Category talk:Games

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I would like to suggest linking only the main Final Fantasy page in this category, rather than listing all the individual games in the series on this page. That would allow a simple and complete list of the games in the series to live in one place. Thoughts? Thanks! --KJ 07:19, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Fixed! :p--æþel (talk) 01:15, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

Games vs Video Games

We have stuff like Category:Assassin's Creed and Category:Deltarune in both Category:Games and Category:Video Games, but e.g. Category:Dragon Age is missing from Category:Video Games but is present in the Category:Games. Is there some kind of rule to follow here or is it mostly chaotic? - Baycitybomber (talk) 09:45, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

Weighing in very belatedly because I just noticed the same thing. It seems like the majority of pages in this category are actually video games. I'm not sure if it's because there wasn't a specific Video Games subcategory before and these need to be moved over, or whether people just don't realise there's a Video Games subcategory (or both). Furthermore, Video Games is the only subcategory of Games that currently exists. I think that's mostly because we don't have enough pages yet to warrant a Tabletop RPG or a Board Games subcategory, and so with a concerted effort to make more pages we could even things out a bit. However, I also wonder if it would be a good idea to have Video Games as a subcategory of Fandoms by Canon Type instead of hiding it away under Games, so that more people know it exists. I'm in two minds, because I think this nesting makes sense, but right now the net effect of it is to hide Video Games away and confuse people about what category needs to be added.
It also looks like we have some confusion/overlap with Category:Gaming & Role Playing that it would be good to clear up with some better guidance on when to use each category. --enchantedsleeper (talk) 09:09, 15 April 2022 (UTC)
These categories are a bit messy, if the Category:Games is the parent category for fandoms and Category:Gaming & Role Playing is for fan activities than it would probably make more sense for Category:Tabletop RPGs to be a sub-category of Games than Gaming & Role Playing. Also, I think quite a few pages are double categorized with both Games and Video Games and they just need to be gone through and have the extra categories removed. However, this can be tricky, because some big media franchises can have video games and card games, boardgames, etc, Pokemon for example, so it would make sense for that fandom to have both categories -- Kingstoken (talk) 10:33, 15 April 2022 (UTC)
I looked at Category:Tabletop RPGs and the pages in there seem to be a mix of actual fandoms and of pages about tabletop gaming in general, like Rocks Fall, Everyone Dies or Actual-play. For the fandoms I think it makes sense for them to be in Games (or Games > Tabletop RPGs) which is a subcategory of Fandoms by Canon Type, but when you have pages about TTRPG terminology and other things that aren't fandoms, it makes sense for those to be nested under Fan Activities.
I guess the same could be said for video game pages that relate to fan terminology or fan activities that aren't fandoms, like Game Music Video. Maybe it would make sense to have a category for Video Game Fandoms (or Tabletop RPG Fandoms) and then Video Gaming/Tabletop Gaming for the activity. Though I am sure there would still be confusion as to which category should be added to which page. It's not a huge issue to just have one category for each, but since we do have separate parent categories on Fanlore for activities versus fandoms, it becomes harder to decide where to sit those subcategories that mix fandom and activity.--enchantedsleeper (talk) 09:56, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

Do we get rid of the Games category?

Currently this category does not have a lot in it, all the pages, etc, have been placed in the sub-categories of either Category:Video Games or Category:Tabletop RPGs. There may be some discussion about whether we should keep this category or not. I think it might be worth keeping as a parent category for organization, and for any games fandoms that don't fit within the video games or RPGs categories, but I am willing go along with any consensus that is formed. So what does everyone think? -- Kingstoken (talk) 22:39, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

it's kind of a confusing category, personally? video games and ttrpg don't really belong in the same category because they're two very different things only linked by the concept of "games" and should probably stand on their own. it's a little bit like putting books and comics together for me and i don't know that it really makes sense organizationally as someone who's into both of those things. most of the things i can think of that wouldn't go in either of those categories would actually end up in Category:Gaming & Role Playing or be better served by their own category. - flyingthesky (talk) 00:41, 16 April 2022 (UTC)
I'd be okay with deleting this category if we're sure there isn't another category of games we haven't covered. "Games" is pretty ambiguous and might be misused for fan games as well as game fandoms. Are there fandoms for card games? Board games? Is Magic: The Gathering truly a tabletop RPG or a collectible card game? AO3's other media lists a few board games, though they don't have a lot of works under them.--aethel (talk) 17:09, 17 April 2022 (UTC)
I'd say delete. This category currently only has two subcategories in it, and I agree with the assessment that this category is lumping two mediums communities together that don't share much in common outside of some broad concepts. If we don't get anything that neatly falls into either category, I say a category of "Tabletop Games" for card games, board games, and TTRPGs would work much better, as those communities have more in common. Pinky G Rocket (talk) 21:39, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Category overhaul proposal

The overall categorization system for games of any kind (video games, tabletop RPGS, board games, and so on) is very messy with both this category and the category Category:Gaming & Role Playing, leading to editor confusing when handling categories for pages for topics and fandoms related to gaming of any kind. My proposal for a category overhaul is the following, with a focus on clarification and removing ambiguity from category names:

Pinky G Rocket (talk) 17:43, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

I think we should leave Category:Role Playing and Category:LARP as is. I'm not overly familiar with the gaming world, but I know what Role Playing and LARPing are from general media awareness, but I would have no idea what Play By Post Roleplay even is. Also, instead of getting rid of Category:Visual Novels why don't we just make is a sub-category of Video Games? -- Kingstoken (talk) 20:40, 11 August 2023 (UTC)
Wikipedia article on play-by-post roleplay. Roleplaying is too broad of a term to be useful as a category on its own in my opinion, as the term encompasses play-by-post roleplay, play-by-mail roleplay, tabletop RPGs, LARPing, various types of video games, and so on.
Disagree on keeping Visual Novels standalone, as what qualifies as a visual novel can be muddy and could open up the possibility to diffuse video games by genre/gameplay (e.g. platformer, metroidvania, etc.), which Fanlore doesn't do for other media categories.
I generally don't like using acronyms in category titles, as they may be opaque for people unfamiliar with the term, thus my suggestion on renaming the LARP category. Pinky G Rocket (talk) 21:59, 11 August 2023 (UTC)
I agree with renaming Category:Role Playing and Category:LARP, although "Play By Post" may not be what makes sense to most people currently involved in, sigh, play-by-post RP. ("Forum RP" might be better, even though a lot of it happens in chatrooms these days.) LARP should include a redirect; Role Playing should get a disambig page.
I don't agree with getting rid of Visual Novel as a category, but I would like to think about & discuss subcategories of video games. I would like to be able to find different types of video games (when we have enough of them); this probably means a long discussion on Discord about what kinds currently exist and whether to group by content or interface type, or some variant of both. (Not all VNs are dating sims; not all dating sims are VNs... but there's a whole lot of overlap.) - Elf (talk) 22:31, 12 August 2023 (UTC)
Naming it Forum RP is fine; we don't have to strictly use what Wikipedia does, My priority in category names is removing ambiguity and providing clarity, and thus I want to use a term that's a bit more concrete than 'roleplaying' standalone and/or internet roleplay.
One of my issues with the visual novel category is that if we decide to go all the way with diffusing video games by genre/gameplay/interface, etc. it opens up a whole can of worms on if we should diffuse other types of fandoms on Fanlore by similar metrics, such as movies, television shows, etc. I am not opposed to diffusion in general (my edit history should make that clear) but I know other Fanlore editors have been opposed to diffusing media/medium categories by genre or other categorization systems, thus my hesitation on it.
Agree with the redirect and disambig, assuming you are talking about the articles and not the categories. (Namely, I'm not sure how a disambig will apply to a category) Pinky G Rocket (talk) 23:01, 12 August 2023 (UTC)
I'll weigh in on the topic of Play by Post/Email since that's what I have the most experience with. I do agree that just "roleplaying" is way too broad, but I'm personally not sure if there's much value in splitting up post (i.e. forum-based) RP and email RP. Is there a difference in fan culture among these? For instance, is there an expectation in Play-by-Post that people answer more quickly? Or does Play-by-email result in longer posts? For me personally having done both, the difference is just what communication method you use, and many times it bleeds over -- two characters might do a side story over email or IM and then post the "logs" to the forum, for instance. Or, you used to be able to find many threads on more forums like Gaia Online advertising/seeking folks for one-on-one email RP.
Also, "Fan Tabletop RPGs" vs "Tabletop RPG Fandoms" sound pretty similar -- I can see them getting mixed up. Maybe we could use "Fan-made Tabletop RPGs" for the former? -- Mokuroh (talk) 22:36, 12 August 2023 (UTC)
The more I think about it, "Chat Roleplay" might be the best way to make it clear what it is, to both current players and outsiders, and the page can mention that it was previously known as PBP roleplay included both email and forum posting before chat programs were readily available. - Elf (talk) 22:46, 12 August 2023 (UTC)
'Fanmade Tabletop RPGs' sounds good to me.
To be clear, I don't know the differences between play-by-post/play-by-email, thus why I didn't suggest a merge request. Rossi might be able to provide more informed input on the topic, since they are the one that made the category. Pinky G Rocket (talk) 23:01, 12 August 2023 (UTC)
The main difference, that I understand, is that play-by-post includes IC journal threads, where characters interact as people would on a journal system (for example, this post: from X-Project). Play-by-email/forums/chat is when players write third party narratives, taking turns writing their characters, and then the log is posted as one document. If that's not correct, I'm fine with any proposals to edit. Rossi (talk) 23:26, 12 August 2023 (UTC)
... I can't believe I forgot about journal-based RP (and I used to do them, too!) Sorry, I am going to chalk this up to a) my brain being tired, and b) the ambiguity in the word "post" (a form post? a journal post? who knows?). Yeah, I would say journal-based RP is a bit of a different beast than forum RP, so I would want different pages. I think all of this kind of highlights how the "play-by-[whatever]" terminology is not always clear? For instance, the most last time I heard the term "play-by-post" in the wild was regarding groups that would conduct tabletop RPG sessions (the kind with dice-rolling) via a forum/email exchange. I don't think I've ever seen it applied to the more narrative-type roleplaying that we're talking about here. --Mokuroh (talk) 16:30, 13 August 2023 (UTC)
My experiences with forum, email, and chat roleplay lead me to think the main difference is just time: email-based often encouraged long-ish posts and had complex topics; forum had some description and some dialogue; chat gets single-line exchanges. This was from the constraints of the medium - pbem dated back to when some people did roleplay by snail mail; of course you would put pages worth of content in a single post because it'd be days or weeks before you got a reply. (Email probably wasn't weeks, but pbem was before everyone was online; people might have metered internet and limited time to connect.)
The differences in the fandom cultures involved were very much based on the individual fandom and social group. Some had strict rules; some were "just say anything"; some had specific game events with a gamemaster/referee; some were freeform; some were "anyone can jump in anytime"; some had memberships and trial periods and all that. This applied to all of them - I've seen Discord RP chats with application procedures to play various characters. (And other Discord RPs that are "hey I wanna play character X getting it on with character Y; who wants to play the other part? DM me.")
It'd be very nice if we could come up with some kind of label that covers all of them, with the option of subcategories for email/forum/chat roleplay. - Elf (talk) 01:18, 13 August 2023 (UTC)
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