User talk:Greer Watson

Thank you for adding the link to the Forever Knight Wiki. I didn't know there was one and it looks awesome! --Doro 17:17, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

Note to self

• Fan Fiction survey results 2000 - stats from 714 writers and readers on (a) reasons and frequency (b) feedback.

Thank You

Thank you, Greer Watson, for working on IDIC - Fact or Fiction?. I clomped around with those opening paragraphs, but it didn't make things much better. You explained it far better than I. It reads beautifully! --Mrs. Potato Head 12:50, 6 October 2012 (UTC)

Sometimes it helps just to have an ignorant eye look at it. Knowing nothing about it, I couldn't make assumptions. --Greer Watson 12:53, 6 October 2012 (UTC)

FK Interviews

Greer, I'd love to be able to add some excerpts and links to some Forever Knight interviews done with fans. So far, I've been unable to locate any. Can you steer me the right way? --Mrs. Potato Head (talk) 23:31, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

I honestly can't think of any; but then I wasn't around back in the beginning. I've just posted a query on the mailing list, though. Maybe that will turn up something. --Greer Watson (talk) 23:57, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

Thank you, and I'm crossing my fingers. --Mrs. Potato Head (talk) 00:21, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

Well, I've had some response. It's pretty vague, I'm afraid. However, I've asked for more detail; and it's possible someone may recall something else. Here's what I've got so far, for what it's worth:

• Gwenn Musicante may have interviewed fans for her book, Forever Knight: A Reference Guide. Of course, I can't locate my copy. However, I must have used it when writing the article for the FK Wiki; and it actually looks as though the people she interviewed were only actors and others associated with the show itself.
• Someone thinks there was a fan (name unknown) who may have interviewed fellow fans a long time ago as part of her thesis, or maybe for a college paper.
• Someone thinks the NATPE 7 had an interview or article about them. If it's what I think she's recalling, i.e. The NATPE Seven History Page, it's a write-up memoire type thing. We've now got it in the website archive, though; so you can take a look.
• Someone says she has (but has never finished viewing) videos from Bridging the Night which she thinks supposedly have fan interviews on them.
• Someone says she has an interview she once did with Susan Garrett.

I'm following up on the last two, which are obviously the most hopeful. --Greer Watson (talk) 21:58, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

Oh, you might want to check the back issues of The Crusader. No guarantees there are any interviews in there, though. --Greer Watson (talk) 22:04, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

Thank you, Greer. I hope you have good luck with Susan Garrett's interview. I always enjoy reading what she has to say. I'll take a look at Crusader and see if I can find anything. It's always a puzzle why some fandoms had a tradition of fan reviews and others didn't. --Mrs. Potato Head (talk) 23:29, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

I think in the case of FK it's because there was a tradition of saying that the fandom only had one BNF, i.e. Susan. It meant, of course, that no one else could possibly be considered interviewable. --Greer Watson (talk) 00:02, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

That's too bad. Part of a BNF's "responsibilities" is to foster the fandom in which they reside, and interviews with fans are part of it. In any case, I went though each page of Crusader and while I found a flyer, a date, and a profile we can use, sadly no interviews with people who were not pro. --Mrs. Potato Head (talk) 00:18, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

Well, Susan is respected for all the other things she did for the fandom—starting awards, stimulating challenges, running polls, writing fan fiction, publishing fanzines, helping at cons, and so on. It was she who, concerned to preserve our history, started wiki-ing about it (and got me involved, come to that). No one person can do everything, after all. --Greer Watson (talk) 01:30, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

You mentioned finding a profile. That addition you just made to Nancy Taylor's page? You know that sort of thing we do have—people giving brief "how I got into fandom/FK" type comments, sometimes on their journals but also on FORKNI-L. How one might go about finding them is another matter. The list is archived, at least since 2000; but it's indexed by date, not subject. --Greer Watson (talk) 01:38, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

Those profiles would be super to add. I know that the Cascade Library has some profiles for TS fans at the interview page. At some point, someone could go through and add them to fan pages as needed. Linking all these fan interviews up to fan pages is a future project. --Mrs. Potato Head (talk) 01:53, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

It occurs to me that one reason we have few interviews in FK fandom is that that formal interviews would pretty well be limited to the fanzine era, and FK moved on line fairly quickly. (I just heard back about the interview with Susan, by the way; it was in a fanzine. The person in question is going to see if she can look it out.) If you think about the logistics of mailing lists, they don't lend themselves readily to interviews per se. It's more that someone asks a question or opens a topic, and then several people reminisce in response. --Greer Watson (talk) 03:04, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

Is the Garrett interview she's looking for different than this one? Pop Stand Express Interview with Susan M. Garrett. Hopefully yes, as it may have a FK focus. --Mrs. Potato Head (talk) 12:56, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

You have a date of 1986 on that one, so this has to be different. FK didn't start airing until 1992. --Greer Watson (talk) 14:38, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

It turns out that Gwenn Musicante's Forever Knight: A Reference Guide has interviews with the authors of the tie-in novels. One of them is Susan Garrett. The others are Susan Sizemore, and Laura Fargas and Jayel Wylie (who wrote as Anne Hathaway-Nayne). While the main focus is on their writing the tie-ins, there is some more general discussion. I don't know if any of the latter were part of "fandom", i.e. on the mailing list; but all self-identify as fans, if only of the wildly enthusiastic variety. If you don't have access to a copy of the book, I guess I'll have to do the article(s) myself. Do you want just Susan, or all four?

As for the radio interview with Deborah Hymon, this happened because she's a romance writer, but she definitely discusses fan fiction in general, and Forever Knight in particular, as well as being a fan writer. The interview took place on http://www.jewelsway.com on January 19, 2005. Fortunately, the whole thing was recorded and uploaded by Steph: I just found that she put it on her website, so it's in our archive (with permission). It's about two hours long, so Steph broke it into five parts. There's no transcript, I'm afraid: you'll just have to listen to it, and transcribe anything you want to quote. You can find it here: http://www.foreverknight.org/deborah_hymon.html --Greer Watson (talk) 01:38, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

I don't have a copy of the book. I think that if interviews (all 4) talk about Forever Knight fandom and if they self-identify as fans, then the interviews would be good to have. You could do them yourself, or could scan the pages and send them to me.

As per the radio interview, what I've done with a couple of prior video interviews is make a page and provide the link. I haven't watched them myself yet. Ideally, it would be good to listen/watch them and get some excerpts, but to make note of their existence is about my speed right now. There are a handful of Pros letterzine interviews for which I also only made a very rudimentary page due to privacy concerns -- I don't feel comfortable quoting but instead will summarize. Those I've left for later, too.

I'll go ahead and make a page for the Deborah Hymon interview. --Mrs. Potato Head (talk) 12:05, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

Kenaz?

Kenaz redirects to kenazfiction. Kenaz is a Harry Potter fan. Do you know if she is the same person as the Mary Renault fan? --Mrs. Potato Head (talk) 21:37, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

I suspect the redirect should probably go the other way. If you look at http://kenazfiction.livejournal.com/ , it looks as though the name of her LJ actually stands for "Kenaz's Fiction", run together as one word. Harry Potter is one of the tags, along with Renault (and others). --Greer Watson (talk) 03:29, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

Wars

Greer, do you know more about the history of the type of activity/fanworks that are "the wars"? Was it something that started with other fandoms, media or otherwise? I just finished up with Command Center, and they had what sounds like a more informal, but but very similar activity that started as "Alphan Biographies" in about 1980/1981 and became a separate thing that lasted over a number of years in the newsletter (Command Center). They even called it "the wars" at one point. I think it would be really interesting to have a section on the Forever Knight Wars page regarding the history of "wars" or perhaps a separate page about these type of "wars." --MPH (talk) 15:52, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

It is a truism in FK fandom that our wars are unique. ;)   However, people who've been told about them do occasionally say that some fandom of their has something similar.

They started spontaneously on list in January 1994 as a result of growing factionalism between fans of the various characters, esp. fans of Nick vs. fans of LaCroix. The story is oft told to the point where, like most legends, it comes with variants.

Although it's been written up here on Fanlore, the fullest exposition (still lacking so much!) is on the FK Wiki. I'll point you to a few articles, and you can click links from there. First look at FK Wars. Then go to Factions. These are both essential reading. If you want a sample, there is one (and only one) war that has been written up in excruciating detail, and that is War Fourteen. However, that is largely because it was the worst of the wars, with an utterly incompetent War Mistress; and it was something of a post-war catharsis for me. I got partway through doing something similar for War Fifteen (the latest), but got sidetracked by other shiny pretties.

"Alphan Biographies" suggests a possible parallel with the way the ITOWverse started. You might want to check that out as well. I can send you more on that, if it looks relevant, since I did a conference paper a few years back. (Have to be e-mailed, though.) --Greer Watson (talk) 21:56, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

Queen

I want to compliment you on the Queen (Dragonriders of Pern story) page. I'm in awe! You did a really good job of bringing in a variety of comments and viewpoints in a very readable and entertaining way. Very nicely done. --MPH (talk) 12:24, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

Thanks! I guess laying out this sort of detailed analysis comes from my academic background. It's a complicated issue, isn't it? On the one hand, you have the response to the story itself; and, on the other hand, the response to the circumstances of the story.

I'm close to running into a problem, though. Not in the next section, which will deal with the belatedly-appended Author's Note. That is no bigger deal than the things I've discussed up till now. However, I then hit the big wankiness, which runs into pages of comments on both FFA and Yuletide Coal.

Although I could try to write it up, I have a strong feeling that I ought to recuse myself—on the principle that justice must not only be done but be seen to be done. In other words, although I was barely tangentially involved myself, my sister was dead centre. And, when all is said and done, she is my sister. (Also, the FFA/Coal people mostly ascribe everything to "the Watson sisters", even though all I really did was rec the story to her. And then tell her never to respond to anonymous comments, to which she said something along the lines of, "But I have to set the record straight.")

The trouble is that, though I think I can maintain an academically analytic frame of mind, especially after so many years (!), I probably ought to hand over at that point to someone else. However, I don't think anyone else is prepared to slog through the posts, which go on and on and ... on.

In a way, I wish I never started the article. However, I had originally thought that the only issue was the comment war on the story itself, i.e. on AO3, which had been deleted by the Yuletide admins. It was still in a window on Flo's computer; so, at her request, I copy-pasted it into a Word doc for her, meaning there still existed a record of what was actually said. (Note: it's only slightly longer than the chain of comments on the screencap in the FFA wiki. The existence of that record means that anyone could have written the article. *sigh* Only no one had.)

After starting the article, it occurred to me to google FFA (of which first I heard about 18 months ago) to see if there had been anything about it there. At which point I got an eyeful!

Putting me in a dilemma, as you can imagine. Still, there's at least a little more that I can do with a clear conscience. After which I'll have to see.

Perhaps, when I get that far, you (or someone else in the Gardener line) would consider double-checking and editing what I write? I would certainly feel more comfortable that justice would be done to all if there's someone looking over my shoulder. --Greer Watson (talk) 18:41, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

Perhaps with the parts you're feeling unsure about, you can set up some headers and very brief statements about the topics, then include links to discussions under each one. It's a way of including the differing viewpoints and comments without having to get too involved in transcribing and choosing them. I know when I get into something over my head, something that feels overwhelming for whatever reason, it helps to include points in an outline. It does at several things: it helps sort out my feelings, it suggests a path for someone down the line to follow if needed, and the links preserve the discussion for either me (for a time when I'm feeling more psychologically capable) or if not, for others to use in reconstructing the events. This also takes some of the pressure off of myself, because even if I know I can't do justice to the article, I am providing some hints and info for others to pursue it.

I'll also try to follow along later and check things. Good plan? --MPH (talk) 20:28, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

That may work. I'll see how it goes when the time comes. Certainly, there are bound to be times when I get hot under the collar reading the wank; so anything that keeps me at a reasonable distance is a definite plus.

(I've already been preserving a long list of links on the Talk page for the story, since there are far too many to keep track of otherwise.) --Greer Watson (talk) 20:38, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

Catching Cat

Do you know if there is Forever Knight or Nick Knight element to this original fic: Catching Cat? --MPH (talk) 13:12, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

Not that I know of. The description doesn't make it sound likely, though I suppose there may be a minor crossover or "inspired by" element to it. It's not something we have in the main archive, that's certain (though the early FK zine writers were often not on list). --Greer Watson (talk) 21:32, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

Fan Run Edit

Hi Greer Watson,

This message is to let you know that we reverted your recent edit on Fan Run as it removed large sections of the page content. As per Fanlore's Hostile Editing Policy, deleting large sections of existing pages is considered hostile editing.

We're unsure if this was intentional, but please be aware that any further edits of this type could result in a temporary suspension of your Fanlore account. If you have suggested redrafts for large sections of any page, it can be helpful to raise them on the article's Talk page, where other editors can offer their suggestions as well.

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Regards,

enchantedsleeper (talk)

Fanlore Committee

No idea how that happened. Gremlins, I suppose. I was trying to clean up some SPaG, which shouldn't have deleted more than the odd word or two. --Greer Watson (talk) 22:35, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

That "disappearing text" thing has happened to me before, too, Greer. It was very mysterious! --MPH (talk) 23:43, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

PrincessDove

Hello, I'm PrincessDove. I'm here for anti-vandalism work. PrincessDove (talk) 09:31, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

Advanced Editor Invitation

Hi Greer Watson,

Thanks so much for all the contributions you've been making to the wiki. As you've been an active editor on Fanlore for some time and made considerable contributions to the wiki (your work on Yahoo! Groups pages in particular has been amazing!), we wanted to extend the invitation for you to become an Advanced Editor on Fanlore.

Fanlore Advanced Editors have special editing rights on the wiki, most importantly the ability to move and delete pages. You can learn more about Advanced Editors and what is involved in being one via our dedicated page on Fanlore.

If you would like to become an Advanced Editor, please let us know by replying to this message or by contacting us through the Fanlore committee contact form.

If you are interested in getting even more involved with Fanlore, you can also apply to become a Gardener. Gardeners are responsible for monitoring the wiki and keeping it free from spam, and answering occasional user queries. They are official Fanlore volunteers. You can learn more about the role and its permissions on this page.

enchantedsleeper (talk)
Fanlore Staff

Yes, indeed I am interested. The ability of Advanced Editors to move pages would have been particularly useful during my work on the Yahoo! Groups when I made a spelling mistake in the title of a page. --Greer Watson (talk) 04:42, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

That's great to hear! I've authorised your new status and you now have full Advanced Editor rights. There is a two-week trial period for all new Advanced Editors; you will need to complete both parts of the Move and Delete Page tutorial before 16th February to keep your new status. Otherwise, we'll automatically revert the change in status and you will be switched back to normal editor rights.

Would you mind also dropping us a line on our contact form so that we have a contact email for you? This is just used to send out our annual rights confirmation survey to make sure that all Advanced Editors wish to keep their rights.

Thank you, and let me know if you have any questions! --enchantedsleeper (talk) 17:42, 02 February 2020 (UTC)

2021 IFD

Hi, Greer Watson! Here's your badge for completing the first day of the 2021 IFD Fanlore Challenge. Keep going to earn them all!

Hi, Greer Watson! Thanks for adding the internal links! Here's your badge for completing Day 2 of the 2021 IFD Fanlore Challenge. Keep going to earn them all! Roamingcataloger (talk) 08:33, 16 February 2021 (UTC)

Hi, Greer Watson! Thanks for editing a glossary page! Here's your badge for completing day 3 of the 2021 IFD Fanlore Challenge. Keep going to earn them all! Fairestcat (talk) 06:44, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

Hi, Greer Watson! Thanks for adding fanwork examples to a character page. Here's your badge for completing Day 4 of the 2021 IFD Fanlore Challenge. Keep going to earn them all! --Emma M (talk) 18:10, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

Hi there! Thanks for adding to a fanzine page--you've earned a badge for day 5 of the IFD Challenge! --effietheant (talk) 13:17, 20 February 2021 (UTC)

Hi, Greer Watson! Thank you for adding onto a stub! Here's your badge for completing Day 6 of the 2021 IFD Fanlore Challenge. You’re close to the finish line. Keep going to earn them all! Mika Marguerite (talk) 13:39, 20 February 2021 (UTC)

Hallo Greer Watson! Congratulations - by creating a new page for a fanwork, you've earned your badge for Day 7 of the IFD 2021 Fanlore Challenge! Aruna (talk) 19:16, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

And for participating on all seven days you'll get an additional shiny badge for completing the IFD 2021 challenge! We hope you've had fun editing & thank you for all your great work! Aruna (talk) 19:16, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

Ger Bear page

Greer Watson, I was hoping to add some fan comments and other info to the Ger Bear page, as it's been nominated for a Featured Article. Can you point me in some good directions? --MPH (talk) 12:06, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

I wish I could. Alas, the FORKNI-L posts for 1997 are not archived. However, I have asked on list if anyone has reminiscences. I've added a bit about fanfic involving the bear that Brenda kept, Nicolas de Bearbant. --Greer Watson (talk) 05:43, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

I've now updated the page with a bit more information direct from Brenda. --Greer Watson (talk) 21:32, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for contacting Brenda and adding the info, Greer Watson. --MPH (talk) 00:33, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

I've just added links to a couple of pictures of the actor and teddy at the fanclub meeting in 1997. I think that's about it, though. Nothing in the comments line, I'm afraid. I dare say there were at the time; but, as I said above, we don't have the mailing list archived for that year. --Greer Watson (talk) 15:52, 2 May 2021 (UTC)

Fanlore Bingo Cards 2021

BEGINNER EDITOR BINGO
Add missing information to an infobox on any page [ done! ]	Add an internal link [ done! ]	Add to your user page [ done! ]
Add a new section to a page [ done! ]	Add an extra line to a stub page [ done! ]	Leave your thoughts on a Talk page and sign your comment with ~~~~ [ done! ]
Add alt text to any image [ done! ]	Add to a bullet point list [ done! ]	Add an external link [ done! ]

EXPERT EDITOR BINGO
Create a redirect to a page from an alternate name, spelling or capitalization [ done! ]	Add an link to an orphaned page [ done! ]	Vote on a Featured Article nomination [ done! ]
Say hello on a user's talk page [ done! ]	Add a category to a page or image [ done! ]	Add a reference to a page that is missing citations [ done! ]
Add an image gallery [ done! ]	Add a quotation to a page and reference it [ done! ]	Add content to a section marked 'needs expansion' [ done! ]

Congratulations for completing all of the tasks for the 2010 Fanlore Bingo! Here are your badges for the Beginner Bingo, Beginner Blackout, Expert Bingo, Expert Blackout, and Total Blackout! Fairestcat (talk) 05:35, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

Question about a zine

Greer Watson, I added comments about the zine Forever Net recently. They are attached to the second issue. Do you know which story the review is for, the one that says "The most interesting example along these lines is a long story set about thirty years in the future"? I know for sure it was issue #1 or #2 due to the date, and nothing in the first issue review matched well, so I added it to the second issue. I was hoping you could pinpoint it. --MPH (talk) 17:46, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

A little wiki work, and our dear old fic archive! The story in question is "Heart Within the Beast" by Lisa McDavid. According to the author's note, it is set in the same world as Karin Welss's "Heart of Darkness", which appears in the same issue. ("Sharibet, Roland d'Agincourt and Kim, who will figure in later parts of this story, appear by permission of their creator, Marian Huntsman. / The LaCroix of this story is the Menelaos created by Karin Welss in "Heart of Darkness." / Thank you, Marian and Karin, for permission to use your characters, and for extensive consultations on this story.")

There was clearly some shared fanon going on about LaCroix's history. I note that the date of the zine is before TPTB did their own origin story for him (in the episode "A More Permanent Hell"), after which fans delved deep into the new canon.

Please note the spelling of Karin's surname (WeLss), which I think must have been misspelled in the zine, since the FK Wiki article on Forever Net #2 misspells it the same way.

Always glad to help! -- Greer Watson (talk) 20:08, 7 June 2022 (UTC)