Talk:Two White Guys
I think the example section needs explanation, especially who the more interesting character is the other character should be with and would be with (in fandom), if he were white. Otherwise it makes little sense for someone who isn't intimately familiar with the example fandoms. --Doro 06:28, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
While I don't really want to get into the more traditional Wikipedia-Wars, this article right now is a violation of a number of Fanlore policies about Impartiality and not valuing any perspective over another. If FanLore is to present itself as a resource for all fandom, it cannot be presenting value judgments about the worthiness of individual parts of said fandom, which this article is doing in several instances. "With canon basis" is the big red light, but I see a number of other instances where persons making the arguments should have been cited, rather than the article giving those opinions and values as fact. I would strongly urge those editors who have been working on this article to go back and edit in those quotes and relevant links. Make this what it actually should be: an article about how the community perceives Two White Guys, not an attempt to force a single accepted definition and a single accepted group of what pairings qualify. --Epilogistic (talk) 20:54, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
- Perhaps add the suggested wording/changes here? That would be a good start. In the meantime, I'll add the PPOV notice to the page. And last, please invite fans who might know more about the varied community perspectives to pitch in.--MeeDee (talk) 22:01, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
- I changed "basis" to "interaction" in the examples section which seems like a less inflamatory term and still conveys, what I assume, could've been the initial meaning. I didn't make the same change in the main body of the article, because it might involve some rewrites so that sentences make sense. I figured I consult the wording first. --Alex (talk) 22:16, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
Steve/Bucky and bucketing thoughts
The inclusion of Steve/Bucky on this list seems to be a meta argument in itself; my initial reaction, and FFA's, was instinctively, NO WAY, so it would be good to include citations for who has actually taken the position that Steve/Bucky is an example of Two White Guys, apart from actually being two white guys. My limited experience of shipping Steve/Bucky led me to believe that there was a lot of expectation before the film came out that Steve/Bucky would get its big break, since the plot as we knew it was going to be all about Steve/Bucky. (Mainly I read victoria_p's dreamwidth, so I could be wrong.) I'm sure race is a factor in Steve/Sam not being as popular as screen time would suggest, but the Steve/Bucky pairing is not a random pick. If Two White Guys is an argument made by Steve/Sam shippers, I think the page should say so.
Also I think the example groupings need to be resorted and rephrased. The current language is very hard to follow. I just changed the Derek/Stiles explanation, but am not familiar enough with the others to edit them.--aethel (talk) 02:35, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
- The Psych and Miami Vice examples both look like cases where the main duo is white char/POC, yet the main ship pairs the white character with a secondary character. I'm not sure the other examples in the same bucket match.--aethel (talk) 03:21, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
- Wait, Scott McCall isn't white? I never know how to figure these things out in American shows. :/ Also, I have no idea what the page is trying to say with all these examples. --Doro (talk) 20:55, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
- Tyler Posey, who plays Scott McCall, is half Latino; the fandom largely assumed that the character's race matched the actor's though Scott's race was never mentioned on the show. Then in either Season 3b or Season 4 Scott had a line asking his mom why she didn't change her name back to Delgado after her divorce, presumably making Scott canonically half Latino as well.
- As for what the page is trying to say with the examples. . . the last time I edited it, there was just a long list of pairing examples and a request on this talk page to give explanations of how the pairings were Two White Guys pairings for people who didn't know the respective canons, so I added what info I knew about their canon basis to explain why the pairings were perceived as Two White Guys pairings. But of course, they didn't all fit in exactly the same mold, so I broke them into sections based on the patterns I thought I saw. I'm not wedded to anything on the page, it was just my best attempt (without any handy links to intra-fandom shipping discussions) to make the page a little more useful than it was before. PhoenixFalls (talk) 00:53, 12 April 2015 (UTC)