Jonsa vs Jonerys
| Ship War | |
|---|---|
| ShipWar: | Jonsa vs Jonerys |
| Date(s): | 2015 - 2019 |
| Location: | Tumblr |
| Fandom: | Game of Thrones |
| Click here for related articles on Fanlore. | |
Jonsa vs Jonerys is a shipwar in Game of Thrones fandom, between fans of two Jon Snow pairings, Jon Snow/Sansa Stark, better known as Jonsa and Daenerys Targaryen/Jon Snow, better known as Jonerys.
About
Since the beginning of the series, there were shippers of Daenerys Targaryen/Jon Snow. Although they had no canon interaction for the first six seasons, many fans believed their stories were paralleling each other. To many, Jon represents ice and Daenerys represents fire, indicating that their story is A Song of Ice and Fire, leading some to believe that their relationship would be endgame.
There were early shippers of Jon Snow/Sansa Stark as well, but their ranks grew exponentially when Jon and Sansa were reunited in season six after their family was separated early on in the first season. Because of their interactions in season six and the chemistry some saw between the two characters, some fans declared them their OTP.
The ship war began in season five,[1] but continued from then on. It grew especially heated when Jon and Daenerys' relationship went canon at the end of season seven. The ship war included text posts advocating for one ship and belittling the other, varying from in depth meta[2] to outright mockery.[3][4] Negative posts about the female characters[5] and directed at the opposing shippers.[6] Intentionally putting anti-ship posts in the Tumblr ship tags to create discord[7] and sending anon hate to the inbox of fans of the opposite ship.[8]
A small contingent reacted by shipping Sansa Stark/Daenerys Targaryen instead.
Fandom Discord
Game of Thrones has a large ensemble cast, and throughout the series Jon, Sansa and Daenerys were each shipped with a variety of other characters, in canon and non-canon pairings. The increased prominence of ship wars in GOT fandom in later seasons (Jaime/Brienne vs Jaime/Cersei being the other major one) may have been due to the increased popularity of the show or broader shifts in fandom culture.
Fan windinyoursnail could not recall any major hostility between Game of Thrones shippers in earlier seasons:
I don’t remember this toxicity pre-season 5. Sansa/Petyr and Sansa/Sandor shippers coexisted fine, same with Dany/Drogo and Dany/Jorah.[1]
Mhysaofdragons added that she had not encountered the aggressive behavior of anti-shippers in other fandoms in which she had participated:
That means this person lurks in the tag of a ship they hate, just to start fights with people of that ship. I have been in ship wars in the Star Wars and Vampire Knight fandoms and it has never been like this.[7]
Thewolvesremember remarked that experiencing the ship war provoked negative feelings toward both Jonerys and Dany:
So why do I hate Jonerys? Tumblr. I hate Jonerys not because I don’t ship it, but because I’ve read enough stupid posts by antis to make me want Daenerys to die. Out of spite. And I love Daenerys!!![9]
Lareinadecorazones admitted developing a dislike of Jonsa on the same basis:
I have grown to thoroughly despise Jonsa, a ship that I previously had no opinion of, almost exclusive because of Tumblr... they’ve soured the ship for me. I still like Sansa and her familial bond w/ Jon. But I’ll never ship Jonsa thanks to this site which sucks b/c it shouldn’t be like this.[9]
A Reddit user offered a multishipper's perspective on the ship war, attributing it to GOT's growing popularity and Tumblr discourse:
Because of my double shipping, I get harassment from both sides. Jonsa people have directly messaged me to ask why I could support something as abusive as Jonerys. Jonerys mutuals have blocked me for reblogging Jonsa content.I mostly hangout with Daensa people anymore because their reaction is "okay you ship this but I want less straight content" instead of spewing fire at everything.
The problems mostly originated on tumblr. The original jonsas are some lovely ladies who wrote all kinds of crackfic. Jon and a Harem. Jon and Val Marry and invite other people into their bed. Jon and Sansa. Most of it was smut or smut with mild plot. Sometimes there was real fic.
After season 6 happened, though, more people got into it and a lot of them were the kinds of people who write meta and really want their ending to be canon (aka the young folks who don't realize fanfic originated in alternate realities and not just canon in different settings). Pair this with a handful-sized minority of Jonerys fans who felt threatened by the Jon/Sansa chemistry and their expanding fan base, and I'm sure you begin to see the growing problem.
The small minorities got very snippy and threatening. Then season 7 happened and people got angrier about it. Various fandom fights occurred and fanned the flames. A lot of fic got written that put Sansa and Dany in conflict with each other. People got catty and bratty and offensive and defensive.
Finally, people started to get into The Discourse about the characters individually. Sansa is apparently a bratty teen girl who betrays her family all the time and is just power hungry and jealous Jon is king. Dany is a genocidal white savior who only frees slaves for her own gain and hates everyone who doesn't appreciate her beauty (this was what people said before she actually turned into a genocidal madwoman but season 8 post ep3 is not canon).[10]
The multishipper Seleya attributed the ship war's intensification to plot developments in later seasons bringing Daenerys and Sansa into inevitable conflict:
The Sansa vs. Dany schism properly emerged after S6. Tensions had probably been simmering to some degree beforehand as an extension of the broader Northern Independence vs. Targaryen Restoration debate. But then S6 ended with Jon and Sansa ruling a reclaimed, newly-independent North, and Dany sailing for Westeros to reclaim the Iron Throne, and what had previously existed as an entirely theoretical conflict became a real possibility. The lines drawn between Stark loyalist fans and Targaryen loyalist fans suddenly mattered now that Dany and Sansa's fates seemed on a collision course and one might have to sacrifice the thing she'd fought so hard for on account of the other. Sansa might be a threat to Dany's dream of reclaiming the Seven Kingdoms, while Dany might be a threat to Sansa's wish for Northern independence.
Add to that the leaking of set pictures and scripts in late 2016 that confirmed that Jonerys would happen in S7 and that Jon would bend the knee to Dany. That's likely the point at which the growing tensions really boiled over. Yeah, shipping played a large role in the schism, but it wasn't the sole factor.[11]
Incest Discourse
Since the 2010s, objections to perceived incest have become common in ship discourse, sometimes based on speculative family relationships (pre-RoS Reylo) or friendship being likened to a sibling bond (Sheith). The Jonsa vs Jonerys conflict is a rare example of a ship war involving two objectively incestuous pairings between canonically-confirmed blood relatives of similar degree. In the show, Jon is initially presented as the illegitimate son of Ned Stark, and thus grew up believing himself to be Sansa's half-brother. However, in season 6, it is revealed he is the son of Dany's brother Rhaegar and Ned's sister Lyanna, making him Dany's nephew and Sansa's cousin/adoptive brother.
Shippers in both camps have presented reasons why they believe their preferred ship should be regarded as less problematic. Jonerys fans have argued that Jon and Sansa grew up believing they were half-siblings, while Jon and Daenerys did not meet and discover their blood ties until adulthood.[12] Jonsa fans have countered that Jon and Sansa were not close as children.[13] Some fans have pointed out that Jon and Dany share more genes than an average aunt/nephew couple due to House Targaryen's practice of incestuous marriage (Dany's parents were full siblings).[14] Others have pointed to the acceptance of cousin and avuncular marriages in both real-world contexts and the fictional world of ASoIaF/GOT.[13][15]
ClimateMom pointed out the irony of raising incest objections in a ship war involving two pairings of close relatives:
The angry accusations of incest in that ship war are hilarious. One is Jon's aunt and the other is his first cousin - they're BOTH incest! Plus this is a canon with literal twincest and at least one dude repeatedly siring children on his own daughters, so sleeping with your aunt or your cousin is pretty tame by comparison. :P[16]
SarraTasarien attributed the situation to the show having cut book characters or killed off potential matches for Jon and Sansa:
So you can see why show-canon basically limits Jon to marrying one of his cousins, or his aunt, who is so inbred that their inbreeding coefficient is nearly sibling-level (someone on r/asoiaf did the math). Or pulling a new character out of nowhere, which is never a popular move.
Sansa's in a similar situation, if she's looking for guys who are her age and decent. The Tyrells got wiped out, she only married Tyrion under duress, Theon can never give her an heir, Harry Hardying doesn't exist, and Sweetrobin is a kid compared to her. So Jon is a step up.[17]
Resources
- Tumblr Tags: anti-jonerys, anti-jonsa
- Jonsa, Jonerys, Anti-Jonsa, Anti-Jonerys and the logic of shipping
- Jonsa vs Jonerys #5 Break the Wheel, humorous meta post about the ship war
References
- ^ a b "Jonerys shippers aren't the problem. DaenerysxJon have been shipped since the show started". Archived from the original on 2018-12-04.
- ^ "Can you explain this original outline you keep mentioning?". Archived from the original on 2018-12-04.
- ^ "gourmet meal vs the one stale potato chip you found in the garbage". Archived from the original on 2018-12-04.
- ^ Every time I happen to stumble upon a Jonsa meta in my feed
- ^ "Who would you rather have as a Queen?". Archived from the original on 2018-12-04.
- ^ ""B-b-but why are you so meeeeean??"". Archived from the original on 2018-12-04.
- ^ a b "Streaming thoughts I need to get off my chest". Archived from the original on 2018-12-04.
- ^ "I originally wasn't going to dignify this with an answer to be honest, but then I changed my mind". Archived from the original on 2018-12-04.
- ^ a b "I really, really hate Jonerys". Archived from the original on 2017-07-24.
- ^ "Why do certain OTP fanbases feel like they need to rage war with another?" on r/FanFiction
- ^ "So as a fan who truly loves both Sansa and Daenerys, can someone tell me when all the fighting began between their respective fans?"
- ^ "Why is Jonsa grosser than Jonerys?" on r/freefolk
- ^ a b "We need to talk about Incest a little bit" by jonsalways on Tumblr
- ^ Alex Bruce-Smith, "A Redditor Has Done The Incest Math On Just How Related Jon & Daenerys Are, PedestrianTV, 16 August 2017
- ^ Meta by rainhadaenerys on Tumblr
- ^ "What is the worst ship war you've encountered?" on r/FanFiction
- ^ "Why is Jonsa such a popular ship especially after season 8?" on r/FanFiction