Talk:Social Justice Warrior

According to wikipedia, gamergate started in 2014, but the page history of the FFA wiki entry explaining the negative connotation shows that the term was in use pejoratively in 2013, so the section here on gamergate is wrong as it stands.--aethel (talk) 03:03, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

At the top of the FPA page they have a 2012 quote: http://fail-fandomanon.livejournal.com/37106.html?thread=166064626#t166064626. Top of the thread: http://fail-fandomanon.livejournal.com/37106.html?thread=165730034#t165730034 I'll see if I can find sjw earlier on ffa.MeeDee (talk) 03:51, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

The phrase SJers (which for some was the precursor to SJw was in use by March 2011: http://fail-fandomanon.livejournal.com/12614.html?thread=53619526#t53619526 I'll keep digging.MeeDee (talk) 04:00, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

Thanks! I asked twitter, but maybe five people follow me and it's past my bedtime.--aethel (talk) 04:04, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

A SJ*W* reference that was going around fandom in 2011: http://alexandraerin.livejournal.com/286563.html

• A negative refernce to "social justice" in July 2010: http://fail-fandomanon.livejournal.com/341.html?thread=6485#t6485. By Aug 2010 we have SJ-er: http://fail-fandomanon.livejournal.com/1972.html?thread=8278196#t8278196 MeeDee (talk) 04:19, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

Predating both at FFA: March 2010: both SJer and SJW. http://fail-fandomanon.dreamwidth.org/13728.html?thread=53694112#cmt53694112 Before that most uses of SJW - St John's WortMeeDee (talk) 05:13, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

FYI, that link is for 2011. I don't have any cites to beat that, but evidence that SJW was a known term on LJ in 2011: may 13 and june 17 on fandomsecrets. Also: SJW tag on AO3 created (with one use) in February 2013, Social Justice Warrior Bingo at an lj comm for right wing fangirls, August 13th, 2013. (actually a repost: it was on tumblr in 2012). The first tumblr post complaining about social justice as opposed to some Japanese boyband was on july 5, 2011, but the tag seemed to gain speed in 2012. --aethel (talk) 15:58, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

Fascinating find (that SJW tag on tumblr really started popping up in Jan 2012). The first few I found don't raise the issue in the context of fandom - I'll keep looking https://www.tumblr.com/tagged/sjw?before=1327896747 This is the first use of SJW I was able to find (in tags) (warning annoying autoplay): http://duedlyinfatuation.tumblr.com/post/15326407098/what-read-more-because-mini-rant dated: January 4th 2012, 7:07:17 Keeping in mind that the results may also be skewed by tumblrs search algorithm: http://akio.tumblr.com/post/8333646870/how-the-hell-does-tumblrs-search-algorithm-workMeeDee (talk) 17:35, 23 January 2016 (UTC).

And of course the term must have been used earlier on tumblr if someone made a post complaining about it in Jan 2012: http://naekingnaequinnaelairdnaemaster.tumblr.com/post/15720167783/confessions-1 MeeDee (talk) 17:42, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

Why are there so many references to failfandomanon in here? If I understand correctly, PPOV means there should be a more diverse array of sources. I tried to fix that a bit, but honestly I don't have the time to research other uses of SJW and the like. Could somebody PLEASE give some more positive aspects of SJWs? I can try over time, but there has to be someone more informed than I am who can help here. kowaiyoukai (talk) 16:09, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

The page got split into two - one to define the term and the other to talk about it has been used in fandom. As a result the pages may have become a bit unbalanced. I did find a thoughtful essay about why SJWs are being misconstrued and added it to this page. Right now the FFA citations on this page are only 25% of the examples (which makes sense - this is a page about the term it is wider use, not the page about SJ in fandom). MeeDee (talk) 16:29, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

I copied over the PPOV tag from the main Social Justice page; I wasn't sure if there was a problem with this page, but I was moving content from a page that had the tag so I kept it. So what is needed to remove the tag is to find fans who self-identify as SJWs or Social Justice Warriors as a positive thing and quote them? I think we need to be careful that this glossary page is only concerned with the term itself and not fannish activism generally or fannish opinion about social justice generally, which belongs on Social Justice and Fandom. I made some edits to that effect.--aethel (talk) 03:53, 30 January 2016 (UTC)

citation still needed for non-pejorative SJW usage

The wikipedia article on the term SJW says it's a pejorative, and the wikipedia article[1] used as a cite for the whole paragraph which contains a sentence talking about self-described SJW's does not include any reference to SJW as anything other than a pejorative used by gamergaters. In fandom I've never seen it used in a positive sense. So if it's true that some people actually identify themselves with the term SJW, we need links! And also it would be good to note whether these people are in fandom.--aethel (talk) 00:30, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

Now that we have split the "social justice in fandom" from "social justice warrior" I think the page is much clearer. I put out a final call on twitter and tumblr to see if anyone has ever used the term in a positive sense. My suspicion is that people confuse the term with the positive aspects of social justice activism (which the splitting of the page clarifies). Over time, we may see the word "reclaimed" like many other pejorative words have been in the past, but we need cites.MeeDee (talk) 18:12, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

Yes, that was my suspicion as well. I mean, probably someone somewhere has said, man, SOCIAL JUSTICE WARRIOR, that actually sounds cool. But I don't see this usage in fandom.--aethel (talk) 22:02, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

Got one response here: http://lierdumoa.tumblr.com/post/143853776717/non-pejorative-use-of-social-justice-warrior The most I can remember is someone saying: "Fuck yeah, I'm a SJW, what's it to you?"MeeDee (talk) 23:26, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

And another here: http://judiops.tumblr.com/post/143866194024/non-pejorative-use-of-social-justice-warrior Perhaps we can say: Some activists have attempted to repurpose the phrase outside of fandom, although as one fan noted that it is used in: "the way some women refer to themselves as bitches with pride. But it definitely still has that same feel– it only seems to be used ironically when it’s in a positive tone." To the majority of fans, however, the phrase remains a derogatory one.MeeDee (talk) 19:09, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, I added it. Since we're assuming fans aren't calling themselves SJWs, I removed another section that seems more appropriate for the Social Justice and Fandom page, if it's not already covered. Here is the text I removed:

How Social Justice Warriors Positively Impact the World

Most people who define themselves as SJWs stand for making a positive change. Clearly this decision to focus on being more inclusive of different kinds of people has affected society for the better. Laws are changing to reflect a new way of thinking about the importance of considering all people, no matter how they're defined. . This has been a long time coming, as many people have stated all over the internet. . Large groups of people have felt marginalized for far too long. Social justice warriors are forcing people to deal with that, as opposed to continuing the long-standing tradition of ignoring injustice and letting hurtful, illogical, or offensive ways of thinking and acting slide.