Alt.books.m-lackey

Newsgroup
Name:	Alt.books.m-lackey
Date(s):	1994-1998
Moderator:	Melissa Tabbifli
Type:	fanfiction
Fandom:	Mercedes Lackey, Valdemar
URL:	alt.books.m-lackey FAQ, Archived version
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Alt.books.m-lackey is a newsgroup for fans of Mercedes Lackey.

"Full credit for this document belongs to Melissa Tabbifli who did the work of putting it together, and Captain Silkfur McFluffy for hosting the FAQ for the last several years. [...] Thanks to Scott (saverte) for the new MOTQ contact. Thanks to Jerry Cullingford for the third WWW page. HUGE thanks to Captain Fluffy ([email protected]) for taking over the FAQ from Tabbifli."

FAQ

See the FAQ: alt.books.m-lackey FAQ, ^{Archived version}, 1994, updated in 1998

Contents:

1. Order To Read?

2. How Can I Reach Her Or Other Fans?

3. She's Got Songs, Are They Recorded?

4. Does She Really Believe This?

5. Why No MU*s Or FanFic?

6. Proper Behavior On alt.books.m-lackey

7. No More Di! But Why???

8. Anything Else?

"Proper Behavior"

Proper Behaviour On alt.books.m-lackey

As you may have observed, a.b.m-l is a free for all. Everyone is encouraged to participate or lurk, which ever you prefer or have time for. There are only a few general rules or traditions on this group:

a. Our newsgroup is proud to say that we have been successful at maintaining a Flame Free zone on usenet. Dissagreements will arise, but as mature people, we prefer to settle our differences intellegently.

b. SPOILER WARNINGS. There are two reasons why the use of spoiler warnings is encouraged. 1) Because not everyone can afford to buy their books in hardback. 2) Because ML's books are published in the U.S. first, members of a.b.m-l who live in other parts of the world like the United Kingdom, Canada and Australia to name a few, do not have easy access to them, and often have to wait a year or more to get them in their own countries.

So, in the interest of our members who do not have easy access to all of Misty's books or can not afford to buy the hard copy version, it is group tradition that we insert SPOILER warnings when making reference to books still in hardback or less than a year old.

c. Spam, whether advertisement or hate, are not appreciated on alt.books.m-lackey. Advertisements which have some relavance [sic]to the group, ie. net bookstores/music, is an unresolved issue and subject to the mood of the group. Anyone spamming alt.books.m-lackey should expect to recieve [sic]letters of dissaproval [sic]to their account and a copy of the errant text sent to their system administrator.

d. It is the sentiment of the majority of the group that unecessary [sic] text/empty lines be deleted when responding to a post. Excess text reduces the clarity of whose saying what as well as being unnecessary. Please just include the text that you are specifically responding to or that portion that most clearly represents it. Most Usenet browsers have delete text functions.

Other than these, just about anything goes. Please remember, at the other end of any post is a human being.

The Last Straw and Camel's Back

The FAQ has (outdated) links to the posts The Last Straw and Camel's Back.

Regarding Fanfiction and Control of What Gets Discussed

1994

There's been some speculations here as far as what's allowable here and what isn't allowable. I'm going to state what I think should be allowed, and what I know for a fact Misty and Larry would NOT like to see here.

First off, I do think we should discuss the books. Not just the Valdemar series but all of the works that Misty and Co. have created over the last few years. There's been a lot of work involved in creating her universe and discussions about it, and where the books are heading are more than welcomed by her.

What wouldn't be allowable would be fanfic. At present, there's no way to control fan fiction, and without posting some sort of guideline of what is allowable, and the fact that you would have to sign a release form a la GEnie's "Modems of the Queen" area, it's something I wouldn't want to see. Fanfic is in a sense similar to the MU* controversy... it's taking the work of Misty and using it for your own purposes without considering her rights and wishes.

Occasionally I will try to post here things like hints of what's to come in the books, what's in the pipeline at the printers for what to look forward to, and the rare statement from Misty and Co. I do have contact with them on a moderate basis, and can treat some of this as 'business'... as I am her eyes and ears here in this group. What's posted here does eventually get back to her. The only problem is that she's not Internet savvy, so you won't see any posts from her anytime in the future.

To be honest, we've been doing well enough here. The addition of sites reading this group and folks finding us here is a good thing. It means more folks can participate here in discussing Misty's works. And that's what I'd like to see, and I know Misty wants to see. But at the same time we have to protect her works and accept what she says on things.

I will discuss with Misty the idea of some fanfic being posted... it's possible that what might happen is before it's posted you have to send it in for review, just like submitting any other kind of work. But don't hold your breath on this one.

-Tal Greywolf

I have written some fanfic in the past. When I was very much the young fan, I was into Pern and Darkover and all of those worlds... and fanfic was fairly common at that point. There wasn't the sort of controls that exist now with fanfic, and the controls that do exist came about because of several abuses of the fanfic 'unwritten rules' over what you could do, what wasn't allowable and such.

Misty as a fan has encouraged folks to 'play' in her world. But that play has to be in spots where she can see it, comment about it and even say NO when necessary. The only online area where a person can play is on GEnie in her 'Modems of the Queen' place, and the Queen's Own 'zines. And even there, the ground rules are that you can't use her characters (with the exception of Herald Chronicler Myste) and that you can't alter the events that have occurred. But inside of those guidelines you can play quite a bit.

But the originality question does come into play. I do write, and while none of my stuff is 'ready for prime time' I do occasionally post on the net what I've come up with so far, just to get feedback. The stuff I tend to do is more hard SF than anything else. But that doesn't mean that when I'm feeling like playing a bit I won't try to do something in Misty's world.

Fanfic is a touchy subject nowadays for many writers. In a sense we should be glad that Misty is willing to give us an area to play in, even if it's not something we can directly link to here on the net. -Tal Greywolf

1996

Far as I ever heard (and this was stressed rather alot on the online forum I used to haunt before I got on the net) [Lackey] was very adamant about no fan fiction AT ALL, and was known to threaten people with lawyers, etc. Pretty strange for one who got her start in fan fiction, hmmmm?

Actually, fanfic is allowed under very strict circumstances. And only under the queens own club, I assume non-cyber and I know on Genie. This restriction was put in place to protect her ability to make money off of her worlds.

Debate has raged about just what can be done legally to protect ML and punish those who break the law (copyright infringment). Which ended in a general consensus on a.b.m-l that out of respect for her wishes we will not tolerate fanfic here, and especially not if it involves her worlds.

The same restriction goes for Muds for much the same reasons.

This is just a cursory explanation. For a more authoritative and detailed version, please check the faq I posted yesterday.

Laters, The Fluffy (who thinks people should use their own creative ideas when writing publicly)

Heyla, all. it just occurred to me to ask something: Does anyone know what the legal status of these little story-like posts we've been tossing around is? I mean, I'm having a blast, but I'd hate to think we're doing something that would upset the one who gave us this wonderful world. I'm no lawyer, so would someone please address this issue! -- Summerstorm

That all depends on to whose world you're referring . . . We *certainly* aren't in Valdemar most of the time; the story-like posts seem to be set in a sort of cross-roads, where all manner of creatures can meet.

This is a *darned* good thing, 'cause Misty has said no on-line fan fiction set in her world or using her characters. Those of us who have been Chosen may be a bit iffy, but we are using our *own* personae, after all. <Sigh>

Technically, I believe things written are automatically copyrighted (at least in North America -- does anybody know about the rest of the world?) from the moment of their creation by their creator.

[...]

Zhai'helleva, Herald Erica

I'm aware of ML's desire not to have her world or her characters used since they're protected by her copyright...which is of course what she's entitled to. But what we're doing here in a variety of forms is building on some of her concepts, but using them differently. Whether anything we publish in a story format is really copyrighted without that copyright notice is, if memory serves, debatable, once it has gotten beyond your computer or your home. Law school memory says that if you slip up and let the document out without the notice you can go back and "recapture" it if you do so within a reasonable time. Anyway, let me find out what I can, since without intending any disrespect to ML, she is quite naturally looking out for her own best interests, and any advice she may "give" on copyright restrictions, specifically or generally, may be colored by that fact. More later. -- Dave

I always thought that you couldn't get into trouble unless you actually made money on someone else's copyright. You know like writing a book with ML's characters. And hey wouldn't ML be proud of us. I mean we do worship her and all. -- Vicky

Use of ML's characters is definitely forbidden. Use of those parts of her world that are uniquely hers is also forbidden (eg, names such as Velgarth, Pelargir (sp?), terms such as "shaych" ). An animal companion (lower-case "c") who is telepathic and interacts with the human character is ok. Even "bonding" with the human is ok, because those concepts have been used by many different authors. Referring to such a creature as a Companion (capital "C") is probably verboten. Probably the best rule to use is something like this:

Take someone who is familiar with a wide range of fantasy, (including ML's works) and give them a description of the character/scene/thing. If they automatically identify it as "oh, that comes out of Mercedes Lackey's stuff", you shouldn't use it.

For creating a new [whatever] I make sure I don't use any proper names out of anybody's stuff. I may invent a name that fits the "language" used, but I try to make sure I avoid anything too close to one that the author used. Then, I intentionally pull things from two or three other authors to "customize" it a bit. I'm an inveterate tinkerer, so there's usually quite a few changes before I'm done, but all you really need to do is make it noticeably different in some respect from the author's version of that [whatever] so that anyone who looks at it will say, "Well, it's almost like ML's xxxxx, but hers [can/can't] do yyyy." -- Hope this helps. -- Charley

I doubt any of us are going to get sued, even where we're clearly in violation of the rule (the terms kyree, Pelargir, Companion and Chosen all come to mind, although the last two are somewhat iffy). The case of people using Velgarth-related (or other ML-world-related, for that matter) stuff as usenames on the Internet is borderline, because it's pretty obviously not fiction. (Of course, SOME of the stuff that goes on here had BETTER be classified as fiction or they're coming to take us away, hah hah!) If you want to be completely safe, just change things around a bit. Kiyrhy instead of kyree, Harberel Mountains instead of Pelargir Hills, and so on (and if you don't like my invented names as well as Misty's, well... that's why SHE's selling the books). -- Charley

You don't need to make money to be taken to court. You don't even have to cost an author money to be taken to court. Technically, all you have to do is use their stuff. Practically, though, you probably won't find yourself in court unless the way you use their stuff affects or threatens to affect either their money-making ability or their creative control. Considering all the warnings we have, I'd be extra careful; if I wondered if it could be perceived as a threat, I would probably not use it.

One thing which I suspect we can count on in this newsgroup is that, given that we have a representative watcher and all, we can be pretty certain that if a post actually gets too close for comfort, the poster will probably get a warning first. That's both good manners and good legal planning. If you have proof that someone was warned and ignored it, that should be better than just jumping on them immediately. Of course, if anyone ever gets a warning, they should drop the subject immediately. -- Anne Elizabeth Baldwin