Talk:Stitch/Archive
| This talk page is currently protected from editing as it is archived. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Query
Hey, is there some reason that the references to Stitch's professional name [redacted] were removed, along with references to this article [link removed] where the two names are clearly connected ? [quote from link redacted] --Assassin J (talk) 00:50, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
- Given that they said on their Twitter as recently as today that they don't want that name on this page, that seems like a direct violation of the Outing policy, which is likely why it was removed. --Elumination (talk) 23:50, 8 February 2022 (UTC)
Concerns about the over reliance on fandom fail anon threads and comments as "sources"
The controversy section of this page relies much too heavily on threads from fandomfail, which makes many of the claims seem like unsubstantiated rumors made by a very small group of people on one specific site. This pattern calls into question many of the claims made in the controversy section and how widespread and verified they truly are. User:Queerdo 15:36, 8 February 2022 (UTC)
- Queerdo, would it be better to remove the fandomfail commentary links and only link the tweets directly from the author? I was unsure what to do there, since I wanted to make sure there was actual sourcing for people having opinions about it. — Schnikeys (talk) 20:55, 8 February 2022 (UTC)
- There should now be about only 7 fandom fail anon used as references, and I reviewed them in order to directly include reasonable quotes from them (such as anons just stating that they vaguely disagreed). Otherwise, criticism from Twitter has been used so that FFA isn't the only or main source of criticism, which will give it a more varied commentary. Other comments were derived directly from the comments on her articles. Patchlamb (talk) 02:08, 10 February 2022 (UTC)
Temporary page protection
Hi all,
We have temporarily locked the page to editing by admins and gardeners while the PPOV issues are addressed. We encourage everyone to discuss issues associated with this page here on the Talk page, suggest topics for inclusion and share sources; however, we want to make sure that the page is rebalanced with care and that edits to rectify the issues don't clash with each other. Thank you to everyone who is contributing to improvements on this page.
enchantedsleeper (talk) 21:15, 8 February 2022 (UTC)
- hi, it's been more than a year since this page was locked. it still needs expansion and several of the edits that i had suggested for the Interviews section have been ignored. can we reopen this page for editing? or, alternately, can i work with someone to provide content that they can review and add? i'm very happy to collaborate with others on this. Fiercynn (talk) 01:05, 3 May 2023 (UTC)
- thank you, appreciate that! you mentioned workshopping major changes in the talk page - is it okay to add some smaller things such as a list of links to Stitch's major works (without commentary), or some reorganization of existing content, or adding sources, without workshopping it here? Fiercynn (talk) 23:32, 13 May 2023 (UTC)
- When it's related to fandom, go ahead. I think links to major works are useful, especially in the example of a fan-turned-pro type of thing, as long as it's not overwhelming. Overall we want to focus on the fannish stuff, but context for fannish content is important as well, and non-fannish achievements can provide that. There's a discussion further down in this talk page that's about the interviews that's going on which is probably the place to check in on that -- FBV (talk) 23:46, 17 May 2023 (UTC)
PPOV
Do you think that one way to work on the PPOV issues in this article would be to elaborate more on Stitch's writing? I know that there are several Fanlore pages dedicated to their essays already, but perhaps some kind of summary section for the most important works so that the bulk of the article isn't just the "Controversy" section. And then if there is any discussion of their essays and articles, that could go in a "Discussion" section. However, I am not sure where to find documentation of discussion of Stitch's works specifically. But if such discussion (especially non-anon) could be sourced, I think this could make the article both have more informative content and a more plural point of view. Canard (talk) 23:27, 8 February 2022 (UTC)
- Yes to more emphasis on their work. There is already a "Notable Fanworks" section on the page, but I think this could be renamed "Notable Works" and perhaps could summarise some key points in addition to the titles of works.
- There may be article responses to be found on Twitter? --enchantedsleeper (talk) 23:35, 8 February 2022 (UTC)
- I really like those ideas. The soon-to-be Notable Works section is mostly a list of the works that already have pages of their own on Fanlore. I think additional works would be useful too, as when creating this page i just pulled in all the works that had Fanlore pages, and I was hoping people would add additional works that were important to them, or more recent.
- On where to find discussion, fan comments can come from anywhere fans are discussing a topic publicly. For Stitch's writing, you can pull comments from publicly available posts on twitter, tumblr, reddit, dreamwidth etc. Also comments from podcasts or Youtube videos. Fansplaining might be a good option for comments as I know they've interviewed Stitch and the page could benefit from (publicly available) comments about her experiences in fandom. --Auntags (talk) 00:49, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
- IMO, putting Stitch's actual works at the top of the page and expanding on their themes, rather than starting with the detailed "Controversy" section and then simply listing Stitch's essays like a sort of supplemental "further reading" list, would also help bring the focus to their achievements. -- Greedy dancer (talk) 11:52, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
Stitch's fic
Could we add a bit more on the actual fic Stitch has written? There's original fiction, and fanfic for Star Wars, Black Panther, James Bond and DC Comics on her website (I believe Stitch recently commented that she accidentally deleted her work from AO3, rather than it being for any more potentially controversial reason). Maybe a mention of some of the fandoms she has talked about being into (Star Wars, James Bond, Marvel, DC, Mobile Suit Gundam Wing) and some of what she ships (e.g. Finnpoe, Alucard/Trevor/Sypha, Symbrock, Lotura)? After all, Stitch is a fan who writes, reads and recs fic, as well as someone who writes about racism in fandom. Not mentioning this has the effect of making her seem like a hostile outsider to the fandoms she critiques. EvilToTheCore13 (talk) 07:07, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
- I went ahead and added a number of her fanworks to the "Example Fanworks" section! Fiercynn (talk) 20:28, 17 June 2023 (UTC)
Quote
The quote from Stitch's bio in the main segment is not on the site now. Perhaps an archived link should replace the current one? Sobqjmv sphinx (talk) 01:41, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
- Thank you so much for alerting us to this, Sobqjmv sphinx! I updated the citation template to use a WayBack archive url from February, which looked like about when the quote was accessed. I’m wondering if we should maybe find a different quote since they’ve removed it from their page at this point? But at least the link is updated. Joanna R (talk) 16:25, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
- Can we use this quote from the current About page on their website?
- I speak for myself, but I’m backed up by two decades of life in online fandom and over a decade of watching fans defend and promote racism in queer/feminist fandom spaces. If you use can my words to help explain what you’re going through in fandom as a fan of color, I love that for you. I’m here for you. You aren’t alone and I will do my best to support you in these trying, super racist times.
- - Fiercynn (talk) 20:31, 17 June 2023 (UTC)
- This looks like it was updated - the quote in the "top" section of this Fanlore page matches the About quote currently on Stitch's Media Mix, so I'm going to move this section to the Archive Talk page as resolved. If you want me to move it back here for more discussion, leave a comment in the section where we talk about what sections to Archive for beginner-friendliness! Joanna R (talk) 19:39, 29 July 2023 (UTC)
Rearranging this Talk page for newcomer-friendliness?
Hello! So I've been thinking about the length of this Talk page, and although it's great that we've had a lot of productive discussion here about improving Stitch's page, I'm worried that the length and density of discussions could be offputting for anyone new (either to this page or to wiki editing in general) who might want to jump in and add thoughts, as it's not totally clear which discussions are 'concluded' and which are ongoing, or where one would add relevant comments related to the current version of the page.
One option is to 'archive' some discussions at a subpage (Talk:Stitch/Archive, it wouldn't involve anything more sophisticated than creating a subpage and cut-and-pasting some of the discussion threads there, and then linking back to the subpage from the main Talk page), though some of them it may be beneficial to keep on the page in case any new discussions retread the same ground, so we know what we've already covered. But if there are discussions that are obviously not relevant to the page's current version and aren't likely to become so again, they could feasibly be moved?
Another option (or an additional option) would be to simply reorder the discussions so that the most recent one(s) are at the top, though this is counter to the usual Talk page organisation, but it might make it easier to find and add to them. Or we could keep a manual list of discussions that are still 'open' and put it at the top for newcomers - a little more labour-intensive, but not impractically so.
Or maybe there's another possibility I haven't thought of here. Any thoughts? --enchantedsleeper (talk) 23:16, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
- I personally would love for some of this to be archived so that the most relevant pieces are left! It's definitely gotten quite long and for a relatively new fanlore editor like myself, it's been confusing sometimes haha. Fiercynn (talk) 23:41, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
- +1 to moving some of the discussion to an archive page. Per enchantedsleeper's second suggestion, I'd prefer a manual list of discussions that are open at the top - if we just put new ones on top, we may miss anything where the parent thread is from a while ago but discussion is still ongoing or recently renewed. Eskici (talk) 03:20, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
- +1 to both enchantedsleeper and Eskici, and I'm wiling to do the work of looking through older conversations to figure out what applied to previous iterations of the page and moving that into an /archive, then doing a tiny bit of re-ordering (or at least some sort of quick link-overview at the top) of the Talk page to what's still ongoing. I'll aim to do it in a couple-few days if no objection. Joanna R (talk) 18:08, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
- +1 Also agree! I think even to experienced editors who want to help this talk page can come off as long and intimidating. If archived, I think adding a section to the cleared talk page with bullet points about the most important discussions from the archived page would be great, just to make sure nothing is lost to editors new to the page. Patchlamb (talk) 19:46, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
- +1 I'm going to create that archive page and move one or two sections there. More can be added later! I'm also going to move the ID protection section to the top of this page --Auntags (talk) 09:49, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
- Done. I only moved sections that I'm 99% certain are fully resolved. (Correct me if I'm wrong - there were more than 1/2 pages added to the Archive subpage) I think there are other sections here which could be archived if editors are in agreement that the discussions are no longer relevant to the current page. --Auntags (talk) 10:02, 23 July 2023 (UTC)