that she put it on her website, so it's in our archive (with permission). It's about two hours long, so Steph broke it into five parts. There's no transcript, I'm afraid: you'll just have to listen to it, and transcribe anything you want to quote. You can find it here: http://www.foreverknight.org/deborah_hymon.html --Greer Watson (talk) 01:38, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
I don't have a copy of the book. I think that if interviews (all 4) talk about Forever Knight fandom and if they self-identify as fans, then the interviews would be good to have. You could do them yourself, or could scan the pages and send them to me.
As per the radio interview, what I've done with a couple of prior video interviews is make a page and provide the link. I haven't watched them myself yet. Ideally, it would be good to listen/watch them and get some excerpts, but to make note of their existence is about my speed right now. There are a handful of Pros letterzine interviews for which I also only made a very rudimentary page due to privacy concerns -- I don't feel comfortable quoting but instead will summarize. Those I've left for later, too.
I'll go ahead and make a page for the Deborah Hymon interview. --Mrs. Potato Head (talk) 12:05, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

Kenaz?

Kenaz redirects to kenazfiction. Kenaz is a Harry Potter fan. Do you know if she is the same person as the Mary Renault fan? --Mrs. Potato Head (talk) 21:37, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

I suspect the redirect should probably go the other way. If you look at http://kenazfiction.livejournal.com/ , it looks as though the name of her LJ actually stands for "Kenaz's Fiction", run together as one word. Harry Potter is one of the tags, along with Renault (and others). --Greer Watson (talk) 03:29, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

Wars

Greer, do you know more about the history of the type of activity/fanworks that are "the wars"? Was it something that started with other fandoms, media or otherwise? I just finished up with Command Center, and they had what sounds like a more informal, but but very similar activity that started as "Alphan Biographies" in about 1980/1981 and became a separate thing that lasted over a number of years in the newsletter (Command Center). They even called it "the wars" at one point. I think it would be really interesting to have a section on the Forever Knight Wars page regarding the history of "wars" or perhaps a separate page about these type of "wars." --MPH (talk) 15:52, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

It is a truism in FK fandom that our wars are unique.  ;)   However, people who've been told about them do occasionally say that some fandom of their has something similar.
They started spontaneously on list in January 1994 as a result of growing factionalism between fans of the various characters, esp. fans of Nick vs. fans of LaCroix. The story is oft told to the point where, like most legends, it comes with variants.
Although it's been written up here on Fanlore, the fullest exposition (still lacking so much!) is on the FK Wiki. I'll point you to a few articles, and you can click links from there. First look at FK Wars. Then go to Factions. These are both essential reading. If you want a sample, there is one (and only one) war that has been written up in excruciating detail, and that is War Fourteen. However, that is largely because it was the worst of the wars, with an utterly incompetent War Mistress; and it was something of a post-war catharsis for me. I got partway through doing something similar for War Fifteen (the latest), but got sidetracked by other shiny pretties.
"Alphan Biographies" suggests a possible parallel with the way the ITOWverse started. You might want to check that out as well. I can send you more on that, if it looks relevant, since I did a conference paper a few years back. (Have to be e-mailed, though.) --Greer Watson (talk) 21:56, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

Queen

I want to compliment you on the Queen (Dragonriders of Pern story) page. I'm in awe! You did a really good job of bringing in a variety of comments and viewpoints in a very readable and entertaining way. Very nicely done. --MPH (talk) 12:24, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

Thanks! I guess laying out this sort of detailed analysis comes from my academic background. It's a complicated issue, isn't it? On the one hand, you have the response to the story itself; and, on the other hand, the response to the circumstances of the story.
I'm close to running into a problem, though. Not in the next section, which will deal with the belatedly-appended Author's Note. That is no bigger deal than the things I've discussed up till now. However, I then hit the big wankiness, which runs into pages of comments on both FFA and Yuletide Coal.
Although I could try to write it up, I have a strong feeling that I ought to recuse myself—on the principle that justice must not only be done but be seen to be done. In other words, although I was barely tangentially involved myself, my sister was dead centre. And, when all is said and done, she is my sister. (Also, the FFA/Coal people mostly ascribe everything to "the Watson sisters", even though all I really did was rec the story to her. And then tell her never to respond to anonymous comments, to which she said something along the lines of, "But I have to set the record straight.")
The trouble is that, though I think I can maintain an academically analytic frame of mind, especially after so many years (!), I probably ought to hand over at that point to someone else. However, I don't think anyone else is prepared to slog through the posts, which go on and on and ... on.
In a way, I wish I never started the article. However, I had originally thought that the only issue was the comment war on the story itself, i.e. on AO3, which had been deleted by the Yuletide admins. It was still in a window on Flo's computer; so, at her request, I copy-pasted it into a Word doc for her, meaning there still existed a record of what was actually said. (Note: it's only slightly longer than the chain of comments on the screencap in the FFA wiki. The existence of that record means that anyone could have written the article. *sigh* Only no one had.)
After starting the article, it occurred to me to google FFA (of which first I heard about 18 months ago) to see if there had been anything about it there. At which point I got an eyeful!
Putting me in a dilemma, as you can imagine. Still, there's at least a little more that I can do with a clear conscience. After which I'll have to see.
Perhaps, when I get that far, you (or someone else in the Gardener line) would consider double-checking and editing what I write? I would certainly feel more comfortable that justice would be done to all if there's someone looking over my shoulder. --Greer Watson (talk) 18:41, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
Perhaps with the parts you're feeling unsure about, you can set up some headers and very brief statements about the topics, then include links to discussions under each one. It's a way of including the differing viewpoints and comments without having to get too involved in transcribing and choosing them. I know when I get into something over my head, something that feels overwhelming for whatever reason, it helps to include points in an outline. It does at several things: it helps sort out my feelings, it suggests a path for someone down the line to follow if needed, and the links preserve the discussion for either me (for a time when I'm feeling more psychologically capable) or if not, for others to use in reconstructing the events. This also takes some of the pressure off of myself, because even if I know I can't do justice to the article, I am providing some hints and info for others to pursue it.
I'll also try to follow along later and check things. Good plan? --MPH (talk) 20:28, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
That may work. I'll see how it goes when the time comes. Certainly, there are bound to be times when I get hot under the collar reading the wank; so anything that keeps me at a reasonable distance is a definite plus.
(I've already been preserving a long list of links on the Talk page for the story, since there are far too many to keep track of otherwise.) --Greer Watson (talk) 20:38, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

Catching Cat

Do you know if there is Forever Knight or Nick Knight element to this original fic: Catching Cat? --MPH (talk) 13:12, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

Not that I know of. The description doesn't make it sound likely, though I suppose there may be a minor crossover or "inspired by" element to it. It's not something we have in the main archive, that's certain (though the early FK zine writers were often not on list). --Greer Watson (talk) 21:32, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

Fan Run Edit

Hi Greer Watson,

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enchantedsleeper (talk)

Fanlore Committee

No idea how that happened. Gremlins, I suppose. I was trying to clean up some SPaG, which shouldn't have deleted more than the odd word or two. --Greer Watson (talk) 22:35, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
That "disappearing text" thing has happened to me before, too, Greer. It was very mysterious! --MPH (talk) 23:43, 29 June 2018 (UTC)