Velvet Underground

Fanfiction
Title:	Velvet Underground
Author(s):	Sebastian
Date(s):	1990
Length:
Genre(s):	slash
Fandom(s):	The Professionals
Relationship(s):	Bodie/Doyle
External Links:	pdf is here
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Velvet Underground is a Bodie/Doyle story by Sebastian.

It was published in Paean to Priapus #1.

Another Fan's Responsefic

"Velvet Underground" upset another Pros author, Artemis, enough that Artemis wrote Dance With the Devil. Artemis' author notes are explicit about her intent to counter the original story.

Reactions and Reviews

1992

I can't explain to you why I enjoy reading stories of disastrous or heading-for-disaster relationships, because it's obviously not a taste you share at all. But I loved 'Velvet Underground', and the 'Adagio' sequence. You may not personally approve of people screwing around after they've made a commitment to a partner, but when you write do your characters always have to behave in a manner you would approve? Mine certainly don't.

1993

... VELVET UNDERGROUND, which was a very good, very mature story, trying to explore the fascination of S/M, how one could come to enjoy such sexuality, how it intermingles with love and trust, and how it could hint at deeper problems in one or both of the partners.

1997

This had been described to me before I read it as "Sebastian's S&M story". I was curious to see what she'd make of the subject.

My first thought on reading it was that it wasn't an S&M story. It had all the trappings, and it was about S&M doings, but it wasn't an S&M story, it was a different kind of consciousness.

It was brilliant, of course.

I should perhaps explain that I haven't read a lot of S&M, not since I was eighteen and studying French literature and worked my way through many but not all of "Les Oeuvres Complet du Marquis de Sade" for practice, reading in a state of horrified fascination. My command of French improved greatly that year. I have read enough since to know that the appeal (for me) is visceral, bypasses the intellect entirely. I would define S&M (for the sake of this review anyway) as anything in which the characters use pain, in one manifestation or another, for the sake of sexual gratification. I was surprised to find I liked this, because I hate scenes of non-consensual pain -- if Bodie or Doyle is tortured in a story, I usually skip over that part, or stop reading entirely.

2006

Almost every Pros slash story is one of seduction, but this one is a little different, from the darker side. The undercover operation on which Doyle has been sent is seamier than most, just a little twisted, and the first seduction is his. The second occurs when Bodie visits him as he prepares one night for his role. And the third – well the third may be the end for both of them. Sebastian adds a touch of poetry to everything she writes, and this is imbued with a kind of velvet hush, and the whisper of leather in the dark…

2009

I volunteered to rec this fic after someone had recced Kitty Fisher's Monopoly I think, because there was discussion about what was good bdsm, and whether it fit into B/D's lives and so on. It eventually occurred to me, after the discussion (of course!) that Velvet Underground brings bdsm into the lads lives in a way that is completely believable to me, not because the author explains that it fits in with their lives in this way, or that they need it because of that, but because she builds up the atmosphere of needing it so beautifully - or rather, the atmosphere of being tempted by it, of being dragged out of the mundanities of everyday life where pain is a very solid and unpleasant thing, and transforms that. She doesn't spend time examining the realities of it all (what would it feel like to be whipped, well surely it would hurt, so why would you want to?) - she assumes that we can work that bit out for ourselves. Sebastian does what every author I adore does - she takes us beyond what we can work out for ourselves.... This is something else I've been thinking about (again, with the debate over warnings, and the furore over the last season of Torchwood etc) - when a writer gives us characters who aren't perfect, who are not just flawed in a way that makes us want to make it all better, but who are flawed in a way that makes us know we should dislike them, somehow, or threatens to take away our adoration because the flaw is... too real. In Velvet Underground, the lads choose something dark and almost sordid - and they don't choose it and then tell each other how much they love each other anyway, they are both discomfitted by it, they're disturbed and yet they're not strong enough to deny themselves either, to "do the right thing". They might be lying hand in hand at the end, and equals once more - a little bit of comfort for us - but the two worlds have become one, and while there's a touch of desire and dark magic still, the stormswept world of depravity where the Master now ruled, there's also a reminder that they have to live in both worlds as one now, And that was the end of innocence. I'm really curious to know how other people read this story - I could talk about what I now find a slightly odd characterisation of Doyle by Sebastian too (which took me a long time to recognise, in fact) or about all sorts of other things to do with this fic, but mostly I think it's a fic about how things feel rather than what happens, and about the way feelings and reality have to come together in the end... Or is that me, trying to get too deep? *g*

Also, Sebastian includes brief author notes for each story [at her site], always interesting to read. The note for Velvet Underground explains the inspiration for the story, nothing that I would consider overly-determinate in setting a path for this story discussion.

nothing that I would consider overly-determinate in setting a path for this story discussion.

Jolly good, because I'm afraid I'm one of those people who doesn't necessarily think that an author's thoughts or intentions are what fuels a story once it's been read by someone else... *g* I did remember that Sebastian had story notes up, but I was hoping primarily to talk about the fic itself, rather than Sebastian herself, and I think reading author commentary does rather turn a discussion to the author rather than anything else - not that it's not interesting too, so if people would rather do that, that's fine as well... *g*

What do you think of the story itself?

I admit I was a bit put off by the insistence of how horrible what they were doing was. The writer seemed to be determined to let me know that neither man could help themselves in this situation. Almost forcing each other to do it, yet hating it every second. I prefer stronger characters who know what they want and aren't ashamed to admit it. The image of Doyle in high heeled shiny boots put a Flamenco dancer (actually more Eddie Izzard!) in my head and I couldn't get rid of it. So not how I see or want to see Doyle.

neither man could help themselves in this situation. Almost forcing each other to do it, yet hating it every second.

Yes, and that's something I rather like about it - I have trouble with characters who have no flaws, to be honest, because I don't believe there's a single person in the world who's that perfect, and so I rather like a little self-doubt and worry, especially against something that was very much against the mores of the time.

In fact I'd find it harder to believe in a Bodie and Doyle who did know exactly what they wanted (each other, bdsm) and weren't ashamed to admit it, because I think that would probably have been incredibly rare amongst men of their generation - maybe not inside themselves, but because they would be struggling to keep it secret in order to fit in with society, and because there's nothing canon in the eps about it - and if it's not there, then they must be keeping it a secret, and if they're keeping it a secret then it could very plausibly be because they're unsure in some way. To me that's really interesting - the struggle against ourselves. Watching someone going out and taking what they want is... I sort of think good for them, but it's as if there's no need for me to follow their story any more, you know?

I'm afraid I don't like this text at all. I like sebastian very much, but this text is really painful to read, and I don't get anything out of it... except a aching gut and teary eyes.

I don't like this Doyle that sebastian writes, and Bodie is just to weak for my taste... I like plots and story twists, but the most important thing for me is the characters and what they feel and think... and this time I just couldn't buy into the characters at all. It was like I wasn't reading about Bodie and Doyle at all, but two other characters that I didn't know...

The plot about the darker side and bdsm is good and believable. I like how sebastian tell us about it from the darker side and how it can grab hold of you and change you... and all the thoughts about that... but I still would have liked it more if sebastian had wrote about some original characters instead of B&D.

I can't believe it because this text to me is to angry and to viloent, and I have a big trouble with the boys being mean to each other. And I don't mean that they can't shout or fight, I just meant that this text is to focused on the bad and that got to me.

Well, maybe not exactly weak, but a little too... crap, I can't explain, but I just see him as a man that puts up with no bullshit and that last thing with Bodie "forcing" Doyle to have sex... *shudder* - I agree that Bodie does almost anything Doyle wants him to, but I think even Bodie have bounderies he doesn't cross and situations he just doesn't put himself into.

Sure Doyle has the worst temper and Bodie can be pig-headed, but I still don't see them doing it towards each other like this. Bodie is pig-headed about cases and personal stuff, but not about Doyle... if he doesn't have to save Doyle's life ofc... And Doyle have a temper that affects them both, and he can turn it against Bodie at occations, but nothing they can't work through. Bodie is too "soft" to let Doyle hurt him too much, he would probably have one thing or another to say to Doyle in that case, and Doyle is too "hard" to let Bodie get away with just anything.

And that about sex. Sure they are close, but not like that. I can't imagine Doyle getting obsessed about something so dark... He's to much the opposit to me. Bodie is more dark than Doyle in that case. They both would probably feel jealousy if they were together and playing around with other people, and it maybe could come to blows over that. But it still not that dark side of the coin. I have nothing against bdsm. I just have something against it being something dirty and dark.

Sebastian does make them a little mean to each other - I've definitely said that in other places about her Doyle, who I think she makes a bit too selfish and mean and spiteful in alot of her stories (like this one, with the cheese toastie) - but I didn't think the bdsm was them being mean to each other - more like it was the thing that actually pulled them closer together...

Hmm.. yeah, but Sebastian usually makes the characters different, but in an interesting way... *thinking*

I can understand why you don't think it's rape and maybe it isn't... It's just that with the darker theme and all I don't get a good feeling about that last sex scene. Maybe it's because I don't understand that kind of sex, or maybe I just don't like this text. And maybe it's wrong to say that Bodie raped Doyle or the other way around, but something about that scene just strikes me as not good.

I read with my feelings, as my mother said, and that's why some texts sticks and I love them forever, and some just poke me in the eye and I dislike them forever instead. If I get a bad feeling when I start; that feeling will stick all through the text, and if the tone doesn't change, neither does my feelings for the text.

I like some of the darker Pros fics - but I'm not sure what you class as dark and not. But the lads being mean to each other with no happy ending is just a big "no no" to me.

Ah, yes I'm perfectly happy to read darkly themed stories like this one. What do I call "dark"? Hmmn - stories where the outcome is in doubt, where there might not be a happy ending. (There might be a happy ending, but you can't tell for sure because the characters are drawn in such a way that they aren't "heroes", you're not sure that they will choose the "right" path, as a "hero" would).

Or... perhaps that's a darker fic - where the characters are drawn in such a way that they aren't "heroes", you're not sure that they will choose the "right" path, as a "hero" would. Yeah, I think that's perhaps closer, although it's hard to define in many ways... M.Fae Glasgow's stories are often dark fics, because she isn't afraid to explore the lads as flawed human beings (and I suspect that's why alot of people say they don't like her stories). Other authors/stories that are more or less "dark": Helen Raven, often Sebastian (but not always). "Angel in the Dark" by Thomas. Most Gwyneth Rhys stories, I think. Castalia.

Interestingly, some authors can deal with dark themes (death, betrayal etc) but not write "dark fic" - for example "Third Week in October" by Dana Austin Marsh deals with some potentially dark subject matter, but I don't think it's a "dark fic"...

This was one of the first Pros fics I read, so I've had to re-read it. And of course I respond to it differently now.

The musical inspiration I would gladly do without. The Velvet Underground lp is one of my treasured possessions, but this just doesn't match my image of 'Venus in Furs'. At least I didn't think so, but now I think the coda actually does have some of that song about it.

I like best the way Sebastian creates such a strong mood and atmosphere. It doesn't seem realistic, almost fantasy, rather overwrought, but it is stylish.

I like least the idea that Doyle's sexuality could be permanently changed by his relatively brief experience on an undercover op. And Bodie's by one experiment (surely, the coda describes "the dark unmentionable sin" from the past they can't talk about but can't escape). Still it is all good for the doom-laden gothic effect.

I’m not sure I really understand this story. I have more questions than answers. My main one is, are Bodie and Doyle already lovers? The answer to that would impact on how I would interpret the story, but I can’t work it out. They are lounging on Doyle’s bed together so I was presuming they were, but the sex/rape scene seemed to indicate they weren’t.

There were many things that I found disturbing about this story and I found it hard to follow. The writing itself was so ‘lyrical’ that I lost track of the story amid the prose.

I can’t understand Bodie’s anger. To my way of thinking he’d be more inclined to laugh about Doyle’s lingering involvement/interest in BDSM. We know Bodie has an irreverent sense of humour and I think he’d find the whole situation quite funny and tease Doyle to no end. [I’ve actually used Bodie’s reaction of laughter to a BDSM bust in a fic I am currently writing]

Doyle in a cape with rusty bells on the hemline? Well, I’m sure there’s someone out there who might find that hot, but to me it almost comic.

I also can’t accept the idea that: Doyle brooded and did not forget. Certain telling little events made Bodie uncomfortable to remember them: the former colleague, for instance, Doyle had never forgiven for making him look foolish in some prank years ago, languishing now in some forgotten hellhole, never knowing whose word in whose ear had had his minor drugs charge made an example of. Nothing illegal, not even unfair: it was simply that extenuating circumstances did not enter into Ray Doyle’s scale of justice, and mercy was not his style.

Is this the same man that has the Disiderata on his wall? “Go placidly amid the noise and haste….” I don’t think so.

I’m not familiar with the inspirations for the story so I really can’t tell if Sebastion achieved what she set out to do. I’m all for experimental writing but the inspiration has to fit with the characters. Not everything works together….and I think this is the case here.

The writing is beautiful and lyrical, technically intriguing, so much so that I was pulled along by it, while all the time, a little voice was saying, “beware, beware,”. By the time I reached the climax the alarm bells were ringin and it was like passing a bad accident - I knew it was going to be nasty but couldn’t look away.

It was an interesting piece but it left wondering who ARE these men? Certainly not the Bodie and Doyle that I know and love.

Sebastion says "Doyle looked sweetly ripe for rape"

Yes, but considering the context it's clearly not meant to be literal. There's no suggestion that Doyle fights, Doyle was the one who tempted Bodie, they lie together afterwards hand in hand etc. Doyle's tears were because he too recognised that their relationship had twisted into something darker than it could have been, that they may not be able to change it now. It wasn't the act of rape that was unpleasant for either of them - if it had been, then the story wouldn't have continued with them moving more deeply into bdsm together - it was that they had both been unable to resist that temptation, they'd been lured to something "not normal"/"darker" in their relationship.

Rape in Prosfic is an interesting issue, actually - there seems to have been a period of writing where almost every author included a reference to rape in their fic, in one of a number of contexts including: that they'd had rough sex, but it could never be rape because it was consensual; some twist along the lines of "he didn't realise what a temptation to rape he was" (usually Doyle). Personally I think it's women exploring the then-very-current issue of rape through slashfic, but I also think it's a topic for a whole dissertation! Sebastian does it, O.Yardley, H.G., and many many others. They're not writing rape fic, but they use the word when considering sex, which I think is really interesting, socially! Anyway... *g*

Sometimes - I was a bit worried about how easily I could accept to read about gay sex a few years ago. There was never something disgusting for me when I read the first fics! – although it’s for sure that it’s not common knowledge...

But that SM stuff IS disgusting for me! That is more – in a negative sense – than another kind of trust, love, need, desire, even desperation. It’s destroying. I’m happy that there are boundaries for me, that the ‘power of words’ is limited and that even a good author ‘can’t sell me everything’!

I don’t need that stuff!

Interesting to hear you say that you think fanfic and the "power of words" made you accept the idea of gay sex - am I understanding that right? I'm glad to hear that you didn't find slash stories disgusting! I'm a bit surprised to hear you say that "it's not common knowledge" though - do you mean that it's not so acceptable to be gay, in Germany? Or just that you and people you know hadn't come across it before? I know that while I was completely open-minded about sex/gay sex/any sex (*g*) etc before I found Pros slash, it wasn't something I'd read much about, or come across much - my world just hadn't gone in that direction. But when I did start reading, I was very happy to have my world expanded just that little bit more... *g*

Literary exercises like this and others that come to mind are wonderful for writers, but can leave readers behind if they don't know the background. The writing is beautiful, the imagery wonderful, but I find it hard to connect it to Pros.

This is a Sebastian tale I have trouble with. She's a very skilful writer (and coincidentally a published one, not that that necessarily means anything, but I do think that in her case it's because she's good!), and she's the author of some of the stories I absolutely love and admire most in the fandom, stories that I think are really stellar in every way. But in some of her tales I feel that she is more enamoured of the sheer craft of writing than she is of B&D - and this is one of those. I think I would have enjoyed this more as a tale of OCs - I note what BSL says above, about the way she takes traits that are there in canon but takes them to extremes, but overall I personally couldn't "see" enough B and D in these characters to feel that they were who their names say they are. There are some Prosfic with bdsm elements - sometimes major elements - that I like a lot, but I don't go for real bdsm in fics for its own sake. So given both of those things (which I'm quite happy to admit could say more about me than about the fic!) this is one I haven't succeeded in getting into. Which is what the Reading Room is all about, to some extent - getting us to read things we otherwise might not have! Colour me intrigued but not moved, perhaps *g*

it seems as though Sebastian has put the literary exercise ahead of canon/fanon

Ah, but to me she keeps them pretty much within canon/fanon... *g* (Although actually I don't think we should keep characters within "fanon" - to me the only rule is the show itself. "Fanon" has Doyle about half the size of Bodie, a copious weeper, and perpetually on heat, and it has Bodie as a perpetually-mysterious hero with a square chin and a perfect line in black humour. Now fun as all those things can be in a very occasional kind of way, I do not want all Prosfic to turn into that!)

She's writing in a more stylised manner here, perhaps, although actually she does similar things in other stories, in different ways...

You should read more Sebastian - no one can really tell you whether it's typical except you, since we clearly all have different ways of reading her! I think she stretches canon characterisation, especially in Doyle's case, but she does keep it tied to canon as far as I'm concerned (see comments above and below). I think she's taken the lads and melded them very well with her "literary exercise" here, so to me it didn't jar at all. Her characterisation here is similar to her characterisation of them in other stories - including Wonderful Tonight, where I seem to remember them playing at sounding, which isn't exactly vanilla, either - and again, Sebastian is exploring a hint of kink in their sexuality. Oh, and their play-acting too, and Bodie's reaction to Doyle in women's knickers, and... No, I don't see anything unusual about Velvet Underground when compared with other stories Sebastian has written!

I disliked this story reading it the first time, and disliked it again scanning it again now. To me, it doesn't work on any level. The writer (who I usually like, and who has written some of my favorite stories) shows no understanding of the basic concepts or dynamics of BDSM in the context of a relationship, and indeed, the portentous, doom-and-gloom tone is actually funny to me. So much melodrama for so little reason. One of Sebastian's rare misses, but a miss nevertheless.

2010

...it's the kind of story that really highlights the labeling issue. Call it bdsm & you have (quite reasonably) people complaining that it isn't how it ought to be. Summarise it as "B&D get bdsm wrong" though, and you run the risk of defining the meaning of the story for everyone who reads it, and I hate that.

When Doyle gets deeply into a BDSM role for an op, Bodie takes him even further. The only story of this type Sebastian wrote, and it's the kind of BDSM story I most adore, suffused with eroticism and emotion. The fanciful imagery in the first line grabs me, and I'm off down the rabbit hole with the characters.

While her Doyle and Bodie are (for me) the lads I see on screen, she often spins their relationship -- or layers their characters -- in ways I'm unconvinced about. But I've reached a point where I trust her enough as a writer to simply relax and enjoy the ride.... I admit there are a couple of stories I'm not crazy about. Velvet Underground doesn't do much for me or Jungle Book, but overall I like almost everything she's done. Even when she's going in a direction I'm not that interested in, I find her explorations worth following (at least once). It's a relatively small body of work, alas.