I'm a "dyed in the wool" slasher but...

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Title: I'm a "dyed in the wool" slasher but...
Creator: Pat K
Date(s): March 24, 2006
Medium:
Fandom: The Sentinel
Topic:
External Links: I'm a "dyed in the wool" slasher but..., Archived version
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I'm a "dyed in the wool" slasher but... is a 2006 post by Pat K.

Some Topics Discussed

  • GarettVerse
  • The Sentinel
  • Sentinel RPF
  • public and private journals
  • worrying about the actors finding RPF/RPS about themselves
  • drawing the line between what fanworks are acceptable in fandom
  • policing one's own journal
  • controlling other fans

Related/Response Posts

The Post

there's something deeply disturbing about finding RPS that includes the two lead actors of TS, at least that's how I feel about it. I actually hoped (yes, I'm naive sometimes) that TS would be spared that particular variety of "slash". I'm feeling sick right now. Really sick, and this is something that doesn't happen often.

I don't like RPS including any real life person in any case because, for heaven's sake, we're talking living people here, not fictional characters who can't really feel hurt. Seeing it so "close to home", so to speak... I'm really... dismayed.

I know, I know, one could say "so just don't read it" but the simple *knowledge* that it's out there is enough to make me feel really uneasy and uncomfortable. I'm feeling very strongly about this right now, it's crossing a line that shouldn't be crossed - not with any real living people.

It's... scary, I guess. Thinking that out there are people who can't restrict themselves to playing with fictional characters but go for the "real" people behind the characters in their writing. I wonder if they have any boundaries left they won't overstep and I fear to discover they might not.

This is *so* not good.

PatK

...can't bring myself to add the usual smiley under my name right now.

Excerpts from the Post

[jessriley]: 'RPS' ... just at a guess I'm thinking 'Real Person Scenario'? Sorry for being so naive, but if that's the case I think naive could be a very good thing.

[patk]:

RPS means "Real People Slash". Stories that don't slash fictional characters but real people, usually the actors who play the fictional characters. It's very popular in some fandoms and I didn't even like it (to put it mildly) when it was *not* about the TS actors. I really hoped we would be spared that.

PatK

...still not up to add the smiley

[carodee]:

Ah, you've seen the Garettverse prompts over at highwaymiles. *rolls eyes* One person suggested all three prompts. Since she's a popular writer, her friends are likely to write her giftfics in her little series so there will be more. These at least are so obviously tongue-in-cheek Not Garett (although extremely derogatory with the characterization) that no one could for half a second see it as anything other than a joke.

With the prevalence of RPS and new fans coming in every day, we're probably going to see more of it. I don't think we'll ever see a huge amount of it in TS because GM and RB aren't teenybopper pretty, but sadly I think the blooper reels will inspire newer fans who've written RPS in other fandoms.

[patk]:

>>Ah, you've seen the Garettverse prompts .... Since she's a popular writer, her friends are likely to write her giftfics in her little series so there will be more. <<

Yes, indeed, I have. And it's exactly what I fear: that there will be more. Once this particular Pandora's box is open, I fear it will be impossible to put the lid back on again.

>>These at least are so obviously tongue-in-cheek Not Garett (although extremely derogatory with the characterization) that no one could for half a second see it as anything other than a joke.<<

You know, even if it's *meant* to be a joke, I'm still not laughing. I cringe everytime when I see a real person's name mentioned in connection to a RPS story, seeing it now popping up in my "home"-fandom gives me the urge to lock myself into the bathroom and do what I always do if I have swallowed something nasty and feel sick.

It's simply a very personal reaction of mine and one I can't help. I dislike RPS strongly in any way and have the opinion that one should strongly and distinctly differ between a real actor/actress and the fictional character(s) they played. If I have the feeling that one apparently doesn't care about this difference, it scares me because I picture this person either as callous or perhaps not even *able* to see the difference. I don't know which possibility is worse.

>>but sadly I think the blooper reels will inspire newer fans who've written RPS in other fandoms.<<

So far, it didn't happen - or at least I didn't notice - up to now and I was perfectly happy with this status quo. The blooper reels are out there for a long time and newbies pop in all the time, up to now I was really glad that even the newcomers seemed to have the decency of not going into that particular direction.

PatK

[carodee]:

Once this particular Pandora's box is open, I fear it will be impossible to put the lid back on again.

Exactly. Only thing that can be done is not respond to the RPS. No feedback; no discussion; hollow echoing sound of fic dropped down the fandom well. It won't stop it entirely, but lack of squeeful kudos will take a lot of the fun out of it.

Outright condemnation will probably make it transgressive and cool (with shocking us old farts the cherry on the sundae). Not that I'm ever going to tell anyone what they can and can't write, but I do get to choose what I'll read and FB. *wields the mighty sword of attention-withholding* *g*

[patk]:

>>No feedback; no discussion; hollow echoing sound of fic dropped down the fandom well. <<

Well, that would most likely be the best policy and I'm surely not planning on taking this anywhere else than my own LJ.

>>Outright condemnation will probably make it transgressive and cool (with shocking us old farts the cherry on the sundae).<<

*g* Now *that* comment made me at least grin again. What can I say, it came on top of my usual dislike of RPS in general and where to vent if not in my own LJ. *g* But in the light of what you just said, it might even be the best to delete the whole entry. *g* But seriously, I think it's too late for that. If there's someone who writes it, there will always be someone who likes it and encourages the writer.

I just hope it won't have a chance to put down roots in the bigger area of fandom.

And for being an old fart. *g* Well, I *am* an old fart and I haven't the slightest clue how old or young the writers/suggestors in questions are and frankly, I don't care because in my view, I don't see probable young age as an excuse for the lack of sensibility (or the inability to see the difference between "using" fictional characters and real people) that writing RPS indicates.

Realizing what you're doing and then acting responsible - *that's* what I call cool since it involves the use of a brain.

Shocked? No, I'm not exactly shocked by that, I'm simply disgusted. I hoped it wouldn't happen, *sigh* but apparently I had too high hopes. *g*

>>Not that I'm ever going to tell anyone what they can and can't write, Neither do I, but I *am* allowed to say what I think of it. *g*

>>*wields the mighty sword of attention-withholding*<<

*gives Caro the whetstone*

PatK

:-)

[carodee]:

But in the light of what you just said, it might even be the best to delete the whole entry.

Oh, I totally didn't mean this post. I had more in mind, for example, kete's attempt to start up a comm for no-holds-barred fanfic discussion. Fine in theory; in historical practice, an enormous source of bad feeling within TS fandom. So few TS people were interested in having that on LJ, that she couldn't get anyone else to play with her. No one flamed her or told her she couldn't do it; people just didn't participate.

I just hope it won't have a chance to put down roots in the bigger area of fandom.

Well, so long as the demographic remains mostly older fans, we can certainly delay it for a few more years, but you're probably right that there's no stopping it completely.

I don't see probable young age as an excuse for the lack of sensibility (or the inability to see the difference between "using" fictional characters and real people) that writing RPS indicates.

I agree with you, but I've seen meta discussion about this and apparently more and more of the younger fans are not seeing the difference. *shrugs* Those damned kids! Back in my day... *shakes cane fiercely*

*gives Caro the whetstone*

Aw Pat, how sweet. Thank you. *grind grind*

[garettgal]: Your comments about no feedback, no discussion make good sense and I went back and deleted my one line post. Why dignify the spiteful, meanspirited and downright malicious post by commenting on it (apart from here of course:D)

[arnie1967]:

There's a whole Garettverse thing going on?

Uh...

Ew.

RPS really isn't my thing. It just seems like a step too far for me. Definitely too squicky. :o(

[sinaida]:

I actually hoped (yes, I'm naive sometimes) that TS would be spared that particular variety of "slash".

That was my hope, too. :-(

[patk]:

Actually, I want to go and buy any person who writes RPS a few hours of therapy to make sure they realize what they're really doing in all public. I can't help but think that the lines between "real life" and "fantasy" are too blurred for them to realize it on their own.

The Internet is a powerful medium and personally I always try to behave and go by the rule "Would I like to see that thing - that I'm doing right now - done to myself, my parents, my SO or my best friend?"

And RPS is definitely *not* within the range of a "yes"-answer.

[juleself]:

The problem is... it's done in a lot of fandoms for years already. Some people even rose it to an artform and have a considerably large audience. RPS isn't a new problem. And neither is the blurring between the lines. And as long as someone is doing it and actually receives cheers instead of scolding, there will always be people inspired to try it as well.

The Internet is a powerful medium and personally I always try to behave and go by the rule "Would I like to see that thing - that I'm doing right now - done to myself, my parents, my SO or my best friend?"

And RPS is definitely *not* within the range of a "yes"-answer.

I think some people really don't see it like that. For them, it's playing around with a public persona, but not really with the live person behind it. For them, it is a fantasy. That's the only way I can really explain it without assuming everyone doing it is sick in the head. I know a few people who write RPS... I just ignore it most of the time. Maybe I should ask them about it?

My biggest problem with this special case is the 'humor' behind it. Is it supposed to be a parody on RPS? Do they try to mock everyone who writes RPS and the whole fandom as well? Me wonders...

[patk]:

>>it's done in a lot of fandoms for years already. ... RPS isn't a new problem. And neither is the blurring between the lines.<<

I'm well aware of that, T., but up to now I didn't feel the urge to tell the "whole world" how I feel about it. Seeing it popping up in TS was just the straw that broke the camel's back. *g*

>>there will always be people inspired to try it as well.

Every action that gets a positive response will be strengthen the behavior in question and lead to continuation in order to get *more* positive response. I think it's basic behavioral psychology.

In this light, Caro's comment about not reacting to it directly in either way makes absolutely sense.

>>For them, it's playing around with a public persona, but not really with the live person behind it. <<

Yes, that's most likely the case, but it doesn't change the "fact" that there *is* a live person behind it. It just says something about the, in my opinion limited, perception of RPS-writers. And there's the rub - the inability to acknowledge that an actor is *not* a fictional character but a person that lives on this planet and - if a crazy twist of fate would happen - could one day stand vis-a-vis from them and look them in the eye.

I think if one day a slashed person would contact a RPS writer and ask "why did you write that about me", it would be a real wake-up call. Not likely that this will happen, but I would be interested in the reaction. *g*

>>For them, it is a fantasy.

T., there's nothing wrong about having fantasies, even if they include real people, but in my book there's something fundamentally wrong about making it public on the internet as long as a real person is involved. I can't help it, but to me it feels somewhat "stalker-ish". I find it creepy.

Everyone can fantasize about whatever he or she wants. It's the actual *action* that counts in my book. If one can't restrict oneself from crossing a certain line in their actions, that lack of self-control is creepy, at least it's the way it feels to me. If one doesn't even *sees* that line...

>>Is it supposed to be a parody on RPS? Do they try to mock everyone who writes RPS and the whole fandom as well?<<

I haven't the slightest clue.

PatK

:-)

[vamysteryfan]:

I stumbled across the Garettverse a while ago and never mentioned it because I hoped it would go away. I suppose it's meant to be funny and doubtless the writers would mock me for not having a sense of humor. But it's not funny. It's extremely meanspirited.

I really hope Garett never finds out about it. He's had a tough enough time with some whacked out fans as it is.

[patk, the quoted lines are from a deleted post]:

>>sorry for butting in

My LJ isn't F-locked, which means strangers are welcome to comment as long as things don't get out of hand, no need to be sorry for speaking up here.

>>I just feel bad because I just recced a prompt from the highwaymiles on my lj - I didn't know at the time what the Garrettverse was <<

First I want to make it perfectly clear that I don't have anything against highwaymiles in general, why should I, after all I was there to see what prompts where given since I like fanfiction. It was discovering the RPS-prompts about the TS-actors that dismayed me, but you know this since you've already read the comments on this post. >>a very cheerful, surreal sort of prompt (owls??).

Well, the owls aren't exactly the surreal part. I take it that you know by now that this particular prompt obviously was build around the annual event that takes place at the Moonridge zoo, a facility that rescues and saves animals which can't survive on their own in the wilderness anymore. An event that is very much appreciated and supported by a lot of TS-fans, last but not least because GM feels comfortable enough there to attend the annual event and meet fans, sometimes even bringing family-members along. The "auctioning" of animals is one part of raising money for the zoo.

>>I was thinking of taking the post down where I mentioned it.

This is, of course, up to you but you have my respect for thinking about doing so, all the more if you actually followed through with that idea.

>>I'm a new Sentinel fan, and I wouldn't dream of writing RPS for it

I'm glad to welcome a new fan and I hope you'll find the fandom in general friendly and welcoming. :-) And I have to say I'm relieved to hear you say that you're not interested in writing RPS for it. *g* Now *that*s a surprise - to hear me say that, isn't it? *g*

>>because I don't see that it affects the actors' lives (unlike camera stalking, say.) If it did - say I knew of a case where an actor felt unable to appear in public because of harassment from slashers - I would feel terrible.<<

With the internet being what it is, a medium that spreads infos wide and far very fast and being accessible for anyone with a computer and the knowledge how to use it, the possibility of the "target" discovering this kind of stories and feeling affected *is* a possibility. The more of this kind of stories out there, the more likely the possibility becomes. RPS doesn't stay in "closed" groups (and where everyone can join, after all), it finds it's way to "normal" websites too and if there's enough RPS on an actor out there, it's only a matter of time to stumble over it.

By now you've certainly seen how I think about RPS so, no need to explain that again, but this "worst case scenario" you mentioned is a possible result of RPS in the long run - and one I would hate to see happen. I won't wait until it *does* happen before I start to dislike RPS for *that*, I'm disliking it already and this scenario is just one reason among many.

Aside from that, I dislike the idea that actors/actresses might become reluctant to interact with fans on a somewhat more "private" level (such as the relatively small Moonridge event, for example) because they might never know what is made of their behavior. I imagine this kind of event becomes very difficult when a person gets the feeling that he/she has to "monitor" his/her behavior constantly and has to be careful about what they do, say or how they look at whomever because a RPS writer could take it and run with it.

>>I'm just mentioning that I read it so as to be honest about where I'm coming from, not to be aggro in any way. <<

I appreciate your honesty and didn't take it as aggressive.

>>I guess I sort of wanted to apologize to someone at random, since I was feeling bad about the Garrettverse thing, <<

Well, as I see it, you didn't create or claim these prompts, right? So you haven't to apologize for them but it is very considerate and nice of you nonetheless. Thank you for this, I really appreciate it. So, thank you for that. :-)

PatK

:-)

[cmshaw]:

*hugs pat gently*

i certainly don't want to get you to like rps -- i have no interest in it myself, so that would be awfully silly -- but i'm afraid it's a slashers' taboo that was broken years ago and it probably isn't going to go away again ever. when i was upset about it, some people offered me different ways of looking at it so that i began to understand it as far less intrusive and offensive than i'd originally thought. the most useful one, for me, was seeing it as tabloids for slashers: a parody of celebrity gossip and not in fact fanfiction at all. i like tabloids even less that i like rps (which is to say, i pretty much hate tabloids) but i've had to accept that they're out there for people who like that sort of thing....

("Would I like to see that thing - that I'm doing right now - done to myself, my parents, my SO or my best friend?"

i can completely understand why you feel this way...but you do know that there are slashers who like having rps written about them, yes?)

[starwatcher]:

there's something deeply disturbing about finding RPS that includes the two lead actors of TS

Agreed, 110%. I had no idea it was around; like you, I had thought (hoped) that TS would be spared that particular perversion. Now that I know it's 'out there', I'm feeling a little sick, too.

I've tried reading a couple of RPS that were recommended to me as 'well done', just so I would have actual experienced knowledge to back up my aversion. I couldn't get past the fifth paragraph of either story, and these were people I don't even 'know' or watch. I backed out so fast, it wasn't even funny. Even before anything "happened" in the stories, it just felt WRONG, on a purely instinctive, gut-churning level.

There IS a difference between fictional characters and real people. We can make Jim and Blair do non-canon things and discuss motivation until the cows come home; that's fun. Writing RB and/or GM into situations and responses that we KNOW would not be acceptable to either man is just...

You know what it is? And this is a real reach -- but, we don't like men who force women into having sex. We even have a word for it, and it's a crime. I think this is the basis of my intense dislike; when someone crosses the line into writing graphic stuff about real people, that author is committing psychological rape on that real person, whether or not the "target" knows about it. Or at least, that's how I see it, I guess, according to my gut-level reaction. Therefore, I won't demonstrate acceptance of that psychological rape by reading RPS. I've become comfortable with a lot of formerly-squicky ideas since I started reading slash, but this is one line I can't / won't / refuse to cross.

[emrinalexander]:

Like RPS, don't like it, that's up to the individual. I happen to think it belongs behind a flock, period. I write flocked RPS in another fandom (and amazingly, my grasp of reality is pretty good, I am totally aware that the actors are, well, actors). Frankly the GVerse is a lot of things, the largest one being a load of crap, but I wouldn't even categorize it as RP - it's just mean nastiness, period. It's also very poorly researched, if at all, and the writing, if I want to be kind, is mediocre at best. I can't quite imagine what the point is, writing about a guy she obviously doesn't like at all, but I suspect she needs to get a real life that doesn't revolve around simpering people telling her how hip and edgy and cool she is.

That said, I'm equally disturbed about the commentary I'm seeing on this side of the fence. Because what I am reading, in the ensuing discussions, is a lot of people tossing around a lot of terms that are every bit as offensive as anything written in any of the RP stories.

And I've taken some time to really think about this, which is why I'm coming in so late to this, but *my* gut level reaction to your psychological rape analogy?

"Psychological rapists?" I'm sorry but I have to say, bluntly, that I find that opinion and mindset far more disgusting and disturbing than any RPS ever written. The accusation is the first time something in any fandom setting has actually, literally, turned my stomach. I was molested as a child and I underwent psychological abuse and you know what? RPS just isn't in the same ballpark.

[starwatcher]:

Like RPS, don't like it, that's up to the individual.

Which is exactly what I said. I gave it a try, didn't like it, said so.

I'm equally disturbed about the commentary I'm seeing on this side of the fence. Because what I am reading, in the ensuing discussions, is a lot of people tossing around a lot of terms that are every bit as offensive as anything written in any of the RP stories.

So the RPSers have a right to write what they want - which they do - but we don't have a right to express our opinions about it? That hardly seems fair. We are not traveling to the stories and threads in question, demanding that they put a stop to it. We are simply saying - in a separate space, which they can ignore if they choose to - that we don't like it, and are uncomfortable with the whole thing.

"Psychological rapists?" I'm sorry but I have to say, bluntly, that I find that opinion and mindset far more disgusting and disturbing than any RPS ever written.

This is totally MY opinion, how I react. Did you notice that I did NOT post this opinion in the thread in question? Though I don't like it, I do know that my likes or dislikes do not affect them in any way.

On the other hand, the originator of THIS thread has the right to express her own opinion in her own journal. And I have the right to contribute my opinion, subject to her rules of how she expects people to behave in her journal.

I was molested as a child and I underwent psychological abuse and you know what? RPS just isn't in the same ballpark.

I am sorry for that, and I understand what you mean. They aren't the same at all. But MY gut-level reaction is very similar. That's all I claimed, and it's still true for ME. I was also molested (though without the psychological abuse), and I didn't throw the term around lightly. I haven't run away from reality; I do realize that RPS and rape are not even in the same ballpark in terms of action and result. That doesn't change the sickness in the pit of my stomach when I try to read RPS (and I am speaking quite literally).

In short, I spoke strongly because I feel strongly. I am not insisting that other people should feel the same way, or that they should stop doing things I don't like. But I AM entitled to express my own opinion in an appropriate venue, which is what I did, and I stand by it.

[emrinalexander]: OHMYGOD, I'm rereading what I wrote and I'm embarrassed. I should never ever post anything at 4 in the morning, let alone on a week when I've had three hours of group therapy. Please just rewind the comment to where I said I think what's her name is, basically, "she's writing a load of crap over at GVerse," and forget the rest. HEAD DESK. You just managed, with two words, to hit one of my sure fire hot buttons, I'm so sorry. I should have also said that the arguments I read here and elsewhere have convinced me my inner squicky alarm re: RPS should be recognized and heeded; in short, I'm taking what I've got down and it is going away forever (not TS stuff, but anyway). I'm actually going to do a moritorium on writing at all for a while, I think.

[starwatcher]:

Accepted. I apologize, as well, for getting a little hot under the color. As you said, the laughing post that started the RPS discussion was just mean nastiness, period. I was probably reacting to that perceived nastiness when I worded my opinion so strongly, though my opinion remains the same.

But as PatK pointed out, she expressed her unease -and- her feelings are about the way said opinion is worded at some times and in some places, and you have as much right to your opinion as we do, of course. Unfortuntely, in my irritation over the 'nastiness' of the 'joking' in earlier thread, my knee-jerk reactions came into play. So I responded as if you were chastizing me, which you really weren't, instead of stating your own opinion, which you were. So yes, I read your post wrong, and responded to my interpretation, and for that I apologize.

You just managed, with two words, to hit one of my sure fire hot buttons, I'm so sorry.

Understood. We all have them; one of mine is ~ahem~ the perception that I'm being told what to do, so my reaction was snippier than it should have been. It just goes to show that we need to know our own hot buttons, and try to take extra care in how we respond.

I'm actually going to do a moritorium on writing at all for a while, I think.

I'm sorry to hear that. If writing gives you pleasure, why deprive yourself? This is a fairly minor kerfuffle; at PatK said, it has been debated before, and will be again. And (most of) the commenters have been careful not to point fingers at individual authors, no matter what they write. Think about it some more; maybe you'll decide that one type of fic doesn't affect the other, and you can still enjoy everything else.

Anyway, thanks for clarifying your response; I appreciate it.

[patk]:

>>I happen to think it belongs behind a flock, period.

Independently from my personal like or dislike, I agree with this.

>>and amazingly, my grasp of reality is pretty good, I am totally aware that the actors are, well, actors<<

Glad to hear that. *g* And I simply hope that most of the people who write or read RPS *are* aware of the difference of an actor or an actress being a real person and not the character they impersonate, perhaps even have character traits which are completely contrary to the series- or movie-character. From personal experience I know that not everyone out there is able to maintain such a clear line and it was somewhat scary to see that. So I'm honestly pleased to hear that you can. :-)

>>That said, I'm equally disturbed about the commentary I'm seeing on this side of the fence. Because what I am reading, in the ensuing discussions, is a lot of people tossing around a lot of terms that are every bit as offensive as anything written in any of the RP stories.<<

With "this side of the fence" I guess you mean the people who don't like RPS, right? The debate about RPS is probably as old as RPS, which is most likely as old as the "invention" of celebrities. I believe there have always been people who liked and others who disliked it. Since it's a topic that's heavily charged with emotions (as is most likely every topic that even remotely includes the question 'is a certain action/behavior okay from an ethical viewpoint'), said emotions flare high. And then it often happens that people start to say offending things about each other, instead of keeping focus of the topic itself, and at one point it isn't even about the topic itself anymore but only about two different parties "at war". Happens with religion, with politics, with ideologies and apparently also with the topic of RPS.

This RPS disagreement didn't start with my entry here and it sure as hell won't end with it. *g* It's been around for a long time and will most likely continue to be around for another long time. And every time a discussion starts about this RPS disagreement, some of the people involved in the discussion at whatever place will get carried away and start to call the other people names.

mab browne: I've known that there is TS RPS out there for a while, but like Caro, I do the "it does not exist" thing. I have folks on my flist who do RPS in other fandoms, and I sort of intellectually understand why, but emotionally it squicks the hell out of me. And I do worry for the interaction that the fans enjoy with GM cuz I'm pretty damn sure that he wouldn't like it at all.

[suziq]:

I'm coming in pretty late to this discussion, but the feelings I have are mirrored all through this post and it's responses. I hate rps and found "Garettverse" not long ago and while I don't like rps, I admit to enough curiosity to read one...and that was more than enough for me.

It's bad enough to write about Garett and Richard in this way (and I agree with the whole diatribe of emotions and opinions here against it), but the characterization of Garett was so beyond anything that I can even express my offense at. I mean, to take such a bright, lovely, wonderful man and representing him as a useless, spineless, whiny, horrid joke of a man who is literally crawling after Richard, who is his own version of yuck...it made me so ill I just wanted to hurl.

Not only do I think Garett would be horrified at it, I think he'd be incredibly hurt and that just makes me fighting mad that anyone thinks this is fucking funny. It's not and no, to any of them that might read this, I do Not need an adjustment to my sense of humor - they need a fucking clue bus or ten to hit them. It's meanspirited, crude, cruel, ugly and unnecessary. I agree we can't start a war over it...it won't stop them and it would likely elevate it higher than it already is...but damn it's hard to see it out there for anyone, Garett included, to find.

*hugs Pat* Your post about the REAL Garett was lovely. Let's just hope he never finds out about this mess.

[cheeky duckie]:

My very first experience with slash was RPS; I wrote it for something between six months to a year, and after a while it just got sort of boring, and I stopped and moved on to... well, everything else.

But I can see both sides of the argument; yes, these are real people, but to most people they aren't accesible, and as good as fictional. It may seem on the rude side to write them like you'd write fictional characters, but I don't believe the argument that it hurts them somehow when RPS is written -- how different is it than the 26-year-old woman goin' to town with a fantasy about the actor in her bedroom?

(I'm not trying to pick a fight, honest; I guess I'm just curious about the holier-than-thou disgust. ^^')

[patk]:

>>I guess I'm just curious about the holier-than-thou disgust.

Nothing wrong with being curious and looking for the "why's" behind other people's opinions. Before I continue answering your comment let me explain that English isn't my native language. Which means, it may happen that my own comments don't make much grammatical sense or that I pick the wrong words and leave you with three big question marks over your head. *g* If that's the case, just let me know.

"Holier-than-thou" disgust. *Hm* That sounds as if you have the impression that I think I consider myself so high above other people that I can't even see their heads under me anymore. *g*

If that's the meaning of feeling "holier-than-thou", than making a point about feeling this way plus let "the world" know that I feel this was not my intention and certainly not the point I wanted to make with my entry. It's not even how I *do* feel.

What I *do* feel is a strong unease with RPS in general and deeply uncomfortable with RPS including the TS actors in particular. That are my feelings towards this particular genre. To the "why's" of this, I'll come later.

Of course, human being that I am, I also have general feelings regarding the general writer-population who write RPS and particular feelings toward authors who write TS RPS. Not a surprise, eh? *g* And of course, this feelings are strongly colored by my own perception and opinion about the genre they write.

It's mostly... desperation, in a way. Mixed with a certain amount of wariness and inability to understand the mindset behind RPS.

I see the RPS, how it uses the name of real people - who are living and breathing somewhere on this planet, who think and feel just as any other human being does - and I wonder whether they have given a thought to what they're doing with writing these stories.

I wonder if the authors have, at some point, pondered the topic of ethical issues in using real people and writing stories about them that deal publicly with deeply private matters such as their sexuality, matters they would perhaps not like to see "used" in a public medium.

I wonder if the writers have, at some point, tried to imagine which impact their stories might have on the feelings of the "used" people.

It's not so much about an actor/actress really finding these stories, I'm already bothered by the mere idea of the possibility of such a negative impact on them, no matter if they ever learn about it or not (though the possibility of finding out is, of course, there, especially with the internet).

Hard to explain. It's a "I know this would be something that might possibly hurt and disturb their feelings - therefore I choose not to do something that's possibly hurtful" kind of thing.

I think my personal feelings on this matter boil down to basically "I refuse to slash real people, not because I fear getting caught (by them actually finding out) but I don't want to do something that would possibly hurt someone's (the slashed person's) feelings out there. It feels wrong to do something that would cause such hurt unnecessarily just because I want to have fun".

And I wonder whether RPS authors have even given this idea a thought, no matter to which conclusion they came in the end. I see them "acting" (= writing) and I'm wondering if they *thought* about it before doing it.

tbc

[much snipped]

[cheeky duckie]:

You make plenty of sense; you have agood English skills. ^^ And I'm sorry if my tone comes off badly, both in my original comment and this one. I type like I talk, and the things I say often depend on the tone of voice I'm saying them in. So I'm going to try to be careful with my word choice. ^^;;

And I'm sorry for the lateness of the reply -- between work and school I haven't had the chance until now! ^^;

I think it's an irresponsible assumption to think that RPS writers don't think before they act because their writing is potentially hurtful. I'm not really going to argue to how ethical or hurtful RPS is or isn't, just because that's totally been round and round so many times that everyone knows that no one will ever agree. I guess what catches me about the opinion is how you seem to think the people who write RPS have no self-control, no respect to other people's feelings, and no sense of moral responsibility. Some of the nicest people I've met write RPS, and I don't think that painting them as unthinkingly hurtful people because they've taken up a route of writing you find personally object to. And I really don't blame you for that -- hell, I quit writing it because it made me feel awkward and it wasn't fun anymore. But because I don't like it anymore does not make the writers any more or less decent people.

And while I see the point in your newspaper analogy, I don't think it's at all the same thing, because a newspaper is on every news stand and right there in your face, but RPS is usually based on whether or not you're looking for it, or even know how to look. There are exceptions to that, but it's not as though it's a massive Google ad on a mainstream website, such as the National Enquirer in the checkout at WalMart.

Anyway, I do understand what you're saying, and I won't say that you're wrong, because you are entitled to your feelings, I just think that you take an unflattering view of RPS writers without taking any regard to what kind of people they are outside they write; it's a broad generalization, and I think that's all that really gets me about the post. ^^;

References

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