Talk:Victoria Bitter

I'm not sure how to do this page... I know VB was super wanky and lied a lot, so he may be lying about being trans, too, and just using it as an excuse, but I think it better to give him the benefit of the doubt and use male pronouns, or at least gender-neutral, idk... If he is trans and not lying, he deserves that much respect, regardless of what he did. --Kyuuketsukirui 12:54, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

I think VB should be referred to as "she" up until the point where s/he came out as Jordan Wood. After that point he would be appropriate, but not before. --versaphile 13:03, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm okay with that. I just remember there being people who deliberately refused to use male pronouns, even after his apology, so I wanted to get that out there in the beginning. --Kyuuketsukirui 13:30, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

I don't really remember the mess well or much at all really, so I think the sentence "Victoria Bitter later faked her own suicide repeatedly." needs some clarification. I mean, did s/he do multiple pseudocide of her/his sockpuppets strictly on the internet? multiple pseudocides of the same sockpuppet? faked suicide in RL? all of this?--Ratcreature 13:21, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Ze (I agree with Kyuuketsukirui about the gender-neutral pronouns, I just didn't think) claimed to be a bioman, not a transman. OB and VB both claimed (IIRC) that Jordan Wood was a bioman with a standard-issue penis (they stressed the penis) and not Victoria Bitter, who (they claimed) had committed suicide. Ratcreature, I think the suicide thing is blurred because of the RL aspect of the whole mess. For instance, right before Tentmoot was meant to start, OB told Turimel et al that Amy Player was in the hospital after a suicide attempt. Vassilissa 13:47, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I know there was crazy stuff going on there (the intellicock was an in-joke on FW for years after that), and if that's all it had been, I would just put it down to the usual fandom antics, but a few years later he did issue an apology and said he was trans. It could have been another lie and just a bid for sympathy, but I'm not going to make that judgement, esp. since to all appearances he has been living as a man this whole time. Ah, thanks to the good old FW wiki, here's his apology and expanation. --Kyuuketsukirui 13:59, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

If it was mixed RL and pseudocide, maybe it could at least say which identities faked their suicide or something like that? I mean, right now the article says that VB was a sockpuppet, i.e. as I understand it, and as the sockpuppet article explains not the main identity (sockpuppeteer?) but a secondary persona, and then whoever of the listed (if the main identity is listed and not just other socks) actually controlled said sock, killed the same pseud repeatedly in faked suicides. That doesn't make a lot of sense.--Ratcreature 15:08, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

If you want to talk timeline:

- Jordan Wood appeared, and OB claimed JW was a man, complete with genetalia

- Everyone who saw JW's photo went, hey, isn't that VB?

- OB claimed that VB committed suicide because OB left VB for JW

- Nobody bought that

- OB and JW then claimed that instead of killing herself VB had begun magically transforming--sex organs and all--into Elijah Wood.

- Cue Bit of Earth fraud/fiasco.

- In October of 2005, she and OB were stranded in Buffalo, New York, on their way to a new job in Toronto. It was there that she found God, and finally accepted himself as a transgendered man.

Given that timeline, VB was pulling her "watch me make things up to get attention" schtick all the way through until October 2005. For any events referenced after that point, it would be appropriate to use "he." Before that point, the claims of maleness were attached to physically transforming into Elijah Wood and other nonsense, and equating it with trans only gives trans a bad name. --versaphile 14:23, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Sockpuppet?

I'm not sure about the line that 'Victoria Bitter was a notorious sockpuppet' Surely the Victoria Bitter identity, if not the Jordon Wood or Mr. Frodo identity, isn't any more a sock than any fan's pseud? --Betty 14:53, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Good point. Change to sockpuppetteer? --Vassilissa 15:00, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Yes, that confuses me as well. If VB is indeed the main pseud (or actual name?) then it should be sockpuppeteer.--Ratcreature 15:10, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

And, well, unless she was maintaining multiple identities, to me, it's not sockpuppetry, it's just changing one's pseud without leaving a forwarding address. --Betty 15:12, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Though if I understood the timeline here on the talk page correctly the JW pseud was active during the VB pseudocide? So that is kind of a sockpuppet classic. Just the main identity, whichever that was, shouldn't be called a sock, IMO.--Ratcreature 16:03, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

question about redirecting the new pseud

Should Thanfiction and Andrew Blake just redirect here? Or should they be split. I mean, this page is about the wank and the issues, but I just looked at his DA page and his HP art is pretty good, and he's prolific, same for the ff.net page (I haven't read any of these), so I could imagine that eventually someone wants to talk about the fanworks not just about the crazy stuff.--Ratcreature 12:19, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

Renaming the page

I suggest renaming the page as the Victoria Bitter sockpuppet and all the wank connected to it is relevant to the LOTR fandom. If the page can't have a fandom tag if it's just a name, then it should be named Victoria Bitter wank or something like that because if there is one thing that should have a LOTR fandom cat, it's this. --Doro 19:17, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, that could work. I think we should have at least two pages, one for the LOTR wank that can get the LOTR category, and one for the fan, who seems to have generated more than one wank.--æthel 19:39, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

Or have a thanfiction page and cross-link them.--æthel 19:41, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

yeah, I think it might be good if he got the fan profile page under his more current pseud.--RatCreature 19:45, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

Making this page part of the Thanfiction page

I'd like to take the info on this page and make it a section on the Thanfiction page. Then redirect Victoria Bitter to it. Any objections? --MPH (talk) 14:47, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

I'm going to make a separate page for the wank/controversy and move that information there. --MPH (talk) 18:06, 4 May 2014 (UTC)