Talk:Blocking of AO3 in China

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Page Name

Apologies for the hastily-thought-up name for this page; I'm open to suggestions for changing it if anyone has a better idea. We may want to make it more time-specific (e.g. Chinese Government Blocking of AO3 on 29 February) as this page might otherwise be construed as a general page about threats to ban/block AO3 in China. (Which would also be a useful page to create. -- enchantedsleeper (talk) 10:38, 1 March 2020 (UTC)

relation to Untamed RPF fandom

I added some info to the The Untamed page, but I'm not sure whether it should all live here instead and just have a blurb on the other page. Here are the various tweets I've found on this subject:

Tumblr thread I was in trying to figure this out: https://aethel.tumblr.com/post/611403116767772672/i-teach-esl-and-one-of-my-chinese-students-told --aethel (talk) 16:18, 1 March 2020 (UTC)

Another data point: I heard about XZ fans reporting AO3 to the Chinese government before AO3 was actually blocked. So it's not a retroactive rumor at least. I'm guessing the Chinese government wouldn't actually admit to blocking AO3 or any other website, let alone why, so we'll never know for sure what the reason was?--aethel (talk) 16:28, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
ETA: According to this anon, the RPF wank started on weibo on February 26. I found references to it on twitter as early as February 27. But I'm also in EST timezone and I'm not sure what time exactly on February 29 AO3 became inaccessible in China. So while from the POV of non-Untamed RPF fans, AO3 block happened and then rumor circulated it was due to Untamed RPF, from the POV of Untamed RPF fans (especially in Chinese fandom), there was wank about reporting AO3 and then lo and behold a block happened QED. According to my understanding without being able to read Chinese or fully interpret timestamps.--aethel (talk) 16:57, 1 March 2020 (UTC)

More links:

I saw a screencapped translation of Xiao Zhan's official account's response, but now I can't find it. --aethel (talk) 19:03, 1 March 2020 (UTC)

More links:

--aethel (talk) 21:57, 1 March 2020 (UTC)

A week later and twitter is now a mess of Xiao Zhan related wank. I've been searching "ao3 reported" and "xz antis". Not sure what to do with what I'm seeing.

--aethel (talk) 07:30, 6 March 2020 (UTC)

anti what

I think the use of the term antis is confusing. From what I gather, in Chinese fandom, anti-fans are idol fans of a different idol who spread malicious gossip, etc. against the rival idol.[1] In this context, anti-fans didn't report AO3; fans of Xiao Zhan reported ao3, possibly because they thought of slash as anti-fan type behavior. And their reporting AO3 spurred anti-fan activity against Xiao Zhan by pro-AO3 fans (and probably other anti-fans along for the ride?). I think it's fine to say that Western onlookers characterized the fans who reported AO3 as antis, but I think we need to state that clearly and not just use Western terms to report on Chinese fan behavior. Otherwise it's not clear which group is accused of doing what.--aethel (talk) 03:07, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

I went ahead and updated the page.--aethel (talk) 07:05, 5 March 2020 (UTC)

Can this be confirmed?

While following the story I came across this vlog AO3 Being Blocked in China and Xiao Zhan - What Happened and as I don't speak/read Chinese I cannot confirm what's been reported here. Reports of one of the Xiao Zhan fans been "excommunicated" from fandom, and suicide notes and suicide attempts by fans and writers (possibly on both sides of the argument). Can anyone confirm this? Suicide notes were apparently posted on weibo. My jaw is on the floor! --Auntags (talk) 23:18, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

A lot of the points in that video I've seen made in other sources, but the suicide notes and the "excommunicated" bits I hadn't seen before. I did see fail_fandomanon talking about the suicide attempts, but they were probably getting their information from the youtube video. I don't see why AvenueX would lie about what she saw on weibo, but that's not confirmation that the suicide notes were real. They could be though. I linked some Chinese-language sources that maybe someone who reads Chinese could look at and get more out of than I got with Google Translate.--aethel (talk) 02:00, 4 March 2020 (UTC)
this article hits a lot of the same points as the video, including the bit about being expelled from the fandom.--aethel (talk) 03:05, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
Suicide attempt was real. The 'excommunication' thing is still mysterious, though I think there's some community/group/forum functionality on weibo and maybe that's what they mean?--aethel (talk) 15:38, 7 March 2020 (UTC)
Here’s the original post of the request for the expulsion, from someone who’s seemingly an organizer/operator of an influential fanclub of Xiao Zhan, on behalf of “herself and other Xiao Zhan fans who hadn’t made their stance known.” She specifically mentioned they wanted the fan(@巴南区小兔赞比) who had earlier appealed for the whole report thing to “resign from her position in management and hand back the access to admin,” so I’m not sure it’s the fandom that they were calling upon her to be expelled from in the statement, or the fanclub, or related social media accounts. I mean, although it's a common expression in Chinese to "expel" someone from the fandom but i don't think there is really a practical way to execute it...--djiange 16:41, 7 March 2020 (UTC)
Some additional sources of the suicide notes, an article on NetEase Entertainment presents the evidence of suicide attempts from both sides of the argument:
An apologist for Xiao Zhan posted on Weibo: “Please stop coming at Xiao Zhan, snowflakes. I’d pay my life for everything. Does that sound good to you, […]?” “[…], you don’t have to put on an act anymore. I’ll jump from here. No worries, I’ve only got such a few followers; they won’t trace you down, but you know you’re responsible for my death. Goodbye Internet.”
An AO3 user posted on Weibo on March 2nd: “This might be my last post. […] This is not revenge, but merely some words spoken in peace. Thank you. Please keep creating. Love will never die out. Creation will live all along.”
Someone posted a screenshot of two reposted suicide notes from some of the Xiao Zhan fans, and since the ops were pixelated in it they could come from the same person:
“You want to destroy the star I adore for years just because you can’t have him. Why don’t I destroy myself first? Not that there’s anything I’d yearn in this spring. Can’t sleep night after night, so that’s it.”
“This is my last post. I was born at 2:20 am. This is the best ending. Goodbye, My beloved Mr. Xiao.”
There are also false alarms from some of the Xiao Zhan fans and one of the ops was later arrested by the police in the name of public-order crime.--djiange 17:05, 7 March 2020 (UTC)
Thank you so much! I've updated the page. I ran the original apology through Google translate and it seems to say that she didn't expect this to impact other fandoms and that she hadn't been in contact with Xiao Zhan's PR team but her own industry friends(?). Can you confirm this?--aethel (talk) 03:32, 9 March 2020 (UTC)
The translation is generally accurate - "industry friends" is referred to Banan’s(the fan) personal friends from PR industry, and Banan also mentioned she had nothing to do with the fighting-antis group of Xiao Zhan (another "unofficial" fanclub) - though I doubt her independence of a third party which has connection with the PR team.
The screenshot of Xiao’s official weibo account reposting a post from the fanclub which Banan belonged to and asking people to follow the fanclub account in this post indicates that Xiao’s PR team not only knows about the existence of this fanclub but also has been in close cooperation with it.
According to the link attached with the post, the other two screenshots are chats between the former VP of the fanclub and her successor. After the blast the former VP insisted they should “act at Banan’s will” and they would “wait for Banan to wake up” and then decide how to react to the situation because they “respect Banan’s suggestions.” The op who seems to be a senior member(? if it’s a thing...) of the fanclub was pretty upset after communicating with the management and getting the same responses as the former VP’s: “If all you guys can do is just sitting there and waiting for the [PR team] to clean up the mess, then what’s the use of you bunch of shits? If it’s inappropriate for the fanclub to make a statement first, will waiting for the [PR team] to do it be better? The duty of the [PR team] is to protect and promote Xiao Zhan himself; it’s not to manage the fandom.”
Thus I believe even though Banan hadn’t made any contact with the PR team directly, her following actions (apology, deleting posts, etc.) were under their awareness and permission through the fanclub as an agency.
Btw the op in the second link mentioned "Banan lied"... not sure what it's referred to, I'll go check it out.--djiange 07:09, 9 March 2020 (UTC)
Sorry for the late update! It seems the accusation of lying levelled against Banan is just that she mentioned PR team in her earlier post while didn't clarify that they were actually her personal friends. The accusations were mainly from other fans, for they thought Banan's ambiguous remarks were in an effort to discredit Xiao himself. --djiange 13:54, 12 March 2020 (UTC)
No problem. Thanks for all the info! For the bit I wrote that says Xiao Zhan fans were claiming "they were the target of a smear campaign by anti-Xiao Zhan fans" is that an accurate characterization of the XZ fan counter-claim and is Banan's ambiguous remarks the source of their claim? *Also* am I right in thinking this post is a response from the fan club to the leak of the private chat between VPs? Interesting that they seem to close with a statement affirming their patriotism.--aethel (talk) 04:01, 13 March 2020 (UTC)
Yes the description itself is accurate but frankly I don’t think they came up with this idea because of Banan’s remarks... It mayhaps brought some more material for them to cook tho.
And the response is to the rumors spread on twitter by some of the xfx to win sympathy from the English-speaking world that Xiao was persecuted by the government for being queer - see that’s why I said above they didn’t really need a valid source to make a claim... smh - which is ironically on a parallel with the propaganda that the government has been distributing on the two sides of the GFW. Anything discussed over online involving politics, especially things like “persecution,” is intolerable for the government, so the fanclub had to reiterate that they would remain steadfast in its loyalty by disposing of the false accusation against the government and affirming their patriotism. It also reflects they know crystal clear how appalling this state apparatus is - the last thing they want is to be pushed onto the opposite side of it. Even if xfx like Banan “didn’t expect the impact” or there isn’t any “hard proof” that their reports resulted in the blocking yet, people behind this campaign were fully conscious of the iron fist of a totalitarian government could be used as a tool for them to purge the different voices which didn’t conform to the given rules. And Banan’s excuse only made it worse, for they borrowed the power from an uncontrollable Leviathan without considering the consequences.
(also tbh, fanclub as an extension of celeb’s PR team is always an elephant in the room in Chinese entertainment industry and that’s the main reason why the infuriated crowd are targeting at Xiao himself. That leak of the private chat didn’t really mean to change any existing views on the both sides; on the contrary it was used to prove that the fanclub should be blamed for it didn’t fulfill its role in publicity.)--djiange 18:15, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

Chinese fan reactions to the ban

Reactions of devastated fans personally affected doesn't seem quite appropriate under "General Commentary on the Block", but that header is vague enough that I don't know what does go under it. I found a few reactions by Chinese fans on Tumblr that could go somewhere:

translate screencap evidence?

Hey so I was thinking it would be nice to include an image of the screencap evidence (of the initial reporting of AO3) both as an example of what was circulated all over the place and for preserving in case all the other sources go down. Since I don't read Chinese, I don't feel comfortable choosing which screencap to upload without a translation handy. I'm also uncertain how definitive these screencaps are, because a lot of Xiao Zhan fans keep insisting that they didn't report AO3--is there room for interpretation in these screencaps, or are the fans just assuming they are photoshopped? I found a github account that is storing the screencap evidence. It would be great if someone could translate what Banan (巴南区小兔赞比) is saying here: [2] [3] (I gather "sq" is porn?) One of these supposedly has her instructing people on how to submit "real name" reports so that the government will take them more seriously? Probably the one with the gov.cn URL in it: https://github.com/Feb27HistoryMoment/XiaoZhanGate/blob/master/evidence0226/evidence0226.md Here's a writeup, but since it's in Chinese, it assumes the screencaps speak for themselves: https://ent.sina.com/gb/2020-03-01/doc-ifztzqwm4146219.shtml Alternatively, has a reliable third party put up a translation of these somewhere?--aethel (talk) 22:40, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

Hi, I did some translation of the two screencaps above, hope it helps! Yes, "sq" is porn, and the assumption about the "real name" part is also right.
Banan said in another post[4] in the writeup that they "didn't care about either underground publications or AO3," and they only wanted to "defend their rights and interests" because they believed "the reference to celebrities in porn fan-fiction is demeaning them and violating their right to reputation" so I guess these Xiao Zhan fans think what they were doing is to report the Weibo account of the author by attaching the AO3 link/screencap as an evidence of the author's misconduct and in that case it shouldn't be count as "directly report AO3."
The translation of [5]:
"Today here we speak, for not only ourselves, but also the entertainers whose rights and interests are harmed and dignity is trampled on.
Creative writing is free, but it does not mean that one's freedom should redeem by trampling on the dignity of another. Fan-fiction should stick to the bottom line! Your freedom of creation, freedom fo reading, freedom fo sharing, and freedom of entertainment are no higher than the dignity of an innocent natural person.
It is hurting others in the name of freedom to use the entertainer as the prototype, to appropriate the entertainer's name to create underage-prostitution-themed pornographic literature, and to spread it on a large scale on an open platform such as Weibo.
Due to the professional nature of the entertainers, they have indeed drawn more public attention than ordinary people and hence are supposed to bear the pressure that ordinary people do not have to bear, but this does not mean that the entertainer and their fans have to accept the vulgar underage-prostitution-themed pornographic literature based on the entertainer. This kind of behavior per se is an act that violates the right to reputation of the entertainer.
Moreover, this kind of behavior not only violates the right to reputation of the entertainer, but also pollutes the cyberspace and has a bad influence on a large number of young fans who lack judgment.
Freedom should have limits!"
The translation of [6]:
"Reporting through hotline works best.
The essence of this matter is that some people were knowingly breaking the law by creating【underage】-【prostitution】-themed【pornographic】 literature on an open platform such as Weibo. And with many verified users [with huge follower counts] helping recommend and spread, a lot of minors therefore have read the work. In this way, the toxic values ​​of 'getting profits through selling one's body' were circulated to the minors, which seriously affected their mental health and polluted the cyberspace.
Just repeat this when you make the call. Don't drag other stuff like celeb or whatnot into this."
(Sadly, haven't found any reliable third party translation so far :( --djiange 03:36, 16 May 2020 (UTC)
This is so useful, thank you! Although it seems that the Xiao Zhan fans' claim that they only reported weibo/the author is technically correct? or at least that's what Banan told people to report, but if the reports contained a lot of references to AO3 it could have been blocked due to their reports regardless? Seems like a messy situation all around. (But if they didn't intend to get AO3 taken down, what was their goal in reporting the author to the government? Did they want her arrested?) --aethel (talk) 23:55, 18 May 2020 (UTC)
Technically, the claim itself is correct or can't be proved incorrect for now, though I agree with the inference that the blocking had a rather strong connection with their reporting; the claim only makes their "murder" of AO3 "manslaughter" of AO3... No one really knows how this report system works, but speaking from experience, as long as something is brought into the government’s sight they are at a high risk of getting taken down, so the reports must have something to do with AO3 being blocked despite lack of hardcore evidences of the causality. Also this bred another theory among Xiao Zhan fans that AO3 was blocked because the government had detected a huge data flow coming towards AO3 as people kept flooding there to read the “vulgar” fanfic which Banan reported later. (I high doubt how "huge" this flow could be compared with other blocked major sites tho...)
Yeah I think they did want her arrested or something that matches the devastation. After all there was already some precedents that danmei/slash fiction writers were arrested due to their "pornographic" writings. (See part 3 in [7]) Banan said in a draft of the report [8] that the author and those who help distribute her work should “be legally liable for their behavior” but they didn’t take any justifiable legal action like suing her; they chose to report instead. Although “reporting illegal content to the government censors” is a legit thing in China, it means no fair trial or other basic rights that one is supposed to have when facing charges, so I believe they intended to go nasty by getting the government involved.--djiange 23:17, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
Thanks for your translations and your insights! I've added the information to the page. --aethel (talk) 19:23, 23 May 2020 (UTC)
You're welcome! Glad I could help <3--djiange 06:48, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

more to add?

I removed the "unfoldingsituation" tag since it's been almost five months. Related incidents have happened since then, but the main event is over. From what I gather, people are still mad at Xiao Zhan over the AO3 ban, as well as his PR team's handling of it after the fact. Some areas of the page that could be built out more: more detail on the cyberbullying (without doxxing anyone), where did Chinese fans go next? (if it's safe to say), more on fanworks reacting to the ban, a separate page on the fic that started it all (can anyone verify if the story as posted on AO3 is complete and deserves the M rating?). Do we know what happened to the fic writer? We may have to wait for an assessment of what the long-term impact of the ban was. (ETA other ideas: how other language communities besides English reacted. I saw some tweeting in Japanese and Thai?, for instance. Also if anyone could speak to the motive of Chinese Xiao Zhan fans spreading false information in English, that would be great. One person suggested to me they might be hoping he gets big internationally, but at present what the English speaking world thinks of him would have 0 economic impact, from what I understand.)--aethel (talk) 01:11, 19 July 2020 (UTC)

Is there any connection between this incident and the (new?) real name registration rule for authors of online literature? NPR seemed to think so, but then they also pronounced Xiao Zhan's career dead four days before he had a starring role in a tv episode.--aethel (talk) 22:46, 23 September 2020 (UTC)

anonymous commenter on fail_fandomanon thinks real name registration isn't such a big deal and that the real danger to fanfic culture in China is whether fans will continue to snitch on each other.[9]--aethel (talk) 20:05, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

post-hoc justification by xfx?

I'm not quite sure where to put the information and I'm not sure I've got it right, but the issue of AO3's reputation in China as a porn site or as a site for underage erotica came up during the recent OTW Board elections and seems relevant to this page. Apparently people (just Xiao Zhan fans? the general public?) were justifying AO3 getting blocked because it was full of underage porn or porn, so Chinese AO3 fans who want to defend the site against naysayers have been arguing that it is NOT those things. I added something to the AO3 history section on its "parking lot" nickname, but I'm not sure that's enough. Links I have so far:

--aethel (talk) 21:01, 14 August 2022 (UTC)

More recent academic article - fan reactions not reported here?

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/20594364231188350 is a super interesting article that covers 227 and some musing on impact! I think it could be is own fanlore article, but the bit I think would be really relevant to this page would be the section on topic modelling (which grouped up responses on Weibo into activism, characterisation related, and identification related) and the section on visual responses (the visual responses are p much missing from this page) -Distracteddaydreamer (talk) 16:50, 16 March 2024 (UTC)

I think it's also necessary to add on about snowflakes and snowmelt " 融雪剂snowmelt, which Xiao’s fans use against snowflake" http://web.archive.org/web/20200416233529/https://archiveofourown.org/comments/293883214 since it seems to be the terms two groups adopted for themselves during this incident!

Featured Article nomination

This was nominated for Featured Article in 2024. However, acting as Fanlore chairs, we are placing this nomination on hold until further notice for concerns about endangering fans, identity protection, and other issues. Noah A and Joanna R (talk) 21:48, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

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