Talk:List of Merlin Characters

Page Structure

We're on Fanlore chat right now discussing this point. If anyone's interested, please come over. the old briar pipe 17:51, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

We're afraid a straight alphabetical list will be too unwieldy and trying to figure out how else it could be organized. Buffy_the_Vampire_Slayer/Characters is helpful to look at but we don't think we can divide Merlin characters into Good/Evil as easily. Two ideas:

• main 6 or 7, then magical characters, then non-magical characters.
• main 6 or 7, then additional characters who appeared in both seasons, then additional season 1 characters, then additional season 2 characters. Sophinisba 18:00, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

Sophie, I liked your plan of separating it into additional characters who first appeared in S1, additional characters who first appeared in S2, etc. It allows for growth and requires the least amount of judgment imposed by the editors. the old briar pipe 18:26, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

Okay, the four people who have been in chat the last few hours like having three lists of characters, each in alphabetical order:

1. The main cast: Arthur, Gaius, the Great Dragon, Gwen, Merlin, Morgana, Uther.

2. Additional characters who first appear in series 1.

3. Additional characters who first appear in series 2.

Any objections or other ideas? It's a big list so we'd rather not do the rearranging more times than we have to. :) Sophinisba 19:23, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

For the record, I would like to have ONE list of characters, in alphabetical order, because that makes it a lot easier to find the character one is looking for. Having separate lists based on whether someone is a main character or appeared in this or that season requires canon knowledge and someone looking at a wiki, trying to find out more about the fandom and fannish interaction with a character they saw mentioned somewhere, doesn't necessarily have that kind of canon knowledge so they would have to check all three (or more) lists. --Doro 21:26, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

OTOH how likely is someone who wants to get an overview with no knowledge of the fandom to already know the name? I mean, I'm fairly agnostic about how to organize and wouldn't mind a simple alphabetical list, but I can see advantages for content-based organization as well. I mean, if you have the name you can always search in the page if it's very long to find in which section the character is, but if you want read the page as a whole it makes a lot more sense to address the main characters first at least, because those are likely to be mentioned in the overview of the other characters to explain how they relate to each other and what their role is. So if I read about Hunith before I read about Merlin that is less than ideal.--RatCreature 21:40, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

I can see the reason for that. However, sorting the characters based on when they first appeared in canon makes little sense to me. --Doro 22:14, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

Hm. I think the reason we finally settled on that out of all the suggestions was simply that most minor characters appear in a single episode and tend to be used in fanworks within that same series (or the hiatus after). So sorting by series allows users to see at a glance more characters who are interconnected in canon and who appear together in fanworks. At least, that was my thought. I don't know about anyone else. the old briar pipe 23:51, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

Spoilers

We initially put spoiler templates on a bunch of the character and pairing pages, but Frogspace took them off saying they aren't necessary this far after the end of the second season, and Briar Pipe said some other Fanlore regulars told her the same thing. I like spoiler warnings and would prefer to use them and see them used, but they're not useful unless it's done consistently. Is there a general policy about how far out they should be used. Sophinisba 03:15, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

I'm sorry to not have checked first. This particular just seemed so comprehensively spoilery that I felt it needed a warning. But if it's policy not to post it, no prob, just take it off. --msilverstar 04:23, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

There is no official policy either way, but they are rarely used. I think I would default to the fandom culture not the Fanlore culture to make the decision. If Merlin fandom usually puts spoiler warnings on things not yet aired in the US, then I would do so. If not, perhaps it's a case of caveat lector --facetofcathy 12:55, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Of all the Merlin communities I'm active in the kinkme merlin community is the one with the strictest spoiler policies and they don't warn for anything season two related because it has been three months since the last episode aired and the complete season has been out on DVD for more than a month. --Doro 13:03, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Well, kinkme_merlin's current policy is that individuals posting comments don't have to warn for them, but they then put a general warning at the top of the post: "To all readers: be warned that if you haven't caught up with every Series 2 episode so far, you might be spoiled by reading this meme." That's basically what we'd be doing by putting the spoiler template on the top of these articles, is allowing editors to write what they want but warning readers to proceed with caution.

Anyway, kinkme_merlin and other comms' spoiler policies are oriented for people who are already active in the fandom so there is more of an expectation that they're caught up with all the episodes (even though they still haven't aired in the US or most other countries). I think Fanlore has a much greater chance than a Merlin community of having people wander by because they're casually curious about the fandom, and I don't see what harm it does to warn those people that the pages are full of spoilers. -Sophinisba 13:27, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Based on that logic the whole wiki is full of spoilers. I stand by my vote against warning for things that are already out on DVD. --Doro 13:40, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I agree. I think reserving spoiler warnings for just the most recent episodes makes them more useful. You can't indicate in the spoiler template whether your spoiler warning is for the latest episode, or whether you put in a blanket warning, so to have the warning for the "most serious" spoiler incidences (like a summary of episode reactions to some surprise plot twist in a series the week after it aired) makes sense.--RatCreature 14:07, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Oooh, that brings me to a completely different point (sorry to derail!) - wouldn't it be nice if spoiler templates had an optional input line that allowed you to specify what was being warned for? For example, I put a casting spoiler for S3 on the character page wrt to Sir Leon, since it was a huge deal when it came out, but I know some people are trying to avoid S3 spoilers during the hiatus, and that definitely hasn't aired yet. But I wouldn't want to slap a spoiler warning on the whole page if that's all I need to warn for. And I don't want to put a warning on just Sir Leon's section because people might think it has to do with the last episode of S2, rather than S3.the old briar pipe 01:30, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

I agree. (eg I did not know that about S3 as I don't read production news) I put the point on the talk page for the spoiler template to bring it up in the right place.--RatCreature 04:21, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Thank you, much obliged!--the old briar pipe 06:10, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Elyan

Hey, Froggie! Thanks for the help with the references. ^_^ Just one question - why did you remove the Percival comparison? If you know the Kink Meme's policy, you can clearly see that Percival has been replaced with [Spoiler for 3x13] in the pairings. Around January 1 or so, his name will be substituted in there and will be visible without clicking the links. It seems to me that a reference that is already true and verifiable by clicking the links would be better than individually linking every prompt, though I can certainly do that if you want. Thanks! the old briar pipe 21:56, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

If you know the Kink Meme's policy, you can clearly see that Percival has been replaced with [Spoiler for 3x13] That's not clear to me at all. I searched for Percival and there is no mention of Percival in any of the prompts. The [Spoiler for 3x13] notice stands for anything related to 3x13 and figuring out which of the 52 entries so far may or may not refer to Percival requires a lot of inside knowledge. As such the reference at the moment doesn't support any claims about Percival and I would wait until the name is actually linked before using it as a reference. --Doro 22:16, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Sorry I wasn't clear about that! The kink meme doesn't allow unmarked spoilers until four weeks have passed since the episode aired. As a result, all series long they've been marking new characters appearing in an episode with, for example, Merlin/[spoiler for 3x07], which is code for Merlin/Elyan. I've been following the meme via Delicious for a while, so I thought that was well known. Anyway, I'll just go ahead and link all of the prompts directly so you don't have to worry about whether the assertion is accurate or not. ^_^ Speaking of which, can you help me with the Cenred bit? I'm wracking my brains trying to think of stories in which he was portrayed as ugly, and I'm just not coming up with anything. Since we read in very different circles, do you think you could let me know if you remember any off the top of your head? I'm curious now. ^^ Thanks! the old briar pipe 22:23, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Linking to [spoiler whatever] also assumes that people a) know which character appeared in what episode first and b) that no other new character appeared in that episode (which makes it impossible for anyone not deeply embedded in the fandom to verify the claims) and c) the link has to be changed anyway as soon as the spoiler notice is replaced with the content that was omitted because of being a spoiler. @Cenred... I remember several "ugly Cendred" stories, but that's not something I would tag so I'm at a loss how to search for it. *scratches head* I think some of the kinkme_merlin "Arthur is forced to become a sex slave fics" are evil ugly Cendred stories. --Doro 22:37, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Hm. Well, as far as I can tell, the spoiler links aren't being removed, so the link wouldn't have to be changed. But it's not an issue, since I went ahead and linked the individual prompts and fills. The references section is going to bloat, but that's kind of inevitable whenever this many characters are put on one page, so /shrug/. And thanks for trying on the Cendred stories - I was just curious, but I know how hard remembering every detail in so many stories can be! --the old briar pipe 22:49, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Citation

There are five references that read:

1. ↑ such_heights' post, race/gender numbers on series 1
2. ↑ needs cite (look for troll mysogyny on the anon meme)
3. ↑ needs cite (look for Parish squee on the anon meme)
4. ↑ needs cite (look for Merlin Nimueh Vid)
5. ↑ needs cite from anon meme

Could someone find and add these cites? Adding references that aren't really references is frustrating when someone wants to check out what it's about. :/ --Doro 10:41, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

I'll get two of those for you today and the rest over the holidays. Sorry about that - got distracted halfway through, as usual. --the old briar pipe 13:57, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

Thank you! :D --Doro 14:05, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

Main Characters

I changed back the edits made to the main characters. This is not a canon wiki. This page is meant to introduce the characters so that people who read the fanfic, watch the vids, etc. have an idea who these people are. There is no need to spoil for everything. It's only natural that changes happen on a show that runs for several years, but someone encountering the characters for the first time will still start at the beginning. --Doro 00:30, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

I agree with this rollback. That information would probably serve best on the specific main character pages and in conjunction with links to fandom reactions or fanworks that deal with those events. That said, I would love to see more links to S4 reactions on those pages. --the old briar pipe 01:24, 31 December 2011 (UTC)