Fandom history lesson
| Meta | |
|---|---|
| Title: | fandom history lesson (first line of the Twitter thread) |
| Creator: | viciousdelights |
| Date(s): | October 6, 2020 |
| Medium: | |
| Fandom: | Multifandom, Slash |
| Topic: | Fandom History |
| External Links: | [7], Archived version |
| Click here for related articles on Fanlore. | |
fandom history lesson is a Twitter thread written by viciousdelights on October 6, 2020. It touched on misogyny in nerd culture and how newer generations of fans fail to take into consideration that acceptance of same sex pairings is a recent phenomenon.
Essay
fandom history lessona list of things that happened regularly
- -tv show hosts showing off fanart and fanfic and publicly making fun of it, sometimes forcing the ACTORS to join in
- -creators roasting fic/fanart at cons
- -media outlets writing articles that talk abt how dumb it is
- -creators publicly shaming their fangirl audiences for "only caring about romance" or "only caring about the hot guys"
- -creators publicly shaming their audience for daring to create queer content
- -creators SUING fans for posting fanfic. do you understand why ao3 was made?
- -creators "allowing" fanfic, but only on their strictest terms. this means no explicit content, no queer interpretations, absolutely nothing but child-friendly canon era gen fic
- -other fans (usually male or of the non-fanfic type) being weirded out if they hear you write fic
- -the ENTIRE reaction to 50sog & twilight. regardless of the quality of the books, you dont know how savage people got once they learned it was originally a twilight fanfic
- -fic communities literally being LOCKED because of harassment. you needed to prove you were NOT a troll
- -fangirls and fanfic writers basically being shunned out of nerd culture and having to make their own places because even the guys who cosplay dragon slayers and draw sexy superheroes found us weird
you dont understand what we've been through to get this far.
so much of the anti-fangirl sentiment is also misogyny. because let's be real, drawing "harmless" fanart and engaging with fandom has been a subculture since forever. BUT it depends on HOW you engage. shipping is completely different. shipping is female-driven and misunderstood
so please learn your fandom history and understand why the fact that you can publicly talk about wanting arya and gendry to kiss and not get absolutely decimated for it is a NEW THING we have been fighting for for the longest time
also @ all these kids complaining about why older shows/media always have homoerotic subtext but never bothered to make it canon
BECAUSE IT WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN AIRED OR PUBLISHED IF THEY DID. THAT'S WHY. it doesn't make them less important. it's GOOD that we've come so far
can't stop thinking about that tweet that went "gay marriage was still illegal when hannibal first aired"
it aired from 2013-2015
bryan fuller is a gay man. what he was able to do was amazing.
Responses
[orangecrushed]: this will probably give you flashbacks but it's worth it to remind ourselves where we've been & where we still are[Link to viciousdelights Twitter thread]
fandom is a fucked-up place because society is a fucked-up place. there are REAL issues we can work on together, like fighting actual racism and misogyny. but anybody who can say "let's bring back homophobia" with a straight face over fanart they dislike is off the fucking squad
we are always a couple of stupid tweets away from getting tossed out on our ears. don't forget. the "mainstreaming" of fandom (which still doesn't include a lot of queer, disabled, nonwhite, female voices) is contingent & fragile. you don't think we can get sued again? you sure?
the harder antis agitate for banning this one ship, or this specific kind of art, or this tag, or this creator, or whatever, one at a time (not because of real harm but because of preference) the more they chip away at the relative security fandom has built for itself.
we think we're on the inside now. like, media talks about how creative we are, instead of just laughing at how nasty and weird we are! yay! but we're not on the inside. we're at the threshold. the doors can be closed at any time. antis are reaching for the handles.[1]
[vesperine]:A must-read. Before any younger or new members to fandom censure us for being "too permissive", or tar us with the same brush as literal criminals, this is why older (years/experience) fans are the way we are. [Link to viciousdelights Twitter thread]
It was only after the Magic School (the one with the TERF author) and Marvel really took off that it became cool to be geeky. I've been a fan for over 15 years (that's more than half my life at this point). When I first became a fan, I was 14, and I read some awful works.
Awful as in it contained much more awful themes, worse pairings, etc. Fandom then was just the secret hobby of a bunch of young women and teenagers. To even come out as a fan was almost unthinkable, it would be kind of like branding yourself a deviant.
In the 2010s when fandom was starting to become more common, it was still stereotyped something for the guys. The guys and their superhero comics and their sci-fi. Kids used to be bullied for being too nerdy or geeky. Many of us adults now probably have experiences of it.
Then tumblr came and with a primarily female-centric and queer-friendly demographic, fan creators could connect and create our spaces and curate our experiences. We made cards for creators, showed up at cons, cos played, wrote and drew, and for the first time for many, belonged.
Of course then corporations saw Tumblr as an asset and bought it over, and proceeded to drive us out, because we weren't the cash cows they wanted us to be. (I still maintain that whoever does the ads doesn't know shit about advertising lol because fans can and will spend money)
So here we are. And with fandom becoming more mainstream, people new to fandom are coming in and trying to impose their values and their ethics and morality upon us, dividing fandom from inside out.
Of course fans were never a monolith, but in the early days when we could find each other we banded together. No one wanted us, everyone thought we were weird and gross, a bunch of women/girls and queers, expressing our ideal relationships and creating and sharing
our idea of love and sexual expression. So yes, of course certain content is distasteful to me. But I remember when my content was distasteful and shameful and disgusting to others. You thought gay shipping was normal or acceptable? It still isn't in many parts of the world. Grimacing face
Some content is clearly abhorrent, but I practice ykinmk in public. People can't be guilty of thought crimes. Just because someone has a noncon fantasy doesn't mean they're going to go out to harm people. Fantasy is not reality.
Also consider that many people in fandom are any of the below:
- 1) female or identifying
- 2) on the lgbtq+ spectrum
- 3) BIPOC
- 4) have physical/mental health issues and are spoonies/disabled.
If antis want to punch anyone, punch up. Strike out at exploitative industries.
Strike out at surveillance government and police brutality. Strike out at perpetuators of atrocities. Strike out at the root causes of social problems; inequality, racism, poverty.
FYI this whole thing is muted because I'm big tired.[2]
[tbq_]:[Link to viciousdelights Twitter thread]
This is an excellent list. I would also add we sh/couldn't put our real names on fics. It was HUGE that founding members of AO3 went in front of the US government with their real names and argued on behalf of transformative works.[3]
[viciousdelights comment on tbq_]: older fans operated anonymously, and the rise of social media (with revealing your real name and face???) goes against everything we learned. here's another reason why AO3 was groundbreaking, the archive & legal help aside
[MapleMind2 Replying to viciousdelights]: Thank you for this! So many flashbacks right now. I still get terrified of being openly humiliated INSIDE fandom, let alone in the “outside world”.... No-one irl knows about my fandom things! I honestly don’t think they understand how much they have now thanks to the nasty stuff that came before. Its like the “popular” bully cliques at school all over again...
[siliconealien Replying to viciousdelights]: This whole thread was brilliant. We take so much for granted now. I still think about how we used to write those long disclaimers like "Don't sue me, I have no money Weary face" Thanks for writing this up!
[viciousdelights replying to siliconealien]: haha please let us bring back “don’t like, don’t read!”
[fettupwithyou Replying to viciousdelights] God, I remember how on late night shows they'd show johnlock fanart to the actors and make fun of it. And Benedict hated the johnlock fans. I remember when fan creators had disclaimers and such with written request not to show their work to the creators and actors.
[ viciousdelights replying to a deleted tweet]: if you read the replies & quote retweets, you’ll find many examples. here are some from memory:
- -bashing on TV: graham norton. check his episodes with the sherlock cast and the xmen (prequels) cast
- -moffat, gatis, and the sherlock cast making fun of the fangirls. all. the. time.
- -suing: anne rice notoriously sued fic writers. there’s a reason why many fics had disclaimers “i dont own these characters and make no profit” for the longest time. this is why ao3 was created.
- -controlling: jkr only accepted “family friendly” fanfic. and well she’s a terf so...
not to mention the amount of hate you’ll find if you search youtube & google. male star wars fans are notorious for harassing female shippers.[4]
- -someone replied that the teen wolf crew once read a fic out loud at a con & made fun of it. this happened. a lot. w other fandoms too
[tnielsenhayden replying to viciousdelights and coyotedancer]The FBI showing up to inspect the dealers’ room, looking for stapled volumes of mimeographed fanfic.
Studios nervously keeping fanfic-tinged storylines out of tie-in novels.
(I’m old.)
“Don’t publish fanfic” was once standard advice for newbie fanzine publishers, but back then the word meant something different.
(I’m really old.)[5]
[sunbug replying to viciousdelights But when *men* write fan/transformative fiction it is "a bold new take" or " a re-imaging" c.f. The Aeneid for a start
[pwu80d replying to viciousdelights and MorikunRinari]And yet it's obvious that too many content creators shamelessly pander to those fan fic and fan artists. You can't have it both ways. And neither approach is a sign of geniune respect: either bullied or manipulated. Show actual respect and consideration to your fans.
It goes both ways. I know of a major show accused of queerbaiting that was fully open to getting the characters together until they faced constant harassment, accusations, denigration, some kys and death threats. It became so unenjoyable the pairing never happened.rt[6]
[stillgamesgeary replying to @viciousdelights] Startrek male fans stereotype was pushed into mainstream cuz they could rattle off stats and logic while it was female fans who made the first fanzine, wrote whole literature inspired by the world and built it further and with such skill that it was creator recommended
[asgardianviking replying to stillgamesgeary and viciousdelights] Wat grinds my gears is that any idiot can memorize fan trivia but it takes a lot of skill and effort to create great fanart
[stillgamesgeary replying to asgardianviking and viciousdelights] Literally THIS. Imagine the amount of effort and heart that goes into recreating and expanding the world and having it slandered as frivolous nonsense.
[NDjinnDraws replying to viciousdelights]:Pardon me if I seen ignorant, but I'm not sure I understand how this is man against woman thing. I mean since the inception of adult "nerd culture" both men and women have been shitted on. Are we gonna forget Simpsons comic book guy, revenge of the nerds, big bang theory, ect? gimme your tired, your poor, your dark fantasies
[nbdjusttired replying to NDjinnDraws]: This is focusing mostly on fan content and creators, not stereotypes in media.
[NDjinnDraws replying to nbdjusttired]: In the case still don't think its that cut and dry. As a black person in nerd culture, writing, drawing, cosplaying, voice acting, ect i (along w/ many others I know) haven't had a space either. Its only recently that any of those things have been more acceptable.
[spacehostility replying to NDjinnDraws, nbdjusttired and viciousdelights]: Racism and colorism is also a huge part of fandom that should be addressed. Misogyny is also a problem in fan cultures and needs to be addressed as well. As far as the shitting on of men in pop culture, you'll notice that no girls can even be thought as as nerds and the
Nerd boys never go after women in their own spheres, instead only finding women who are not into fandom attractive. They look down of their female counterparts. The idea of the fake gamer girl is also perpetuated in fandom spaces, implying that women can only be into nerdy things
If they are doing it to impress a guy. Overall, BIPOC women are at the most disadvantage in fandom spaces because of the idealized version of a nerd, a young white guy with glasses. Unfortunately, racism and misogyny coexist in fandom just as much as they do in general society
[NDjinnDraws Replying to spacehostility, nbdjusttired, and viciousdelights]: Finesse that gets lost because "men hate women and won't make space for them" nerd culture has always been discriminated against and thats the biggest problem. White men were openly mocked and became frustrated. Then shunned others as they were, it's stupid but its true.
[spacehostility replying to NDjinnDraws]: I also don't want to sound aggressive either. But I disagree that the white male fans being mocked is the root of problems. I am a woman in star wars fandom, and we are amongst the most hated in all fandoms as the original thread points out. WOC are even more likely to face
Hate withing my space, and I have been lucky as a mostly white person to not be affected directly by racism, while I have been mocked for my shipping and for even liking star wars. But despite being mocked all the time on Twitter (there are THREE separate accnts with thousands of
Followers each hating on my fandom) and I have never and will never mock another fan for who they are or who they like. Being mocked does not lead to mocking people. Being discriminated does not necessarily lead to discrimination of others. White male nerds also never experienced
Discrimination, though they may have faced bullying. There is a difference and what they do to women, non binary people, queer people, and poc CANNOT be excused because of their childhood bullies or being rejected by a woman. Hope this helps and have a good night!
[NDjinnDraws replying to spacehostility]: I think you misunderstand what I'm trying to express. Its not that I think that it excuses it (see "its stupid but its true") but more that there is something that led to it. Also I can not after with mocking doesn't lead to mocking. People in pain have perpetuated that pain.
[NDjinnDraws replying to spacehostility]:
I want to be clear that I don't think Misogyny isn't a problem, I just don't think it is exclusive. A lot of the time that conversations are brought up, I as black man, an clumped together in the term men or misogynist when I'm just as likely to be discredited or discriminated
[DarthAstris replying to viciousdelights]: And I remember the blessed few authors and actors who would stand up for us and say that they thought it was cool or an expression of love and creativity. They were few and far between.
[wrldho replying to viciousdelights] THIS. OH MY GOD. It's so infuriating that anything part of lgbt or female fandom culture is ridiculed and mocked. Like this is especially in the anime community, it's fucking gross how blatantly misunderstood fandom culture is to fanboys.
[CopperTucker replying to viciousdelights and squeakytoi]Can I add the Pern fandom in this, because it is largely made up of roleplayers. Anne McCaffrey would send C&D notices to people holding RPs in her sandbox, and for a long time most were private PBeMs.
When restrictions were slightly lifted, you still need to have -
-written permission from her/her lawyer, and your RP could only operate under the strict rules that she set (which were incredibly homophobic and sexist).
There's still people in the fandom who remember and have those letters! It's insane!
In her later years McCaffrey eased up and now that she's dead we're allowed to do whatever, but yeah.
[Sincerly_M replying to viciousdelights and pandasncream]Someone put into words. I do believe that there is a toxic and destructive part of fangirls and what we do (death threats to MHA creator as an example) but every community, cause, fandom, etc has that toxic part. And that ends up being all people see. And I’ve been mocked by it.
I kept my fan fics hidden like some dirty secret in high school, except to the people who also wrote them. But as I got older, and continues to write, I realized how much it helped my writing. In retrospect, it’s an amazing way for young (and even older) writers to become better.
It allows you to play with established worlds and characters and play around with them. And I really believe this helps them to learn how characters personalities, settings, and story building work. You don’t have to create your own world 100% and therefor have more freedom.
And you can get feedback from people and learn how to deal with criticism and which you can take or not take seriously. Which makes it a great starting point for blooming writers.
And to end it off, remember, you don’t have to be ashamed if it’s not hurting you or others.
[Arywnn] This! I love writing fanfic and this is one of the reasons why! Yet a few of my writer friends (the older ones) always ask me when I’m going to write my own stuff and stop writing fanfic. It pisses me off especially since they fall into the crowd that equates fanfic to being crap
[AuroraScartares] And for me, as a non american, learned English quickier because of fanfics. And now I'm having the same learning with Japanese while reading doujinshis.
[KianeCamui replying to viciousdelights] I hate when people make fun of fandom content. I sometimes love the fandom content more than the actual show [Face with hand over mouth] [No one under eighteen symbol]
[4everasoldier replying to viciousdelights and RedRubien] I got into fandom around late 2017 maybe and I still remember putting disclaimers and being terrified if someone found out. I looked to the elders of fandom and followed their example even if I didn't fully understand why. To this day I still write under a pen name.
[T0XICR1OT replying to viciousdelights] Yeah kinda makes me sad, imagining relationships in a Fandom just makes me happy ig
[waterfall8484 replying to viciousdelights] I find myself being nervous about how so many fans interact openly with especially youtubers, because my knee jerk reaction is always "shh, they'll *see* us!" It's even worse when those youtubers have tumblrs because creators *should not* be in fandom spaces wth? [Face with tears of joy symbol]
[ThatCmonster replying to viciousdelights]This is a really great history lesson, thank you! I’d only like to point out that most creators don’t want to put up restrictions or shutdown fan content, but IP laws are messed up (better now than before but still) and often don’t have a choice but to enforce their copyright.
Of course I’m not referring to infamous creators who have taken things to extremes in the past, that was obviously messed up and unnecessary.
Oh! And the AO3 case arguing for transformative works was INTEGRAL to improving modern day IP and copyright law. Without them, we wouldn’t even have YouTube parodies, commentary, streaming content and a huge variety of different types of entertainment thag we enjoy today.
[reylocallig replying to viciousdelights]: An incredible thread Frankie, thank you for sharing and taking the time to write it. I still remember the pre-ao3 days of writing a long disclaimer before every single chapter, worried I'd get attacked or sued... The death threats... And they weren't that long ago.
[babyboybillie replying to viciousdelights] Oh God, I'd forgotten/wiped from my brain that whole time of forcing actors to read fanfic aloud in front of media personnel. It was horrifically cringeworthy - embarrassing for all concerned.
[corbieclook]: There were always the fringe people who would give celebs their explicit fic at premieres/cons/etc (someone notably did this to the LotR cast, I believe?) or other weird things - the one time Smallville fans gave Michael Rosenbaum a box of sex toys? It's always been kinda awkward
[shockvaluecola]: yeah, but i think it's becoming more mainstream now. like, for as long as i've been in fandom, the understanding that those people were doing something wrong was nearly universal. but in the last year or two that consensus seems to be weakning.
[corbieclook]: It personally makes me super uncomfortable to weaken that divide between fans and creators/celebs, especially re: shipping. While making fanfic and fan creations more mainstream is good, I'm not wholly comfortable with where fandom culture is going.
[corbieclook]: Same, I love chatting with writers/etc on twitter, but at the end of the day, toxic fans and their entitlement in pushing boundaries too far just make me uneasy. It's awful when someone gets scared away from social media by fans for any reason.
[shockvaluecola]: agreed, and its a problem in the other direction too. too much creator involvement stifles fanworks, because a lot of fanworks are made with the hope that the creators will never see it.
[qvotoms replying to viciousdelights]: remember when the avatar the last airbender creators said that if you ship zuko/katara you're doomed to abusive relationships? extremely normal thing to yell at 14 year olds for having the wrong ship
[undeadmeats replying to viciousdelights and Aszabla]:This is why I still side-eye folks who bring up fujoshi as a 'problem' and try to police (non-lolisho) ships for being 'problematic'.
It's not the content folks have an issue with. It's the fact women are involved. I am in male-majority fandoms that operate
[undeadmeats]: -very similarly to the way female-majority fandoms stereotypically do (down to ships, self-inserts, and other types of fan content) that get none of the flak because it's men doing it.
Neither group is hurting anyone. You're just mad that women are having fun of on their own.
[SleepyEnemy replying to viciousdelights]:Or when on livejournal an anti +18 content trend started and on fanfiction (net) explicitly sexual content was banned in 2010, but at the end the trend resulted to be anti-queer content and fanfiction didn't ban every +18 ff only the ones deemed " too gay".
If we go even further back in time, in 2006 then rule 37 of the internet said "there are no girls on the internet" not as in "everyone could be a dude" but as a way to discredit girls, gamers, creators and future influencers, because "girls should know their place".
There was no block button, report, tag sistem, moderators ect so famdom communities were really small, didn't last long and sooner or later a troll got in and everything was closed down.
[fatgirlhours]: I’ll admit, I didn’t get reylo as a rom ship, but the way folks would harass reylos was intense
[embriium replying to viciousdelights]: Oof, let’s not forget the time that the creators of ATLA took a bunch of Zutara fanart without permission to put into a PowerPoint to make fun of them, and also said that people who liked ZK were doomed to toxic relationships. 🤷🏽
[fatgirlhours replying to viciousdelights]: Man oh man it’s hard being a female Star Wars fan.
[justaddfiction replying to viciousdelights]: it was only a couple years ago that the CW Supergirl cast openly mocked fans of the supercorp ship, with only Katie McGrath (who plays Lena Luthor) defending the fans.