Talk:Shota
I am only familiar with actual Japanese usage. If the meaning is different in English-language fandoms, please add to the page! --Kyuuketsukirui 15:08, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
I have heard the term used as shotacon, like lolicon, never with an m (yes, despite the shortening from complex.) Google gives me 157.000 hits for shotacon and 912 for shotacom. I'll research that, though ,so I can cite the actual etymology. --lian 15:49, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
- "The term "shotacon" is a Japanese portmanteau of Shōtarō complex (正太郎コンプレックス, Shōtarō konpurekkusu?), a reference to the young male character Shōtarō (正太郎) from Tetsujin 28-go.[1]" [1]oookay, I had this at the back of my head, that's it's due to the Japanese pronunciation. I'll change the page accordingly. --lian 15:57, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
- Japanese doesn't have an "M" as a single letter, even though the "N" is often pronounced as an "M" in front of a "P" and a "B" (just like in German, I might add). It depends on the rules you use to transcribe Japanese words whether you write it with an "M" or an "N". Personally, I prefer the N. The "M" at the end of the word just looks weird if it's a Japanese word. --Rodo 16:05, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
- Thank you. Could you have a look at the way I put it in the article and correct it, if needed?
- Kyuuketsukirui, could you add a note where/how the -com ending is used? (e.g., in which fandoms, in the US, or something?) Or you can just cite yourself, that's totally fine, but I think we should make it clear that there are two different pronunciations, and which is the rarer one. --lian 16:09, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
- I am fine with using n in the article if that is the more common romanisation. I just used m because it's short for complex. --Kyuuketsukirui 16:14, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
- I think the reason it's an 'n' is that we're borrowing the abbreviated form directly instead of borrowing the full form and then abbreviating in English. In Japanese, a nasal consonant before 'p' is always 'm'; at the end of a word, it's always 'n' (or a nasal vowel that's similar or something--point is, it's never 'm'). So the words are 'shotaru kompurekkusu' but 'shota kon' in terms of their Japanese pronunciation. The same thing happens with the other "X-complex" words: the abbreviated form is common in Japanese and it has the 'n' pronunciation. We borrowed the shortened version, ergo we spell it 'n'. (Which, now that I think about it, means I need to go change the edit I just did. Bad me.) Franzeska 21:35, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
IIRC, there's varying amounts of hostility in regards to shotacon/lolicon (it's banned on some sites, I think), and Wikipedia says that shota manga/anime is illegal in "Australia, Canada, Sweden, Norway, and South Africa" (and there's a possibly unconstitutional law in the US that illegalizes it too).
Does anyone more familiar with anime fandoms wanna weigh in on people's perspectives of it? --Etothepii 09:16, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
I removed the line "Its western equivalent is chan" because a few lines later it says "unlike the western term chan" which means it isn't an equivalent, it's just related. And the way chan is unlike shota is a pretty relevant bit because there is a huge difference between prepubescent and teenage characters having sex. --Doro 11:36, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
- But chan does refer to prepubescent characters. It may have started in TPM, with its archive rules of 15-17, but it has spread throughout fandom, and especially in HP, it often means prepubescent. It just refers to teenagers as well, which shota doesn't. --Kyuuketsukirui 18:34, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
- I always considered the two synonyms as well, and I'm from HP fandom. And I wouldn't think of calling a fic where the characters are older than 14 chan, I label it as underage instead, which at least to me refers to 14-18-year-olds. I remember there being a discussion on the definition of chan, but I can't find it at the moment. -- Rodo 18:46, 20 November 2008 (UTC)