Nay-sayer

Synonyms:	darksider
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Nay-sayer (also "naysayer" and "nay-say-er") is a term from the Beauty and the Beast (TV) fandom.

The phrase was one of the volleys used in The Beauty and the Beast War. See The Roy Dotrice "Nay-sayer" Incident.

Many fans who did not like or support the third season of the show took umbrage at being labeled as a "nay-sayer" because they felt it described them in a negative light.

"Nay-sayer" was first used by a fan, Deb Hense, in the December 1989 issue of Beauty and The Beast: The Newsletter. Hense encouraged other fans to watch and support the third season:

Let's counteract the naysayers by writing letters of support to each magazine where a negative letter appears! And let those editors know that there are many more of us who love the show than hate it, and we're working on converting those who have yet to watch it.

The term, however, gained wide-spread traction when it was utilized by Stephanie Wiltse in the January 1990 issue of her newsletter Pipeline, a publication that had a very high readership rate, both of fans, and the powers that be.

The word appeared at the very end of "Pipeline," as Wiltse signed off. (See more of Wiltse's remarks at Notice to All Naysayers):

Notice to all Nay-sayers:

Our enjoyment of "Beauty and the Beast" as it now stands does not infringe upon your right to turn off the television set. But your misery — in seeking our company — does infringe on our right to continue to look forward to new episodes with unmitigated relish. Cease and desist the acrimony! Your opinions are valid as such, but vengeance and vendettas in the name of one's 'being right' have always been futile ...and it will leave many friends permanently parted.

Break then with the past rather than with your fellows. Gauge your words and actions not by their emotional worth to you, but by the good or ill they will do others. Whether they agree with you or not they are still worth your consideration. It is a sad thing to feel disenchanted, but inflicting that hurt on others is not to your credit nor will it prove your point. For all our sakes, give this new-born phoenix just now miraculously arisen from the ashes a better christening than the contents of a chamber pot.

A fan in 1996 said, "It got my attention."

A fan wrote: "Stephanie Wiltse was making an effort to calm people down who were ready to storm Witt-Thomas before the series had even returned. She was saying that we shouldn't be nay-sayers and should wait to see what is in store before we condemn."

Example of Use

1989

...let's counteract the naysayers by writing letters of support to each magazine where a negative letter appears! And let those editors know that there are many more of us who love the show than hate it, and we're working on converting those who have yet to watch it.

1990

I myself from the very beginning just couldn't imagine the series being able to maintain the intensity and compassion that we had become so used to. I can understand your anger at the nay-sayers but realize that some of us really question the truth behind Linda's departure. Her silence speaks louder than words.

I agree with your notice to nay-sayers. I miss Linda [Hamilton]...but Ron is doing a great job even without her.

The spirit of the show hasn't changed. (Your message to the Nay-sayers was right on.) It's the only thing on TV (save the Today Show) that can keep me from reading a good book or listening to music

I believe the actions by those you called 'nay say-ers' was not even in their own best interest.

Someone living a little too close to an organized group of what some might call nay-sayers, concurred with the above and added: "For someone 'no longer involved' ****** seems to be throwing an awful lot of 'political meetings.' I'm sure there will be quite a few reports coming out of there by Sunday night. Now I just have to decide if I want to disconnect the phone in anticipation of that particular onslaught

Yes, I've been accused of writing editorials about nay-saying, etc."

The end of the innocence. That's what we've found. For two beautiful, inspiring years, we were all friends.... kindred souls. And now? What have we become? Nay-sayers? Dark-siders? The media, that we so impressed with our unwavering dedication last May, has been referring to the "two camps" in fandom: Pro-third season and Anti-third season.

When I read the latest issue of OUT...IN I felt as if I'd had the door slammed in my face by a very old and dear friend. To be chastised, and then told I have no right, in your newsletter, to speak in my own defense, is not fair. I have a mind, and I choose to use it, not let it be used. It is fine though, to publish a letter from an editor who has done more to prolong with "War of Words" than all the so-called "naysayers" and "dark-siders" combined. Honestly, I really didn't know about this great, raging battle until I read about it in "Pipeline". Oops! That was a no-no. They can put us down, but we're not allowed to defend ourselves. Isn't that how it works?

I was delighted to see your letter in "Once Upon a Time ...Is Now." I was just about to ask you to spell out better, just what you considered nay-sayers to be, because many people I know seem convinced that you were specifically talking about THEM if they didn't happen to like the third season. I was always saying "But I didn't interpret her words like that" but to no avail. I too have been thoroughly saddened by the atmosphere of fandom lately. Saddened and very tired of it.

I do not WANT or LIKE to be called names because I have a different opinion or an unpopular opinion! In the most recent issue of another letterzine, one editor (not from the zine) still persisted in calling certain types of fans "nay-sayers." It is utterly ridiculous, and I wish we could just stop! Name-calling causes bad feelings and resentment.

The majority of people I spoke with generally disliked Season Three; those who found some things to like about it were treated with respect and responded in kind. How unsettling it was then to hear Roy Dotrice's tape, urging us "nay-sayers" to come back into the fold—as if we ever left it. Mr. Dotrice's comments, however well-intentioned, combined with the two special awards to the parties that bear much responsibility for causing the split, did nothing to ease the rift; the probable result is the ongoing need for everyone to again take sides.

I can understand your anger at the nay-sayers but realize that some of us really question the truth behind Linda's departure. Her silence speaks.

As to badges, there were sale flyers on the freebie table [at TunnelCon] for a collection of anti-3rd season buttons (also from Michigan) which were witty, but hardly conciliatory Apparently this "Nay-Sayer and Proud of it!" (thank you, glad you approved of the appellation) along with "Damn you, KOSLOW" and circle/slash "Diana" buttons felt "Who says we gotta give her a chance?" ...which about says it all.

1991

We are not anxious to travel to an event where we are likely to be labeled with the tiresome and ridiculous label of 'naysayer' or to be blamed for the demise of B&TB by those who are desperate to preserve Vincent pat any cost, even Catherine's life or Vincent's own integrity.

Whether or not anyone associated with "South of Oz" loved Season Three wasn't ever the issue for me; what WAS the issue was that most of the fan guests had gone on record belittling those, such as myself, who could not support Season Three — we, the so-called "traitors" and "nay-sayers" of fandom. While I saw a guest list that very firmly supported this point of view — accept or be labeled "traitor" — I saw no guests who represented the point of view of fans who prefer B&TB in its "classic" form. Let's face it—this fandom is divided. NO amount of wishful thinking will change that.

1996

I do want to point out that when you mention that some 3S fans have already quietly left fandom due to feelings of alienation, I have to remind you that it's a two-way street. Several years ago when the terms 'rabid Classic fan', 'militant Classic fan' and 'nay-sayer' were in common usage, many Classic fans too simply slipped away. I wish someone would explain to me why a fan who doesn't accept a fictional character's death in order to maintain their fantasy view of a story they love is 'rabid' or 'militant'. As to the term 'nay-sayer', I think it's safe to say that its usage in fandom back then, as with almost any instance in history where it has been used, was purely an attempt to control a faction of people whom some thought were exhibiting unacceptable views.

"Nay-sayers" goes back to one editorial that appeared in an issue of Pipeline in the summer or Fall of '89. The editor, Stephanie Wiltse was making an effort to calm people down who were ready to storm Witt-Thomas before the series had even returned. She was saying that we shouldn't be nay-sayers and should wait to see what is in store before we condemn. She

could get us the exact quote if we like. According to Roz, all of the terms Teri used in that portion of her letter were referring to people who in their hysteria over Catherine's death were doing things like sending black roses to the production offices, and death threats to some of the writers (one of the reasons we don't hear much from George R.R. Martin at conventions and such - a real shame because he would have so much to offer those who have never been fortunate enough to have heard him speak).

As far the 'naming' of fans go, I didn't appreciate being called names just because I loved Catherine, didn't want to see Linda go, was unhappy about the upcoming 'death' - and wasn't totally thrilled by Koslow's direction. I made my point of view known, politely and, in return, I was called "nay-sayer", "screamer", not a "true" fan, a "Catherine-ite" and other names, ad nauseum. So, whoever started this whole ugly thing, everybody was tainted with the brush - not just people who loved and accepted the third season.

I personally believe the 'naming' began after the T.V.Guide article which blurted out the entire third season synopsis months before the show came back on the air. Classic fans [#1] (specifically Vincent and Catherine fans) were appalled. Classic fans [#2] (specifically Vincent fans) were also upset, but were also probably excited about the new direction the show was going in). And then there were also the Classic Vincent and Catherine fans [#3] who, although they were upset, were also excited about what might be coming. I subscribed to about 5 letterzines at that time and they were full of letters encompassing the entire spectrum of views.

Unfortunately, come December 1990, fans [#1] (?) were still numb from the direction the show was going in and fans [#2] and [#3] (?) (MOO - my opinion only) were getting tired of what they might have considered to be 'whining'. I can only go by what I read, but that's when certain 'terms' started popping up in people's letters. I was (and still am) a Classic V&C fan and I was berated for being one - specifically for not following the new direction, for not 'believing' in Ron Koslow's vision and for not 'getting over' Catherine's 'death'.

We've been hurt on BOTH sides of the fence. I think it's important for people who weren't originally involved, to know that, too.

You discussed the origin of the terminology 'Rabid Classic Fan', 'Militant Classic Fan' and 'Nay-sayer'. I have no idea of what the truth really is, but I do believe that both sides have suffered due to these name calling's, whoever began them (which I do believe is irrelevant at this point in time). I can only speak for myself and I'll say that I'm probably the most 'rabid Classic fan' you're likely to encounter (in terms of philosophy) and never once have I considered sending black roses to anyone, nor know of anyone who has ever done so. Which doesn't mean that it hasn't been done, but I have to question it. I've heard this story before, but always from 3S fans. To me, considering the bad feelings by some, that's something that raises a question in my mind. Black roses to an actor who is doing nothing more than playing a role implies to me an inability to separate real life from fantasy, and as I've said above, IMO the Classic fans I've encountered are amazingly good at doing this.