The corporatization of fanfic?

Meta
Title:	The corporatization of fanfic?
Creator:	yourlibrarian and commenters
Date(s):	May 10, 2007
Medium:	online
Fandom:	multifandom
Topic:
External Links:	The corporatization of fanfic?; archive link with comments expanded; Wayback link
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The corporatization of fanfic? is a 2007 post by yourlibrarian at Fanthropology.

It was made just after FanLib released their first press release.

FanLib's employee and fannish spokesperson, jdsampson, was a major commenter in this discussion. The post originally had ninety-nine comments. At some point jdsampson deleted all 21 of hers. Seven other comments are also missing. These comments can be seen in the archived links.

Some Topics Discussed

• fandom and profit
• will FanLib accept slash fiction and how will this affect perception of fanfiction
• will more people learn about fandom and is that a good thing
• legalities of fanfiction
• clueless businessmen entering fandom spaces, lack of respect and understanding
• Fanfiction.net
• evasiveness
• what makes this fanfic site "mainstream" as opposed to what's already out there
• many feminists and acafen are active on LiveJournal

Excerpts

yourlibrarian:

[From a] a press release for the launch of FanLib.com which discusses its corporate partners while Spiderman fanfic is featured on the home page.

While fan fiction has existed for decades, FanLib is launching a new era by packaging it for mainstream audiences

I find the use of the term "mainstream audiences" rather interesting since the term isn't explained but I would guess it refers to fanfic content. For example a quick glance at SPN fic doesn't reveal any tags indicating pairings or even "romance" even though easily half the content on LJ is Wincest or RPS. Similarly the BtVS fanfic listed does have romance as a term but nearly half the content is rated "All."

Thoughts? Are projects such as FanLib (or even fanfic.net which no longer permits NC-17 material) going to create 2 categories of fanfic -- corporate gen and back-blog explicit and dark fic -- even as genres such as slash inch their way into commercial publishing?

[]i paint the sky]]: I think there's as much a seperation in fan fic as there is between the movie industry and the porn industry. Yes, the NC-17 fic only has certain areas where it is allowed, but there is a lot of slash and what not that gets past on the R-rating that it really only keeps the most extreme stuff away.

[yourlibrarian]: Certainly fanfic archives can decide to focus on whatever they want, whether it's a pairing, certain types of fic, characters or content. What does perturb me somewhat is wondering what effects commercialization may have in prioritizing certain types of content. Assuming one believes commercialization will become a widespread thing, of course.

[i paint the sky]: I honestly don't think it will change a thing. People write what they want and there will always be places that will host it.

alias sqbr: I'm curious to know what effect it will have on the perception of fanfic in the wider community. Am I right in thinking all the appropriate IP holders have given permission? Becuase that makes a huge difference to all those arguments about fanfic being illegal and immoral, as well as the culture of flying under the radar.

Browsing through the site it did seem to be mostly PG 13 het or G rated gen, and the PG13 boundary will likely exclude a lot of slash since people seem to rate that higher than equivalent het (and a lot of it is pretty explicit anyway). That said, there does seem to be a reasonable amount of slash in the "Romance" category.

Of course, I like gen and PG13 romance, so my reaction to the site is likely to be a bit different than everyone elses :D

[yourlibrarian]: Am I right in thinking all the appropriate IP holders have given permission?

I'm completely unclear on that, myself, especially as the sponsors don't seem to be rights holders to most of the properties.

Of course, I like gen and PG13 romance

And some fandoms do create a lot of gen fic, but it does make me wonder if there becomes a market for that, would it become more the norm for most fandoms or would there simply be less gen in places like LJ?

morgandawn: Am I right in thinking all the appropriate IP holders have given permission

They have not. If you study their listed partnerships (ex Harper or Showtime) those permissions were in the context of a specific advertising campaign (ex. 'write the season finale of XXX or 'write an ep of YYYY'). In those cases blanket permissions for all fan fic is most likely not the case.

The reference to 'Star Trek' is also misleading - the site FanLib links to has nothing to do with the IP owner Paramount.

This is not to say that there are not broader license agreements in place, but I can say with some certainty that FanLib does not have the permissions from every IP owner of all the fan fiction they are actively soliciting to be posted there.

and given that their own terms of service require *you* the fan writer to defend *them* (the corporation) if they get sued, I'd proceed with caution.

because as Google and Youtube have shown, even with existing partnership agreements in place between corporations, IP owners love suing other corporations that are making money off their IP.

sushis: I tried to read the press release, but the corporate marketing-speak was a bit thick for my stomach. It's unclear *who* is going to be writing this stuff, and, if it is to be self-selected fans rather than paid writers, how it's going to be screened by the various companies involved. I really doubt this will catch on with many people who useLJ as a place to write and read fanfiction, because it seems to me that a large part of the appeal of fanfic in general (both for writers and for readers) is in teasing out subtext that the primary text is loathe to explore. The press release focuses on how this "partnership" (I think that's the over-used word that's used, but I may be recalling other exercises in corporate self-love, erm, I mean promotion) is such a wonderful thing, but, it's hard to see how it's wonderful for any of the fans of the sort who write fiction on LJ. I'm not just talking about the people who write NC-17 slash, but all those fanfic writers who use the universes created in the original texts as jumping-off points for stories that diverge in interesting ways from the original, published authors' stories. So, if these writers and readers won't be interested, it's hard to see what could be left other than pale imitations of the originals, vetted not just for sex and, perhaps, explicit violence, but also freed from any deviation from the corporate sponsors' ideas, ie, any of the originality that carries *good* fanfic beyond the derivative.

melodyclark: Perhaps the shows are hiring fan fic hacks to churn out banal fan fiction and thereby hype their shows.

aethel: They've been doing that for years with tie-in novels. The benefit of fanfiction is that they don't have to pay the author for it ... is what I'm thinking.

kazera: What I'd actually like to see is whether people who actually get into fandom via this stuff stay there or wind up gravitating to the usual fannish centres; i.e. whether it'll work more like a disassociated piece of fandom or an entry drug. I suspect the creators want the former, but fandom is rather uncontrollable and with enough traffic between corporate fandom (ugh, that sounds so awful) and homegrown... well.

And may I say that seeing fanfic supported by Big Company XXX makes me wonder whether I woke up in Bizarroland today.

(And I have to laugh at the article: "FanLib.com helps these readers find each other and gives them a space to share what they've created." I think we're doing that *just fine* on our own, thankyouverymuch)

jdsampson (FanLib employee and spokesperson]:

Can I just say how much I appreciate the fact that this thread discusses the ins and outs without name calling and nasty cracks. Thank you. I am a Fanlibber both as a fan and I work for them as well. I've been appalled by the hatred I've seen slung all over LJ in regard to this site. People can have their opinions but when they start knocking down those who like the site I get very angry.

So again, I appreciate the fact that this thread is sticking to the facts. And so I'd like to offer my answers to your questions if you want them. The one I've seen pop up most of late is about people being paid to write for the site. They're not. I work for the site as a moderator and I write the blurbs on the front page, that kind of thing. The fan fic is all user generated and all types are accepted. We do have slash but for whatever reason (the very nature of the site perhaps) we haven't had much PWP type slash uploaded. Most of what we have leans toward the romantic element.

I can honestly say at this point we have a great signal to noise ratio due to the fact that we invited great writers in at our beta stage and they've stayed on with us.

Now we're working on more readers and getting those reviews up - which have increased dramatically in the last month since we started featuring good reviewers as well as writers.

Keep up the discussion, please do check out the site and if you have questions, just ask.

[yourlibrarian]: I'm curious about the site. Though overall the point of my post was that I found it interesting to see 2 examples on the same day of fanfic used to promote commercial products, especially since fans themselves have often argued that fanfic benefits rights owners.

I hadn't thought the writers were getting paid since I couldn't imagine how that would work legally. How is it that you ended up joining/working on the site? How were the writers identified for invites? Who owns the rights to the fic that's posted? Is the intention of the site to be anarchive or one that promotes discussion and interaction?

[jdsampson]: I found it interesting to see 2 examples on the same day of fanfic used to promote commercial products

I'm not sure what you mean here unless you're referring to the Ghost Whisperer challenge. Yes, we're very excited that CBS was interesting in encouraging the fan fiction in regard to this show. Hope others will follow suit, soon. The Spider-man fics were simply because Spider-Man's hot right now, only makes sense to put what the people want on the front page.

I hadn't thought the writers were getting paid since I couldn't imagine how that would work legally.

I've seen references recently to people thinking the site is full of shills, paid to post to make it seem exciting, etc.

How is it that you ended up joining/working on the site?

I was hired about a half a year ago to work with Fanlib the company on the event they were running for Harper Collins Romance. Before the fan fic site (well, and still) Fanlib runs fan related writing events for Showtime's L-Word, Harper Collins Teens, Romance, we're working with MSN and Sprint on IntheMotherHood.com right now (one of our winners is being featured on The Ellen Show today) and coming up, Star Trek.

I hired on as a writer for the site and the newsletters for that event and they liked my work and kept me on for each event since then. When they put up Fanlib the fan fiction site, I jumped at the chance to work with that site as well since I've been a fanficcer since I could write.

Basically I handle the features on the front page. I write the blurbs, I help out in the forum, write newsletters and generally help keep the site oiled and moving forward. And I'm the unofficial LJ welcome wagon, it seems!

How were the writers identified for invites?

A couple of ways. We wanted to beta with the best of the best - people who really knew their fandoms so that they'd give the site a hard test. Believe me, we've corrected and tweaked many things since the first day based on their feedback. All of us at the company have different fannish interests so we each went after the kind of fic we liked. I love Supernatural and Stargate so I went to the people whose work I admired in those areas. We looked for good writers who had a body of work and we asked them to join us.

Who owns the rights to the fic that's posted?

The writer's of course. The same way Live Journal doesn't own any fic posted to LJs. Posting a story doesn't transfer ownership. The confusion lies in a clause in our terms that says we can use a derivative of the work (and this rule only applies as long as it's on site - if you remove it, the term no longer applies). This term allows us to excerpt works for our features on the front page or for an ad or say we decide to put out a newsletter with excerpts from our favorite stories.

I always thought fan fiction was about sharing with readers but many people have been objecting to what we see as new ways to get your fiction seen and read.

Is the intention of the site to be an archive or one that promotes discussion and interaction?

We hope the site will become more than just an archive. We have a forum going now but that's not the big draw - we're promoting a sense of community by making it easier for people to swap fiction, feedback, show their personality with pictures and color. I'd say moving more toward the social sites such as Myspace and further from the basic, static archive.

Whew - How'm I doing?

chicgeekchick: Hello, long time lurker, first time commenter here. I find that the idea for Fanlib, while... noble, I guess you could call it... feels kinda pointless because there's so many fic archives out there that got along just fine under the radar.

I'm also reminded of the old noob versus leet divide. You already commented that you guys are attempting to make fanfic 'mainstream', so I assume you're working on bringing a lot of newbies into the fanfic world. In the old days, it took a certain type of fan with a certain amount of determination to actually look for, write and read fanfic (I'm thinking of the 60s, 70s fan-made newsletters). Now, sharing fanfic got a whole lot easier with the internet and all during the 90s. When I started writing around 1996 or so, it was opening up a bit but you still needed to be a nerd's nerd to take it seriously and look for it.

But then, the way I see it, two very important things happened: fanfiction.net opened and Harry Potter hit the stores. Speaking as the member of the Gargoyles fandom, a small Internet country out of the way that had pretty good fanfic (all things considered), fanfic quality really started to go to hell around that time.

Maybe it’s the Gargoyles fandom degeneration coloring my view, but I feel like Harry Potter and fanfiction.net opened the doors to far less dedicated fandom writers of all shapes and sizes. HP has been a wasteland (in my opinion) since day one because sheer amount of inexperienced kids that discovered computers and hormones at the same time.

If Fanlib actually works and becomes successful, 'mainstream' as you call it, in theory it would bring about the next phase in popularization to the 'outside' world, and with it a bunch of new kids that don't know the 'fandom rules'. More worryingly, that they'll take their cues from corporate sponsors that willingly or unwittingly might impose their own view of their respective franchises and brands.

Anyway, the actual questions: how do you guys plan to deal with the oldskool and new school divide? You've already mentioned that you've encountered a lot of bitching in LJ land, and this service just opened. Do you see this like some sort of Web 2.0 for fanfic, sort of like how some networks have adopted YouTube to show off some of their clips, even though YT used to be a kinda underground thing?

More importantly, how do you plan to negotiate the fanfics seemingly anarchist spirit with the corporations’ concern for their brands? What are your criteria for determining what’s acceptable and what’s not? If this were a site for original stories, one could always argue that you can write whatever you want in the name of art. But is fanfic comparable to the common perception of art? I mean, if one of these days a corporate sponsor finally had it with X or Y thing in a fanfic, would you stand by the writer in the name of artist freedom; or just give in to the sponsors and delete or alter the offending material? (After all, the characters wouldn’t really belong to the fanfic author.)

I guess the uneasiness I pick up in the responses here simply boil down to one thing: Where does Fanlib’s loyalty ultimately lies? To the corporations or to the fanfic authors? I think this is the crux of the problem and explains the bitchiness you might’ve read in other LJ posts.

Personally, I would rather deal with anarchic Harry Potter wankiness, with all its glorious fanwars, than neat and ordered and perhaps a bit soul-less fandom world. Aaaand… I guess that’s it.

jdsampson Wow, I like the way you guys think. Interesting ideas all around. For me, I don't really see the divide between old skool and new. I've been ficing since . . yikes, 1974 so I've been the fanzine route, the fan conventions, MediaWest and finally on to the Internet. I love what the internet has done for fandom. I don't know about Harry Potter, but I know that I've never seen as much really well written fic as I have in the Supernatural fandom and many of those people are newbies, though not all.

Fanfic 2.0 - yeah maybe. I love the way the web has been changing the way we work and play and I think it's cool to see fanfic morph along with that. Look at blogs like this one - who knew it would be so easy to publish your thoughts and start a dialouge like this five years ago? I think change is good.

As for the sponsors vs. the writers - well, sure it's an balance. But I can tell you we think long and hard before removing anything from the site (not sure that we ever have, but I know people have asked). Honestly, I don't think TV producers, etc are as scared of fanfic as they once were. Look at how TV shows are linking to their audiences online with comics, and webisodes and game sites - they want to encourage fan interaction. You're always going to have the few license holders who get snooty about it and start handing out C&D's, but we had that anyway, so Fanlib doesn't change that.

Actually, Fanlib DOES change that in that it says to the studio - instead of pissing off the fans, why not reward them for keeping your show in the public eye and on the air.

I know that people get worth at any site on the Internet has a right to remove content it doesn't want. Live Journal can do it, your personal web hosts can do it. Art or not.

Anyone who sees fanfic as an US against THEM situation is bound to be annoyed by our site. Anyone who writes fan fic for fun and wants an easy way to house it and share it will like our site.

We're not trying to change the world, we're just doing what YouTube and LiveJournal, and Blogger and MySpace all did - turn modern technology into a cool website that people enjoy visiting.

kbusse: Since you're willing to answer questions here, may I ask you the one that's first and foremost on *my* mind: FanLib describes itself as a "venture-funded company," which to me suggests that someone somewhere is hoping to make some money. The problem I'm having at this moment is that this someone making money is clearly not the people whose contents is the actual value and draw of the site.

It's one thing to work for free in the gift economy of fandom proper; it's another to exploit that anti-capitalist ethos to make a profit. And I can't help feel that this is gendered all the way, given that not a single female (who do constitute the large majority of fan writers in media fandom at least) is on the board (but that may just be my current obsession with gender and fandom :).

Your point about LJ and social networking sites is well taken...except there seems to be a difference to me in the way fans have appropriated and shaped these sites to fit their purposes whereas FanLib's only interest seems to be to house fan-created texts. I haven't quite figured out yet how that seems different (b/c you certainly are correct that other sites do make money off us), but gut-level it doesn't seem the same (i.e., LJ would continue to thrive if no one posted any fanfic here any more; YouTube would continue even if all it did was share last Xmas's homevideos; FanLib *depends* on our creative output!)

jdsampson: First off, let me say that thanks to your comments and those of others, we've put together a FAQ that will answer most of the questions and it will be on site shortly.

I will say that I've been surprised by the gender issue being raised by a few people of late. My philosophy is, if I want something, I don't really care if it's a man or a woman who hands it to me. Yes, fandom is thought of as a woman's world, but computers and websites are thought of as men's worlds. Almost every web company I've worked for was started and run by men because they came from the programming end or the corporate world - which is again, mostly men. If, as in this case, men want to spend money they raised in order to make a playground for what will likely be mostly women - more power to them.

Now, since they're smart men (JD looks around to see who's watching), they hired a fannishly obsessed woman like me to help tidy up the place and kick them when they run off track. And when it comes to fannish enthusiasm, don't believe that men don't have it (ever go to a Star Trek convention!)

We have loads of anime and cartoon and superhero fandoms on FanLib and many of those writers are men. I think men particiapte in fandom, women are just louder about it.

YouTube would continue even if all it did was share last Xmas's homevideos; FanLib *depends* on our creative output!)

Ah, but that's a great comparison because Fanlib could live on if it was all original fic if that's what people wanted. All of these sites thrive because people want what they're offering. And would Youtube go on with only Xmas' vids - sure, would it be as popular? No. They're popular because you can find the latest fan vid or TV star interview etc.

Would FanFiction.net survive without Fans? Would TWOP? Television Without Pity just sold their incredibly popular fanboard to Bravo (NBC). I don't see anyone jumping ship because it's now a commercial enterprise run by men.

And how does TWOP make money? By publishing the postings of thousands of fans. Are posts any less creative than fanfiction? Shorter maybe but it's still someone else's work.

[kbusse]: FAQ: I'm glad you're putting together an FAQ. That may indeed answer quite a few of the questions.

Gender: I'm surprised you are surprised. In my end of fandom, it's a quite hotly debated topic (I am a slasher, so Joanna Russ's "Pornography By Women For Women" is still one of our urtexts, but just looking at last week's metafandom, for example, probably more than half the posts were on gender issues in fandom.

I kinda take offense to your gendering of computer skills, given that fandom is famous for making women competent a lot of times in exactly the skills you here ascribe to men, whether it's the archiving software many central archives use (written by one of "us"), the amazing skills displayed in vids, or just the everyday setup of tailoring our journals, creating RSS feeds, you name it.

Male Altruism: See, they are not spending money though to make a playground for us (which I'd be perfectly fine with even if it smacks a bit of condescension and given that quite a few of us has advanced or terminal degrees in various sciences, math, engineering, I don't think we need these nice men to build us a playground); they're spending money to make more money...off us!!!

And men are certainly fannish; quite often they tend to be so, however, slightly differently, the many men you have on your site notwithstanding.

FanLib and other fannish sites: As for your suggestion that FanLib could live with original fiction--surely notm since it has defined and sold itself as the best fanfiction archive! Nowhere does YouTube define itself as a fan site and while I don't have numbers, I'd guess the larger share of YouTube videos is not copyrighted!

FFnet afaik is not for profit; TWOP afaik pays its recappers. And I'm just as uneasy about this sell to Bravo as I am about FanLib. Since I'm interested in fanfiction rather than fannish source text debates, however, this is what I'm talking about with you here.

I think the gut level difference may in the end simply be the difference between an initially small basement enterprise like ffnet, LJ, TWOP, even youtube becoming big enough to turn a (good) profit versus a venture capital going in with the very goal of making money. The fact that they've hired you--however pleased I am for you, personally--does not negate the fact that from where I'm standing, you're helping them make money off other fans.

rez lo: I will say that I've been surprised by the gender issue being raised by a few people of late.

...makes me question whether the FanLib site owners/managers are actually interested in fostering the kind of fan communities we've built for ourselves over time. If they were, I believe they'd know that this is an issue we care about.

I'm curious about "the best of the best." I assume their fannish identities, at least, are or will be published?

[zillah975]: Anyone who sees fanfic as an US against THEM situation is bound to be annoyed by our site. Anyone who writes fan fic for fun and wants an easy way to house it and share it will like our site.

Heh. That's a bit of an oversimplification. And erm...kinda feels "us vs. them" to me. Reasonable people can disagree about fanlib.com without having an us against them mentality. People who don't like fanlib.com are probably still writing fanfic for fun.

kerravongenius: I write fanfic for fun and want (and have found elsewhere) easy ways to house it and share it and I think your site is taking advantage of young, inexperienced writers (most of them apparently kids) to make money for yourselves with them being the ones to get into trouble if somebody somewhere doesn't like ideas they rely on commercially being used for profit by someone else. I think Fanlib is run by people willing to manipulate others for personal gain. I don't say you are one of them, you may just be one of those being manipulated, but I believe a lot of those who get involved will end up regretting it and no-one with any experience or sense is going to sign up.

I am told you have no Blake's 7 stories as yet. I am proud to belong to the least gullible fandom in the world.

In fact, I don't know of anyone who writes fanfic for any other reason.

[alias sqbr]: I was wondering: does your site have any special agreements with licence holders to prevent allegations of copyright infringement? Or do you just publish everything with a general policy of trying to get publishers etc onside where possible?

Anyway, sorry to hear people were giving you crap, though I guess that's pretty much a given to anything high profile on the internet, what with people being people and all.

[jdsampson]: We do not have special agreements outside of the ones you'll see published on the site, for example, right now CBS is running a Ghost Whisperer fan fiction contest where they are actively asking for fic for their contest.

Other than that, we publish whatever and get the license holders to join in where we can.

[alias sqbr]: Doesn't that mean the companies are associating themselves with (and making money off) the violation of other companies copyright?

[jdsampson]: Um...no.

You're under the assumption that fan fiction violates copyright. We're under the assumption that fan fiction is a derivative work just like when Mad magazine does a parody and the courts have yet to say otherwise.

As for companies associating with a violator: A concrete example, the fact that NBC just placed videos from their new shows on YouTube - a site that is constantly being sued for copyright violations. Apparently NBC doesn't see it that way. They're using the fandom to spread the good word about their shows, which is exactly what fan fiction does.

It's a new world and there's just no precedent for these things. And I've yet to hear a case where fan fiction caused people to STOP watching a show or give less money to the license holder. We all know the opposite is true. Fan Fiction is good for business.

morgandawn: There is a lot of truth in what jdsampson says - I agree that fan fiction should be considered fair use. The issue of monetary gain being made off fan fiction is another aspect to the equation (but not the definitive factor). This is a complex and every changing area - I read dozens of cases and press releases every week where the copyright holders court fans on the one hand, and pursue them legally with the other.

what I would like to see in places like fanlib is this: focus only on pulling in fan fiction that you are currently authorized by the copyright holders. And as for the rest - put up better and bigger warning signs about the risks and the fact that if Mary Sue XX gets picked as the test case she will not have any additional protection by using your site (and under Fanlib's TOS perhaps even less).

In other words - better disclosure and a bit more care in how fanlib structures their to meet the IP issues head on.

[jdsampson]: Very interesting thoughts - certainly we love focusing on the fan fics based on our partner companies but at this point it's a small portion of the pie and we want to service everyone. (Though the list is growing and will continue to grow)

And as for the rest - put up better and bigger warning signs about the risks

To this, well, I can't imagine that there's a fan writer out there who hasn't heard the stories about getting a C&D - has anyone ever gotten worse? Surely no one has been monetarily fined or jailed for writing and posting fan fic. And if you were to get a C&D saying don't post to Fanlib, well, that's easy. Stop posting to Fanlib. I just don't see the big fear - it's very Orwellian sounding to me - big brother is watching.

Well, hey, big brother subscribes to Google news alerts and he knows every time a Harry Potter fic is put up on LJ, FanFic.net, or anywhere on the net. Once you post to the Internet, there's no place to hide - so why try?

[rillah975]: Maybe I've just missed where this has been answered definitively, but here's the thing I'm most interested in, and I've seen the questions asked a lot but no solid answers:

Fanlib.com is going to make money off of fanfiction.

By doing so, it's going to bring more attention to fanfiction from the copyright holders.

Fanlib.com is encouraging writers to post there in part by providing a false sense of security that somehow Fanlib.com has the go-ahead from "industry professionals" or some such.

However, the profit angle may very well give copyright holders perceived increased incentive to come after the writers.

If they do, Fanlib.com may be one of the ones they come after, but the authors almost definitely will be.

The Fanlib.com TOS seems clear that Fanlib.com will not assist any fan who faces legal action because of posting to Fanlib.com.

In effect, Fanlib.com is painting a big red target on the site and then saying "Come post your stories so we can make money, but if you get targeted by the copyright holder, that's not our problem. Even though we painted the target and convinced you to post here and are now making money from your fic."

Fanlib.com, in the answers I've seen, has tried to alleviate those concerns by saying A) It's not in the copyright holders' interests to alienate their fans, and B) It's just a C&D - all you have to do is stop posting your fiction.

But to me, those answers seem almost insultingly disingenuous. We all know it's not in the copyright holders' interests to alienate their fans but they persist in doing it. Batman, Harry Potter, Anne Rice, BtVS - many copyright holders of very popular works have worked very hard to shut down fanfiction. As far as the legal trouble goes, take the circumstance of the Firefly fans who, because they couldn't get licensed Firefly tee-shirts, started creating their own. Not only did Fox go to great lengths to shut them down and clearly didn't give a rat's behind about alienating their fans, at least one wound up in serious financial trouble because Fox wanted to recoup "financial losses" - non-existent once, since Fox hadn't been trying to sell Firefly schwag in the first place. It's not always "just a C&D".

And even if it is "just a C&D", what happens to me as a fan writer if I get one? Come home from work one day an oh! A letter from the CW threatening me with legal action if I don't stop posting Supernatural fic. Now what do I do? That C&D doesn't, as far as I know, mean "just stop posting it to Fanlib.com" - it means stop posting it.

That's a HUGE blow to me as a fan and a writer: either stop writing and posting my stories, or change my fandom identity and start over, and hope like hell that the CW doesn't find me again and find out that it's me again, violating their C&D.

I don't have the legal knowledge, the time, the resources, or the money to fight it, and I'm a 43 year old professional. What if it's some college student - one of the younger crowd your site is aimed at?

If Fanlib.com would offer some sort of assistance to writers who get slapped with C&Ds, I'd feel a lot better about it.

And I really wish Fanlib.com would at least acknowledge the big target they're painting and the seriousness to the average fan of getting a C&D.

likethemodel: If a person posts their fic on your site -- a site that's considerably more in your face about hosting fanfic and making money off of it than other archives -- will you be there to help the fanfic-writer if the holder of the copyright decides to sue? Your TOS says no, and I find that very slimy of your company.

[jdsampson]: First off - all TOS on similar sites are the same. FF.net, Youtube, they all have the same position.

But if you post to Fanlib where CBS is a partner - it's not likely that CBS will turn around and sue - is it. That's the point we're making. Instead of ducking the license holders, we're asking them to join us.

[likethemodel]: First off - all TOS on similar sites are the same. FF.net, Youtube, they all have the same position.

Yes, FF.net won't help if an author on their site gets sued, but FF.net also doesn't have the right to republish the fic, edit the fic, or keep all the royalties made from the fic if any are ever made. That is what I find slimy. If you want to make money from a piece of derivative work then I think you should also go down with ship, so to speak, if that gets the author in trouble.

But if you post to Fanlib where CBS is a partner - it's not likely that CBS will turn around and sue - is it.

CBS is in partnership with Fanlib.com. Are you then implying that CBS is okay with all fic posted on your site? So if someone posted an incest-fic based on Two and a Half Men then CBS would be a-ok?

Your company also houses LotR fic -- do you have permission from Christopher Tolkien? I'm pretty sure you'll just repeat what you've said in your reply above, but I know that other archives also do not promise legal protection. What concerns me about your company's archive is that they are putting a spotlight on fanfic which no other archive is doing AND they are openly stating that they plan to make a profit.

Can't you see the difference between your site with openly states that it has the right to edit, republish, and use royalty-free the work of fans and other sites that merely host them with the right to remove if they deem the fic unsuitable for any reason?

[kerravongenius]: I think fan fiction is considered fair use except where it is done for profit. Even I, a fanfic writer for a long time, would consider it a breach of copyright if I tried to gain financially from characters who belong to someone else.

Fanlib not only turns fanfic into a commercial matter, but is taking money for other people's fiction and not offering any legal protection. It's like going round persuading kids to break into houses, getting them to throw the loot out to you and then leaving them behind to face the police.

[alias sqbr]:Hmm. I agree that companies shouldn't be so narky about fanfic, but that doesn't change the fact that they are. As to it's being illegal I get the feeling opinions are divided, I'm hardly an expert but given that your company is on the "no it's not" side of the fence the business strategy makes more sense!

I can certainly see the positives in creating a space for fanfic written with the cooperation of the copyright holders. I am, however, somewhat uncomfortable with the idea of making money off fanfic when that money goes neither to the fic writers nor to most of the original creators (since as you point out if you just hosted stuff from copyright holders with whom you have an arrangement you'd have pretty slim pickings) But given how much of this debate is about the consequences of your site (and others like it) existing, I may sit and wait and see what those consequences are before passing final judgement.

Off topic somewhat, but I agree with the people saying you really should look into the discussions of fanfic as a female friendly space, they're quite interesting and will make you better able to make your case to the feminist acafans (who hold significant sway in this corner of fandom) You're in a very visible position as the fannish face of FanLib and so (in my opinion, which is easy enough to say when I'm not you) have a responsibility to make sure you're really well informed.

[jdsampson]: How did you go about inviting writers to join?

I can't speak for everyone in the company but my invites (before we were open to the public) went to fan writers who's work I liked. People I thought were really terrific at what they did - thus mostly Supernatural, Dark Angel, Stargate Atlantis and just some people I've known through other fandoms.

After we picked on the people we knew, we did a second round where we looked for other really great, prolific writers on the web. This is where some of the issues began because many of those people viewed the invites as spam, but again - anything I personally sent out came from my reading stories and seeing something terrific.

These people who joined in beta were all instrumental in making the site what it is to date (So many changes were made) and we're still changing. Today we're implementing the function that moves up dated stories to the top of the list so when you add a chapter to a WIP, you go up to the number one slot for the day. And shortly we'll have email notifications telling you about comments, updates, etc.

Now we're open to the public so anyone can join.

So how is this "paid"? Do people make money off of ads?

Hmmm..now I'm really confused. There is no "paid". It's a fan fic community, like LJ is a community, myspace, etc.

[chicgeekchick]: The question is how do YOU get paid. Who signs your paycheck and where does THAT money come from? Where does the money to pay the webmaster and the server comes from? The ads? The sponsors? Do you run this place at a loss? Or do you gain something? If so, how?

And BTW, I find the idea that you personally at least looked at some of the fanfic author's work very dubious. From what I gathered at other LJs, people figured that you just culled their emails from the profiles and sent spam. What's more, in a LOTR site, someone joined up with the only purpose to gather emails, since s/he never posted anything.

Explain.

[jdsampson]: Once again, I see this conversation turning into a personal attack against me and I don't get it or want it. The fact that you call my statements "dubious" -- in other words you think I'm a liar, and demands like "explain" tell me that no matter what I say, it won't make a difference.

Fanlib is a company - Fanlib.com is not the only thing they run. We have been running fan events online for several years, we are currently running huge promotion called IntheMotherHood.com with spring, MSN, The Ellen Show and we're working on an event for one of the biggest media brands around which will be unvieled shortly. Those events pay the bills. And what also amazes me about the question is why does no one ask it of Fanfic.net. Do you have any idea how much money they really make.

It's much more than it takes to run the servers.

ringspells: Um, I'm sorry, but you still haven't answered the question and I (and many more) really would like an answer.

Does the company make a profit off the website?

Those events pay the bills does not answer the question, and that's the nearest thing to an answer anyone's giving.

The only other thing Fanlib.com spokespersons are saying in relation to that is thatFF.Net makes money, and that is irrelevant (as is its veracity, which I have no way of checking at this point). I (among others) are not asking if Fanlib is the first to (want to) make a profit off fanfiction, but whether it is in fact making a profit (or intends to).

Please note I don't mean to say it is okay for FF.Net to make a profit and for Fanlib it is not; I am merely saying that regardless of other sites' monetary gains, some of us want to know whether this particular site [Fanlib] is making/intends to make a profit. We need to if we want to form a complete, informed opinion on it, and that is vital if we are to decide whether to use it or not.

Actually, I think that information should be readily given; people shouldn't need to work this hard to (try to) get a concise answer. The fact that no one seems willing to give one leads me to think they want to hide it, and people always have reasons for hiding something. Those reasons are usually either that it will stop them from getting what they want (or hurt their progress on that road), or that they are ashamed of it, and I really don't think shame has anything to do here.

It's really easy to make assumptions about why Fanlib will not answer this question (among others, but I'm focussing on this right now), and Fanlib keeping quiet will only cement them; but I honestly want to hear the official answer to this, which is why I took the time to ask.

Please note that I am trying my best to word my comment as politely as possible, and that I mean this not as an attack, but as a genuine desire to know more about this site, and be communicated its motivation and its financial stand as an official statement before considering my conclusions (drawn from the information available so far) final.

[megpie71]: I'm less than impressed with the FAQ, which doesn't really address any of the questions I've seen frequently asked about this matter, to wit:

1) What association with fandom do the board members have? 2) Which fandoms do they have associations with? 3) Who is their favourite fan author? What is their favourite fan story? 4) Can they provide us with any proof whatsoever that this is more than just a cynical money-making exercise on the part of some people who think they've seen a market in need of exploitation?

I always thought fan fiction was about sharing with readers but many people have been objecting to what we see as new ways to get your fiction seen and read.

Well, yes. This is because as far as I can tell, the only thing *new* about the things they're doing is that the board of directors clearly expects to make mondo profit off the unpaid labour of others (and even that's hardly radical... it's been part of slavery for millennia). That they're using the unpaid labour of others who didn't expect to be paid for what they do in the first place (or had they missed the bit about fanfiction being a labour of love?) just makes it despicable.

I have to ask some more questions: 5) How much of the money generated by FanLibs is going to wind up with the original content creators - that is, the authors, writers, artists, scriptwriters, producers, directors, actors and musicians whose hard work inspires their fans to write fanfiction, or create fanart? 6) How much is going to wind up with the publishing companies, movie corporations, and merchandising units which hang off the side of their efforts? 7) Oh, and is any of it going to be put back into providing any service to fans which isn't going to be charged for, or covered with someone's logo?

[jdsampson]: mondo profit off the unpaid labour of others (and even that's hardly radical... it's been part of slavery for millennia). That they're using the unpaid labour of others who didn't expect to be paid for what they do in the first place (or had they missed the bit about fanfiction being a labour of love?) just makes it despicable.

Mondo - wow, that would be nice.

And I assume then that you boycott Fanfiction.net - we've done the math on their public ad impressions x's dollars. They're making a profit.

neotoma: Perhaps if you'd explain your analysis.

"They're making a profit" is at the moment your word alone. If you explained how you've determined they're making a profit -- how much ad revenue are they getting, how you figured that out, and what their server, bandwidth and associated costs are in comparison, I'd be more inclined to believe you.

A fiat statement is not a convincing argument when you're asking people to trust you, especially when FanLib has already gotten started on the wrong foot.

[jdsampson]: We actually thought about publishing the information we had in regard to this but we never wanted to make this about us vs them. Fanfiction.net has done an amazing job putting up a huge archive and we don't deny that. We simply don't see how they're praised and we're dinging when there are full page ads running on FF.net. Ebay has a full page ad on Ff.net that appears as you move from page to page. That's dollars in the pocket.

[neotoma]: Yes, the ads provide revenue. But that doesn't mean it is *profit*, which is what your company has been saying.

Fanfiction.net has put itself forward as a not-for-profit, and since you are saying that they are profiting and that makes them no different from your company FanLib, it up to you to prove that they *are* profiting, instead of simply covering their costs.

That's part of your problem right there, of course. There is a very ingrained prohibition in fandom -- conventions, fanfic, propmakers -- to not profit from fan activities. Since your company wants to profit, you're outside of fandom custom.

darkrosetiger: Fanfiction.net has done an amazing job putting up a huge archive and we don't deny that. We simply don't see how they're praised and we're dinging when there are full page ads running on FF.net.

For the record, statements like this may be part of the reason your fandom cred has come into question. FF.net hasn't been praised by...well, anyone here. The site's known throughout LJ fandom as the "Pit of Voles" where you go to find badfic. They've been raked over the coals for any number of things, including deleting NC-17 fic and claiming that the site downtime was for a 9/11 memorial. They have a policy of yanking fic at any time without any warning or explanation if they receive a complaint--regardless of the validity of that complaint.

The negative experiences many of us have had with FF.net are precisely why FanLib is facing such intense scrutiny. It might have been a good idea for you to look more closely at FF.net and try to find out why their reputation among this segment of fandom is so poor.

[jdsampson]: But we've been told over and over that FF.net is fine because they're non-profit, we're bad because we're profit and that's what the comparison is all about.

Whatever people may think of FF.net's issues over the years, there's no denying that they were groundbreaking. They're hugely popular, something like the fifth most stickiest site on the Internet. So perhaps the critics here don't appreciate them but many many people do, and we do to, we're just trying to improve the experience at Fanlib.

If you disagree with the general concept of FF.net, a total archive for all then you won't like Fanlib.com any better. But the fact that there have been so many complaints was part of the reason we thought a choice of archives would be welcome.

The negative experiences many of us have had with FF.net are precisely why FanLib is facing such intense scrutiny.

I wish this was the case across the board, but alas, most of the criticism we've received doesn't support this. If it did we'd be in good shape because we have looked at the issues there and are trying to correct them here.

Far and wide the two largest complaints we've seen are that Fanlib is shining the light on fanfic and that's not good. But with FF.net being the fifth stickest site on the Internet, the light is already shining like a beacon on fan fiction.

Second - that we're for profit.

There have been other smaller issues, but those two come up over and over again.

[neotoma]: Actually, my current objection to you is that you are a for-profit fanfic archive (which is a major taboo in fan culture to start with), having been claiming that makes fanfiction.net is also a *for-profit* fanfic archive and that there is no moral difference between your company and ff.net.

When asked for your proof that ff.net is making a profit, you've pointed to the fact that they have ads. Ads that pay them revenue in some way.

What you have not done is shown that the revenue from the ads ff.net runs is making them a profit.

Profit = Revenue - Cost

If Revenue - Cost = Zero, then there is no profit and ff.net is different from you.

If Revenue - Cost > 0, then there is profit and ff.net is like you.

However, FanLib has not shown your analysis of why your company thinks ff.net is making a profit. Therefore, you have not actually *given* us your argument.

No argument = no case.

The fact that I have to explain both basic logic and basic economics to a representative of FanLib is yet another reason that much of the LJ fanfic community doesn't *trust* you. Either you are being deliberately obtuse, deliberately evasive, or are just plain dumb -- none of which make for a trustworthy foundation.

megpie71: Firstly, you haven't answered any of my questions. I thought that's what you were here to do? Answering even one of them would be nice. Answering all of them would be polite. Feel free to run them past the company's publicist and legal team if you like - I'm not going to rush you on this.

Secondly, whether or not I boycott FF.net is entirely my own business, and none of yours - and ditto my reasons for doing so if I choose to. It also has absolutely nothing to do with the questions I asked. Could you please answer them? Answer via email, if you like - the LJ account will reach me.

This is starting to get to be a bit of a sore point with me - if you're turning up on this forum and offering to answer questions, you should actually answer the questions, rather than rushing off into the red herrings. Why not answer the questions we've asked, rather than the ones you want us to ask, and see how much further the discussion goes?

[jdsampson]: Why not answer the questions we've asked, rather than the ones you want us to ask

And here's where I scream because I must be losing my mind. I have answered and answered and answered. You can find all of these on various LJ threads and its insane to ask me to repost them over and over on every individual LJ. For example.

Q:1) Which copyright holders have said they will not take legal action against writers on Fanlib?

A:No license holder would ever sign away their right to sue under ANY conditions. No lawyer would allow that. What if someone decided to post a fan fic that included the home addresses of every actor on a show? You can laugh - but legal contracts are written for unlikely events such as that.

Q: 2) Will you give a cast iron pledge, here, in public, that Fanlib will not be selling anthologies of work posted?

A:I can promise you that Fanlib will not sell anthologies of work without permission of said authors. You also get the promise of my boss David. Here is his response which can be found on our forum.

(Remember, we (Fanlib) lose all rights as soon as something's removed so we won't be investing in exploitive commercial products without member say-so.)

Q: Well, you have an agreement with CBS for a contest for Ghost Whisperer. Does that include other shows, such as Numb3rs?

A: The Ghost Whisperer contest was for Ghost Whisperer, there is nothing on site to say that CBS condones or doesn't condone fiction on their other shows but logic dictates that if they're asking for Fan Fic on one show, it's unlikely that they would sue you for fiction on another.

Q:3) What fanfic has been written by the actual people running Fanlib?

A:My fanfiction can be found all over the Internet, and I currently have 13 stories posted on the Fanlib. I have work on FF.net and tons of work on the Wonderful World of MakeBelieve Archive, several Supernatural archives and I'm in print in a half dozen fanzines. And though I am not a board member in that I'm not a Fanlib founder, I am one of the people who runs the site on a day to day basis making decisions about what to feature, writing up news, etc.

David Williams is a fan reader and I don't think that idea is given enough credit. He's a huge Star Trek fan and has participated in other aspects of fandom. I don't think it's fair to discount him because he doesn't write fic. If there were no readers, we'd have no need for the site.

Craig Singer turned his horror fandom into a movie script, Dark Ride was recently released on DVD by Lion's Gate

Chris Williams is a TV and Movie producer.

Personally, I think this is the perfect mix. We have the writer, the reader, the scriptwriter, and the entertainment producer making for a very well rounded group of people who's combined talents hits all areas of fandom. That's why I think the project is exciting and groundbreaking.

How many more do I need to repost? Why does everyone keep insisting I'm not answering questions and when I do answer them the answers are ignored!

[jdsampson]: According to your TOS just publishing a fic on your site means giving Fanlib permission to edit, reproduce, and use royalty-free the story. Do you mean that you wouldn't publish any fic in anthologies without first directly contacting the authors for permission?

I give a clear answer and still it's questioned. I have said and my boss David has said, we would never publish anything (and right now we have no plans to ) without permission of the authors. That would be counter-productive and would only alienate the authors we've invited into the site. Why would we throw away everything we've created just to publish a book of fan fiction?

[likethemodel]: I give a clear answer and still it's questioned.

You did not give a clear answer. Your TOS states that by posting a fic on Fanlib.com the author is giving the site permission to edit, reproduce, and use royalty-free the said fic. When you say "I can promise you that Fanlib will not sell anthologies of work without permission of said authors..." I don't know if you mean that you'll contact the authors and ask for the permission at the time you decide to publish the fic or that you will consider the fact that the stories are posted on the site as permission to use them.

[jdsampson]: Do any of the people on the board or staff of FanLib have any prior experience in running or managing a large-scale fanfiction archive?

Not a fan fic archive but Fanlib's primary function as a company is running large-scale fanfiction and writing events online that are hit by thousands and thousands of people. We're currently running IntheMotherhood.com for The Ellen Show, Sprint and Suave. We ran The L-Word Fan Writing events for Showtime and the even larger events for HarperCollins and soon we'll be running a Star Trek event.

This internal squabbling isn't specific to fanfiction archives. I help moderate a board for a large DVD website and it's just as crazy if not worse. People are apparently quite serious about their DVD viewing.

[not mandroid]:What I would be worried about isn't the archiving side of things. It's more concerning the handling of it. You said you've seen the crazies, been dealing with the crazies, but how about the board of staff? Are they ready for that? Will they one day think ship war isn't something they want and forbid all kind of romance fics, regardless of pairing, etc? Who's monitoring the submissions, etc?

I haven't seen this question asked before, at least I can't remember, sorry if it's been done. What's the policy of archiving fictions of higher ratings and/or kinkier stuffs? The way it is right now will become problematic later on. Much, much, more problematic.

lastrega: How many more do I need to repost? Why does everyone keep insisting I'm not answering questions and when I do answer them the answers are ignored!

I understand you're frustrated, but did you honestly believe that this idea would be welcomed with open arms? We already have more archives than we know what to do with, fan culture is well-entrenched in lj, The Pit of Voles soaks up most of the badfic, and yet some bright spark thinks that dangling an ugly public archive with dubious connections in front of us is supposed to make us wet our pants with glee? Wow, did you come to the wrong place.

I've followed this since it broke and I've seen your responses all over and you, who are supposed to be the 'fannish face' of this venture, come across as alternately evasive and disingenuous. Possibly this is why no one is believing a word you say. We'd like some straight answers, it's as simple as that.

[megpie71]: I look at FanLibs, and I see another attempt by Big Money to snatch our public open space, label it, logo it, bland it down to make it "saleable", charge us a fee for using it, and expecting us to be *happy* with the result. No, actually let's work that up a bit. The board of FanLibs actually expects us to be cringingly grateful that someone has taken the trouble to exploit us, and at least one of your directors got very annoyed when fandom as a whole didn't respond with fawning awe, and posted a narky comment on a lot of people's live journals. Yeah, that *really* increases my desire to use the site.

Another question: 8) Was that seriously meant to either impress or intimidate anyone?

Yet another set of questions: 9) Who elected the board of FanLibs? 10) Where can I (a foreign national) get a copy of their annual report? 11) Are shares in FanLibs publicly traded? 12) Is there any plan to make these shares publicly available? 13) What is the corporate process for getting someone elected to the board of FanLibs?

(Or, to quote Billy Bragg, 14) "Who are these people? 15) Who elected them? 16) And how do I replace them with some of my friends?")

The questions that fans and fanwriters have been asking about issues such as intellectual property, copyright and ownership are ones which have been lurking in the background of fandom for as long as fandom has been going. No court *anywhere* has given a judgement on them, and as such, it's a bit presumptuous of the board of FanLibs to assume that things are going to fall out in their direction. Particularly since the way the Terms of Service are written implies very strongly that if an original content creator or copyright holder (or worse still, trademark holder) should get the wind up about things, the FanLibs board are going to softly and suddenly vanish away, and leave the fanauthors out to dry.

(Oh, and one final question: 17) What kind of account have your people taken of the fact that fandom, fans, fanauthors, content creators, entertainment media companies, and legal systems exist *outside* the continental United States of America?

So far as I can tell, as an Australian, I'm looking at not only being in trouble with the US copyright holders, I'm in trouble with the Australian enforcement of the copyright laws, and possibly the Australian defamation laws, should someone decide to get the wind up about my stuff. This is why I keep it pretty quiet at the mo. Oh, and has there been any account taken of what kind of fiction would and wouldn't be legal in various countries? Again, .au has some pretty harsh laws on "child pornography", and a very flexible classification system for same.

[jdsampson]:9) Who elected the board of FanLibs?

They are the founders, its is a private company, they put together their own board which is what private companies do

10) Where can I (a foreign national) get a copy of their annual report?

You can't, it's a private company.

11) Are shares in FanLibs publicly traded?

No, it's a private company (I'm sensing a trend)

12) Is there any plan to make these shares publicly available?

If the company is successful than it could go public just like anyother company. Who knows.

13) What is the corporate process for getting someone elected to the board of FanLibs?

There is no corporate process it's a small company of 16 people.

14) Who are these people?

https://web.archive.org/web/20070518055027/http://www.fanlib.com/cms.do?page=aboutus/bios.html

It's all right there on the website.

15) Who elected them?

As I've said above, no one "Elected" them. It is not a public corporation.

16) And how do I replace them with some of my friends?")

You start your own fan fiction website, that's how. They started this one so they get to run it.

Oh, hang on - eighteen: is anyone actually going to answer any of these?

And these kinds of disparaging remarks do nothing to further the discussion. I am ONE person and I can only type so fast and I do have to make a living in addition.

[...]

According to LJ's count - I have responded to 19 Fanlib related messages in the past 24 hours. Most of those responses were so long they were rejected for length and had to be trimmed.

And yet I'm still getting messages saying that Fanlib doesn't want to discuss, cooperate or answer questions. So what? I wasted the time it took me to respond 19 times (and that's just the past 24 hours?)

apparently no one is reading the answers to the questions they've asked.

[morgandawn]: I think some people are reading and listening, some people are reading and still questioning (or not liking the answers) and some people didn't know where to look (aka the LJ scatter factor). So :::I don't think there is an uniform "you people" or a single response to your posts out there.

It may help if you collect the links etc and your responses and try to submit then to metafandom and the other communities now discussing fanlib along with whatever note you think would be helpful to nudge people toward the answers you have provided.

pussy in person

Without even getting into questions of legal issues, C&D orders, etc. the reason the whole concept of FanLib.com confounds me is simply this: why are they doing this? They claim they are attempting to unite fanfic writers and bring fanfic into the mainstream, but to what point and purpose? One of the first economic rules I was ever taught was that there is no such thing as a free lunch. FanLib is entering into (let's call fanfic) a 'market' that is currently thriving, self-sufficient and happy. As a whole, we do not desire to become mainstream. There are already established places (such as ff.net) for "mainstream fanfiction". IMO the majority of us also ~avoid~ such places because of the mainstream ideas, writing, and the like. We specifically create different communities, websites, and forums for certain genres, pairings, themes etc. because we want to create our own niche. The invisible hand of the market is stayed, there is no call, need, nor want for FanLib, so when it appears and attempts to cull writers from 'families' online that are perfectly happy where we are, people are suspicious.

The second issue that confuses me is the determination of what type of fanfic FanLib says they will host. It seems like they say they will take anything, slash, gen, romance, and so forth, but then my question is why would they allow any "taboos" such as kinkfics or R or NC-17 homosexual fiction onto their archive to be associated with certain companies when such content matter is ~the~ very reason authors/companies/and other entities would sue fic writers or archivists in the first place???

I don't see the profit for FanLib and and I don't see why FanLib would invest money into fic (as an outside party) if they are not getting a profit.

Sorry for the longwindedness, I just can't wrap my brain around the idea.