Et in Italia Ego

Fanfiction
Title:	Et in Italia Ego
Author(s):	Sebastian
Date(s):	February, 1997
Length:	178K, 27,900 words
Genre(s):	slash, Bodie/Doyle
Fandom(s):	The Professionals
Relationship(s):	Bodie/Doyle
External Links:	online at the Circuit Archive & online at the author's website
Click here for related articles on Fanlore.

"Et Ii Italia Ego" is a The Professionals slash Bodie/Doyle story written by Sebastian.

It was originally published in the zine Paean to Priapus VI: Chiaroscuro by Oblique Publications in February, 1997. It was posted to The Circuit Archive on October 21, 2004.

In 2008 and 2010, fan artist shooting2kill offered photo-manips along with text from the story. They can be seen here[1], here[2], here[3], here[4], and here.[5]

Fan Comments

1997

***WARNING*** SOME SPOILERS AHEAD ***

I can't do a real review of this story because I haven't got much objectivity about it, so all I can offer is my impressions, comments, what-have-you, all rather subjective, I'm afraid.

You see, I had a major misconception/preconception/expectation going when I first started reading it. I'd heard things about it - what stuck in my mind was "the Lads" "first time" and "on holiday in Italy". Somehow, along with some vague comments by a couple people who read it, I translated this into "terribly romantic". (Yes, I did know about the bittersweet ending, but had been assured it was entirely easy to speedbump, by no less an authority than the author herself, so I wasn't worried.)

So I was expecting one thing, and got another. Because there is simply no way that that wretched coach trip could be viewed as romantic. I got confused. I kept reading along, wondering when the romantic stuff would appear and why I was being tormented by these endless sardine-tin bus rides and the depictions of the less-than-intriguing fellow passengers. It made me cranky. And then, just when I thought that B&D might do something more intriguing because they were alone together and had to share one bed, I ran smack into one of my personal non-preferences: exhibitionism/voyeurism. Let me explain this, 'cause I've written it myself at least once, if not more.

You see, most, if not all, of my "kinks" or preferences are very specific. I like h/c, but only if it's Doyle who is hurt and Bodie comforting, and no one else is around. I can think of others, but I'll spare you. The point here is that I *do* like exhibitionism/voyeurism, but only within an established sexual relationship between the Lads. E/V depicted *prior* to such a relationship is way, way down on my list of things I enjoy reading about--something embarrassing about it, something tawdry. So I got disconcerted by the story all over again, and it was nothing to do with the writer. The writing was excellent. Every reaction I had came down to nothing but good old personal preferences and preconceptions. Sigh.

Fortunately, things began to turn about the time they got to Rome. Specifically, Rome in the evening, when they headed into their first mutual sexual encounter. From that point on, I got happier and happier. The coach trips and the fellow passengers faded to incidental mentions, the travelogue got better (in the early section, only Pompeii stood out vividly for me), the romance appeared in full force, the Lads got to spend more time alone together, and the sex was really, really nice. There were lovely scenes, some good touches of poignancy, and wonderful descriptions. The second half of the story was definitely worth going through that first half for--and the first half probably would have been fine if I hadn't had those false preconceptions and expectations about it. Sigh.

As for the bittersweet ending, it was terribly easy to speedbump. I knew damn well they would go back in October, and that Doyle would certainly not have his girlfriend with him. No way they would stay apart. Practically shouted off the page. Phew.

One minor quibble about POV: in long stories, I tend to prefer either one POV only, or if using both Lads' POVs, I prefer a fairly even-handed treatment of the two, with each scene in one clear POV. This story was about 85% Bodie to 15% Doyle, and the Doyle POV stuff tended to pop into the middle of Bodie POV scenes, and while she did as good a job as anyone could with that, it still jarred me every time it happened, momentarily bouncing me out of the story.

I've never been to Italy so I can't say the descriptions evoked any memories - it read mostly like a rather ordinary travelogue with the exception of Pompeii and Capri. Those are the only two that stuck in my mind afterwards, anyway. The descriptions that really worked, in fact, were the ones of Doyle. Each time Bodie looked at him, and thought about the way Doyle looked, was special, and terribly evocative. Wonderful stuff.

As for the erotic factor...well, I'm not the person to ask. As I've said many times before, I don't read slash as erotica, I read it as romance, and the sex scenes in this story were very romantic. It's very, very rare for a slash story to, um, affect me in any way other than a basic "oh, what a lovely image", so if you really want to know if this story is erotic, you'll need to check around with someone who has a different outlook on this sort of thing than I do. Actually, there was one scene in this story which gave me a slight thrill--it was the bit where Doyle is looking at/patching up Bodie's arm wound. Must be something to do with the h/c fan in me, even if it *was* the wrong lad who was hurt. Go figure.

Those are my impressions, for what they're worth. As I said, highly subjective. Very well written, and the more romantic second half captivated me a lot more than the first half. A lovely tale with some great images, very real dialogue, and a few truly poignant moments, and an ending which was terribly easy to read as a beginning--that is, it made it easy to think of this as simply the first part of a much longer and even more romantic story.

Thanks, Sebsy!

I suspected that there'd be alot disagreement about Alex's (& my) view of the ending. I didn't think that it even needed to be speedbumped. For me, the ending was the ending of this segment of their relationship. There was enough stuff embedded throughout the story for me to think that there's no way they could keep themselves from getting back together when they got back to London. No way, no how.

That was a sad ending! I mean, it was *really* sad! They were strong, strong men and they knew it was really, truly impossible, this thing they'd started. They were going to think about it, and hurt about it, and they were NOT going to DO anything about it.... It was going to pass, because it was impossible. It was Casa Blanca, sweetheart. It was NOT From Here to Eternity!

Speedbump? SPEEDBUMP? I could maybe, *maybe* imagine someone using a better analogy--like the grand canyon, or the Great Wall of China or something, but a mere speedbump ending, this was not.... as always, in my not-so-humble opinion. One of the delights of this story, for me, was that it did NOT have a happy ending. (This does not mean to imply that a sequel couldn't be written that would completely negate everything I've said to this point (i.e. they're both alive, they're both on the same island, so it's possible that something could be worked out infuture)--but at the ending, theirs was a truly lost romance. *sniff* WONDERFUL. *sniff* That was what made this story so great.

2000

Finally more and more of the best old zines stories are making their way to the web. In Et In Italia Ego Sebastian chooses an unlikely setting for the boys, but as ever, she makes it work. I'm a huge fan of her clear-eyed and unsentimental yet loving take on Bodie and Doyle, and this is one of my favorites. Warning -- the story was originally published in the zine, Chiaroscuro, and the web version is in PDF, perfect for printing out. While you're there, read the rest of the zine -- there wasn't a bad story in the bunch.

2003

This is my favorite Sebastian story, bar none. It's tender and sexy and bittersweet to the point of heartwrenching, all rolled up in a gorgeous mini-tour of Italy. Bodie and Doyle holiday together, trying to forget their workaday lives - at least temporarily - but they can't quite avoid the spectre of George Cowley and CI5. Sebastian does a wonderful job of building the tension between them, their feelings so real and intense that they pull you in and make you complicit.

Not a favorite at all. Very disappointing from a talented writer.

One of my top favourite stories (apart from a couple minor glitches re: the Italian background ;) - this story is so incredibly, unbelievably intense, it makes me thoughtful for days, everytime I re-read it...thanks for the rec!

2005

I've said much of this before, in my own posts and in comments (I figure it's okay to crib from myself *g*), but for me this is important stuff - goes to the essence of why I'm a fan, why I'm a slasher - and I feel the need to keep trying to work it all out, even if I repeat myself.

I'd skimmed through Et in Italia back when I was in the midst of the Circuit Archive overhaul; I assign ratings and some warnings to the stories in the archive, so I have to at least skim through all of them to see if they are NC-17, if there's death, what the pairing is, etc. etc. I skimmed Et in Italia enough to know that the ending wasn't happy. By this point I doubt it's a surprise to anyone who reads my posts that happy endings are pretty important to me, so I left it at that and never intended to read the story again.... Et in Italia, though, is much tougher for me. The thing is, in many ways this is a perfect story, and particularly, a stunningly, exquisitely gorgeous love story. It's Sebastian at her finest: the writing is liquidly beautiful, the characterizations are just about perfect, she captures the remarkable bond between B and D so amazingly well; their relationship is endearing and incredibly moving and passionate and deep and real in every way, from the day-to-day snark and humor to the amazing, amazing sex. It's got love and emotional intensity in spades, is so immensely touching, and yet it's never sappy or trite. Truly a masterpiece, a jewel of a story....

....but for the ending. This is a holiday story, Bodie and Doyle on a coach trip through Italy. They fall irrevocably, irredeemably in love - but as it turns out, this "perfect holiday moment" (to quote daraq) is to be just that, and nothing more than that: a one-time thing, a perfect moment in time that will (it appears) never be repeated and cannot be carried back into their "real" life in any way, shape, or form, other than as a memory. Paris and others pointed out various bits and pieces of the story that could be viewed as hints that the end of the holiday isn't the end of "them" - and that view of those bits may or may not be "right," but the fact remains that the author wrote the ending as if it were the ending, in a very flat-footed and really unambiguous way: the coach trip back home was "the longest journey they had ever made and with nothing for them at the end of it." The last line? "Thanks for everything, mate. It was nice while it lasted."

I mean ... punch me in the stomach, why don't you. To me there simply isn't a lot of hope to find in an ending like this. Oh, it's possible to argue that this is their view of it, this is what B and D are expecting to happen at the time, and they might well be wrong - that their actions, their feelings, speak louder than their conscious words or thoughts. But it's hard for me to buy that, because Sebastian generally doesn't write a typical "unreliable narrator"; her stories, this one included, are written with a more omniscient POV, and unreliable narrator generally requires more of a limited third person perspective. She, the writer, knows too much to make unreliable narrator really work.

So to me, this ending reads as simply ... hopeless. Not ambiguous, not ambivalent, not uncertain, but hopeless. Hopeless in the sense that their "fling," their "love affair," is over: that's it, done, finis, never again. Back to real life now, and having to live forever with the memory of this perfect moment, nothing else ever quite living up to it, knowing that nothing will ever be as good, but giving it up nonetheless, because ... because why? Because it would be too hard to make it work in "real life"? I'm not precisely sure why, actually, which is part of the problem for me: Sebastian didn't set up a reason compelling enough to make me understand, make me believe, that it had to be this way, that it would be so flat-footed, that they would give this up so readily and unquestioningly, as if there really were no other option. [much, much snipped -- see source for full review, as well as many, many comments, mostly dealing with the subject of what comprises a happy ending]

I can easily imagine them honestly believing that What Happens in Italy Stays in Italy and not being able to stay apart

Yes, this seems to be the prevailing view of those who don't read the ending as final: that they might honestly believe this is the end, but they'll never be able to stay apart, having done what they've done. I want to believe that, too - but I really can't, not unless it's spelled out more clearly for me.

A remix would be great, or a sequel, but it'd be hard to live up to Sebastian's writing standard. And I'd be just fine with their relationship being a good-but-not-perfect thing: my happy-ending fetish doesn't require perfection for satisfaction!

I probably can't address much of what you say since I've forgotten a lot of the story and I'd need to reread it, but as you know, I like the depresso stuff sometimes, and rarely write traditional happy endings. For me, that's often too easy and I don't feel as challenged by it. ANd I also tend to think realism is in the eye of the beholder -- our shows are rarely realistic, either, unless you're a The Wire fan or something. But.

I think the not getting together but not for a good reason aspect it a bit different -- if you really see it as not having a legitimate foundation for their ending of the relationship, then everything else will ultimately be a failure. So, if she'd given you a stronger, truer reason, would the apart ending have worked for you as much -- say, Bodie just can't deal with working with his lover, or they face terrible censure, or... something that you feel makes it more realistic?

I've written volumes on why I like death or dark stories, so I won't rehash my points again because... too much work, but I think the defensiveness of happy ending people is a little overworked. There are far, far more people who want happy endings than who want something darker or more intensely melancholy, believe me. Those of us who are satisfied with being miserable are in a minority. The worst conversation I ever had was with someone who insisted to me that things cannot be escapist if they involve any kind of unhappiness. I just don't get that -- yes, it's just as hard to make a good dramatic story filled with sunshine and light as it is to make a good dramatic story filled with gloom and doom. But what tends to stick with people in fiction of any kind is conflict -- we are prone to want to fix the conflict in our hearts and minds. People are just wired differently -- whereas you hit a brick wall with an ending like that, if given a good enough foundation, I go right over the bricks and start imaging all kinds of fixes to the conflict of the ending that happen after the "The End" appears. I enjoy that a lot, but I realize others are not wired the same way as I am in that respect.

I'm with you insofar as I do not like the ending to this story, in fact, I'd go further: I don't like the story. For me it's not Sebastian at her best, it's Sebastian at her 'I've been convinced that to grow as a writer I have to write darker stories with unhappy endings'. For me Sebastian was at her best in her earlier stuff, when her characterisation convinced me, was very close to being spot on, when they were in love and still men, when they were together at the end. But once she moved across into the 'dark side' when she had Bodie beating Doyle until he was sick (okay not this story, but it's the same kind of thing), when she had them doing one another under a bridge on Christmas Day and just walking off and then when she wrote this story and others like it, the Sebastian wonder had gone. Many people worship at her feet in respect of her later stories and this one in particular is an icon - apparently. I don't get it. I don't get it at all.

Well, when I said Sebastian at her best, I was referring more to her writing rather than to the content - technically her writing is beautiful here, to me at least; liquid and gorgeous and evocative and more layered and sophisticated than her earlier stuff. I differ from you in that I do like the story - but for the ending. Though then again, if I say the ending ruins the story for me, does that really make any sense?

Anyway, I'm with you in far, far preferring her earlier stuff, though; I love the dreaminess and sweetness of it, love the endings. I am certainly not someone who adores her later stories, not at all, though I know many people do; I hate that under the bridge one (can't recall the name offhand) too. And I wish I better understood why she went that way. It could have been, as you say, because of the whole Artiste thing - to grow as a writer I must write darker stories and unhappy or ambiguous endings. But I suppose it could also have been that that's where her muse took her, that's what she found cathartic; perhaps something in her life changed. As gwyn_r said up above, some people like darker stories, as hard as that is for me to fathom!

So I don't understand, and I wish I did; wish I understood why she wrote Et in Italia as she did - and what she envisioned as happening next.

And as for realism ... this is one of my pet peeves, when people complain that a story isn't "realistic." What they mean is that it lacks realism with respect to a particular aspect that they like to see portrayed realistically - because when you push you see they're always perfectly happy to accept lack of realism in other areas! Coincidentally I've come across a few good posts about this recently; the one I quoted in the post and also a few others. In one someone commented "There's enough 'reality' to be found in real life already," which is exactly my view, and also that "'Reality' has already ruined the entertainment value of TV," which is something I hadn't thought of! *g*

I want my happy ending, realistic or not - though it does have to be convincing for me in the context of the story, I'm really not all that concerned about whether it could happen in "real life." After all, we're talking about made-up characters from a TV show - it's not real life to begin with. If B and D can do those outrageous things, the gunfights etc., and no one blinks - well then, why can't they live happily ever after?

Sebastian didn't set up a reason compelling enough to make me understand, make me believe, that it had to be this way... I need to come back to this when I really take the time to read your entry carefully but the above just jumped out at me because this is absolutely the reason this story doesn't work for me--the reasons why they can't at least make a go at it aren't really presented in any meaningful or coherent way. You know me--I can go with unhappy when I'm convinced it makes sense, but this story just didn't hang together at the end. I felt jerked around and I came away almost resentful for having invested the time in the story (which I had some other problems with--the travelogue bits got to be a bit too much) to get such careless ending.

It's been awhile since I read this, but I remember feeling so depressed at the end. I need to believe that somewhere, even if it's only fiction, there is a near-perfect love - where two people are willing to fight for each other against the world if need be. Without that, where's the hope? The 70s nearly ruined movie-going for me with their 'realistic' endings where either everybody dies or nothing works out. I get enough realism. Give me a little hope or some small glimmer of happiness...please! Maybe I'm a hopeless romantic, but it's so common nowadays to take the easy way out. If a relationship is going to take too much effort, well, we'll just move on and find someone else. Where's the commitment, the honor? Maybe that's another tangent. ::g:: I can't explain it, but know what you're saying. (I think)

If I couldn't believe in happy endings, I think I'd just stop reading; if I couldn't believe in the possibility that B and D could be together, and happy, I simply wouldn't be a Pros fan.

Some of this is the ability to suspend disbelief - but it's more than that, I think. All of what you say about the time and context are true - and yet I disagree with the conclusion. I find myself simply unable to believe that there were no gay men involved in at least reasonably satisfying relationships with other men in the British services in the 70s, that they were all, to a man, miserable and closeted, that no one in a position of power (eg Cowley) would ever turn a blind eye to discreet conduct, or show understanding (within limits). Carrying on such a relationship might have been tough, yes; perhaps even unlikely - but not impossible.

And the fact that B and D are adrenaline junkies makes Sebastian's conclusion even less convincing to me - again, I simply don't see them as the kind of men who would avoid doing something because of the risk, and I don't see their commitment to CI5 being so strong that the fear of being kicked out would dictate their behavior to this extent - Ray threatens resignation at the drop of the hat, Bodie has switched "occupations" more times than you can count, they've only been here for a few years, not their entire lives - and bottom line, I just don't see them being the kind of people who would let "society" dictate their behavior: they are rebels and nonconformists. And again, this is how *Sebastian* paints them - Ray's remark to Suki about the honeymoon shows how little he cares about what others think of him; Bodie thinks about how he and Ray are separate from everyone else....

Sure, sneaking around would be difficult and unpleasant - I'm not saying everything would be sunshine and roses, or that they'd be wearing Queer Pride banners. But they sneak around anyway, they hide what they do from the rest of the world - "civil servants"; again I don't see this as being sufficient to stop them from pursuing something they want so much.

A good example - and a story I love - is Shoshanna's Never Let Me Down; there is sneaking, they are both angry at the situation that causes them to have to sneak, but neither is willing to give up what they have found with each other - not even Bodie, who was dragged painfully into realization and acceptance of his sexuality.

So I don't buy the idea that Sebastian's ending is the "right" one, that a "happy" ending is incompatible with contemporaneous reality; again, she simply didn't convince me why, or even that, that was the way it had to be; it didn't make perfect sense to me, not when I really thought about it. But even if that were true - well, if my enjoyment of fanfic was premised on total realism, I'd be pretty miserable. The world, it has always seemed to me, is a pretty cold and merciless place, and hope is in short supply; that's not what I want to read about, though. Do Bodie and Doyle really ever act like "typical" gay men in any story? If one is willing to accept unrealism in some areas, why not in others? Of course, everyone's reality threshhold is different, I know - but if indeed a happy ending for B and D is "unrealistic" (and I don't buy that it is, but I'll assume), that's an unreality I can live with.

But coming full circle: I still can't get your final sentence out of my head, because it strikes me as so ... tragic. My ability to believe that B and D could be together is such a haven for me; the thought of losing it, particularly as a result of reading one story, is unbearable!!

I don't think that any reason anyone offered - including Sebastian - would ever prove strong enough to convince you, given your strong emotional need for a certain type of resolution. For you, no reason could satisfactorily explain why your Bodie & Doyle wouldn't fight to the death to continue together in a sexual relationship. That's a lost cause. For you, the point is that Bodie & Doyle can't exist as fulfilled characters except together as a couple. No other version of Bodie & Doyle - no matter how internally consistent they were written - would be emotionally satisfying and acceptable for you.

But separate from that, I do think that a larger point needs to be made about how a reader's background and historical context affects their reading of a story. A well-written story carries with it historical context, both overt and implicit. I think a good case can be made that that there wasn't any need for Sebastian to include huge chunks of exposition dealing with anti-homosexual attitudes, harassment, and discrimination, and the difficulties facing Bodie & Doyle. That was already embedded in the time period portrayed, the characters we know from the show, and the quasi-military structure of CI5 - as Daraq's comment illustrates. And Sebastian does include many, many things that highlight these difficulties, albeit in a more subtle way.

Just to be clear, I'm speaking of the generic reader from here on, not focusing on you.

Now, someone first reading the story twenty-odd years removed from the story's setting, especially an American, may fail to grasp the full extent of those difficulties facing Bodie & Doyle. And a reader who was born after the show went off the air is even more likely to dismiss or under-rate anti-homosexual sanctions. But I don't think that lack of understanding can be laid fully at Sebastian's feet and seen as authorial failure. Yes, an author needs to set the historical setting and attitudes for a story - and I think Sebastian does so - but the reader should also be expected to have some understanding of the historical context.

You, Jessica, view Et in Italia as a failed story because it ends with what you see as Bodie & Doyle giving up their sexual relationship for good. I see the ending as much more ambiguous, as a temporary resting place rather than a final death knell.

But even if I were to accept the ending as final, with no future sexual relationship between Bodie & Doyle, I don't think the story should be viewed as a failure. Rather, the success is that Bodie & Doyle were able to come together at all - despite all the odds stacked against them. I find it incredibly hopeful that they were able to reach out and snatch some time together as lovers. Would I prefer that they were able to continue as lovers as well as partners and friends - absolutely. But if Italy is all they ever had as lovers, at least they had that. (And at least Sebastian didn't have the bus crash on the way home, killing all on board *g*.)

I can empathize with your frustration over Et in Italia, though I don't share it. For over thirty years, I've been unable to either accept or reconcile the ending of Daphne du Maurier's Frenchman's Creek - though that has more to do with Lady Dona's accepting the limitation of her role as a woman, than with abandoning her relationship with Jean, the French pirate.

Like you, I deplore the "if it's happy, it must be fluff" school of thought, even while my own taste runs toward ambiguity or sad endings. There's this reigning belief that happiness is inherently trite and unrealistic, while pain is deep and much more lifelike.

Well, you know what? I have a pretty damned happy life. Happiness *is* realistic: it's one of the many colors of life that most of us get to experience from time to time, just as we experience unhappiness from time to time. Neither is more realistic than the other.

And it's not as if there aren't eye-rolling angstfic clichés out the wazoo, after all. Sad stories can be every bit as trite and nauseating as happy ones.

But what's interesting to me is the way people have this sort of binary mindset about stories, that they're either happy or sad, full stop. I haven't read the story you describe in your post, but based on what you've said about it, I would find that story a happy one. This might have more to do with my personal view of relationships than the story itself, admittedly; but for me, anytime love is fulfilled, that's a happy thing, whether it lasts "forever" or not.

The problem with stories is that they have to end somewhere. Life ends with death. Given the way we feel about death, if every story ended with death, we would say that all stories were sad. But every human being's story *does* end with death. So even if Bodie and Doyle stayed together to the end of their lives, they would still die, and if a story ended with their deaths, it would be a sad story. You know?

Maybe that's what you mean by the kind of realism you don't want in your fic. (: I can respect that. But it makes tough work for even an author determined to write only happy endings: you've got to pick where to end it. Where the story ends changes everything. If Et in Italia had closed with Bodie and Doyle, the morning after their consummation, sipping espresso on the balcony and gazing lovingly at one another, that would be a happy ending regardless of what might happen next in the reader or author's mind.

I really thought of myself as a "happy ending" preferring kind of person, but I have to revise that image. I get the impression in fandom that "people" think of M Fae and Helen Raven as writing very angsty and painful stories, (stereotypes are odious, sorry!) but although they have a powerful and sometimes painful impact on me I would never not read them or think negatively about them for that reason. I *do* have those "bring me to my knees for days" reactions to stories, but my threshold is higher than yours, and I think that the main reason I fall down isn't so much to do with the *way* stories end but just with the fact that they end *at all*. I want them to go on forever - I never want to leave. As was discussed above, we're all different, we can agree to differ. On to this particular story's ending. I'm conflicted. I agree with you that the last lines are incredibly hard to take. On the other hand, I reverse myself because I can't imagine any other ending that would work for the way the story makes me feel. There are so many reasons why I feel this way (*feel* used deliberately!) but they're hard to put into clear arguments. (By 'ending' I mean the pain and loss they feel at having to end, to leave, to pull apart and go back to a bleak everyday life where they are separate - not the actual wording of the last lines!)

2006

This is, quite simply, a classic Prosfic, by a master storyteller. It's up there in my top three. Sebastian writes beautifully at any time, and here the characters are perfect, the place and time are perfect and on holiday anything can happen.

2010

Sebastian leisurely, lovingly explores the lads’ characters and their relationship, vividly capturing them frame by frame in this strange, exotic setting. I can see them -- and hear them (their voices are pitch perfect -- both in the rhythm of their speech, the things that they say, and perhaps most importantly, the things they don’t say). There’s a wonderful, drawn out sexual tension all the way through balanced by their unease with what’s happening between them, the fear of what others might think, what they might think in time when this holiday is just a distant memory…

When I first discovered Pros fan fiction I was looking for -- expecting, really -- stories that mirrored the episodes. I wanted case stories that were perhaps a little more in-depth and that explored the relationship between Bodie and Doyle, in particular the romantic relationship that I saw in the subtext of the lads’ eye contact, body language, and physical gestures.

I think that’s where Sebastian failed for me initially -- as many fine writers and stories failed. (I think I’ve mentioned I couldn’t stand AU initially, for example.) Sebastian was not writing case stories or crime stories. Her stories were all relationship stories. I felt she showed an unseemly preoccupation with sex.

Which is not to say that she didn’t write sex beautifully. *g*

Anyway, relationship stories -- with or without the sex -- are now my favorites. But it took time for me to work through what I wanted out of these supplementary tales. I think there’s a sort of progression one goes through in discovering fan fiction, and I think one becomes both more tolerant and less tolerant. More tolerant of exploration of character and themes and dynamics less tolerant of shoddy writing because after you’ve glutted yourself on everything available, you get a little choosier.

"Sebastians story: ohh, it's so ... so many things: it is bittersweet, it is really funny (I remember the men "fishing with short rods" *g*), and it is so sad in the end. When I finished reading, I just wanted to shake them both and shout at them "Don't suppress your feelings"..." She is a great writer.

... when I first started reading Pros, Sebastian was a writer I discovered almost immediately and as far as I was concerned few writers came up to her standard. I suppose it's a bit like getting used to good wine then having to go back to plonk? Or having to endure The Dave Clark Five and The Monkees after The Beatles

I’m fairly new to Pros fanfic so haven’t read anywhere near as extensively as most of the people here, or experienced a lot of the different writers. I have read some of Sebastian’s fics though and I’m a little ambivalent about her work, which can be evocatively beautiful in its construction but sometime seems to lead her characters in directions I’m not sure are right for the lads. Maybe that’s why I’ve enjoyed her shorter fics more than her longer ones.

This fic, though, is delicious. I love the slow dance of seduction that is played out and the sly humour. I can just see Doyle ignoring all around him in his retreat behind his sunglasses and Bodie being tempted out of his isolation by Edna’s treats. The characters are all finely drawn with the other passengers gradually coming into their own, just as they would on any extended bus tour.

But it’s the lads themselves who hold your attention and their romance is beautiful, the inevitable conclusion sad and all too real. I’d like to know what happens when they try and deal with the consequences when they get back too, but it might be too heartbreaking!

As for the title, I’m inclined to think that for Bodie and Doyle Italy is where they truly came to life.

"...but sometime seems to lead her characters in directions I’m not sure are right for the lads." ...I can just see Doyle ignoring all around him in his retreat behind his sunglasses..."

I think Doyle is one hell of a travel mate here! He is not just ignoring all around, he is ignoring Bodie as well! ('always his Walkman clamped to his ears', 'always in the window seat', 'Bodie(...) one huge grip bag in each hand. Doyle lightly tossed his Walkman from hand to hand and looked around', 'and refused all offerings except a Polo.', 'Bodie jumped as a pair of lean fingers snapped briskly underneath his nose. "You there?" Doyle said caustically.', '"Let's get back," Doyle said, rising. Bodie looked around. The party was in full swing,') Doyle is just a selfish bastard here, and I think that's a bit exaggerated. I would have drowned him in the Tiber alone for that Walkman!

Despite of that it's fun to read...

Yes, Doyle is selfish to some degee here and that’s why I do have problems with some of Sebastian’s work because that doesn’t really fit with the Doyle I see. But I did the same as Bodie did in the fic - left Doyle to his moody silences during the day and concentrated instead on the interactions between Bodie and the other passengers and the night-time scenes between the lads, all of which made the fic the good read that it is.

I just wonder why Sebastian DID exaggerate with his meanness moods. That 'Bodie(...)one huge grip bag in each hand' is for example canon, but it's the sum of Ray's selfishness that disturbs me a bit.

I think maybe she is trying to show that Ray is frightened about his feelings for Bodie, so he hides behind his sunglasses and Walkman in case he shows everyone, including Bodie, how he does feel.

For me, she never takes it too far -- at least not at this stage of my reading her. Originally I did have problems with the Siren series and a couple of others where Doyle wasn't merely difficult and moody, he was damaged and self-destructive.

And I still don't agree with that reading of him, but I'm willing to go along with it because, again, I trust her as a writer. I'm not exactly sure what I mean by that...other than the stories will be well written enough and have an internal logic that will allow me to follow the fantasy.

I do think here that Doyle seems doubly enigmatic to Bodie because they're fish out of water and he's seeing Doyle a bit as others see him (them).

Yes, Sebastian's Doyle is often moody and difficult. Her Bodie tolerates it, even indulges it up to a point -- but then maybe that's the key. Bodie tolerates it, and he needn't -- he's plenty tough, plenty capable of speaking his mind -- or grabbing Doyle by the scruff of his neck and tossing him in the Tiber -- yet he goes along with it, seems even mildly, wryly amused by it. Bodie's view of Doyle is unsentimental, but the affection is deep and abiding -- and because Bodie is not a weak or foolish man, I think the message is that Doyle, for all his irascibility, is well worth it.

Yes, certain writers are fascinated with various themes. With Sebastian we often see an isolated, removed Doyle who, despite appearances to the contrary, is actually desperate to have someone of his own, someone who totally understands and loves him regardless.

I find the contradictions of her Doyle fascinating. He's so hard and so cool and so enigmatic, and yet underneath he's almost shockingly vulnerable. Yet she makes me believe it. But then aloofness -- poise -- is not always an accurate indicator of what's going on beneath the surface. I think she captures that sense very well. That only Bodie and Doyle get to see what's beneath the other's surface.

Yes, I think this was originally why I had trouble with her stories. While her Doyle and Bodie are (for me) the lads I see on screen, she often spins their relationship -- or layers their characters -- in ways I'm unconvinced about. But I've reached a point where I trust her enough as a writer to simply relax and enjoy the ride.... I admit there are a couple of stories I'm not crazy about. Velvet Underground doesn't do much for me or Jungle Book, but overall I like almost everything she's done. Even when she's going in a direction I'm not that interested in, I find her explorations worth following (at least once). It's a relatively small body of work, alas.

It's wonderful to see the lads so totally and believably out of their normal milieu. I think she does a great job capturing...well, everything. The lads, the bus, Italy. It's all very evocative, but she never loses track of the fact that this is a story about the lads dawning awareness -- no, more than that. They're already aware, but now in this new, exotic environment they risk acting on that awareness. It's very believable, and she really does capture that sexual tension.

I think her character explorations are the strength of her writing, even if we don’t always agree with the directions she takes... Yes!, the pace of the story is about perfect. You get enough without ever too much of the lads unfolding sexual exploration interspersed with some lovely scenes of Italy and the interactions of the other passengers so that the flow works nicely and keeps you interested..That’s what makes the whole fic so poignant. As you mentioned above, the fic is very believable and the reality of such a situation, especially at that time, is that they would probably have very little choice other than to hide their feelings and pretend nothing happened.

I almost didn’t comment because I find it impossible to be objective about this story such is my high regard for it. As with my other favourite stories, every time I read it the power of the writing stays in my head for days and unsettles me as I want to be a character travelling with B and D on the most important journey of their lives. And when I’d first read it I was really curious about the writer and what she says at the end about her own coach trip to Italy and almost falling in love - it seemed to make the whole thing almost magical. So......…I thought I had nothing to say but the discussion has raised a couple of points for me and made me think. I think Doyle's so-called 'selfishness' has been mentioned.... I don’t think a need to be solitary is necessarily a sign of selfishness. Other people can be tiring and I don’t think a desire to switch off and be left alone – to relax - is selfish. And I think I’d agree with another comment made that perhaps Doyle - in listening to his music and wearing sunglasses - is hiding behind those things (maybe not to begin with) and trying to come to terms in his own way with his evolving feelings towards Bodie.

And then there’s the bittersweet, poignant, heartache of an ending. But really it can’t end any other way. Not if it’s to have the impact Sebastian is after. The force, the power, of the story comes from the fact that this is a holiday romance, a moment captured in time. It can only end one way. The lads aren’t starting off on a new life together. They’re on holiday, and at the end of the holiday they have to return to their jobs and lives in London.

I think I tend towards the opposite view that it can only end in one way which is that their physical/falling in love relationship has to continue as I think it would be impossible to ignore and return to the status quo of who and what they were pre-holiday ie. I think it’s their former relationship which has been lost for good. I just can’t see how they can work and spend hours together alone in such close proximity and pretend things are the way they were. (And that's why there has to be a sequel!)

Just one tiny thing - for the sake of discussion – I’ve sometimes questioned the likelihood of two image-conscious, virile young men - who seem to love driving fast cars and being in control – booking a holiday on a coach trip? I know they were a bit pissed when they first had the idea but even so, it just doesn't seem quite in character...

My first Pro's fic was "Et In Italia Ego" by Sebastion. I'd never even heard of The Professionals prior to that. I read a review of the story on Josh Lanyon's web site while looking for information on the Adrien English mystery series. It was quite an interesting discussion and I just had to go read the story for myself. I've been non-stop reading ever since!

Erotic, gorgeous, wonderful story of Bodie and Doyle going on holiday to Italy and falling in love. Sebastian weaves a fabulous picture of their journey, both the physical one and the emotional. The two journeys are inextricably intertwined as they feel the freedom to explore their feelings only because they are away from England, from CI5, from their ordinary lives.

The ending...well. The ending works perfectly on the textual level; it's appropriate for these characters in this world as both have been evoked, and it's clear both Bodie and Doyle believe matters will enfold exactly as they intend. Yet there's nothing within the story to stop the reader from projecting, shall we say, a scenario beyond its end in which matters don't quite work out as Bodie and Doyle expect.

But whether one does or doesn't desire to play with the ending, this story's a fabulous read on every level.