Talk:Blasphemy

I propose making the info on this page a section on the Religion page. --MPH (talk) 15:18, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

Agree. Either that or delete entirely. It is possible someone in the future might add enough to the section to make it fannishly interesting; but it definitely would need expansion. --Greer Watson (talk) 20:23, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

This exists as a discrete trope/kink. The most popular manifestation of it may be priestfic. But it seems to broadly encompass fanworks involving the transgression of religious mores, the breaking of religious vows, or the defiling of holy sites/iconography/etc. Think "sex in a confession booth" fics. The Religion article seems to focus on general fannish opinions on religion and fannish expressions of faith. I think this special-interest topic would be a bit of an ill fit there. Although I'm not sure "Blasphemy" is an ideal title. Perhaps "Blasphemy Kink" would be clearer? Night Rain (talk) 21:30, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

Then it could be made a section on the Priest!fic page. Either that, or on the page on Religion. I don't think the info should be removed entirely. The kink exists, there is sufficient fannish interest, so it should be mentioned on Fanlore. I don't see the necessity of a separate article though. --SecurityBreach (talk) 22:11, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

Blasphemy has a bit of a hold in the monster fucking communities, if that helps any! I think knowing that, that could help flesh out a page on this maybe? Might do good to peek into the tags on AO3 to see if the tag "blasphemy" appears in specific fandoms more than others? If not then yeah might do better off on the page for religion like everyone else suggested. Patchlamb (talk) 22:18, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

As of today, Supernatural leads with 460 works tagged blasphemy, Good Omens (TV) follows with 186. The Star Wars Sequel Trilogy has only 37. And although there are a lot of works tagged blasphemy on the Ao3, not all of them are kinky. Sometimes ppl are just swearing or the Lord's name is used in a context that could be deemed inappropriate and the author wants to give a trigger warning ('also some mild blasphemy if you're a Christian?', 'Sorry if it's slightly blasphemous to some of you', 'do not read this fic if you are catholic and blasphemy upsets you'). --SecurityBreach (talk) 22:44, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

(there was some sort of editing conflict while I was trying to add to my comment, so I just leave this here) There are currently 20 fics actually tagged Blasphemy kink or kink:blasphemy. I'd say add the content to one of the pages mentioned by the other editors. --SecurityBreach (talk) 23:06, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

(edit conflict - written in reply to SecurityBreach's comment posted at 22:11) This trope doesn't necessarily involve priests though. Sometimes it involves nuns or monks. And sometimes it's just non-clergy characters engaging in sexual activity in a church or other sacred place. Speaking of a fandom I know, the Jaime/Cersei sept scene kinda hits this trope, although there's obviously other aspects of that scene that make it taboo (and controversial). Anyway, this seems to be a fairly diverse, well-represented kink. It seems to be quite popular in Fleabag fandom, and the star-crossed, going-against-God devil/angel dynamic seems to be part of the appeal of Aziraphale/Crowley, at least for some. Someone more familiar with a range of examples could probably expand this. Night Rain (talk) 22:51, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

(reply to SecurityBreach's added comment) Not all tropes have codified names. I don't think we should get caught on that here. There's 10 pages of works tagged "Sacrilege" on AO3. There's 1164 works tagged "Church Sex," 453 works tagged "Confessional Sex," 138 works tagged "Breaking Celibacy Vows", 14 works tagged "Misuse of Crucifix." Like, this is definitely a specific flavour of fannish jam, even it doesn't have a name. Night Rain (talk) 23:24, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

If blasphemy!sex is jam to some fandoms, that's a fair point. However, I think the page should then be renamed "Blasphemy Kink" and be treated as a flavour of kink rather than put as a Glossary page. To be truly glossary-related, the article would need to start with a definition of what the term "blasphemy" means to the general public and how that relates to "blasphemy" as a fannish term. There are certainly words with a semantically distinct fannish meaning; but that doesn't seem to the be case here.

Furthermore, as it stands, even as an article about blasphemy kink this is barely a stub. There does seem (from what has been said above) to be a kink involved; but the page badly needs more info on fandom. It needs expansion. Either that or be moved, at least for now, to a section on the Religion page, as has been suggested. --Greer Watson (talk) 18:27, 19 June 2021 (UTC)

This definitely is a kink in some fandoms, or with some characters. It's rare and I've mostly found it with Catholic characters or Irish characters or characters played by Irish actors - and then its moreso in AUs like a priest!fic rather than canonverse stories. I do not know how this trope presents with other religions or fictional religions. But I don't think it should be put on the religion page as that pages deals with depiction of religions in fanfic. And I'm unsure if it should be renamed as blasphemy kink, as some works use blasphemy an expression of a characters loss of faith!

If there are editors willing to work on this page, and expand it to include some of the examples they've mentioned here, then I think we'd get a better idea of the focus of this page. And then it would be easier to decide if the page should be renamed. I do agree the infobox should be changed to Template:Trope through, because everyone's been discussing it as a trope rather than a fannish term that needs explaining. --Auntags (talk) 12:11, 27 June 2021 (UTC)