User talk:Aethel/2008-2011 Archive

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Archived Talk Page: This page is an archive of talk from User talk:Aethel, created on 9 December 2012. This page should not be edited. If you wish to continue a discussion including on this page, please do so on User talk:Aethel, and link to this page.

Hi, thanks for cleaning up my edits! :) --Lorem_Ipsum 22:13, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

No problem! --æþel 22:56, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for rephrasing some of the multiple media page. That's flows a lot better to me.--rache 17:19, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

You're welcome! I couldn't figure out what to call the last section, though....--Aethel 17:27, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

da·ta·base (dā'tə-bās', dāt'ə-) Pronunciation Key n. also data base A collection of data arranged for ease and speed of search and retrieval. Also called data bank.

tr.v. da·ta·based, da·ta·bas·ing, da·ta·bas·es To put (data) into a database.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition Copyright © 2006 by Houghton Mifflin Company.--User:Deirdre 04:42, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Shoot, I did it wrong and it didn't show my name above. I don't use wikis enough nowadays. Anyhow, not that I think any of your edits to the Gossamer article were bad, I just found the database-not-a-verb comment kind of funny. I don't know when it was added to dictionaries, but I know that it was fairly generally accepted by about 1999. My editorial manager back then was quite the grammar cop, but it passed her approval. Although, given the number of technical manuals we edited and published, maybe she just accepted it as shorthand for sanity reasons.--User:Deirdre 04:55, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
Wow, okay. It's just that I never heard it even when working with databases every day in a corporate environment. And it's kind of an awkward construction. The editor in me rebels!--Aethel 15:29, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Hey! I can't seem to see the same problem you're having with this issue. Could you maybe screencap it? --ChristyCorr 18:41, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

The page seems to be working again. I looked at it just now in Firefox and IE 6. Looks like you fixed it...--Æthel 19:07, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Yay new Geocities pages! \o/ I will keep track here, and cross them off the spreadsheet, but if you want to edit it yourself I'm very happy to add you (or anyone!)--MegR 12:29, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

That spreadsheet is intense. I'm not sure I wouldn't screw it up. But I will add more pages!--æthel 17:43, 19 September 2009 (UTC)
no, no don't be scared! It's just a harmless list of websites! There's nothing *to* screw up! Wahh! --fails once again to suck people into using her beautiful spreadsheet-- ! If you change your mind, just email me at meg @, i'd be *completely delighted* to add you. --MegR 17:57, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

A couple of notes on your bug tracking items:

-- I can't recreate the error you mention here: [1] -- can you please provide a screencap?

-- With regard to the request for more prominent help links in larger text, we need more specifics. Help is linked in the sidebar and we can't change that font. Can you be more specific as to what else you are suggesting.

Thanks! - Melina 18:09, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

I get the same completely broken page when a "--" is in a title and have uploaded a screencap:Image:Snap6.jpg--Ratcreature 19:49, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
Ok -- we'll look into it. I'm thinking it may be a problem with our skin because I use monobook and don't have the problem. I'm not sure if there's a solution besides renaming the page, but we'll try to find out. -Melina 20:57, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
Basically, the help link was buried in a huge list and I never noticed it. I was thinking it could be in one of the horizontal list of links at the top right corner of the page. Or! The "editing help" link you see at the bottom of an edit page could be moved to the top of the page, in the same line with all the editing tool buttons. I didn't notice that editing help link until just now.--æthel 21:05, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
Sadly I'm not sure those changes are possible. The editing window is not something that we can edit, afaik, and any text has to be after. We can look into editing the skin on top (not something I can do). In the meantime, I can experiment with the sidebar a bit, and see if that helps in making it more prominent. -Melina 21:39, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
The "Help" heading in the sidebar looks good to me. Incidentally, why is "Recent Changes" under the Fanlore heading and not the "Browse" heading?--æthel 23:10, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
Don't know the reason, sorry. I think that should be as high up as possible on the sidebar, so I'd prefer to see it where it is. -Melina 05:30, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

I love what you added to the zine category page. :-) It makes it a lot easier to navigate. Thank you! Mrs. Potato Head 01:38, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for fixing those double-redirects, Aethel. :-) Mrs. Potato Head 15:15, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

no problem--æthel 15:25, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

fandom categories

Aethel, can you clarify about this new fandom category thing for me? If an article is about, for example, "Starman," then that article should get Category:Starman. If that article is about a Starman zine, then it should get Category:Starman AND Category:Starman Zine? --Mrs. Potato Head 13:29, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

If the article is about Starman, then, yes, it should get Category:Starman. As for Starman zines, I'm not entirely sure myself. I've been following the principle that, if there are ten million Starman zines, I should just add the Starman Zines cat and not the Starman cat, because the zines would overwhelm the other Starman pages and render the Starman category useless. Also, fandoms with lots of zines tend to have a "list of zines" page that can get both categories. But it's all very subjective.--æthel 13:49, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
It's just that some folks are adding both fandom cat and fandom-zine cat (like here: and some zines are getting just the fandom cat. I'm actually quite confused. --Mrs. Potato Head 14:11, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
That will have been me. My theory with categories is always to add all the relevant categories in the tree, because not everyone is looking for just the specific subsection -- someone looking to see everything on the wiki related to Starman wants zines, too. It will make some of the larger fandom categories harder to look through in some cases, but most of the really large ones will also be broken out into Fandom Communities, Fandom Characters, Fandom Pairings, etc, so hopefully the bulk of the sorting will be handled that way. If it's a matter of things like main information pages getting lost in the shuffle, category pages themselves can be edited to give a quick rundown of what's where - "This is the category page for Fandom Page, yadda yadda". --Arduinna 15:42, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
An article, then, about Magnificent Seven that's about a pairing will get a pairing category AND the general Mag7 cat? A article about a Mag7 zine will get the Mag7 cat AND a Mag7 zine cat? Will all fandoms get a fanzine cat? I don't see one for Highlander or MacGyver. Is this because there isn't going to be one or because it hasn't been made yet? And if it's not going to be made, is it based on the number of zines in a fandom? And here's another question: will pairings be something that gets put on a zine article, say for a zine that features a specific pairing? Are these categories to be used like tags in that sense? Is there a page on Fanlore that explains how to use these new cats? I want to make sure I understand and don't mess a bunch of stuff up. --Mrs. Potato Head 16:07, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
someone looking to see everything on the wiki related to Starman wants zines, too. Yes, but someone clicking on the Starman category will see Starman zines as a subcategory (see for example so adding the Starman cat in addition to the Starman zine cat isn't necessary. --Doro 16:17, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
So, if I'm adding a category to a zine and there's a zine category, I add JUST that? And if there isn't a zine category, then I add JUST the fandom category? Does anyone know if all fandoms that have zines will have a zine category or just ones that have lots of zines? --Mrs. Potato Head 16:38, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
Not all fandoms with zines will have a zine subcategory--only fandoms with LOTS of zines. And it looks like I was the only one adding just the zine subcat and confusing the issue, so I sent an email requesting a definitive statement.--æthel 20:11, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
Well, I think just adding "fandom zine" makes a lot of sense. If you add "fandom" to everything as well, you won't be able to find the pages that don't have their own subcategories because they get lost in all the other pages. --Doro 20:26, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for cleaning up those categories I just created. I forgot to delete the parenting categories. Sorry, my mistake (: --Tuulia 19:12, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

TOS Zine Cats

Hi Aethel, the reason why I stopped adding the TOS Zines cat after adding all the non-fiction zines was that there were already 150 pages in that category and I hadn't even started with the fiction zines. That's why I requested subcategores for TOS zines. I didn't want to do all the work twice and thought it would be better to wait for the subcategories. ^^° --Doro 20:09, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Miami Vice zines

Should I go with Category:Miami Vice or Category:Miami Vice Zines on the fanzines? --Mrs. Potato Head 17:35, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

I'm not familiar with the fandom, but from what I can see on the Miami Vice page, it looks like you should go with Category:Miami Vice.--æthel 17:52, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
I just sorted the zines into gen, slash, MV-only and multimedia, and FWIW, there are more than twenty gen MV-only zines and more than twenty slash MV only zines on that list, and a handful non-fiction MV zines. So actually going by that fifteen rule we should not just have a category Miami Vice Zines but subcategories in that.--RatCreature 19:40, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
Now, I don't know what to do. :-( --Mrs. Potato Head 20:07, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
MPH's question (I assume) was in response to the discussion here, where we decided that since there was only one non-zine Simon&Simon page, there was no point in creating a more complex structure. Are there likely to be more Miami Vice non-zine pages added in the future?--æthel 20:19, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
So if it is only zines the size of the subgroups within don't matter? i.e. the rule is to a fandom category up when there are say 20 community pages and 20 zine pages into Fandom Communities and Fandom Zines, but if there are 50 zines in a fandom and we have 20 gen and 20 slash zines and some other zines it won't be broken up in gen and slash zines? --RatCreature 21:14, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
ETA: I mean I get that it is rather pointless to for example make a subcategory just for zines that can't be further divided and all of fandom's pages are also zines. Then you might as well leave all in the main category if they would be all in the same subcategory afterwards. But in this if the rule is "more than 15 of something for a subcategory" we could break the MV zines up in compliance with that. They would not be all in the same.--RatCreature 21:20, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
Well, we could skip the zines subcategory and treat the main fandom category as the zine subcategory. That way we could have
Category:Miami Vice
Category:Miami Vice Gen Zines
Category:Miami Vice Slash Zines
and the main page wouldn't be so empty.--Doro 21:28, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
I'm thinking the plan is that if the fandom is small and inactive and little more than a stub, and zines are really the only content, then even the zines won't even get a zine category, just a fandom one. It makes sense from a non-cluttery viewpoint, but requires each wiki editor to make a judgement call and feels a little haphazard. *shrugs* I don't really know what to do at this point as I feel I'm either messing up or duplicating work. --Mrs. Potato Head 21:21, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

block user

This isn't an legit entry, but an advertisement. Can you delete (and block?): --Mrs. Potato Head 19:22, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

done!--æthel 21:53, 7 July 2010 (UTC)


thanks for editing the crossover pairngs page i made. I understand crossover really well but i find them hard to explain in words. Thanks for fixing the mistakes i made when typing it

Thank you

I just wanted to thank you on Nancy's behalf for all the editing you've just done. -- Greer Watson 02:24, 27 August 2010 (UTC)


This one has me stumped. Can you fix it? --Mrs. Potato Head 12:07, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

gardener tags and duplicate images

This is all much needed clean-up, over a year in the making. I have it on my to-do list find it overwhelming so I'm glad it's being tackled as a group project. About all the images that will be left with gardener tags about which image to use: I'd like to wait a bit on the ones that need to be dealt with. And then, if in a week or two, no one else chimes in with an opinion, just go ahead and make an executive decision and clean up that part. Does that sound like a good plan? --Mrs. Potato Head 00:54, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Actually, we have a Template:ProposeDeletion that gives a 14-day deadline that we could use here. I just moved the deletionproposed category under Category:Fanlore Gardening so it will be easier to find.--æthel 01:56, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
Sounds good. I think it will be easier to do them in bunches; they'll have a sort of rhythm. If I forget, poke me when it's time to work on them, okay? I might get distracted and forget, but I do want to help. --Mrs. Potato Head 02:19, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
Will do. I'm switching the attention gardener tag out for the deletion proposed tag on some of these now...--æthel 05:13, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

future template tweaking

If we're tweaking templates, here are some possibilities based on what I end up adding to each one:

  • for novel or anthology zines: slash, gen, het
  • for novel zines: editor
  • for novel zines: page count
  • for any print fanwork: size (A4, A5, digest, full size...)
  • for newsletters, letterzines and such: frequency

--Mrs. Potato Head 21:04, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

I added the size, genre, and editor fields to the novel zines template. Template's huge now. Are there any fields that you don't use? What about "other"?--æthel 21:38, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
I'm kinda sloppy about series, but it's good one to keep. Language is a barely touched one. I have been keeping a list of zines in other languages than English in hopes of us getting a system to sort those out. The field "Other" is one I've never touched. --Mrs. Potato Head 22:11, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
I've removed "other" from both the novel and anthology zine templates and added the size and genre fields to the anthology template. Since the anthology template will only be used for fiction anthologies in the future, I think we ought to remove the "type" field as well, though maybe not until after we've done the clean up.
If the other zine templates look okay, I think we're ready for the next step. I'm hoping to get a few more people to join in the fun: the zine and fiction writing (and print media!) categories will have to be manually removed from a lot of pages, plus the anthology template will need to be replaced on the newsletter, resource, and poetry zine pages. So that should keep me out of trouble for a while :)--æthel 00:45, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
I agree on getting rid of "type" on all templates. It's not a helpful field. Here's a question: I see the new templates in place on each zine article, but when I try to edit them, I get the old template. Is this a problem or something that's due to the project being in flux? --Mrs. Potato Head 17:06, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
When a template is changed, the way it displays will change on every page it was previously used on, but the text on the wiki page won't be updated. You'll need to copy the new version of the template into the page if you want to use the new fields :( --æthel 17:16, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
So, we really do need to change them all by hand? I got all excited thinking we didn't. Oh, well. It keeps us off the streets, right? --Mrs. Potato Head 18:43, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Main Page

The current formatting of the main page looks really clunky to me. :/ Wouldn't it be better to move the image under the infobox? --Doro 18:52, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

I moved it, but the size of the browser window is going to affect how it looks. How does it look to you now?--æthel 19:30, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
Thank you! Looks good to me. ^_^ (PS: There is a div code you can use to make it float directly under the infobox. I've used it for example here and here.) --Doro 20:21, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
I didn't know about that div code, thanks! I added a line about it to the Help:Images page.--æthel 21:51, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
The div code is also the only way I know that works for floating left despite the wordpress skin issues. :D --Doro 22:02, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

K/S Press

I'm trying to get the K/S Press page all set up for the rest of the issue information. What should go on the subpages to make navigation among pages work well? Example: from the main page, you click on issue #35, then want an easy way to get back to the main page, or want to go to issue #45? Do we have a model of a page already, one from which I can crib? I'd like to have an "ideal" article to work from as I need to make these modifications to S and H, possibly Southern Enclave and for a Professionals one coming down the line. Any help/suggestions would be appreciated as this technical organization is not my forte. --Mrs. Potato Head 15:39, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

Spam and Profound Disappointment

Thanks for taking out the trash. You know, aside from spam being a hassle, waste of time, and a violation, it is disappointing; here I was thinking someone out there cared enough to add valid content to The Cauldron. Rats. :-( --Mrs. Potato Head 15:42, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

While you're here, could you maybe ban a spammer? I've tagged them with the Spam template. --Doro 22:50, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

All done; thanks for pointing it out.--æþel 23:21, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

image categories (anime, manga)

I'm quite new at this Wiki editing and I noticed you and Frogspace changing the categories for the images I uploaded. I don't want to cause unneccessary work, so I would appreciaty greatly, if you could tell me, which categories I should add to a new image. Thanks!

Extempore, rule of thumb for images is to use a fandom category if it can be identified with a particular fandom. In general, I try to avoid using the fandom "format" categories like Anime, Books & Literature, Television, etc. for images, but we haven't established rules for every situation. We're developing some guidelines here. --æþel 11:39, 5 May 2011 (UTC) P.S. Thank you so much for expanding the World of Warcraft page!
That helps me a lot, thank you! As for WoW - I was quite surprised that the page for a game with arguably the largest user base ever was empty. Even now there is so much more which can be added to the site, but that's quite a task and I figured I had to start somewhere. No use in overdoing it right from the beginning. ;) --Extempore 12:28, 5 May 2011 (UTC)
I don't think many of the Fanlore editors are WoW users--hence the lack of material on WoW. If you know of some fans who'd be interested in wiki editing or of a good place to post requests for help, it would be great to bring more people in. :) The wiki committee is working on outreach to underrepresented fan communities this year, so we can contact them if we know where to look, but it's usually more effective coming from someone who's familiar with the community. No pressure! :)--æþel 13:32, 5 May 2011 (UTC)
Hm, I guess I'd test the waters at wow_ladies over at LJ. I'm not active in that communty (just lurking), but if you want I can post a pre-made text from the Committee. I can do the same in other Anime communities I'm part of, too. However, I think it is important to make it very clear what this Wiki is about. At first, I had some problems to adjust, thinking "The Wikipedia article on WoW is already huge - what else should I write over here?". Otherwise you might have an influx of people writing technical infos on their favourit series and games. ;)
There are also the official WoW forums, but I wouldn't advise to post there just yet, at least not until you have the manpower to correct masses of mistakes made by epeen-needy fanboys. >_> --Extempore 13:59, 5 May 2011 (UTC)
If there is a fandom category, it gets the fandom category (and a date category, if applicable; I wasn't sure about the anime images you uploaded so I waffled a bit between adding a date cat and not adding it ^^°). If there is no fandom category, it gets the anime/manga category (or whatever bigger category it belongs to; could be a subcategory of activities, communities, etc.). I added the anime cat to that one image because there wasn't a fandom cat yet, but then I reconsidered and created the fandom categories instead (hoping that someone else will make more pages for these fandoms and then already has a category to add to the images/pages). --Doro 11:43, 5 May 2011 (UTC)
About the time category: what does it refer to? The upload date for the file or the date of creation of the source image? If it's the first, no problem. If it's the second... that could prove to be somewhat difficult as I can probably give a time frame in which the anime or manga was created, but not a specific year for a certain image. --Extempore 12:28, 5 May 2011 (UTC)
the date of creation of the source image. I don't think it's as crucial to have a date category on non-fan-produced images, but we could give them decade categories if you're uncertain of the year.--æþel 13:32, 5 May 2011 (UTC)
Decade should work fine in most cases. Btw., I hope it's all right that I created new fandom categories (Noir and One Piece). If not, tell me and I'll just add Anime/Manga next time a series without fanfom cat turns up. --Extempore 13:59, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

Laura Hale

I have tried to write an objective account of how Laura Hale, who has outed many people against their will in fandom, has adopted a Wikipedia username of LauraHale and created a user page which links to her resume, draft dissertation and other documents that include her name, address and email. Yet, she claims that a person who reviewed her article should be banned for outing her. I also tried to capture the nature of her efforts to continue to capitalize on her fan history work, perhaps misrepresenting her credentials. I believe that these are relevant to Laura Hale as a person rather than just the Fan History wiki. If I have not done this in an appropriate way, could you please help me revise the section of the Laura Hale article to meet the criteria. Thanks, TruthTeller2 01:10, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Facetofcathy summed up the issues pretty well on the talk page, but I'll mention a few points here. First, all content on Fanlore should be relevant to fandom, but most of your material did not appear to tie back into fandom or support any of the points you're making here. A lot of it was unrelated descriptions of alleged bad behavior and internal Wikipedia community stuff, but with a lot of speculation and accusation that pushed it into Deceptive Practices territory. Alleged incidents of nefariously capitalizing on her fanhistory work would need more evidence of a) wrongdoing and b) relevence to fandom. We don't want the Laura Hale page to be a laundry list of everything she's done wrong on the internet. However, the part where it's ironic that she said on a wikipedia page that someone should be banned for outing her could, I think, be added to the Laura Hale page, though I recommend you ask the other editors first. My recommendation: it would have to be a brief mention, quoting her words and linking directly to the page where she said it. I hope this helps.--æþel 23:14, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
Yes it does. Which "other editors" should I discuss it with first? Thanks, TruthTeller2 15:28, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Editing Protected Pages

Hi æþel, I wrote a comment on Mrs. Potato Head's talk page about editing protected pages, in this case the Melody C. page. Do we have guidelines for this? Maybe discussion on the talk page before anything new is added? It doesn't seem right to me to just keep on editing when no regular editor can contribute. --Doro 02:08, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

We don't have any guidelines on protected pages in the main namespace. There's a help page, Help:Protected pages, but the "who can edit" section is about technical limitations, not policy. I don't have a problem with the specific edit MPH made, but discussing on the talk page sounds like good policy to me.--æþel 02:35, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
I agree. I want to make sure I/we are doing the right thing in the right way. I'm in unexplored territory with this, but if my addition needs to come off that page, then it should be removed. --Mrs. Potato Head 02:40, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
I thought it was a fine edit and don't think it should be removed, though I'm guilty of making edits post-protection myself, so maybe I'm not in the best position to judge. I was looking at what Wikipedia did with protected pages, and they had some sort of template users could stick on the talk page when they saw an edit that needed making: we could leave instructions for anyone who can't edit the page to add the AttentionGardeners template to the talk page when they see something they want to fix/add, so that someone with permissions can make the change for them. It may also be time to start talking about guidelines for archiving talk pages that get too long (moving the talk page to preserve edit history, for instance). We have a talk page archive template, but I don't think anyone's used it in *years*--æþel 13:54, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

Thank You

Thank you, æþel, for turning Comlink into bite-sized pieces. After working three weeks on it, I kinda didn't want to look at it again for a while. :-| --Mrs. Potato Head 18:31, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

You're welcome! I only skimmed the contents, but noticed there are a lot of nifty quotes I need to go back and read.--æþel 02:53, 8 November 2011 (UTC)