Talk:Ellen
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About redirect Elliot Page
I propose not deleting "Ellen Page an Canadian Actress" but instead redirecting to Elliot Page. --MPH (talk) 02:18, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
- I agree. There are bound to be people who have not heard of the name change. A redirect seems appropriate. --Greer Watson (talk) 08:11, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
- I feel like given that Ellen Page does already redirect to Elliot Page, and that most people I imagine who aren't aware of the coming out are likely to type in his full deadname into the search bar rather than just 'Ellen', it seems a little redundant to have his deadname included on a list of Ellens. That being said, I don't want to speak out over the voices of trans and/or non binary folks who've changed their names, but I also don't want anyone to feel forced into outing themselves in order to have an opinion on this. I'm mostly just trying to minimise the number of times their deadname is used, whilst also providing enough information so fans know the change has occured regarding an actor they might recognise. OfMonstersAndWerewolves (talk) 16:06, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
- How about "Ellen Page" (actor), see Elliot Page" on that list of Ellens? --MPH (talk) 16:50, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
- Idk, it still feels as though it's centring his deadname rather than his actual name, personally. It just seems like including it on a list of Ellens implies that the name should still have relevance when I think the aim should be to move towards getting folks to understand his name's Elliot. Given Fanlore's a wiki I think it’s kinda unavoidable that his deadname has to come up at some point, particularly as, correct me if I'm wrong, unedited photos aren't allowed to provide context as to who they are. But I think the use of the redirect of ‘Ellen Page’, links to his Twitter, the context on his page and some of the websites on his page that used his deadname (still not entirely sure what to do about those, so I've just left them for now) is probably sufficient enough. Slight side note: I'm also hoping to create and at least start on some pages related to ‘Queerness and Fandom' and include some notable examples of Queer actors, including Elliot, so I think that could go some way to providing information. OfMonstersAndWerewolves (talk) 17:05, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
- As a compromise, could we include Elliot Page in a See Also section at the bottom of this page. Something like; Elliot Page, actor known for his roles in Juno, X-Men, TUA. In that way we are acknowledging some people might come to this page looking for Elliot Page, and providing enough detail for readers to recognize the actor from his work, but we're not actually linking him to his birthname. --Auntags (talk) 10:43, 4 December 2020 (UTC)
- Except that I think, if people come to a page called Ellen looking for the actor, it won't be the name "Elliot Page" they'll be looking for. Being correct to the point of obscuration is not the purpose of a wiki. Only by providing the link do we lead a person who is ignorant to the knowledge they need, i.e. that there's been a name/gender change. --Greer Watson (talk) 11:36, 4 December 2020 (UTC)
- We could do the compromise for now, if people still feel he should be included here, and then if anyone else wishes to offer any further thoughts they can do so on this thread. Or if anyone is reading this who'd prefer to talk to me privately about it or any suggestions they have, if they'd feel more comfortable that way, feel free to email me (or message on Tumblr) via the links on my User page. OfMonstersAndWerewolves (talk) 22:47, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
- Except that I think, if people come to a page called Ellen looking for the actor, it won't be the name "Elliot Page" they'll be looking for. Being correct to the point of obscuration is not the purpose of a wiki. Only by providing the link do we lead a person who is ignorant to the knowledge they need, i.e. that there's been a name/gender change. --Greer Watson (talk) 11:36, 4 December 2020 (UTC)
- As a compromise, could we include Elliot Page in a See Also section at the bottom of this page. Something like; Elliot Page, actor known for his roles in Juno, X-Men, TUA. In that way we are acknowledging some people might come to this page looking for Elliot Page, and providing enough detail for readers to recognize the actor from his work, but we're not actually linking him to his birthname. --Auntags (talk) 10:43, 4 December 2020 (UTC)
- Idk, it still feels as though it's centring his deadname rather than his actual name, personally. It just seems like including it on a list of Ellens implies that the name should still have relevance when I think the aim should be to move towards getting folks to understand his name's Elliot. Given Fanlore's a wiki I think it’s kinda unavoidable that his deadname has to come up at some point, particularly as, correct me if I'm wrong, unedited photos aren't allowed to provide context as to who they are. But I think the use of the redirect of ‘Ellen Page’, links to his Twitter, the context on his page and some of the websites on his page that used his deadname (still not entirely sure what to do about those, so I've just left them for now) is probably sufficient enough. Slight side note: I'm also hoping to create and at least start on some pages related to ‘Queerness and Fandom' and include some notable examples of Queer actors, including Elliot, so I think that could go some way to providing information. OfMonstersAndWerewolves (talk) 17:05, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
- How about "Ellen Page" (actor), see Elliot Page" on that list of Ellens? --MPH (talk) 16:50, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
- I feel like given that Ellen Page does already redirect to Elliot Page, and that most people I imagine who aren't aware of the coming out are likely to type in his full deadname into the search bar rather than just 'Ellen', it seems a little redundant to have his deadname included on a list of Ellens. That being said, I don't want to speak out over the voices of trans and/or non binary folks who've changed their names, but I also don't want anyone to feel forced into outing themselves in order to have an opinion on this. I'm mostly just trying to minimise the number of times their deadname is used, whilst also providing enough information so fans know the change has occured regarding an actor they might recognise. OfMonstersAndWerewolves (talk) 16:06, 2 December 2020 (UTC)