Help talk:Fanlore Blanket Fan Art Permissions

We've touched on this in a discussion elsewhere, but I think it needs to be clarified: Who's permission is "enough" to say "This image is used with permission"? Personally, I'd say that the artist's permission is sufficient in any case, but I don't know if I'm comfortable saying a zine publisher has indiscriminate permission to use all the art in their zines. Especially if the artist herself is not OK with her art being on Fanlore, it seems wrong to say that we're using the image with permission because the publisher says it's cool. Similar issues are commissioned artwork, graphics made with other artist's fanart, etc.

And regardless of all that, I think we should explicitly say who's permission we have rather than the generic "permission" keyword in the image template. (Not that I've really been doing that, but I'm increasingly convinced that I should be) --sparc (talk) 07:29, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

For publisher's permission, we should not use the generic "Permission" text in the field but use "This image was uploaded with the permission of the publisher." (that is already documented on the Help page - should we bold it to make it more visible??) In terms of making a legal call of whether a publisher's permission is "enough", that, like Fair Use or the can artists give permission for art based on screencaps discussion should be addressed on a case by case basis. For now I am comfortable documenting who has given permission and then allowing Legal and the Wiki committee to handle possible artist-publisher disagreements if and when they are raised by the publishers and artists (keep in mind that some publishers may take the approach that the artist does not have the ability to give permission to use their art, especially if this was a commissioned work or a zine that is still in print. Another reason for Fanlore to simply document.) Last, since the publisher permission is "opt in" (meaning this is not something we add to every zine image - just those to zines published by publishers who feel strongly enough on the topic), it is specific and limited.--MeeDee (talk) 15:16, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

I guess I'm being a little paranoid about this because I don't want to give anyone more reason to criticize our image policy. I'm all for documentation, I just don't want people to look at it and go "Fanlore says it has permission to use these images when really it's kind of legally ambiguous!" (...but I also don't want people to go "Fanlore says zine publishers have no rights!") I'm also worried that this suggests that publisher permission means these images don't have to comply with Fair Use standards, without Legal having said one way or the other about it. I don't know, is something like "This image was uploaded with the permission of the publisher; also under Fair Use" overkill? --sparc (talk) 17:11, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

The Blanket permission page makes it clear that all images - whether uploaded with artist or publisher permission or uploaded with Fair Use have to comply with all of Fanlore's policies (which includes fair use). Adding multiple "permissions" to the upload page is overkill because to be consistent we'd have to apply "fair use" as a backup permission to every image upload to be 'safe" (for example, what if an artist does not have permission because it was a work for hire? what if the art is based on someone else's screencap? what if the artist 'plagiarized' someone else's design or used their art as a reference?) And keep in mind just because we label something as fair use does not mean it will be fair use if it is challenged and goes through legal analysis. I'd like to keep Fanlore focused on documenting permissions and not try to vet every image and pre-judge permissions. But I agree that we want to make it clear that Fanlore recognizes that the initial upload label (whether artist permission, publisher permission or fair use) is us reporting/documenting, not making a legal call. Perhaps adding to the Blanket Permission page: "Note: all images to Fanlore may be subject to additional review and Fanlore's xxx and yyyy policies.... The use of permission on an image upload is meant to document the permission status as reported to Fanlore."--MeeDee (talk) 17:47, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

If an image is used with permission, it doesn't have to meet fair use standards. That's sort of the point of getting permission? However, it should still be relevant to the page it's on and not violate any other policies.--æþel (talk) 23:04, 29 April 2013 (UTC) (Not a lawyer)

Yes aethel, that's my understanding as well. Fair use is not required when we have permission (from whomever that turns out to be). Permission also allows Fanlore to do other things like offer larger versions of the image. So there is overlap. Fair use might require a larger image to make the point, where Permission may only be given for a small thumbnail. So you'd switch back over to Fair Use if a larger version was needed. So in the end, Fair Use is the river bubbling away under it all.--MeeDee (talk) 23:40, 29 April 2013 (UTC)