Talk:FreeVLDS8

This page is temporarily protected (1 week) while Gardeners review recent edits. --Auntags (talk) 11:22, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

Bit later than planned... Okay this appears to be a very contentious campaign with fans holding very different opinions on it, and season 8 in general. As a result, it's important we all keep Fanlore's PPOV policy in mind. We want to reflect all sides of fandom, be respectful of other people's viewpoint and as much as possible provide references for our comments. If you're unfamiliar with using references on a Wikisite, take a look at Help:Footnotes

Please post here, rather than directly editing the page while we sort this out.--Auntags (talk) 15:42, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

Restoring Meta Links

First of all Meta is an opinion piece. It's an essay arguing a certain point of view, and so it isn't appropriate to remove examples of meta from a fanlore page because it may be biased. There was a lot of meta on this page and most of it was removed. It all seems to be meta produced by FreeVLDS8 supporters, and most of it seems to be critical analysis of the source material in support of their theories. And a neutral tone was used in all descriptions of these meta by the editor. So I'm going to add it back in. Comment if you have any queries or comments. --Auntags (talk) 15:42, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

would it be alright if I re-arranged the restored links? I originally had them listed chronologically by publication date before they were removed but now they are out of order. --TheVioletHowler 23:22, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

Sure, any user who wants to query the meta links restored can find them on the edit history, here --Auntags (talk) 00:02, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

Contested/Deleted Comments

Projects

Team Purple Lion has continued to publish their research and analysis over the following months, and in July 2019 created their own website to host and archive their essays.

Later in July Team Purple Lion began posting a series of reconstruction videos based on their analysis that some content from Season 8, such as the episode “Shadows”, was originally created as part of Season 7 before WEP president Bob Koplar had ordered it removed. The videos inserted the first 15 minutes of “Shadows” into the Season 7 episode “The Last Stand: Part 1”, and the remaining 7 minutes into the end of the Season 7 episode “Lion’s Pride: Part 2”, and discussed the reasons that these choices made sense from a storytelling perspective.

In the following months, Team Purple Lion began working with fans to create a reconstruction of Season 8 titled “Rise and Atone”, filling in the scenes they believe to be missing with voice-acted comic panels. The first episode of “Rise and Atone” was posted to the Team Purple Lion website in October 2019.

I honestly have no idea why these paragraphs were deleted. They just seem to detail activities the campaign engaged in. Is there any reason why these comments should not be restored? --Auntags (talk) 15:42, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

Proposal:Restore edit If there are no objections, this edit will be restored --Auntags (talk) 01:09, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

Fan Responses

Edit 1

This comment was deleted

Fans involved in the campaign are dismissed by as delusional conspiracy theorists by those who believe the events of the season were the creative team’s plan all along, and supporters are often accused of being entitled shippers angry that their preferred pairing wasn’t canon.

The above comment was added by Caessius when creating the page and was originally posted on the main VLD page. This comment was originally written by TheVioletHowler on 13 Nov 2019, with Caessius adding the phrase "conspiracy theorists" at a later date.

Do we now think this need citation, a rewrite or is it fine to be restored to the page? --Auntags (talk) 15:42, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

I had previously written the original comment on the main VLD page to summarize the general response to the campaign from those against it as briefly and neutrally as I could. When a separate page was created for the campaign, I took the opportunity to go into a little more detail on the fan responses, and had felt it was redundant to keep the original comment. --TheVioletHowler 23:22, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

That makes sense. The 'entitled shipper' line still appears on the page, but I think I have removed it in my proposed rewrite of edit 3. (I can edit it back into my proposed rewrite if we're not restoring this edit) --Auntags (talk) 23:46, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

Proposal: Do not restore edit - If there are no objections, this edit will not be restored --Auntags (talk) 01:02, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

Edit 2

The campaign ultimately failed when Lauren Montgomery and Joaquim dos Santos came out and said that while last-minute edits were made to the final season, they were extremely minor and that there was no alternate version of the season. This caused fans to turn on them even more, accusing them of insensitivity, queerbaiting, and racism.

I think there is a consensus that the campaign is still ongoing, so again saying that it failed is inaccurate. Also the portion in bold really isn't necessary. It's quite accusatory. Now this paragraph has been rewritten substantially and here's what we have on the page now

In an interview with AfterbuzzTV released on March 4, 2019, Lauren Montgomery and Joaquim dos Santos appeared to say that while last-minute edits were made to the final season, they were extremely minor and that there was no alternate version of the season. This caused many fans to turn on them even more, accusing them of insensitivity, queerbaiting, and racism. While Team Purple Lion was quick to point out the inconsistencies of the showrunners’ statements, as well as explain that due to their contracts the showrunners could not speak the full story of what happened without legal consequences, critics believe the campaign to have failed.

This is a huge improvement but I'm still in favour of removing the portion of text about fans turning on the writers, because it doesn't really strike a neutral tone. This paragraph also needs citation, particularly the statement about accusations made against showrunners. Does anyone have citations? --Auntags (talk) 15:42, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

Proposal:Remove 'turn on them' phrase and add citation needed tags --Auntags (talk) 01:07, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

Edit 3

Deleted.

Eventually, people who were satisfied or at least didn't mind the final season or the ending felt irritated by the constant pushing of the crusade on social media, especially when it started to turn against the creators and encourage people to harass the staff and the higher-ups until they got their own way. Others who did agree with those on the campaign or disliked the season and the finale for whatever reasons began to point out how expensive and time-consuming animation is and that if there were any alternate plans for the reason they never made it to the drawing board.

I'm in favour of adding this back in as it is fan opinions, but currently there's no citations. So we'd want to add references where they're needed. If you come across statements that need citation you can add this tag,{{cn}}, to the end of a statement.

Additionally, most of the meta and analysis was created by Team Purple Lion, noted for their strong Lotor bias and Lotor/Allura shipping. Even those involved with the FreeVLDS8 movement pointed this out, as a good number of them were Allura/Lance shippers and Lance fans who felt TPL's views of the series unfairly demonized his character and ignored his development. Furthermore, many Lotor fans believed he was meant to be a hero all along and glossed over him basically committing genocide to create a new and better world, as well as his behavior when called out on it.

In the second paragraph we have info on how FreeVLDs8 may have divided fans based partly on shipping dynamics. This is relevant but needs to be be presented in a way that isn't biased towards a particular side. At the moment, this is on the page

Since many of the campaign’s supporters are Sheith or Lotura fans, they are often dismissed as nothing more than entitled shippers angry that their pairing didn’t become canon. Because Team Purple Lion is comprised of fans who openly ship Lotor/Allura and argue that Lotor was innocent of the crimes he is believed to have committed, there are those that see them as having a bias against the Allura/Lance ship, feeling that their analysis of the series and the final season are unfair to Lance’s character and growth.

UPDATED [PROPOSED REWRITE:] Note: Edited following discussion on Edit 1 to add back in the first sentence for context and also added PPOV

Some supporters are dismissed as nothing more than entitled shippers angry that their pairing didn't become canon, and there are those that believe ship dynamics have played a role in support for the FreeVLDs8 campaign. Many of the campaign’s supporters are Sheith or Lotura fans; two pairings that were not endgame. Some fans of the Allura/Lance ship believe this influences TPL's critical analysis of season 8; believing their meta doesn't accurately reflect Lance's character growth in the final season, while been overly sympathetic to Lotor.^{[citation needed]} However its also true that other Allura, Lance and Allura/Lance fans were unhappy with season , with some of those fans among the signatories of the petition Voltron Season 8 - Release the Original the Showrunners Wanted..

Any comments on Edit3?--Auntags (talk) 15:42, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

I feel arranging the rewrite like this would provide further context on the shipping part: --TheVioletHowler (talk) 00:03, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

There are those that believe ship dynamics have played a role in support for the FreeVLDs8 campaign. Many of the campaign’s supporters are Sheith or Lotura fans; two pairings that were not endgame in the current version of the season. Because these supporters argue that one or both of those pairings were endgame in the unedited cut, they are often dismissed as nothing more than entitled shippers angry that their pairing didn't become canon. Some fans of the Allura/Lance ship believe this influences TPL's critical analysis of season 8; believing their meta doesn't accurately reflect Lance's character growth in the final season, while been overly sympathetic to Lotor.^{[citation needed]} However its also true that other Allura, Lance and Allura/Lance fans were unhappy with season , with some of those fans among the signatories of the petition Voltron Season 8 - Release the Original the Showrunners Wanted..

That's great. I think we would need to add a caveat that not all VLD fans believe an unedited cut exists. We could replace the third sentence with this, "Supporters of FreeVLDS8 believe an unedited cut of the series exists and that one or both of those pairings were endgame in that cut. As a result, supporters are often dismissed as nothing more than entitled shippers angry that their pairing didn't become canon." --Auntags (talk) 00:30, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

That sounds like a good idea. To make sure the section flows better, how about we also rework the previous sentences so that the beginning of the Fan Responses section goes like this:

While the petition and other projects have received consistent positive support from fans involved in the campaign, not all VLD fans believe an unedited cut exists. Many that do not, regardless of their opinions of the season, insist that due to how expensive and time-consuming animation is that any alternate plans for the season simply never made it to the drawing board and that there is no additional cut of the season to be released.

There are those that believe ship dynamics have played a role in support for the FreeVLDs8 campaign. Many of the campaign’s supporters are Sheith or Lotura fans; two pairings that were not endgame in the current version of the season. Supporters of FreeVLDS8 believe an unedited cut of the series exists and that one or both of those pairings were endgame in that cut. As a result, supporters are often dismissed as nothing more than entitled shippers angry that their pairing didn't become canon. Some fans of the Allura/Lance ship believe this influences TPL's critical analysis of season 8; believing their meta doesn't accurately reflect Lance's character growth in the final season, while been overly sympathetic to Lotor.^{[citation needed]} However its also true that other Allura, Lance and Allura/Lance fans were unhappy with season , with some of those fans among the signatories of the petition Voltron Season 8 - Release the Original the Showrunners Wanted.-- TheVioletHowler (talk) 00:47, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

Proposal: Accept VioletHowler's last suggested edit - If there are no objections, I will add this to the fan response section (We'll leave this up for a few days to make sure all editors are agreed) --Auntags (talk) 01:01, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

Edit 4

This text was expanded upon today

People who were satisfied or at least didn’t mind the final season or the ending feel irritated by the campaign’s vocal presence on social media, due to the constant harassment of the staff and higher-ups to get their own way.

Currently on the page

In the immediate aftermath of the season’s release, a vocal subset of fans who were dissatisfied but did not believe the season was edited expressed their anger in the form of ad hominem attacks against the staff. While prominent campaign participants advocated civilly contacting DreamWorks and WEP for a response, their attempts to directly contact specific higher ups through public channels has been seen by people critical of the campaign as being comparable to the attacks other fans have made against the staff. As a result, fans who were satisfied or at least didn’t mind the final season or ending feel irritated by the campaign’s vocal presence on social media.

There's a lot here, and I think a lot of it needs references. Citations legitimize the statements you're making, and provide primary evidence for fandom events. If anyone has citations for these events, please list them below.--Auntags (talk) 15:42, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

Here are two citations of prominent campaign figures calling for peaceful communication and denouncing the use of threats and harassment. -- TheVioletHowler (talk) 01:39, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

Proposal:Accept edit and add citation needed tags If there are no objections, this edit will be accepted --Auntags (talk) 01:08, 19 April 2020 (UTC)