Talk:Science Fiction Fandom

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SFF can stand for Science Fiction Fandom, or for Science Fiction (and) Fantasy -- as far as I can tell on the web, people use SFF more usually to mean Science Fiction (and) Fantasy. If you look at the article, the writer(s) have used the phrase "SFF fandom" more than once. So, I think this article should be moved to Science Fiction & Fantasy fandom (and then "SFF fandom" should be explicitely defined as Science Fiction & Fantasy fandom.)--Sherrold 23:42, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

SFF as "Science Fiction and Fantasy" is a genre designation or the magazine for short stories. I've heard of "science fiction fandom", but never "science fiction and fantasy fandom"; if it's now called the latter, it wasn't always. I haven't followed the developments of this fandom, but I used to read a lot of "golden age" sf, and they were all about the "hard science fiction" and "speculative fiction" and generally being as accurate as possible with the science elements of their fiction. And I'm pretty sure they called it SF fandom. So, I'd vote against renaming the page, but if someone's got more info about who uses "SFF fandom", they should add it here!--Aethel 17:04, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
I googled SFF--nothing turns up that explicitly defines SFF as an acronym for Science Fiction Fandom. Wikipedia doesn't make this connection either. So, should "SFF" be appearing in this article?--Aethel 05:14, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
I'm going to change it. I've never seen SFF used this way, either. --Greer Watson 15:42, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

article needs love

I think there's more content on Fanlore already about sf conventions that could be linked or summarized here. It would also be good if someone could describe the current scope of the fandom, not just what people were doing before 1966. --æþel 03:51, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

I copied a paragraph over from the Convention page for the convention section. More things I'd like to see, but can't add myself: more name dropping, mention more sf cons (could turn into a separate List of Science Fiction Conventions page eventually), intro paragraph that explains the current scope of SF fandom (the current intro belongs in the History section, but I don't want to move it until we've got some text to put there).--æþel 03:07, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
Another issue to consider: this page follows the history as given by Wikipedia and various American sources; it doesn't specify when or how fandom began in countries other than the Unites States and languages other than English. I found some mentions of SF fandom in Sweden[1] dating to the 1950s, Finland in the 1970s[2][3], and this website dates U.K. fandom to 1930. The title of this book suggests Australian fandom dates to 1935[4].--æþel 23:15, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

Fannish History

I just read over this article and my immediate reaction boils down to "where do I begin"? For one thing, the problem with Star Trek was primarily cultural - do recall that Science Fiction/Scientifiction fandom had been around in the US for 30 some years when Star Trek came along, thus the folks who started in their teens and stayed with it - and there were many - were now in their 40s or so and had spent all of that intervening time participating in and forming the nature OF science fiction fandom. There's a stack of books listed (without, alas links) in Wikipedia some of which are still in print - I'll add references to them to this article once I find out which. Note that most of these are memoirs of individuals, and Sam Moskowitz's The Immortal Storm in particular, which treats mostly of early fandom in New York City is essentially a tempest in a teapot as told from within the teapot, in an unfortunately highly turgid style which manages somehow to still contain the general drama of it all. Still interesting though, especially if you compare it with Damon Knight's The Futurians.

The point, though, is that it was there, had BEEN there for many years, saw itself as serious business, and frequently had trouble getting outsiders to differentiate between it and the sort of fandom that consists of watching professionals do things. SF fans wrote fanzines, they also wrote for prozines. Some SF fans were professional agents, or editors. You might well start out writing in fanzines, and keep right on doing so even when you broke into professional print. And you were NOT involved in "That Buck Rogers Stuff"; that was a putdown. OK, after years of - someone discovers fandom, finds it to their liking, attends meetings, learns the language and the customs, follows the advice of the fen already therein on such things as how to get published professionally, and joins the culture... Bit of a shock when an entire shower of neofen half your age suddenly come pouring in insisting on remaking all the rules and now that everybody's forgotten Buck Rogers bent on labeling your own fandom as That Star Trek Stuff to the world at large. 'Twas plenty amusing at the time I must confess - for one thing the main reason ST was so important was not the costuming or the special effects, such as they were, it was the STORIES. Each episode had a plot that was interesting, and made you think. Mostly because Roddenberry had the sense to hire actual science fiction writers to do the scripts, and somehow this didn't terrify the producers into full retreat in horror at the thought that there was something "intellectual" that would keep people from watching the show. Well, sorta - but that story is well known and probably in the ST entry. In any case, some of those scripts were essentially extant sf tales with the serial numbers rubbed off. Same Good Old Stuff.

So my question to you all is this - how much of this should I put on here, and how much on the Star Trek page? --Kay Shapero 07:13, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

This sounds FASCINATING, Kay. I would love to hear more about all of this on both pages. I don't know about what specifically should go where, but I think it's okay if some info is duplicated, since there is a lot of overlap. -- Liviapenn 09:12, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
I'd love a detailed account of science fiction fandom before & after the advent of Star Trek. Recently, in writing about the history of Tolkien fandom, which originally grew out of sf fandom, it's become obvious that Fanlore barely touches on this huge subject. Espresso Addict 11:35, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
I think "where do I begin?" is pretty much the reaction of many, and one reason why this page/related topics is so sadly stubby. The topic is vast -- getting even the basics is daunting. I've been adding things to Fanlore about what I know (pre-internet Western media fandom), and many times those things have overlap with "traditional" science fiction fandom. But my knowledge is sparse with the latter. I'd be more than happy to support any work you do, Kay Shapero! --Mrs. Potato Head 12:43, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
I asked on IAFA-L, and Todd Mason suggests the following sources:
- (Frederick Pohl's blog)
- (MIMOSA, fanzine about fannish history from the past 20 years or so)
He also suggests asking for help on such lists as Timebinders, FmzFen, InTheBar or TruFen --Greer Watson 16:20, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
Also Richard West suggests looking at the Fancyclopedia ( --Greer Watson 00:53, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
I agree with Richard West - in fact I've already added a link to Fancy 3 on the page just before coming here for the discussion. :) --Kay Shapero 01:25, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
We should decide early on just how much detail needs to appear on these pages, and how much can be safely left to the links. There is an awful lot of information out there given the age and general literary focus of the fandom. --Kay Shapero 01:25, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
Links are, sadly, never safe, so as much summarizing and explanations, the better. It's overwhelming, I know, but even just starting somewhere is progress. --Mrs. Potato Head 01:39, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
Would it help to start a Timeline of Science Fiction Fandom page? I tried it for Harry Potter so I could at least line up wikilinks to pages I thought should exist. You can see more examples in Category:Chronology. Also, regarding the fascinating perspective on media fandom/star trek vs. sf fandom, I think it might be easier to create a separate page just on that conflict/intersection, since right now there are paragraphs on the topic spread across multiple wiki pages. See Talk:Media_Fandom.--æþel 02:08, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
A timeline is, I think, always a super start. It creates a skeleton to which to add flesh. --Mrs. Potato Head 02:15, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
A timeline is at least a start, and a good place to put links. --Mrs. Potato Head (talk) 00:24, 20 December 2013 (UTC)
Kay, thank you for saying all these things -- I came into this page in order to say some of them. You said it much better than I ever could, with many more details. All I can add is that I have an article from Bob Sourk's Destiny (1975) which clearly describes the problem between SF fans and "Star Trek type" fans as one of perceived maturity and attitude, not gender.
The Immortal Storm was referenced in a Robert Bloch short story, "A Way of Life", where science fiction fandom is the only human organization left on earth after the nuclear holocaust, and civilization rebuilds itself based on that.... --KTJ (talk) 17:58, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
I rearranged some stuff and started two new pages: Science Fiction Fandom vs. Media Fandom and Timeline of Science Fiction Fandom. I hope this helps.--æþel (talk) 05:35, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

zine section

On this page Caveat Emptor is listed as a 1950s sf zine, but is linked to a fanlore page for a 1991 Blake's 7 slash fic. Zinewiki does not have a listing for an SF zine of this title. Fancyclopedia has a stub for an apazine called Caveat Lector. Does anyone have more information on this?--aethel (talk) 00:54, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

Caveat Emptor, editor John Thiel, contributors Marian Zimmer Bradley, Bob Farnham, Forrest J. Ackerman, Dan Adkins, Robert E. Gilbert, William Rotsler, Glenn King, John Stieglitz, Dan Reddix, mimeographed, dated 1955, first issue contains a story by the editor called "The House that Jack Built" about a man dwelling on an asteroid.--John Thiel 30 April 2018

Also, there is a new page, Science Fiction Fanzines. Should this section be moved there?--aethel (talk) 00:56, 30 April 2018 (UTC)