Talk:Oral Sex
I think this issue has already been raised on the Talk:Education AU page, but I feel that here, too, the inclusion of notable artists without adding specific fanwork examples seems a bit strange. I'd suggest linking fanwork examples instead of just listing artists. SecurityBreach (talk) 15:21, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
- Yes, please. There needs to more to these multiple pages than there is presently. There needs to be examples of fanworks (and hopefully some commentary about why they were chosen, or added commentary by fans to the works themselves), more internal wikilinks and to commentary within Fanlore, discussion of trends, of how these trends and tropes appear in other fandoms... Because at this point they are simply a
one-fandom specific, incomplete directory that lacks commentary. --MPH (talk) 15:33, 2 September 2020 (UTC) edited: put a strike though "one-fandom specific." --MPH (talk) 20:35, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
- Firstly, I noticed a link that might need a disambiguation page. I don't think the Helen Patrick linked here, is the Helen Patrick you're looking for. It links to a writer and zine publisher, not an artist.
- I agree with securitybreach. By listing artists and not linking to specific works, it looks like these artists are only known for creating art featuring specific oral sex acts. I think the redirects Jacksbrak created are a good idea, but I don't think the sections should correspond to those redirects. The page could definitely be reorganized to give a broad overview of the topic. Minotaur had a whole page devoted to oral sex tips for slash fans. That definitely belongs here. I'd like this page to highlight those kinds of discussions around oral sex in fanworks; was it a taboo and how did attitudes change over time. Notable fanworks should span multiple fandoms over the last (at least) 20 - 30 years and show a variety of examples. We already host explicit fanart featuring oral sex on Fanlore, and I think some of those images should be added to the page.--Auntags (talk) 23:26, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
I changed the Helen Patrick link to "Helen Patrick (artist)" and added it to the disambiguation page for "Helen". I'm not sure if we need a disambiguation page for Helen Patrick alone, but I'd make one if you feel we should have it. I also put a section for links and resources on the page, and added the minotaur and wikipedia link. I agree with auntags that this page could be reorganised; at the moment, it looks like a glossary with a lot of red links to me. Unfortunately, I know next to nothing about the discussions around oral sex in fanworks and could use some help here :D Thank you very much! SecurityBreach (talk) 06:02, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
Added links to AO3 and FF.net tags. SecurityBreach (talk) 06:22, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
It turned out that the Helen Patrick on this page really is the Helen Patrick. I went to the disambiguation page and set it right again. I'd still prefer an example fic instead of a mere link to her fanpage though; at the moment, it looks as if her work was exclusively dedicated to one particular sexual practice (this goes for the other artists listed on this page, too). SecurityBreach (talk) 10:28, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
- Oops, I'm very sorry for confusing the issue. This is another reason having one example fanwork is a good idea. It links to the creators fannish account (most of the time) and makes it easy to verify and link fannish identities. -- Auntags 22:47, 6 September 2020 (UTC)
Proposal:
If there is no objection, I plan to delete the section headings and the artists linked here (as without example fanworks, these redlinks don't add anything to the page). I'll try to rewrite the intro so it relates to fandom, and then hopefully we can expand the page to focus on discussions around oral sex in fannish communities. --Auntags (talk) 22:23, 8 September 2020 (UTC)
- I support too!
- Also wanted to say that I'm not sure each definition needs its own section within this page unless there are intentions to flesh them out more. Having big ol' section headers with a tiny one-sentence of definition under them seems... odd, for lack of better words. Unnecessarily elongates the page despite how little content there is under each header. Why not make one easy paragraph or two defining each of the sexual acts near the top, with each defined word bolded, as some pages do? And then hopefully these sex acts will be given more fandom context other than simply being a place to state that.. well yes, oral sex is drawn in fandom. Everyone else here said pretty much the same thing so I guess I'm just agreeing. Oh- maybe there can be more femslash art examples! Right now looks like its mostly m/m. Patchlamb (talk) 23:46, 8 September 2020 (UTC)
- Yes, pls, I support your proposal too! SecurityBreach (talk) 15:12, 10 September 2020 (UTC)
New Intro
I've drafted up a new intro, but my fandom experience is very much fic and slash focused so any suggestions or additions are greatly appreciated. See draft below --Auntags (talk) 21:37, 10 September 2020 (UTC)
In explicit fanworks the depiction of oral sex acts is common.For a long time, some forms of oral sex were not considered "real" sex, with fanfiction writers often portraying penetrative sex as more meaningful than non-penetrative and oral sex acts. This complaint often refers to the depiction of fellatio and cunnilingus, in het and slash fanworks.
Other oral sex acts have previously been considered taboo, and oral sex may still be considered taboo in certain fandoms. Rimming may be one of the most taboo oral sex acts depicted in fanworks, with many older fanfic archives including specific warnings. A multifandom archive WWOMB includes warnings for Oral Sex and a separate warning for Kink - Rimming. The Prydonian, a fandom specific slash archive, included a warning for rimming, but no warning for oral sex, or other oral sex acts.
- I'd add some wikilinks but feel this is a a very good start. --MPH (talk) 02:48, 11 September 2020 (UTC)
- I think it's a very good start, too -- SecurityBreach (talk) 07:16, 11 September 2020 (UTC)
Sexually Explicit Fanworks Page
I just noticed we have a page for Sexually Explicit Fanworks, which discusses quite a bit about sexual art and fandom's reaction to it. Could this page on oral sex possibly by integrated into that page? It seems like oral sex is a part of "sexually explicit fanworks" and might do better being on that page instead of being its own page, since a lot of info might be repeated (just with the spin that its oral sex vs. every other kind of explicit art). Patchlamb (talk) 17:14, 4 October 2020 (UTC)