Talk:Steven Universe Critical
Organization + Sources
I haven't made a page for something like a "fandom war" before so I'm going to parse out how this should probably be organized here and maybe dump some sources here too. There was already a lot on the SU page about it but its been a bit and there's plenty to expand upon.
1.Summary (brief definition of the movement- su stans vs su crits)
2.History - Su crits (how it started, main people in the movement, main arguments) - Su stan response (how the fandom responded, main counter arguments) - Something about hindsight (modern posts describing the events)
3. Resources - videos, essays, art/memes (pearl hates the irish?) - Su Crit blogs + Su stan blogs
Zuke's Name
I have a question about how to present Zuke's first name here. While I'd in no way want to dead name them, and you can still Google "Jesse Zuke" and be met with Steven Universe related things, including links to articles using their deadname... would it be more clear, from an wiki point of view, to put in parenthesis next to their name "formally Lauren?" I ask because there a lot of old articles and posts that refer to Zuke by their previous name, so even though it is in poor taste to use a deadname, would the inclusion of just stating that old posts may use "Lauren" when they refer to Jesse be acceptable? And possibly help any readers unfamiliar with Zuke understand that old posts using that name are talking about the person now known as Jesse? Patchlamb (talk) 20:44, 10 December 2021 (UTC)
- I think it's best to just not use their deadname. People unfamiliar can (and should) work it out on their own. Harryhenry (talk) 08:24, 11 December 2021 (UTC)
- I'm not completely sure I would agree that a wiki should let people "work out information on their own," since a wiki's job is to educate and make topics clear to those unfamiliar with the topic- both now and when they read it ten years from now when context is no longer modern. I don't think there is any policy specific to something as delicate as deadnames, though there was a discussion regarding a Homestuck character a while back who had an unofficial deadnaming. Though I figure that discussion may not be equal to this one, since that was a character and this is a real person. I think I would like to hear multiple opinions on the topic. Particularly because searching Zuke's deadname brings up a handful of articles that still use their deadname, both in article text and references, so the situation is a little wider than the one time usage in this article. Would anyone else like to share their thoughts on this? Patchlamb (talk) 23:38, 13 December 2021 (UTC)
- I don't have a deadname myself, so keep that in mind, but would stating somewhere on the page or in a note that they have a deadname and that some of the links and articles may use it, without actually saying what it is work? I haven't really looked too thoroughly at the article to know who they are, but if there's some articles linked that reference their deadname, maybe also having a 'Deadname used for Jesse Duke' note on those articles would work. -- OfMonstersAndWerewolves (talk) 13:21, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
- That could work. There are definitively sources out there that use their deadname. I haven't checked too many of the sources Zuke is referenced in on other articles, but I know from first hand experience and a quick google search that a large majority of sources talking about Zuke are from around 2016 and thus do use their deadname, since that's what they went by back then. Does anyone think saying something in a ref/footnote along the lines of "some resources and past references, such as quotations and discussions of Jesse Zuke from 2016, may display or refer to them by their deadname, L. Zuke." Or would including the vague L be considered in poor taste, even though it's not outing their full deadname? Patchlamb (talk) 20:55, 21 December 2021 (UTC)
- I don't have a deadname myself, so keep that in mind, but would stating somewhere on the page or in a note that they have a deadname and that some of the links and articles may use it, without actually saying what it is work? I haven't really looked too thoroughly at the article to know who they are, but if there's some articles linked that reference their deadname, maybe also having a 'Deadname used for Jesse Duke' note on those articles would work. -- OfMonstersAndWerewolves (talk) 13:21, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
- I'm not completely sure I would agree that a wiki should let people "work out information on their own," since a wiki's job is to educate and make topics clear to those unfamiliar with the topic- both now and when they read it ten years from now when context is no longer modern. I don't think there is any policy specific to something as delicate as deadnames, though there was a discussion regarding a Homestuck character a while back who had an unofficial deadnaming. Though I figure that discussion may not be equal to this one, since that was a character and this is a real person. I think I would like to hear multiple opinions on the topic. Particularly because searching Zuke's deadname brings up a handful of articles that still use their deadname, both in article text and references, so the situation is a little wider than the one time usage in this article. Would anyone else like to share their thoughts on this? Patchlamb (talk) 23:38, 13 December 2021 (UTC)