Once Upon a Time... Is Now/Issues 029-030
| Zine | |
|---|---|
| Title: | Once Upon a Time... Is Now (Out-In, Out/In, Out...In) |
| Publisher: | |
| Editor(s): | Jeanne Cloud and Joyce DeBoard (issues #1-#27), Jeanne Cloud, Loreen Vanderkrats, and Linda Lakin (issues #27-#33 -- tho perhaps as far as #45), Jeanne Cloud and Loreen Vanderkrats (issues #46-#60 -- tho perhaps as early as #34) |
| Type: | letterzine |
| Date(s): | 1988 to 1996 |
| Frequency: | sometimes monthly, sometimes bi-monthly, at the end much more infrequent |
| Medium: | |
| Size: | digest-sized |
| Fandom: | Beauty and the Beast (TV) |
| Language: | English |
| External Links: | |
| Click here for related articles on Fanlore. | |
Once Upon a Time... Is Now (Out-In, Out/In, Out...In) is a Beauty and the Beast letterzine. It is digest-sized.
See List of Letterzines for similar fanworks.
Contents
The zine is a collection of letters from fans (titled "From the Helpers") of the show discussing aspects of the show including the actors, characters, stories, and fanfiction. This zine also contains photos (both xeroxed and original), some original artwork, con reports, open letters, and sometimes clippings and interviews.
Some regular features were: "OK Good...OK Fine" (the editorial), "From the Library" (zine listings), and "On the Pipes" (fan clubs).
There were 60 issues published between 1988 to 1996.
Issue 29
Once Upon a Time... Is Now 29 was published in January/February 1990 and contains 32 pages.
This issue contains a personal letter to fans from Roy Dotrice.
This issue has a short bio of fan, Celiarose.
This issue has the second part of a description of the November 25, 1990 Creation Con and Ron Perlman's appearance. The first part of the transcript of his remarks is in issue #28. Includes photos:
Beth Blighton then stood and told Ron that she had something for him that she was pretty sure the Make a Wish Foundation would not want. She then presented him with a framed print of her latest full-color portrait of Vincent entitled "The Fire and the Rose", the one with the loincloth, sword and crystal. Ron looked at it and commented "Talk about a flight of fancy!" Everyone was shouting, "Show it!" He replied, "I'm gonna show it, I'm gonna show it. Settle down!" He looked at it again, then asked, "Are we sure we're ready?" "Yes!" from the crowd. He looked at it one more time, then turned it around, and the audience went wild! "I'll put that in a safe place! I'm going to put that right over my refrigerator." (Looks at it again.) "MMMMmmmmm! Well, it was a fantasy series."[...]
Question asking did he feel there was any vindictiveness in the killing of Catherine in "TLBL".
"Vindictiveness? From, you mean the public?"
From Ron Koslow.
"Oh, no. Not at all. No, I thought that if you had to kill her off, there was not ever going to be a gentle way to do that. You know, it was not bloody, it was more violent mentally and emotionally than it was physically. There's no easy way to kill off a character that is that integral to something like that easily. And I thought that, in reading the script, when I first read it, I thought that was -- given that nobody wanted to see that happen in the first place, that if you gotta go, that was not... hey, you know, that's what makes horse races."
Question about consummation scene.
"The consummation scene? Which occurred off-screen, much to my dismay. (Ron smiles.) Here I am, working for three and a half years, and some messenger talks about how good I was. So when do we get to see it onscreen?" (Laughter)
Issue 29: Excerpts from the Letters
I attended TunnelCon and came back home with the firm belief that Fandom Would Survive. Being basically an unknown face in fandom, I'm usually content to sit back and do my writing, keeping in contact with mostly my editors and the occasional brave pen pal. And so it was with great anticipation that I sent in my money to attend SOUTH OF OZ in June of 1991.
....I used to hear about Star Trek fans and wonder how they could get so involved with a cancelled TV series. Well, I understand now.
I never thought I could be affected like this. I think we'll all be here 50 years from now, still trying to figure it out. I've made friends through B&B that I'll keep all my life. There are so many talented artists and writers in B&B. Thank you for sharing your talent with us.
[Editor's Preface to this letter via the editorial]: On another note -- we are printing a letter that I think may generate a lot of response from all of you. I know it caused an immediate reaction in me. It centers around the issue of censorship and whether the zine BLACK COVER should be advertised. Quite frankly, I hesitated to print the letter; not because of the viewpoint, but because I know the fan who wrote the zine. She is really a very nice person and I feel she has been bludgeoned quite enough from our fandom. A scathing review was published in a couple of the other newsletters and I felt it was a little exaggerated. Yes, I too had some trouble with this zine as I have openly discussed with the author, but I do not think it was bad enough to cause the vindictive sniping that this poor woman has been subjected to. BLACK COVER is no longer being offered for sale although some of her ads continue to run because the information has not yet made the rounds. I am hoping the author will forgive my opening up this debate in OUT...IN because I think this is a fascinating and timely subject to discuss. The question seems to be should anything be censored and by who's criteria. Who judges what is art and what is obscenity? Should guidelines be set up or, as Kathy Cox once said, should we vote with our checkbooks? What are YOUR views?
- [Letter by Lynn H]: I would like to make a rather passionate plea to the editors of [Tunneltalk] and all other letterzines and fanzine reviews. There exists a zine that should not be included, and I think even Beth Blighton would not label its exclusion as "censorship." I hope this letter is foredoomed to automatic reject, flowing so closely behind Beth's eloquent speech for freedom of express, and certainly intents no offense against her. This fanzine is Black Cover, appropriately named and undignified by an author's name or address. I freely admit, I've only read a review of it, by another person who managed to force herself through it and immediately issued a warning to other fans. I'm grateful to her, but I think it should be taken one step further.
- This zine apparently belongs to the "S&M" genre, as its focus on sex and violence, and B&TB is simply being used as an interesting new arena of expansion. I have no idea how popular it is, but I can be pretty confident that it would be of interest to only a tiny fraction of B&TB fandom. Most of us have more respect for the show than to want to see it treated in such a manner. To me, it is jarringly discordant to see BC listed with such sincere, loving efforts as Kaleidoscope, Destiny, and my own Bondstories. Not only does this listing give BC the same free advertising as all the rest, it gives this kind of "literature" the same implicit acceptance. Yes, I know about the disclaimers and the "write for flyers first" cautions: I just don't believe it belongs there in the first place.
- "How does a simple "Thank you, but we're not going to carry this ad," constitute censorship? To me, that says we don't think our listing is the appropriate place for this ad—well within an editor's prerogative. How much courage does it take to make a stand for decency and common sense? I'm sure the ACLU won't descend on us, and I bet the BC authors won't make a fuss either—they'd have to reveal themselves. If we don't take a stand now, what happens when this zine spawns sequels? Let me guess: Vincent has "ulterior motives" for bringing lost, helpless children to the tunnels, or—there's more to Father and Vincent's relationship than we would have dreamed. Will that finally do it? Or not even then?
- Would the silent majority of fans really object to the exclusion of this ONE ad? Remember—even gallery owners unashamedly segregate some artwork from the main showing, depending on its controversial nature. It's there, but not automatically included in the main tour. Would it be a crime to expect S & M devotees to look for their literature elsewhere? How do other editors feel about being associated with this kind of writing? I apologize ahead of time if this starts some kind of disproportionate debate over censorship: to me the issue is very simple, and could have been avoided completely with a polite letter of rejection. Perhaps I'm more sensitive to the subject since Bl- is so close to Bo- alphabetically, and every time I see my ad, I see this other one. But it is just as valid an issue as any other in fandom. Thanks for your consideration. [1]
I don't have cable...my landlord will not allow it. What can I do? On Friday nights...I am lost, alone, forlorn. I am covetous of you all, jealous, resentful. Don't get me wrong, my love for all of you is something strong, tangible. But I miss OUR show. I miss the special feeling it gave me... I miss Vincent. I miss possibilities and I miss the closeness I felt in all of us when I first found this fandom.
As a B&B fan, I looked forward to reading the three commercially published pocket sized novels. The first,Beauty and the Beast, by Barbara Hambly was not disappointing. It gave a wonderful, detailed account of the meeting of our Vincent and Catherine and included an incident which took place Below during their eight month separation. Even though the focus was on a story already familiar, the novel gave many sensitive insights into the developing relationship of Vincent and Catherine. The second book, Masques, by Ru Emerson, and Song of Orpheus by Barbara Hambly were oh so disappointing to me because, though well-written,they were stories I already knew and loved. I knew the dialogue already and found myself skimming along hoping to come upon something new and exciting! The last story in Song of Orpheus, (Shades of Grey...the cave-in) came closest to the new discoveries of the first novel. It did involve itself more with the relationship of the main characters and introduced the tunnel dwellers most touchingly. I certainly don't mean to sound or be negative towards these Avon Books; hopefully, they will introduce other people to the warm, lyrical fantasy. Perhaps, I've just become hard to please, having read so many outstanding fan written/published stories. Oh! If only some of these stories (I could name a dozen superb fanzines) could be commercially published. Looks like our best resource for continuing stories of Beauty and the Beast is...us!
All you wonderful authors, please continue to dream and write. The artwork, poetry and stories are all we have to keep the Dream alive... and, believe me, it lives!
Dealing with Catherine's death and the acceptance of Diana seem to be the big issues out there. It isn't really the "either/or","black/white"situation that everyone is making it out to be. There is room in fandom, and in our fiction, for every possibility; and we will fill every possible second of Vincent and Catherine's (episode) time together three or thirty three times over, as well as projecting different futures for them down the line. The same will happen with Diana; some will write adventures and tales for her and those who like to read both will ignore the seeming overlap in time. There is plenty of room for both kinds of stories, for both visions. I am sure that many of us these same people can't write "classic" B&B and even "No, she isn't dead" stories.
And the tale of "Beauty and the Beast" doesn't end with Vincent and Catherine or Diana. The Tunnel civilization and inhabitants have a life of their own as well. 'There are a million stories in the underground city', to paraphrase an old TV show. Vincent is the key to that world's survival, but there are others to write about as well. The entire universe is what fascinates. Those who do not wish to accept Season 3 are not required to do so. I am sure that there will be enough for everyone to read for several lifetimes, whatever their opinions.
I attended TunnelCon and came back home with the firm belief that Fandom Would Survive. Being basically an unknown face in fandom, I'm usually content to sit back and do my writing, keeping in contact with mostly my editors and the occasional brave pen pal. And so it was with great anticipation that I sent in my money to attend SOUTH OF OZ in June of 1991.
Now, I have been bombarded with the most ridiculous news, to which I called several of my friends (including those directly working with the con) to either confirm or deny these rumors — those rumors that say SOUTH OF OZ is going to be a Third Season Con.
Completely Untrue.
SOUTH OF OZ will be pretty much the same as TunnelCon. TunnelCon had 3rd season material present, but that did not make it a 3rd season con. Third season material was not as prevalent then as it is now because the season was still unexplored (and painful) territory. Yet, since then, nearly every editor has written or included a 3rd season story in a 'zine, even if its plot was "she's not dead/Catherine comes back". (Personally I get a kick out of some writers telling me: "I don't write 3rd season and I never will. But if they've written an "SND", or any story that dealt with Catherine not being killed or being saved in the nick of time, then they've used the 3rd season premise. What they probably intended to say was: "I don't write Vincent/Diana stories.")
All I do know for certain is that this con is going to be another way for fans to show their love and support for this wonderful show which Promotes Kindness, Generosity and Tolerance. It'll give us a chance to collect autographs from actors who've never before attended a con, and allow us a chance to renew those friendships and acquaintances that were born out of TunnelCon. (Remember how good you felt afterwards?)
I used to hear about Star Trek fans and wonder how they could get so involved with a cancelled TV series. Well, I understand now. I never thought I could be affected like this. I think we'll all be here 50 years from now, still trying to figure it out.
I don't know if I am allowed to give anything a plug in this magazine but if I am, I would say buy [Above and Below... A Guide to Beauty and the Beast], it is brilliant. But the most frustrating thing about it was the constant references to scenes that were chopped out or footage that was deleted because of time over-runs on the program. Apparently there were 20 minutes of "Orphans”, my personal favorite episode, that ended up on the cutting room floor.
Also, the reference to the end of "A Happy Life" where Vincent and Catherine were filmed kissing a lot differently than the final product. And, of course, the best part that we missed is the consummation scene from "Though Lovers Be Lost...” that is lost somewhere in that heap of film that litters the floor.
Surely now that the program has been cancelled and CBS seems to be wallowing in the doldrums, they would want to scare up a little money by putting out a video of the deleted footage. The scene that also springs to mind is the one, and I can’t remember where I read this reference, with Vincent and Catherine standing under a bridge in the rain in Central Park and he was reading her some poetry. This has vanished completely.
This would not be a bloopers video, which the studio seems to be mortally scared of, but merely a way of letting the fans see what they missed. He who know the show inside out and backwards in a dark room with the sound turned down will know where to slot in all the pieces. It would be an incredible journey down memory lane. I read in "Above and Below...” that George Martin wanted to make "Orphans" a two-part episode, but it didn't come off. Twenty minutes of a program is a lot to lose, it represents hours of very hard work for nothing. Such is television, I suppose.
Issue 30
Once Upon a Time... Is Now 30 was published in March 1991 and contains 34 pages.
This issue contains An Exercise in Futility (Or Lessons in How to Beat a Dead Horse): Black Cover, an open letter written in response to the zine Black Cover. This letter was also reprinted in the March 1991 issue of Tunnel Talk.
This issue has the third part of a description of the November 25, 1990 Creation Con and Ron Perlman's appearance. The first and second parts of the transcript of his remarks were in issue #28 #29. Includes photos.
This issue has a short bio of fan, Patricia Almedina. This issue contains a description of a Winterfest held in Maryland. See that page.
Two letters addressing the debate over Black Cover are excerpted below. See that zine's page for more.
Issue 30: Excerpts from the Letters
I am a fairly new subscriber to OUT...IN and this is my first letter of comment. It was prompted by [Leslie H's] letter about the "Black Cover" zine. I certainly understand why anyone would dislike this zine, but I don't feel we have the right to censor it by refusing to advertise it. As with other mediums where the questions of censorship have arisen, I believe the answer is correct labeling. Definitely this zine should be rated XXX. I'm a firm believer that if you don't want to see it or read it, don't watch it or buy it.
How to Destroy Fandom in Ten Easy Steps
STEP #1 - Find some issue that you can complain about with such intensity that no one else's opinion matters but your own.
STEP #2 - Gather other like minded people around you so that you can cause more damage together than you could alone.
STEP #3 - Be the author or instigator of hateful, accusing and demanding letters of comment and criticism to be sent to all those who oppose you.
STEP #4 - When contacted by phone for information as to your point of view, be as obnoxious as you can. Make all your demands known and by all means hurt and offend the person calling. Then proclaim you did nothing wrong.
STEP #5 - Applaud each other's efforts at continuing the maliciousness. Pump each other's egos constantly. By doing so, you can keep the momentum of hatred rolling.
STEP #6 - Blacklist all individuals of the opposing camp. Do all you can to degrade and discredit them. Use hateful criticism and even lies. Then say it's only the truth. Other NON-THINKING people will always believe you and in their deception help you to continue the tyranny.
STEP #7 - Make sure that everyone knows your name. True leadership must be publicized. This will make it easier for you to manipulate others.
STEP #8 - Find new and unusual ways to cause more trouble, after all it's so much fun!
STEP #9 - Align yourselves with other prominently hateful people in the fandom. You know CANCER is always more effective when it spreads!
STEP #10 - Now that you have successfully snowed everyone around you, (by now you should be believing your own lies), state that you are the answer to the problem, not it's cause, and then proclaim YOURSELVES to be the ELITE of fandom!
Please note: Don't forget to use an appropriate name for this group of yours. Hay I suggest the "B&B NAZIS" would be most descriptive.
Sad to say, the above 10 steps are not just a joke. These things are being done in this fandom. Let's hope those who are using these tactics will see themselves here and change their attitudes. He DO NOT need this kind of selfish, hateful behavior in this fandom.
He must move beyond this GARBAGE and get back to the love, tolerance and friendship that are the reasons we all came into this fandom.
Now IS the time for positive, loving change! Hay it be swift and sure!!![2]
I'm CERTAIN, at one convention or another, you've seen Kim Taylor's beautiful music video done to that Cher/Peter Cetera song from the movie "Chances Are". Why am I quoting the first stanza from the song? Because every time I hear it, I think of us fans. How long have we been around now? Going on five years this December for most of us, right?
When B&B was cancelled back in May of 1989, is there any doubt in anyone's mind that if not for OUR begging, OUR screaming, OUR threatening, OUR cajoling or OUR pleading we would've gotten our beloved show back? No way!! They would've simply swept us under the rug and went along their merry way. But we wouldn't let them. We buzzed around CBS Studio's head like a bunch of annoyingly persistent mosquitos and wouldn't allow them to let the show die. I'm DAMNED proud of that fact!!
Now, whether you loved third season, hated it or are on the fence concerning it is really not my point here... There's one thing we can all agree on; before December 12, 1989, HE, THE FANS, got this show back in production and on the air!!
I read as many zines as I can and some I don't particularly like. But, I can usually find something in each that I do like. Any dislike usually stems because I feel our favorite couple is out of character (or just plain dull stories). I believe that most people would dislike "Black Cover" because they would find Catherine and Vincent out of character. They would not like to see these characters, that we've come to know and love so well, sink to this level of existence. However, I did feel that if the stories had been written about anyone other than Catherine and Vincent, they would be plausible.
I also feel most of us are not qualified to decide what is obscene and what is not. He can only decide what we feel would be unacceptable to us arid avoid it. I will never forget a woman sitting near me at the Tunnel Con art auction loudly exclaiming that the artwork shown was "disgusting and obscene". I'm sure that most there would have disagreed with her.
What came as a surprise to me was Jeanne's comment that she knew the girl who wrote "Black Cover". I always felt that it was written by a man. It just seemed to favor a man's point of view when it comes to sex, at least in my opinion.
Not to open another can of worms but, I would like to put up a topic for discussion: do zine buyers in general like PG or R rated zines? Perhaps in a future issue you could ask for comments on this.
In answer to Janine Hills' question of if we would accept another Beauty and the Beast some years down the line, well I wouldn't rule anything out. I also feel that for most of us it was the special chemistry between Ron and Linda that made this show work so well. Pans of Linda don't want to see someone else in that role and I'm sure that fans of Ron could not accept anyone else in that role. It would probably appeal most to new fans as is happening with "Dark Shadows". I'm enjoying it but I've never seen the old show.
Thanks for letting me sound off.
I am writing in response to [Leslie H's] letter regarding a fanzine titled Black Cover. I can, I hope, see both sides of this issue. Certainly the author of Black Cover is entitled to write whatever she pleases whether the subject is "Beauty and the Beast" or something else. Since this 'zine is no longer in circulation, let's look at a hypothetical situation instead. Let's say Ms. X writes what could be considered an X-rated "B&B" story. No doubt she will attempt to advertise her story in one or more newsletters and letterzines. The editors of these publications then have the option to reject her ad. I don't consider this censorship, just good business sense. The author then can pursue a more direct route of advertising by mailing out flyers. If she's honest in her description of her story, and she should be, it's more than likely that only a handful of people whose tastes run to this type of material will buy it. If she glosses over the truth about her 'sine and a lot of people buy it and are disappointed/disgusted/horrified, the fandom grapevine will see to it that word gets out and this author's reputation soon will be toast.
On a more personal note, I have no desire to read a “B&B" story that deals with sadomasochism, bondage and degradation, incest, pedophilia or anything else along these lines (I'm taking my cues here from [Ms. H's] letter). A great many people today wrap themselves in the cozy protection of the First Amendment in order to defend their concept of art and further to excuse themselves from acting out of any sense of what I personally consider decency or social responsibility.
Here is where accurate information is our best and most reliable friend. The writer decides to write what she will; the editors must make their decisions in terms of advertising space and the marketplace they serve; the informed reader can then make her own decision as to how she is willing to spend her money. Let's face it: one woman's erotica may well be another's pornography and vice-versa.
That's a decision we each have to make for ourselves.
I wanted to deal with prejudism [sic] -- I had always felt that B&B glossed over that social evil too blithely. People screamed when they first saw Vincent, but nine times out of ten they were shown in the very next scene accepting him totally and completely. There are steps to acceptance, steps shown very well in the rocky relationship between Matt and Cathy on "Alien Nation." The first step is resisting the other person's actual existence. Then, when that is conquered, resisting the other person's proximity to you. (How many times have you heard "I'm not prejudiced against black people -- I just think they should stay where they belong.") Then there is the step of accepting the other person's right to exist in this space, but limiting your perceptions of their abilities. (A black friend of mine -- who speaks perfect classical English — once called for information on the Negro College fund and was told over the phone "I'm sorry, that's only for black people." Think about the state of our society when it is automatically assumed that all black people MUST have ghetto accents!) Finally, the last stage is accepting that these people are not only as free and equal as you, but may even want to be close to you personally. ("My daughter wants to marry WHO???!!")
This is getting to be a bit of a tirade, but you see my point -- B&B did not actually fully explore all the ramifications of prejudice, only the first and last stages. So I leaped Sam into Vincent to make him and Al go through it step by step. Plus, of course, deal with the problem that Sam leaped into a fix in the first place.
This has gotten to be a little more long-winded than I meant to get.
References
- ^ This same letter is reprinted in the March 1991 issue of Tunnel Talk.
- ^ from Once Upon a Time...Is Now #30