Talk:Chan (fanfic warning)
I think chan came from TPM fandom, but I'm not sure and have no sources, so I need help there! --Kyuuketsukirui 03:55, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I accidentally saved this before I it was ready. There are a few things I wanted to look up at home because I don't have access here (for example: does M&A really still define chan as 15-17?), I'm not quite sure how to write the citations properly, I don't know anything about underaged slash before the internet or if my perception that it was uncommon in the early online slash fandoms is correct, and there is some really bad English there. /o\ Anyway, what's done is done. It would be great if someone else could have a look at this.--Doro 14:14, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
- I've revised the language in some places to clarify, without (I think) changing much of the content -- if I've taken out anything important, please put it back! I did change "totally unrelated to its use in Japanese" to "unlike its use in Japanese," because I don't think it's really unrelated (the Japanese suffix does have a related meaning.) I think you've captured one of the important points, which is the drift in meaning from "under 18" to "under puberty" across fandoms.--Penknife 14:34, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
- Awesome! Thank You!!!--Doro 14:50, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
- *nods* Mostly what I was going for with "unrelated" was that while it sounds like a Japanese word, and many people unfamiliar with Japanese might thing it's a Japanese term, it's not, unlike doujinshi or manga or what have you. --Kyuuketsukirui 14:51, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
- The archive submission page says they won't take anything under 15, so I added a citation link for that. --Kyuuketsukirui 15:00, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
Hi hi, I added a few subsections because it makes it easier to read (for em), hope that's ok? Also, this sentence: where some people argued that Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon had to wait until after Obi-Wan was knighted or it would harm Obi-Wan Does it mean "they argued that they had to wait, or that the pairing would hurt Obi-Wan" or "they argued that they had to wait until... because otherwise it would hurt Obi-Wan?" --lian 15:21, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
- I removed some of the subsections because I think there were too many and not enough plain text for that, which made it harder to read, but I changed some of the existing ones to keep it structured. With regard to your question I must admit that I'm not quite sure what you are asking. *is confused*--Doro 11:21, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
Obi-chan and chanslash mailing lists: there were two mailing lists, not one. I believe Obi-chan was first but as it was deleted by Yahoo Groups (I believe someone complained to Yahoo) I don't have that info to hand. Both were originally Onelist mailing lists. The earliest saved Obi-chan email I have is Jan 2002, chanslash April 2002. However, due to Yahoo's server space limits I deleted fairly regularly. If this is correct: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ONElist, then they both pre-dated Nov 1999. This is not unlikely as that fandom grew very fast. I believe chanslash was deleted by Yahoo as well. I'm putting this on the discussion page because I have no references, just quite dodgy memory. Maybe it will jog someone else? Vera 11:56, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
- I saved the first few chanslash emails from the list archive in June 2002. By then it was already a Yahoo Group. The message that is listed as Message 1 begins with:
- From: [name of list manager]
- Date: Thu Feb 10, 2000 1:20 am
- Subject: The list
- Hello, and welcome to Chanslash.
- As of this moment there are six of us. I suspect there will be more by the end of tomorrow, as I know at least one other person will join and interest is higher in this subject than anyone seems to want to admit to.
- A few paragraphs later she says that she decided to start the list while she was attending a panel at Escapade. In one of the replies someone asks about the Escapade panel and then there is another mail by someone else with the time stamp Fri Feb 11, 2000 9:23 am that refers to that panel, gives more details and says that it was held at 2:00 pm last Saturday, Feb. 6, 2000, at Escapade 2000, which makes me think that the mail that was listed as Message 1 in the list archive in 2002 was really the first mail to the list. I don't know about Obi-chan, though. I've never been a member of that list and it could be that it is the older one.--Doro 12:40, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
- I was basing my Onelist supposition on these sigs:
- and
- Visit the fiction archives for this list!
- http://www.onelist.com/files/Obi-Chan/archives.html
- To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
- [email protected]
- I honestly can't remember which list was first, but I would guess at Obi-chan as chanslash was more pan-fandom: more the chan, less the Obi. Original fiction was being posted to chanslash about the time I unsubbed. Unfortunately the first master apprentice list got deleted in August 2003. The current one only dates from then, so we can't go back and check that list's archives for the chanslash and Obi-chan list announcements. The only Obi-chan email I still have is a detailed rec for Fumin's zine "The Door".Vera 13:29, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
- Oh, I'm not saying you are wrong about Onelist. I saved the Batman fic "An Old Passion" as a txt file when it was posted in February 2001. The header says [email protected] but the unsubscribe information at the end of the file reads Unsubscribe: [email protected] http://www.onelist.com/community/chanslash. It's just that unless the Onelist to Yahoo Groups thing seriously messed with the dates of the archived mails, the dates are correct and the Escapade info should be easy to verify. Maybe someone else knows more about Obi-chan? The only info I could find was that it was deleted before Chanslash (based on a chanslash mail from 29 Aug 2003 where possible causes for the disappearance of chan-related sites are discussed. HP-chan is named as the first chanlist to go under and it is speculated that maybe the same person who was responsible for that put a knife to obichan and hpchanslash too.)--Doro 14:12, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
- Yes, I think you're right; the list sigs are hangovers. I've swept LJ to get some info about the deletions but can only find second hand info. The post I originally linked to in my journal is now flocked (the LJer's habit is to flock old posts, it's not afaik targeted at that particular post.) Anyway, my recollection and what I've read again: Obi-chan was reported to Yahoo and TOS'd. Some time later, around 19/20 Aug 2003, all of the Yahoo groups modded by Jane Harmon were TOS'd, including master_apprentice and MA_Fic. There was talk about hassles for Harry Potter chan lists as well - is that the hpchanslash you mention? I'll move this to the page if I can get some approvals to cite. - Vera 14:45, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
Two posts that might be interesting regarding the controversy of chan: http://maeglinyedi.livejournal.com/216508.html and http://maeglinyedi.livejournal.com/216748.html -- Rodo 19:00, 20 November 2008 (UTC)