Talk:Dean Winchester/Castiel

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This page is utterly lacking in the massive Destiel wank I don't know anything about but hear about through the grapevine.--aethel (talk) 17:02, 23 May 2015 (UTC)

circa season 8, according to FFA?[1] Some people genuinely believed that Destiel would become canon. fandom_wank entry, ffa wiki entry, --aethel (talk) 21:05, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
I googled a few things and added what I could glean from them. Still need more/better sources.--aethel (talk) 14:35, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

add ship appeal section?

I pulled this paragraph out of the main supernatural page because it seemed more appropriate here, but I'm not sure it's enough for a ship appeal section or if it's actually an argument for canon Destiel:

Destiel has been encouraged by the show with the inclusion of several things: Castiel's trouble understanding personal space around Dean Winchester, the impressive amount of staring that occurs between the two characters, the handprint Castiel marked Dean with after freeing Dean from Hell, and more recently, Dean's proclamation of "I need you, Cas."

--aethel (talk) 22:07, 3 May 2019 (UTC)

Adding/Expanding on Content

For content writers who want to expand any sections, I have a Dreamwidth of archived links that I am regularly updating:

--Justanotheridijiton, 18:28 UTC, 23 April 2020

What might be good idea is to have a separate article about the queerbaiting, etc, and just have a short blurb and a link to the article on the pairing page, if someone is looking to expand upon it -- Kingstoken (talk) 19:55, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

Fandom Wank Additions

I really appreciate the links added by Justanotheridijiton to several SPN articles, but the fandom wank links added to this page I really feel like should probably be part of their own article and not part of the ship page itself, because it is wandering into ship war territory. In other fandoms the ship wars have there own articles, see Bellarke vs Clexa or Caryl vs Bethyl as examples. I could start the article, but I wouldn't feel comfortable writing most of it, I consider myself in SPN fandom, but I have never shipped Deatiel and have actually avoided that part of the fandom as much as possible -- Kingstoken (talk) 17:58, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

I moved the links over to the talk page so that they could be accessible if Destial Fandom wank/Shipwars/Queerbaiting articles ever get written

Page Name

I'd like to change this page title to Destiel, since that's the pairing name overwhelmingly in use. Let me know if there are issues with this. --caes (talk) 22:01, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

This page was previously named Dean/Castiel. It was moved back in April without any discussion on this talk page. I'd lean more towards Dean/Castiel because that is the name originally used by shippers, and based on the related pages, we've got more Dean/Castiel links than Destiel links. That said, I'm happy to go with whatever the majority consensus is. --Auntags (talk) 22:52, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
I don't think it should be named Destiel, if were are keeping naming consistent with other SPN ship names on Fanlore than it should be either Dean Winchester/Castiel, or Dean/Castiel if people want to argue for that, and Destiel will redirect here as it already does -- Kingstoken (talk) 00:12, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
Not to complicate the issue unnecessarily, but I would have said that Dean/Cas was more of a common ship name than Dean/Castiel? However I admit that I haven't been in the fandom from the Very Beginning, but that was overwhelmingly the ship name that I knew before Destiel. This would have been around 2014 or so.
I think though that it would be a good idea to have a general discussion about Supernatural ship names and how we want to name the pages, because a lot of page names have been changed back and forth with strong opinions and ruffled feathers on each side, and I think that discussing each one individually is somewhat counterproductive. I know that folks on the Sam/Dean Talk page expressed the view that the pages don't have to be all named consistently, and I sort of agree with that, but I do think a central discussion is going to make more headway than individual, scattered discussions. I would also personally prefer that we didn't feel beholden to using "AO3 style" naming systems that include surnames because they do lead to quite clunky page names where multi ships are concerned, and Fanlore's practice has always been to try and reflect the name used by fandom where possible. As long as the ship name isn't ambiguous - and it rarely is - I don't think that we need to include surnames.
Could I suggest that we start a discussion about this over at Help talk:Naming Conventions? The Fanlore Committee recently cleared off that Talk page (the old discussions are archived as subpages) so that it could be used as a general discussion point for questions about page naming that aren't connected to one specific page. I'd be happy to be the one to start it up if everyone else will join me!
We've also recently added some more detailed guidelines around naming ship pages that are worth bearing in mind - including the fact that the most popular name for a ship can change over time. So what seems like the obvious "most popular" name for a ship will not always have been that way. --enchantedsleeper (talk) 13:41, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
I agree that a larger discussion about the naming of ship pages needs to occur. I like when all the ship names within a category, like Category:Supernatural Relationships are consistent, either full name/full name, or name x name, etc, it makes things more organized and helps to give context to future editors about how the pages in that category should be formatted. Overall, I am not a fan of using smush names as the title of pairing pages, because they do change over time, for example, the Castiel/Sam Winchester pairing, their early smush name was Sassy for the first few years, especially over on LiveJournal, and it wasn't until the later seasons that newer fans and fans over on Tumblr started calling them Sastiel. Anyways, I am going to transfer some of these same thoughts over to the Naming Conventions talk page to start the discussion. -- Kingstoken (talk) 18:03, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

Separate page for canonisation/season finale?

Hey - so the page has recently grown several sections, for Season 15, the finale and the Spanish dub, and I wanted to raise the question of whether we should spin these off into a separate page about the SPN finale or the canonisation of Destiel before things get too unwieldy. There've been enough developments, fanworks, meta and memes that I think these events could fill out a separate page without any trouble.

I'm open to suggestions about the name/scope (e.g. just Destiel, or more focused on Season 15 and the ending of the show?). --enchantedsleeper (talk) 22:03, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

I think this might not be a bad idea, an article on the events of November 5 alone would probably big enough for it's own article -- Kingstoken (talk) 18:05, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
I agree with the separate page thing. In fact I came on here to suggest just that! I'm not even a fan of the show, but being on Tumblr this last month or so has been wild and the way reactions, memes and developments have trickled throughout the site has been an experience to say the least. I think having its own page would allow a whole range of both fans and non-fans to offer their thoughts on the whole thing. Even as an outsider, I can see there's a lot missing from the section, particularly regarding the initial reaction to the scene in 15x18: references to Putin, Georgia and the US elections happening at the same time etc. There's also that recent thing about Obama. And I can't see any mention of Sarah Z's video on Destielgate either. So, anyway long story short, I agree. OfMonstersAndWerewolves (talk) 22:28, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
OfMonstersAndWerewolves, thank you for creating Destielgate !!!
I'm leaving this message here so the discussion re:scope is all in one place. November 5, 2020 is currently redlinked on another page. (I'll admit I redlinked it awhile ago because I do believe that night/next morning for some of us in other timezones, deserves its own page.) If we're considering multiple pages, I'd like to propose Nov 5 for what happened after 15x18, and Destielgate for everything after the finale. Even though I recognize there is a huge amount of overlap, I feel fans were really hopeful after the canonization and expected a resolution. But the lack of a resolution in the finale led to Destielgate/SPNgate. That said, I'm happy if we redirect Nov 5 to Destielgate for now and want to leave the discussion of multiple pages for awhile.--Auntags (talk) 20:05, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
No problem Auntags! Thought I'd at least start it off and then folks can add to it where they see fit.
I'd argue that Destielgate seems to include everything that's happened from November 5, 2020 onwards, although as someone not in the fandom I don't know how true that is. But that seems to be the impression I'm getting. I think it would make sense to include it as one of the first notable moments in the Destielgate saga, although if there's a lot of information a separate page could be made which Destielgate could then link to, perhaps in a November 5th 2020 section after a brief summary. But we could always start off editing the initial aftermath of Nov 5th on the Destielgate page and then see how much info we have then as to whether a separate page would be worth it. If that makes sense.-- OfMonstersAndWerewolves (talk) 20:30, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
That does make sense and it's a very good plan. I'll create that redirect now --Auntags (talk) 20:41, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
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