Talk:Name Withheld 10
There is obviously some question as to how [Name Withheld 10]'s stories came to be archived, given that (in 2014) she says she never gave permission. I have done some asking around, from which I have been assured by more than one person that neither Cynthia Hoffman (the original archivist for the FTP site) nor Mel Moser (who started the site at www.fkfanfic.com) ever archived stories without permission.
While I'm sure that this is true for stories that were uploaded after the archives began, it is clearly untrue for the core collection on the latter site: Mel simply copied the contents of the FTP site, and did not get specific permission from the authors; i.e. she assumed that permission to archive on the FTP site carried over to permission to archive on her own site. In Mel's defence, it should be pointed out that the FTP site seemed to be in an on-again-off-again state at the time; and she was concerned to provide the fandom with a stable archive on a long-term platform with an archivist prepared to dedicate herself to preserving the site over the long haul. She did take down stories when requested, at least in the early years. And, even after she had effectively left the fandom, she continued to pay for the site. However, I can speak from my own experience in saying that, in the latter years of the archive, she was very slow to answer e-mails, if she did so at all.
As for Stephanie Kellerman, she took over the FTP site in 1999, long after [Name Withheld 10]'s stories had been written, and didn't upload her mirror site of the main archive until the 2000s. Like Mel, I'm sure she assumed that permission-to-archive had been given for all the stories that were on the sites when she herself took over responsibility for them.
All this pushes the issue back to 1994, or thereabouts, when the stories were written. At that time, there was no fan-run archive for Forever Knight fic.
When the FKFIC-L mailing list was established, all posts made to it were automatically archived on the PSU servers. This was standard practice for all PSU lists. That meant that any fan at the time who wanted to find a story had an archive they could access; and there were FAQs posted telling people how to do this. [Name Withheld 10] may or may not have been aware of the auto-archiving of stories; but the information was out there.
Around 1996 or so, some of the fan lists run by PSU were so very active that the university indicated that they were thinking of discontinuing them. In order to have the various FK lists continue, the list owners agreed to drop the auto-archive feature. It was at that point that a fan-run archive became necessary. It was around this time, then, that Cynthia Hoffman began an FTP-based archive. This was also run initially off the PSU servers, which may account for its ephemerality. Subsequently, for a while, the FTP site was handed around to volunteer archivists; but, again, that period would seem to postdate [Name Withheld 10]'s stories.
The question then becomes: what source did Cynthia use for the original core collection?
Did she only upload stories that were sent to her or explicitly permissioned? Or did she copy the auto-archive, telling people that she would remove their stories if asked? Did [Name Withheld 10] e-mail permission for the stories to be archived, and then forget? Did she simply allow the stories to be archived by remaining silent, either out of youthful enthusiasm for her fanfic, or failing to realize the implications? (Certainly, from her correspondence on my User talk page at the FK Wiki, she only belatedly realized how permanent the web can be.)
At any rate, once the stories had been in the FTP archive for a while, everyone subsequently involved in archiving FK fan fiction clearly assumed that permission must originally have been explicitly granted. --Greer Watson (talk) 21:03, 29 May 2014 (UTC)
- Greer, thank you for the detailed background history. It certainly helps put the page in a wider context. I wonder if we can include it (as a quote) on the archiving permissions pages on Fanlore. --MeeDee (talk) 21:37, 29 May 2014 (UTC)
- Thank you! Certainly use any quotations you feel useful.
- As for[ Name Withheld 10], though I sympathize with her situation, I think that much credit must be given to everyone who dealt with her in 2014. She was e-mailing/posting to people who had never heard from her before, yet (as the tone of her first, anonymous post to my User talk page indicates) she approached everyone from the start with a chip on her shoulder the size of a redwood, the certainty that people were conniving behind her back, and the assumption that no one would listen unless she began with take-down threats. People were instantly antipathetic, yet rose above it, recognizing that, despite all this, she did have a right to have her stories removed from the archives. (Also a right to have her full name suppressed in these articles.)
- I should add that she objected strongly to my adding articles to the FK Wiki about the situation, especially my documentation of the stories. (If she knew about it, she would no doubt equally object to having it mentioned here.) However, as I pointed out to her, this is all part of the history of the fandom; and it therefore falls within our mandate. She was, of course, anonymized in the FK Wiki as "Name Withheld 10". --Greer Watson (talk) 06:14, 30 May 2014 (UTC)
- It occurs to me that, since I just mentioned the tone with which [Name Withheld 10] first approached people in 2014, I should add that I've seen a forwarded copy of her initial e-mail to Stephanie Kellerman. However, it's personal correspondence, so I can't quote it. --Greer Watson (talk) 06:21, 30 May 2014 (UTC)
Correction: Not the FTP Site
The following is a correction to the opening notes above, and reflects changes made to the wiki article.
It appears that, when PSU dropped the auto-archive feature for the fan fiction mailing list, the stories were not put on the FTP site. As far as I can tell, that site contained fanfic that was uploaded, either by the authors themselves or by Cynthia, after the authors had sent her the stories by e-mail.
Rather, a separate archive for the FKFIC-L stories was started by Darkangel, who was a co-founder of the JADFE mailing list. This is referenced in e-mails to FORKNI-L in early 1996 (about a year later) when she informed the list that she had decided to discontinue the site. She therefore made its contents available to other fans on CD, which could be ordered (at cost, I assume) through the mail. In so far as I have been able to figure out, it was this CD that Mel Moser used as the principal foundation for her archive at www.fkfanfic.com. --Greer Watson (talk) 06:49, 9 October 2015 (UTC)
Edits Made To Text Above
Since this page has been edited and moved, the original text above has been edited. I added brackets to document where changes were made to the original text.MeeDee (talk) 16:20, 1 October 2017 (UTC)