Talk:Sam/Dean

Should this be a subpage of Supernatural?

I agree. This should probably be a subpage of Supernaturl or even redirect to Sam/Dean. Other cutesy pairing names are all redirects to the proper pairing pages. --Kyuuketsukirui 04:56, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Since its been moved to a subpage, should it lose the glossary formatting?--Esther a 23:43, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Good catch. I swapped it out for the pairing format. --rache 00:13, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

"Wincest" is also apparently used to mean "win+incest" in some circles? I've never seen the term outside of SPN fandom, but there's a discussion going on regarding the term at fanficrants (the post is members only). --Anenko 17:48, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

I come mostly from anime/manga fandom. I see "wincest" used as a synonym for "incest" or "twincest" enough that I think it warrants the Wincest page being a disambiguation page. For instance, "incest is wincest" and "twincest is wincest" aren't uncommon phrases, and on image boards like 4chan when someone asks for "wincest" they're probably not asking for Sam/Dean. I'm not quite sure how to do this since the Wincest talk page redirects to the Supernatural/Sam/Dean talk page, so I assume they're still linked someway and need to be unlinked first. I'll put up a notice to the fanlore gardeners here. -- Kylara 02:28, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

You can unlink them yourself if you want to rewrite the Wincest entry. When you are redirected, at the top of the page is a link indicating where you came from. When you click on that link, you get to the page without being redirected, and can edit normally there and remove the redirect.--RatCreature 09:30, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Oh, I see. I didn't realize the Talk page needed to be edited like a regular page to remove the redirect. Thanks. I've edited Wincest to be a disambiguation page and removed the redirect from the Talk page as well. I'm removing the Attention Gardeners tag now. -- Kylara 01:32, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

Wincest

I moved part of the article here because I don't want it to get lost. There was originally a glossary page for "Wincest" and I think this fits indeed better on a glossary page because it includes pairings like Dean/John and Sam/John as well. Maybe it could become a glossary page again? Something like Wincest (Supernatural glossary term)? Or maybe it can later be merged again with the article but right now it sets up a structure that doesn't seem to work so well for the page. --Doro 22:48, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Wincest is the vernacular term used by Supernatural fans to describe slash relationships between the fictional Winchester family. By and large it is used to describe the Sam/Dean (fraternal slash) relationship but some argue that technically it applies to John/his sons also. That may also be called "daddycest" however. Wincest represents approximately 30.63% of writing in the Supernatural fandom of which

• Sam/Dean = 29.37%
• Dean/John = 0.96%
• Sam/John = 0.29%

image placement mucked up

I added some stuff to the page, but now I can't get the manip image that used to be towards the end of the first main section to go back there without mucking up the text placement. (And I'm not sure the quote I added is in the right/optimal place on the page?) Help please from someone who knows how to make images on the wikipages behave? Many thanks... --Sk 03:08, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

I think the image placement looks fine - at least on my screen.--Morgandawn 06:39, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Thanks -- I also moved it down a tiny bit more and double-checked in another browser; should be/hope it's okay now. --Sk 08:45, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

romeo & juliet comparison looks like a meta post

The section comparing Sam/Dean to Romeo & Juliet looks like a meta essay and I don't think it belongs here. If people have written meta/had discussion threads comparing Sam/Dean to Romeo & Juliet then those could be linked from here, but Fanlore is not supposed to be a ship manifesto or a personal blogging platform.--aethel (talk) 22:36, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

I agree. These recently added sections need to have been a link to something, not blocks of commentary within the page. --MPH (talk) 22:49, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

Perhaps make a separate meta post? But I agree we need linkage and lots of formatting. I found only one link: http://www.buddytv.com/articles/supernatural/supernatural-recap-a-tragic-ro-42121.aspx MeeDee (talk) 22:55, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

I reverted BrokenDestiny23's edits to the page. Apart from the inappropriate meta digression, they were only repeating what was already on the page, just more enthusiastically. If someone wants to take a look at their edits and see if anything else should be added back, that would be good. Finding a good quote of a fan rhapsodizing about Sam and Dean's epic love might help the page. Meanwhile, I found some Romeo/Juliet commentary: ibelieveinthelittletreetopper.--aethel (talk) 23:55, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

Other Wincest meta resources? Essays on Wincest, spnstoryfinders, super-wiki--aethel (talk) 00:28, 28 October 2015 (UTC) ETA, comparing Dean to Romeo.--aethel (talk) 00:29, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

weecest

Weecest is currently a redirect--make it its own glossary page? meanwhile, someone on tumblr contests the definition here.[1]--aethel (talk) 23:12, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

Well I guess I'm in this fandom now, so I made the wee!cest page.--aethel (talk) 22:28, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

examples out of date

Most of the fanart examples are dead links that are not on Wayback. Does anyone have alternate links? Are there other fanart examples we could add?--aethel (talk) 03:40, 2 November 2018 (UTC)

Renaming the page

Why was this page moved? I don‘t see any discussion about it in the talk page. --Doro (talk) 21:18, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

The edit summary states it was moved to be more consistent with other SPN pairing pages, but I'd just as soon move e.g. Castiel/Gabriel/Dean Winchester/Sam Winchester to Dean/Sam/Castiel/Gabriel as it seems much less clunky. --sparc 21:47, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

I'm the one that renamed it, basically every other relationship page in Category:Supernatural Relationships was using full names, with Sam/Dean being the major exception, I just wanted to keep things consistent, I didn't mean to cause any waves -- Kingstoken (talk) 00:04, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

Consistency is not really an issue. It's important to document fandom the way it is or was. Supernatural fandom is older than AO3 naming conventions. --Doro (talk) 16:53, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

Historical perspective

I think this page could use more history, and highlight dates more, given that the fandom has changed so much over time. I updated one part that mentioned fan events excluding not just wincest, but anyone who shipped wincest. Rules against people who create content vs. rules against the content seems like a very new phenomenon in my experience, but maybe it has a longer history than I'm aware of? The examples were all from 2021. I think I've seen this kind of rule recently in zine projects in other fandoms.--aethel (talk) 01:44, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

I think a more detailed history section would be great, however I think getting exact (or even approximate) dates might be tricky, because this fandom has moved platforms a couple of times. I think you're right about excluding creators from challenges is a more recent thing. Excluding wincest content from some challenges I think has been going on for awhile, but excluding creators that happen to like Wincest is a very new phenomena. It would be interesting to know if these event mods are also Destiel shippers, because that could tie in with the ship war, although it might just be a purity culture thing. -- Kingstoken (talk) 02:24, 8 February 2022 (UTC)