Talk:Manpain
About References
Sinead, I didn't include the names behind the quotes because it was my impression that that is what references are for. All the quotes are referenced and the proper credits are in the references. I didn't want to mess with your system, I just thought crediting someone twice for the same thing was unnecessary. Sorry! :) --Doro 22:30, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
- Oh, no, that's totally cool! I thought about that, too, and decided to leave them in because I wanted the commenters to be clearly credited (because this thing relies so heavily on the discussion people had on my LJ), even if people who read the article don't click on the reference links. I figured it was worth a little redundancy.--User:Sinead
Origin
Another possible origin of Manpain - OBSSE mailing list. One of the casting sides/scripts that Autumn Tysko would get her hands on included a description of Mulder's emotional state and "the pain of being a man." Thanks to Danielle/Ryo Sen, this morphed into man pain on the OBSSE mailing list. I was on OBSSE (jennyo/jennifer-oksana) and mimesere and I were friends back then, so that's how it probably moved from X-Files to other fandoms. Or at least one of the ways - I'm sure there were other OBSSE types who moved into slash. Would that be okay to add?
Discussion
I want to add excerpts of this post to the page but I'm not sure if it belongs in Fan Response, because that seems to be fandom reactions to manpain occurring in source material. Should there be another section for Discussion? – caes (talk) 04:12, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
- Love that post, and it should definitely be included on this page because it explains the difference between sympathy for a male character in pain and the writer's choices to create and display manpain. I agree that it maybe doesn't fit in the fan response section, a separate section is probably a better idea, but I am not sure what to call it. -- Kingstoken (talk) 11:19, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
On crediting Mimesere
The issue of anecdotally crediting Mimesere, without any citation, was raised on the featured article discussion page. Now, citation number 5 on this page does claim that mimesere may have originated the term, and I suspect that LJ post was written by the same editor who added the claim to this Fanlore page. Mimsere did comment on the post, but did not claim they were the originator.
There's also a comment on this talk page from jennifer-oksana, saying she was friends with mimesere and believes the term may have originated on a mailing list they were both on. So even if mimesere was not the originator, it feels to me like two different Fanlore editors believe she at least had a part in popularizing the term.
So, if we find a reference crediting mimesere and can add another citation, that would be great, but if not, is there enough information already on Fanlore to back up this anecdotal claim? Because it does say "originator or early adopter". --Auntags (talk) 21:30, 6 October 2022 (UTC)
- Unfortunately, there seems to be no archive of the original OBSSE mailing list entries of to cite the claim. mimesere either no longer is in the XF fandom or moved to other fandoms. "Your Sister in St. Scully - An Electronic Community of Female Fans" of The X-Files by Sarah R. Wakefield mentions that "The Abbey" uses the term for "the trauma of being a male", but doesn't credit a specific member for coining the term. -- WhatAreFrogs? (talk) 19:59, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
- Just realised that the LJ post where mimesere commented says outright, "I can start by offering this observation--I think mimesere might get the credit for first use of "manpain". Her LJ is the first place I saw it, anyway, years ago." To me, that is enough of a reference to show that they are anecdotally credited with originating it. In the page history, it looks like this reference used to be more directly attached to the line about mimesere originating it but has since been separated off which is why I didn't realise it might be a source.
- Though, one other curious thing is that Jenniferoksana's comment above implies someone called Ryo Sen was responsible for the specific wording: "Thanks to Danielle/Ryo Sen, this morphed into man pain on the OBSSE mailing list." (This is an X-files author: https://x-libris.xf-redux.com/book/revanche/ ) Should they also receive credit? --enchantedsleeper (talk) 22:06, 15 October 2022 (UTC)
- Maybe it would be best to mentioned both of them, since we are not a 100% sure who originated the term -- Kingstoken (talk) 22:20, 15 October 2022 (UTC)
- I have now added jenniferoksana's (which I think might be Jennifer-Oksana) origin from here as a quote (although it feels weird to use the revision history of a Fanlore talk page as a source, that might be first *lol*) -- WhatAreFrogs? (talk) 20:53, 16 October 2022 (UTC)
- Maybe it would be best to mentioned both of them, since we are not a 100% sure who originated the term -- Kingstoken (talk) 22:20, 15 October 2022 (UTC)
- Though, one other curious thing is that Jenniferoksana's comment above implies someone called Ryo Sen was responsible for the specific wording: "Thanks to Danielle/Ryo Sen, this morphed into man pain on the OBSSE mailing list." (This is an X-files author: https://x-libris.xf-redux.com/book/revanche/ ) Should they also receive credit? --enchantedsleeper (talk) 22:06, 15 October 2022 (UTC)