Talk:Steampunk
Criticism and Fanwork
Right now this reads a bit odd because it has a section criticizing the genre that is immediately followed by a list of fanwork examples, which makes it look like "This is why liking it is wrong and here are people who like it anyway". A fan of the genre might feel that the criticism is unfair and remove sections instead of adding something to balance it out so this might be a great page to test the beautiful PPOV template. --Doro 21:17, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
- I'm not against putting it on this, though clearly it is very stubby. I mean, I like steampunk quite a lot (whichi is why I put a bunch of fanworks here, and not in the criticism section either), but I don't hang out much in steampunk comms, so I had no clue what to put in an introduction to the fandom aspects, except that I remembered seeing a bunch of meta about the genre's connections to colonialism and such, which I find important to consider, so I added those first.--RatCreature 21:53, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
- Oh, I agree that the discussions about colonialism are important and should be here on this page and this wasn't meant as criticism of your work (I actually checked my links and found that you have included every single steampunk story and piece of fanart that I've bookmarked *g*), it just reminded me of the other pages where we ran into this problem. The usual reaction there seemed to be to remove stuff instead of adding something to make it less stubby. Also, your PPOV icon is awesome and should be used. --Doro 22:06, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
Criticism
Dear gardeners, one of the quotes made me uneasy, the one that says about geeks being homesick and how it influences them to like to romanticize the Victorian era, in the context that that time was in favor of racism and slavery. I felt there that I could imply that every geek is in favor of such heinous acts. So I introduced a little note caution as exemplified below. Did I do wrong?
Ellakbhesse (talk) 14:37, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
SecurityBreach and Enchantedsleeper I would like your opinion. Ellakbhesse (talk) 14:39, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
- I think there is generally an understanding on Fanlore that quotes - it's usually made clear what their source is, and part of our Plural Point of View policy is about using wording that reflects the diversity of views in fandom, e.g. "Some fans believe..." and not "Fans believe..." (The former wording being preferable because it doesn't imply that every fan believes this).
- So while it's sometimes possible to add these informal warnings to Fanlore, I don't necessarily think we need to do this here - there is an understanding across the wiki that quotes are just quotes, not representative of all of fandom, and it's also possible to use the text that introduces the section to include that kind of nuance. --enchantedsleeper (talk) 15:34, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks for the clarification, I feel the steampunk page has received a lot of criticism rather than support and apparently the few arts that were there to exemplify it have been removed or do not exist. Reading the part about geeks being nostalgic so they like steampunk in the sense that it's wrong scared me a little. But I appreciate the correction. Ellakbhesse (talk) 15:58, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
- Which pieces of art were removed? If the links are broken, they may have been moved or deleted by their owners, but that happens a lot - not just with steampunk fanworks. We can always look for more examples! --enchantedsleeper (talk) 16:06, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
I think I'm a little lost here. But it would be really good to check how the links are, make archived versions and add gallery images. Ellakbhesse (talk) 16:08, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
enchantedsleeper my darling, when you are willing to do something, do it fully. Thanks again for everything you've done on this site and for your help when I get so wrong. Its addition in the Criticism section in Steampunk is invaluable. I tried to leave this comment on your own profile page, but it is closed to further edits. Ellakbhesse (talk) 16:35, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
- Thank you very much, Ellakbhesse! You weren't wrong at all; your question was a legitimate one and there's no problem with asking it ^^ I think there's lots of interesting potential for expanding that section, so please feel free to add any other relevant quotes you come across. (I was in steampunk fandom for many years, so it's tempting for me to go down a rabbit hole of adding more to the page XD Maybe later today...) --enchantedsleeper (talk) 16:39, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
In Brazil steampunk is quite famous (from what I see among friends and people I follow). We had literary anthologies on the topic, conventions about and for steampunk. I myself am passionate about the topic. We sometimes know it as vaporpunk, because of the use of steam engines. Wild wild west with Will Smith makes me ecstatic with the theme. The extraordinary alloy is also a good example. And Van Helsing who has a similar footprint? Many media works in the gothic, dark, vampire or werewolf genre can and often have a steampunk feel. Ellakbhesse (talk) 16:45, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
- Hi, sorry for chiming in so late, but I discovered this topic just a couple of minutes ago and now it looks to me like the issue has been resolved :D
- Anyway, since I've been asked I'd like to put my two cents in too. I agree with Enchantedsleeper that this is a case where the Plural Point of View policy applies. Fandom isn't a homogenious group and I think it's important Fanlore reflects this. I have often read conflicting opinions here and never felt they reflect the opinions of Fanlore, of all of fandom or, in some cases, even the editor who put it there.
- I also agree that the warning isn't necessary in this case: most fans who use Fanlore know it's part of the wiki's job to document as many facettes of fandom as possible, even if they don't feel comfortable about them. I appreciate the thought though; thank you very much for bringing the topic up. --SecurityBreach (talk) 04:06, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
Steampunk as fanwork AU versus fandom?
This is one of those pages on Fanlore that is pulling double duty as both a fan practice and a feature of fanworks. (We had the same issue with Telephones and Fandom, which was originally both about telephones as a facilitator of fandom and a motif in fanworks, the latter of which was split off into Phones in Fanworks). This page is mostly about steampunk fandom and the crafts, cosplay and conventions that come with it, but it also has a section for steampunk fanworks which I think would be better split off into a separate page, maybe called Steampunk AU.
Any thoughts? --enchantedsleeper (talk) 16:34, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
I agree with your idea enchantedsleeper|. I didn't know the pages you quoted, but stopping to think yes, the steampunk genre could and should be separated into a steampunk au, perhaps to help other members to better classify their works and those of others that are added here or mentioned. Could it be seen as a trope or genre apart? Ellakbhesse (talk) 16:41, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
- Right, so at the moment the Steampunk page is a glossary page, but I think we could turn it into a fandom page (using Template:Fandom perhaps) and then have the spin-off Steampunk AU page be a genre page. --enchantedsleeper (talk) 16:46, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
Yes. And just like Historical AU could it be doubly a genre and a trope? Or just a genre? I'm not sure how to define steampunk au. Ellakbhesse (talk) 16:48, 22 August 2021 (UTC)