Talk:Ministry of Magic (Harry Potter)
Discussion from Talk:Courtroom/Legal drama/thriller
For me, a "thriller" is very different from a "courtroom/legal drama." 24 or the Bourne movies are thrillers -- Law & Order, e.g., is a courtroom drama. I don't consider them as either synonymous or as subgenres of each other, so I'm wary of including sweeping definitional statements here. (And again, using the slash in the title is problematic, as it creates subpages of nonexistent pages.) I think this needs some considering. -Melina 00:10, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
- Yeah, I agree, "thriller" isn't synonymous with "courtroom/legal drama," and courtroom drama isn't a subset of "thriller." I'd probably go with "courtroom drama" to avoid creating a subpage, but I'm wondering about including this as a glossary term, because I haven't ever actually seen it used as a fic label (as opposed to a label for canon sources). It's possible that I'm just not looking in the right places, though -- are there some examples of fic headers or meta that use this as a fannish term?--Penknife 01:11, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
- I've never seen it as fanfic label either, and the linked example doesn't use it in its header.--Ratcreature 01:23, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
- ETA: googling showed me "courtroom drama" used as labels in HP fic summaries though: http://www.fanfiction.net/u/983261/CatWriter http://www.silververse.net/hp/hp.htm --Ratcreature 01:29, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
- Even if it's used as an HP fic label, it seems to me that it is sort of self-defined, and unless there's something more to a general, non-HP definition -- well, as it is, I'm not sure it's not especially helpful. As far as the HP usage goes, I think all of these glossary entries added today (thriller, political, etc.) could easily be combined onto a single HP subpage called "Fiction subgenres" or something. -Melina 01:36, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
- Yeah, it would be really helpful if this had a name in HP like the Stargate_Atlantis/Sentient_Atlantis has in SGA and such, so all these variants of legal and political intrigue stories could be compiled into one entry giving an overview of how fandom expands on the books. Maybe it could be named "Wizarding Politics" or something and then put up as HP subpage?--Ratcreature 15:18, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
- Even if it's used as an HP fic label, it seems to me that it is sort of self-defined, and unless there's something more to a general, non-HP definition -- well, as it is, I'm not sure it's not especially helpful. As far as the HP usage goes, I think all of these glossary entries added today (thriller, political, etc.) could easily be combined onto a single HP subpage called "Fiction subgenres" or something. -Melina 01:36, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
- That sounds like a good idea, RC -- I will move this page to an HP subpage with that name, then the relevant text from the other entries can be added in. - Melina 18:01, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
I defer.
Do with these as you like. Certainly I've no objection to the use of a dash rather than a slash; you may wish to edit the subcategory listing for Detective/Noir as well, as, with its hierarchy level, it is a potent source of just such confusions, ahem.
As stubs, these are there for anyone to improve them as they wish. That includes whatever merging or revision is wanted. It really doesn't much matter to me. I'm going to have some tea, biscuits, and a nice lie-down; you lot are in charge. --Wemyss 14:49, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
- There is no "subcategory listing" that I can find for Detective/Noir? It's showing up red in the links. If I'm not seeing what you think I should be seeing, please be more specific? - Melina 18:01, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
- I'm still confused because I'm not seeing any page at either Noir/Detective or Detective/Noir... I agree that if there is such a page, it should be renamed, but all I'm seeing are red links? - Melina 19:06, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
- OH! Sorry -- it's in the story tropes list. --Arduinna 19:13, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
- The Noir/Detective AU page could easily be called "Noir Detective AU" or even "Noir AU" if anyone wanted to create it. I think it's best to avoid pages with slashes for all hierarchy awkwardness unless it is really part of a very common fannish term like with Hurt/Comfort or all the pairing pages. That said I'm still fairly dubious about some of those "story trope" links, like I said on that talk page, because some of the generic genre terms there like "action-adventure" etc. don't seem to fit well with the site scheme. Though maybe I'm just not imaginative enough, I guess that article could contain an overview of action adventure fanfic if someone wanted to research that or something.--Ratcreature 19:54, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
- OH! Sorry -- it's in the story tropes list. --Arduinna 19:13, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
- RC, I agree, and I think potential links with slashes in them should be edited to get rid of them wherever that's practical (pairing names and extremely common terms excepted). I'll so some poking around on the tropes page, but anyone with better wording ideas should feel free to jump in. -- Melina 20:10, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
New combined page
This still needs a lot of work, and the name may not be right, but here is the combined page. Melina 18:01, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
Page Name/Scope?
I think that the information here could be incorporated into a page about the Ministry of Magic in fanworks, but I'm not sure what it should be called. The Draco/Hermione page uses the term "Ministryfic" (analogous to Aurorfic) but as far as I can tell it's used very rarely and seems somewhat limiting. We could just have a page called Ministry of Magic (like Hogwarts and Malfoy Manor), or it could just stay here -- is "Wizarding Politics" a term actually used as a fic/genre label? --sparc 05:01, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
- I've actually never heard of "Wizarding Politics" and agree that we should have a Ministry of Magic page, which is often used in fanworks although not all of them actually name them "Ministryfic". I was actually thinking about moving this page to add/start the Ministry page, but I'm not sure, because I haven't actually seen these types of works, but then I wasn't looking for them. But I never stumbled upon them either. So I suggest combining the pages, or just reworking it I guess. --Harpie (talk) 03:34, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
- I think you can do whatever makes sense to you. If you look at the page history, you can see it was reworked to make it fit the scope of Fanlore. No one really knew how to fix it.--æþel (talk) 15:45, 23 August 2014 (UTC)
- I made the previous info a subsection of a new Ministry of Magic page, but it still needs a lot of work and possibly some restructuring. ----sparc 05:15, 25 August 2014 (UTC)