Real Person Redux
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| Title: | Real Person Redux |
| Creator: | bethbethbeth |
| Date(s): | February 14, 2003 |
| Medium: | online |
| Fandom: | RPF |
| Topic: | |
| External Links: | Real Person Redux, Archived version |
| Click here for related articles on Fanlore. | |
Real Person Redux is a 2003 essay by bethbethbeth.
The main topic is Real Person Fiction and fanworks and boundaries.
The essay was written in response to post by sanj (which requires a login but may not have in the past), and that post is quoted within the essay.
Some Topics Discussed in the Post and Comments
- RPF
- songvids and their relationship to RPF
- the differences between fic and manips
- final comments by a fan about personal contact with an actor that begin to pass a possessiveness boundary, something that is one of the topics of the essay
Excerpts
My first media con experiences (back before the fanfiction side of fandom had hit my radar in any substantial way) were with actor cons. I went to two - both Highlander focused (Baltimore's Syndicon and a big end-of-series, producer-organized extravaganza in Anaheim)- and I enjoyed them, primarily because they gave me the chance to get to know a lot of the people I'd become friendly with online. However, although I found Peter Wingfield (Methos) exceedingly charming at Syndicon and Valentine Pelka (Kronos) smart and accessible and cool to talk to at the Anaheim con, two actor cons were more than enough because, like Sanj, in every way that counts, it's always been about the characters for me.
However, in my experience, a serious interest in characters has often gone hand in hand with learning a great deal (often more than I want to know *g*) about the actors who play those characters, which obviously includes the other roles they've played. And sometimes, if the other roles are interesting enough, then...yeah, I'm going to be interested in writing those characters or reading stories in which they feature (although, again like Sanj, I'm almost never interested in any story which brings together two characters played by the same actor, even in the most platonic way).
... yes, sometimes the actors who play my favorite characters take on a significance to me independent of the characters they play, which makes the following slightly problematic for me:
sanj wrote: But when people start talking possessively about their actors, or start hunting actors down at cons, or -- so help me -- showing their slash to an actor!?! Ye gods, I want nothing to do with these people. I want them confined to a desolate island with no internet and no hope of TiVo
Showing slash (or any kind of fic in which they feature) to an actor? Eeww, eeww, a thousand times eeww.
Talking possessively about them? Well, sure, when we're talking about the kind of "possessiveness" that leads certain people to believe, for instance, that they're the secret soul mate of the actor...or to attack fen who don't share the same regard for "their" actors (I love Paul Gross, for example, but if somebody else hates him, hates his work, hates his face, hates his sense of humor...well, I usually just figure that's their business and ignore it, unless they're also saying in *words* that anyone who does like him is a fool). But I do tend to have...hmm...a greater affection for the actors who play the characters I love than I do for most other actors.
The thing is, while my primary focus is on the characters, I can't entirely disassociate the characters I like from the actors who play them. The characters inhabit the actors' bodies, and they often share the actors' physical tics and vocal patterns...and when I spend so much time focused on the characters, the actors themselves become somewhat significant to me. Oddly enough, this is the reason that I tend not to like much in the way of RPS/RPF - because while I don't think that fanfic is any kind of an "imposition" on the characters (ahem...they *are* fictional, yes?), I can see how the same might not be true when making RPS publically available. In my corner of the fannish world, RPS is still almost entirely underground - no public archives, no open mailing lists - and while there are some stories that I quite like, I've also read some that have really freaked me out (e.g., a story by someone who's no longer active in fandom which focused on a terminally ill CKR. I mean, just...no. And...why? And again...no.)
By the way, I'm not including boyband slash here. While I have almost no interest in boybands on a personal level (despite the best efforts of some of my evil friends *g*), I can't quite think of them as real, either. I mean, yes, of course the guys are real guys, but the public personas they've adopted feel incredibly like made-up characters to me, and because of that, the public use of these characters in fiction seems more natural and more acceptable than most other kinds of RPF. (fine, I'm probably deluding myself by thinking that there's any real kind of difference here, but there you go.)
Comments at the Post
[cerata]:The thing is, while my primary focus is on the characters, I can't entirely disassociate the characters I like from the actors who play them.
This, oddly, is one of the reasons why I not only never got into song vids, but only very, very recently am even able to watch them without squirming. When I watch a television show or movie, I am only very rarely able to forget the actor behind the character. As immersed as I may get, there's always this little awareness in the back of my mind. The switch to the written medium is the only thing that allows me to completely disassociate the two, and thus overcome what for me is still a pretty intense squick. Anything in that medium that reminds me of the actors (like throwing together two characters played by the same actor) brings that right back to the surface.
[bethbethbeth]:Interesting comments about songvids, in particular. You know, in my case, I think I react to them purely as an extension of the show (much the way I react to fanfiction) *except* when something's...um...not canon.
There's an otherwise well-done dueSouth songvid that drives me crazy because while it's a Fraser/Vecchio vid (no, that's not why it drives me crazy *g*), it uses footage from the Kowalski seasons - and not in an ironic way. Every time I see it, I think "Man, if you see slash in the Fraser/Vecchio relationship, then fine, but I wish you'd tried harder to back it up with textual support from the *Vecchio* episodes."
[sanj]:The same thing will happen to me in songvids -- there's a Mulder one I could love except for a clip of Duchovny's character from "The Red Shoes," which makes me eeek. Outtakes are right on the verge -- if I've seen the blooper reel and am reasonably certain they're still in character, it's okay, but not if it's RL footage.
I think I have some idea that stories exist in the ether, and an actor is sort of possessed by his character, or something. I haven't thought this out enough to not sound like an idiot when I muse over it, though. :)
[brak666]:There's some measure of objectivity when it comes to questions of libel law, for example, but beyond that, it all has to do with an individual's comfort level. And there's no arguing where *that's* concerned.
See the thing is(and I've discussed this with a lawyer), it's only libel if you represent it as fact. If you're upfront about the fact that it's just your own personal fantasy an argument can be made that it's actually protected speech. That's as it applies to print media anyway. Graphics may be something else entirely, especially when manipping copyrighted images.
[lunaris1013]:Graphics may be something else entirely, especially when manipping copyrighted images
Graphics *are* something else entirely. If I take a photo of an actor then manip his face onto a picture in the public domain, I am breaking no laws. Presuming the actor sees it, he cannot sue me because I'm protected under parody laws (thank you Larry Flynt! *g*)
However, if I do the same with two copyrighted images (as I often do) I am breaking the copyright laws but I'm still protected from being sued for libel.
[laurakaye]:I've also read some that have really freaked me out (e.g., a story by someone who's no longer active in fandom which focused on a terminally ill CKR.
*gasps in horror*
AIEEEEEEEE! Speak not the unclean thing!
I mean, yes, of course the guys are real guys, but the public personas they've adopted feel incredibly like made-up characters to me, and because of that, the public use of these characters in fiction seems more natural and more acceptable than most other kinds of RPF.
This is pretty much exactly the way I feel about it. :)
[trixiesfic]:By the way, I'm not including boyband slash here. While I have almost no interest in boybands on a personal level (despite the best efforts of some of my evil friends *g*), I can't quite think of them as real, either.
I don't know who you could possibly be talking about. *g*
As for the real vs. public personas thing, I've been through that argument and I've pretty much rejected it, mainly because it feels too much like a rationalization. Which I suppose any argument that makes us feel okay with what we do, ultimately is. When I write fic and read fic, I think of them as characters. Fictional characters that I've created, based on real people. But I don't see them, in appearences and videos and articles, as public constructs. It's probably a really fine line and just another rationalization, but I've found that I need to keep them real in my mind, outside of fic. I don't know if that makes any sense at all, but there ya go.
As for the character vs. actor thing, I completly agree with you. As you know, I used to be totally squicked by RPS. And I still have no interest in actor-slash. That's largely because it's the characters I love. Sure, I adore some of the actors, but it's the characters that I think about and feel for and end up with them living in my head. It's like I've said to you before, if Paul Gross and Benton Fraser showed up on my doorstep, I'd choose Fraser. He's the one I know and care about.
[lunaris1013]:The thing is, while my primary focus is on the characters, I can't entirely disassociate the characters I like from the actors who play them
Sometimes I can and sometimes I can't.
When I manip, I won't use an actor's face when I need a character face. Michael's face isn't Lex's or Adina's - I can almost always see the difference when other people do it. Similarly, while you can slash Lex 'til the Kent Cows come home, I don't ever want to see Michael slash. RPS is just a big ol' ball of wrongness to me.
OTOH, this is why I don't do explicit photomanips. At that intimate level, even though I'm illustrating characters with the bodies of unknown models, it feels too much like an invasion of the actor's privacy in my mind.
My boundaries appear to quite amorphous on the subject *g*
[thete1]:The thing is, while my primary focus is on the characters, I can't entirely disassociate the characters I like from the actors who play them. The characters inhabit the actors' bodies, and they often share the actors' physical tics and vocal patterns...and when I spend so much time focused on the characters, the actors themselves become somewhat significant to me. Oddly enough, this is the reason that I tend not to like much in the way of RPS/RPF - because while I don't think that fanfic is any kind of an "imposition" on the characters (ahem...they *are* fictional, yes?), I can see how the same might not be true when making RPS publically available. In my corner of the fannish world, RPS is still almost entirely underground - no public archives, no open mailing lists - and while there are some stories that I quite like, I've also read some that have really freaked me out (e.g., a story by someone who's no longer active in fandom which focused on a terminally ill CKR. I mean, just...no. And...why? And again...no.)
I just wanted to say... yeah. This is pretty much where I stand. When I make my art, when I write my fic, when I watch vids, when I am, in short, a *fan*...
Well, of *course* I'm picturing the actors.
And the only time I'm not picturing the actors is when I either a) have been exposed to a great deal of the actor's work that has nothing to do with the character in question or b) have been exposed to a great deal of the actor, and it's abundantly clear that s/he's not remotely like the character in question.
The Michael Rosenbaum/Lex divide, for an example.
And yet, from the neck down... things are usually kinda the same. (with notable exceptions)
[colleenkane]:sanj wrote: But when people start talking possessively about their actors, or start hunting actors down at cons, or -- so help me -- showing their slash to an actor!?! Ye gods, I want nothing to do with these people. I want them confined to a desolate island with no internet and no hope of TiVo
Showing slash (or any kind of fic in which they feature) to an actor? Eeww, eeww, a thousand times eeww.
I know an actor. Let's call him... Hmm. Let's call him S. S is a warm, outgoing, and generally amazing person who I'm pleased to call my friend. He also has 24 hour internet access and he knows how to use it - and as a fairly regularly slashed actor, he's more than once come across stories of the in flagrante kind featuring himself and an Other.
His response was: "For heaven's sake, can't *someone* slash me with Jude Law instead of the Other? I'll pay." And we had a good laugh about it, but still I felt... queasy.
Mind you, the Other, well, I actually don't mind reading RPS concerning him. I know it's not real. That, to me, is the key to keeping it on the grey side of okay - knowing it's not real.
What made me wicked queasy was when I stumbled across a piece of RPS that featured S and a pal of his. Also an actor. Also a darling sweet dude. And that's where the line was crossed for me, because there was no distance anymore, zero degrees of separation, I couldn't just slough it off. It was almost... real.
So I don't know. I continue to read the stuff that catches my fancy - flame away - but I want to protect my friend. It's a very weird sich.
[bethbethbeth]:Here's one distinction, for me, at least: situations where celebs do their own form of vanity searching and come across fic about themselves. This doesn't bother me in the same way that someone pushing slash/het in which an actor features *at* that actor. I'm still not altogether comfortable with RPF being public, but the fact that the stories are out there in the world and can be found by the actors doesn't feel as intrusive to me as someone handing the fic to the actor seems.
On a lesser level, it's like an author who doesn't want anything but pats on the back and so doesn't join any lists where criticism of fic is allowed, etc (which is fair enough)...yet someone decides they *must* send their detailed crit to that author anyway. Yes, the story's public and since it is, people should be allowed to discuss it in any way they choose, but forcing the author to *participate* in the discussion doesn't seem fair to me. I'm like your actor friend: I've seen some very nice recs for stories of mine and that's cool, yet I've also seen a discussion of one of my stories where one of the participants was saying some...hmm...not wonderful things *g*. I was perfectly fine with that (I thought they'd misread the story, but it was an interesting misreading, nonetheless), but I know writers who'd have been suicidal in that situation. The thing was, though...I wasn't forced to read that discussion: I knew it was going on and I went and read it - and at that point, it's my problem if it upsets me.
But your other point - that one's own reaction depends on the circumstances *including* whether you have a personal relationship of some sort with the person being written about - well, yeah. That makes total sense. And that's why I said originally that this issue (like so many) is so subjective. I'd also be inclined to want to protect my friend from being hurt or embarrassed or whatever...yet, like you, I wouldn't necessarily object to all RPF on general principles.
[colleenkane]:the fact that the stories are out there in the world and can be found by the actors doesn't feel as intrusive to me as someone handing the fic to the actor seems.
Oh, yes, absolutely. Another so-called friend of S's takes great delight in tracking down the stories and sending them to him, and has even wrote a few herself - I find that absolutely repugnant and wish he'd tell her off. Of course, he's too nice to do so.
The only RPF board I belong to is sandbagged behind three layers of passwords, with a strict don't ask, don't tell policy - which is about right for my comfort level. No stumbling onto that puppy for anyone, even if you're silly enough (like my pal) to look. Honestly, I think that's the only way to go, but nobody listens to me. :)