Talk:Yuletide
Christmas Controversy
Should this page have a bit about the controversy around the whole Christmas thing? Or is that another page, "anti-Semitism in fandom" or some such? Either way I think it needs to be acknowledged. --Emma 15:06, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
- Sure, go ahead and add a controversy section. That way all the bases are covered. --rache 15:23, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
- I think this controversy sparked some interesting conversations about antisemitism in fandom, and eventually about Judaism and fandom. That stuff probably wants to be its own page, though. Kass 15:31, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
- Added a basic summation of the original posts, but I have to admit that I really have very little memory of the nonJewish response to the situation, or of which of the mods, if any, discussed it...
- Ditto Kass on the need for a new page about the issue at large. And oh, man, I'm so psyched to see there's a stilljewish page already -- I was there and I still have no idea what, exactly, went down. *wry* --nextian 16:02, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
- I just created the stilljewish page, figuring that if this controversy were going to get written about, the other side of the coin ought to be here too. :-) I'd go ahead and create the "antisemitism in fandom" page so we could begin collecting bits of that conversation, but honestly, my qualm is that I don't like framing the issue in terms of negativity; I'd rather start a page on "Judaism in fandom," of which "antisemitism" could be a subheading. But that might just be me, so I figured I'd wait and see how others felt before plunging in. Kass 16:11, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
- I say plunge away; even if eventually people want to break "antisemitism" off onto its own page, "Judaism in Fandom" is a completely relevant topic that should have a page. --Arduinna 20:23, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
- Okay, the page exists. It's incredibly bare-bones and needs a ton of references and more material and links and so forth! So I hope folks will dive in. (I also welcome conversation about how the page is structured -- I took a stab at it but I'm not sure these are the subsections which we'll ultimately want.) Kass 21:05, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
Should there be a nod to the first secret santa communities?
Some mention of where Yuletide got some of its inspiration from?--Sherrold 23:01, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- Ooh, yes. In my mind, it was inspired by Don We Now Our Gay Apparel (the popslash secret santa -- do I have that name right?) but it's possible I dreamed that... Kass 02:34, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
Wait, Wait, Don't Eat Me
I hate to be un-PPOV, but this story did not get all of those hits because people are dying for NPR fic. That might also be true, but what's distinctive about this one is that it came to the attention of people at NPR and then lots of high-traffic sites like BoingBoing where it was treated more as non-fandom satire (even if/when the word 'fanfiction' was mentioned). The article on the fic itself makes this clear. Franzeska 20:24, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
- Wait Wait was a popular yuletide story, but I agree that the people from outside fandom who read or linked to it were not looking for rare NPR fic. Maybe it should be replaced with a better example?--æþel 20:42, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
- Yeah. It's definitely notable (and funny and widely read by fans because it's good), but I just don't see it as an example of the particular thing it was being used to illustrate. I can't think of a good example of that though. Franzeska 02:38, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
- It seems to me it's a question of what was meant by "go viral"; I've recast the intro text in "Notable Stories" to supply multiple examples in slightly more detail, which may help solve the problem. --djonn 11:02, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
"Eastern" vs. "Western" Fandoms
I started rewording this section so it's less reflected of a Western-centric bias, but I need to read up on some of the issues discussed here. For example, on the section "The moderators have been upfront about the fact that they aren't overly familiar with Eastern source fandoms and frequently ask participants for help judging fandom rarity or identifying nominated fandoms" and "In early years of Yuletide, complaints were usually about the difficulty of being matched if one requested too many Eastern source fandoms", are there any citations or links I could check? -wistfuljane 18:35, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
- I remember people complaining about it being hard to be matched but not attributing this to any problems with the exchange itself (or at least not as much as in more recent years), but I don't have any links. For the mods mentioning this, there have been plenty of posts and comments over time. The current note 17 is an example: "We are particularly interested in hearing about anime/manga fandoms that are not obscure, as this is a weak area for your moderators, and I remember some puzzled mutterings from last year." That one's from 2005. Franzeska 21:33, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
- Thanks for the links. Regarding your edits, I think the The franchise rule has also had a negative effect on rare Western comics fandom and RPF fandom inclusion. should be moved to another section since this is focus on the tension between Eastern source fandoms and Yuletide. -wistfuljane 03:01, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
- Sure, sounds good. Note 45 just struck me because I've seen the same view from Marvel and DC fans, among others. If I had to guess what was most directly responsible for the franchise rule (from the perspective of the mods), I'd probably say Batman or all fandoms collectively or something. Not that that fan's perspective isn't worth including, but in its current format, the article feels a bit misleading to me. Franzeska 16:06, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
- I've reworded the paragraph by adding a "partly" to it. That particularly section, however, isn't meant to focus on the hows and whys of Yuletide's franchise rule though, but its effects on Japanese gaming fandoms and why some gaming fans of Japanese video game sources feel frustrated and alienated -- on which I'm hoping to expand. -wistfuljane 21:19, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
Transfer of Old Archive?
I've added text in a couple of places updating what was originally there about the proposed Great Migration of everything from the original archive over to A03 (which, of course, still hasn't happened). Those with closer ties to the AO3 code-monkeys may want to amplify on the potential tech issues and/or timetable.... --djonn 09:09, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
- I agree, I poked around and didn't find an answer. There are 60 works from Yuletide 2003 but I don't know if that's all of them or there are more to come.--msilverstar (talk) 18:53, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
Screencaps?
Did anyone hang onto their screencaps of this? "the spiffy "Latest story updated by [Author Name]!" with sparkly bright exclamation points of joy around it, along with the number saying which story it was of the total" --Anenko 17:02, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
Splitting the page
The page is too long. We should start splitting out some of the sections into their own articles. Franzeska 15:39, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
- Came back to look at this page after doing some light update to the "Controversies" page. I am wondering if it's time to split the "History" sections here to their own page -- which would, looking further down the tree, probably involve co-opting the current "History of Yuletide" page and moving that content to a brand new subpage along the lines of "Yuletide Statistics" or "Yuletide Catalog". --djonn (talk) 02:39, 13 April 2019 (UTC)
Bears!!!
Discussion on where "bears!" originated: http://yuletide.livejournal.com/1102600.html. --Anenko (talk) 03:14, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
Import of Old-Archive Comments
A note here just to clarify that I'm not trying to engage in a "dueling edits" situation. On the latest round, I moved a "while" that didn't make sense where it had been left after the prior (and entirely proper!) tweak, and added a parenthetical note for readers who may not be familiar with AO3's usage of "guest" to refer to users not logged into the site. (The kudos feature refers to "guests", but I don't think the comment engine does.) I suspect we'll end up reworking this again after the import's actually done.... --djonn (talk) 07:35, 28 April 2014 (UTC)
- heeh, no problem! I'm just (full disclosure) the Support liaison into Open Doors, and for totally unrelated reasons (read: here totally unofficially) I came across this. Because I knew part of the info was wrong, I just changed it to avoid having inaccurate info doing the rounds. I didn't feel you were duelling or anything! hl. (talk) 07:39, 28 April 2014 (UTC)
FF.Net yardstick
The page says, "At one point Fanfiction.net was used as one of the yardsticks for "how much fiction already exists", but a number of participants pointed out that Yuletide participants are largely from a different part of fandom than fanfiction.net users, and ff.net was later dropped as a yardstick." However, eligibility rules for Yuletide 2015 still use FF.Net: http://yuletide-admin.livejournal.com/187158.html Was there a year that didn't use FF.Net? --Sarken (talk) 03:09, 10 June 2016 (UTC)
Splitting the page again
I want to try and get this page ready to be a Featured Article by the time Yuletide nominations roll around again in the Fall, but this page has a lot of outdated and repeated information. I would like to make a new page about the old Yuletide archive site where most of the information under "The Yuletide Archive and Collection" can live, plus information about how nominations, sign ups, posting, etc worked on that site. This would allow the Yuletide page to focus more narrowly on how the challenge is run currently on AO3, which I think will make the article easier to understand and a better resource., while also allowing us to hopefully document the yt archive more completely. Also I kind of want a Yuletide category! I think we have enough pages for it between this page, the history page, various glossary entries, the controversies page, and also all the fic written for Yuletide. - Hoopla (talk) 17:16, 8 March 2021 (UTC)