Vid Feedback 101

Meta
Title:	Vid Feedback 101
Creator:	sdwolfpup
Date(s):	2005
Medium:
Fandom:
Topic:	Vidding, Feedback
External Links:	Vid Feedback 101
Click here for related articles on Fanlore.

Excerpts

I was going to title this "Vid Feedback for Newbies," but that seemed kind of annoying. Then I thought about sub-titling it "What Vidders Really Want," and that didn't seem right either. So what, exactly, is this about? I'm glad you asked.

I see around LJ and in the occasional email I receive, where people who don't vid, don't feel qualified to provide feedback. Often their feedback is preceeded by "I'm not a vidder and I don't know what I'm saying, but..." or "This is probably lame feedback but..." and then goes on from there. I know how intimidating the language of vidding can be. I'm still intimidated by it.

laurashapiro makes the point about how people are taught in college how to deconstruct written texts, but generally only film majors learn the language of deconstructing visual texts. And gwyn_r posted a few days ago about Visual Vocabularies and getting comments from a non-vidder and the lack of feedback confidence of non-producers in fandom.

This all culminated in my desire to share with you, my flist, what I, as a vidder, think about feedback from the perspective of a non-vidder. And I feel pretty confident that a lot of vidders will agree with me. And will let me know if they don't. ;)

Part One - All Feedback Is Valuable
My first important point is this: without someone to watch my vids, the value of my vids to fandom ceases to exist. What I mean is, I love vidding. And I'm happy vidding for myself. But I post vids because I want other people to watch them. So those folks in fandom who spend their time "only" watching vids or "only" reading fic, you all are the staple of fandom. (A little secret? Often vidders are so busy vidding, we may not get around to watching many vids ourselves.) The consumers are what makes fandom, fandom. If we were all producing works all the time, it would be a very crowded, little commented-on activity, and not that much fun.

What this means in terms of feedback is that your feedback as a consumer, whether you're a vidder or not, is important. Vidders value all feedback, whether from vidders or viewers. [snip]

ETA: morgandawn notes how most of us go to see movies and can provide feedback on those visual texts. Much of the same ways that we talk about movies can be applied to how we view/talk about vids.

Part 2 - How To Leave More Complex Vid Feedback
Now we're on the meat of the post (finally): you don't have to know vidding terminology to make your point. Want to go beyond a simple "I liked/loved it"? (Which, don't forget, vidders are usually happy to see!) Then add a comma:

I loved it, it made me cry.
I liked it, it made me laugh.
This vid freaked me out, you did a great job.

Now we've got complex feedback. Not only do you tell us that you liked the vid, but you tell us fundamentally how it affected you. And that is awesome to hear. Ok, sure, there may be that twinge of guilt at making someone cry, but if that's exactly what I was trying to do, then hearing from a viewer that I succeeded is a really great feeling. It means my vid works, on the best, most emotional level.

And it doesn't just have to be emotions. You could also have seen an event or a character in a different light after watching a vid:

I loved this vid; I never saw Spike as a teenage girl before, but it works!

See? That's great feedback. And if the vidder has doen his/her job, then there will be at least one emotional or thoughtful element that you can respond to. ......

[snip] Another really great tool when commenting on vids is to use time markers. So you'd say:

I loved this vid. It really seems to bounce with the song, and at about 1:10 you have this moment where Chiana looks up just as the piano notes go up, and it gives me chills.

By the way, don't sweat getting the exact second something happens. Vidders will search it out and/or know what you mean right away.

My almost-final point is that you may have watched the vid, and you may have identified the one (or two or three) things that really stuck out for you and worked for you about this vid, but you're worried that that's not what the vidder meant to do. Maybe you didn't see it right, you think, because you're not a vidder.

Let me tell you - if you see something in one of my vids that I didn't "intend," and you tell me about it, you're going to actually make me feel pretty good. Look at how complex my subconscious is, I'll say. I am Deep. And then I'll be all puffed up and egotistical, so there are dangers, but for the most part, it's awesome.
[snip] ....

My final comment is: if you really want to give slightly more complex feedback, watch the vid more than once. I cannot tell you how much different it is to watch a vid a second (or third or more) time. Also, if you watch a vid once and decide to leave feedback, then when you watch it again you can look specifically for one of the elements I listed above, and new things will probably pop out at you, too. A vid is generally 3-5 minutes, and especially with the speed of some of the cuts we see, you're bound to miss things. If I'm giving feedback of any sort, I always watch at least three times, but usually quite a few more; even just two times will help, though.

Part Three - There Is No Time, Let Me Sum Up
Whew. I hope that was helpful to non-vidders. Let me distill this into several bite-sized points:

1. All feedback is important, from vidders and non-vidders.
2. Tell us what the vid made you feel.
2a. and/or what it made you think/think about, if applicable to your response to that vid. (Thanks, lapillus for this point.)
3. You can also tell us one or two (or more, if you want!) moments or elements that stood out for you. It doesn't have to be a thesis.
4. If you felt it, it's a valid viewpoint; don't second guess yourself.
5. For more complex feedback, watch the vid more than once.

All comments welcome - vidders and viewers! Disagree with something up here? Think I should add something else? Find it all still too difficult or confusing?

ETA: In the interests of spreading this information to the vidding viewers of the world, please feel free to link to this post.

EATA: sisabet talks about addressing a vidder's song choice in feedback. This is an interesting point and one I didn't include in the main body of the Feedback Guide because it seems to vary from vidder to vidder. But the overall sense that I think all vidders agree with goes back to: all feedback is valuable. And if you hated a song but loved the vid anyway, and you want to share that with the vidder, try to phrase it in a way that is not disparaging to the song, which the vidder probably loves. But song choice is another tool in your feedback toolbox.

EOATA: Constructive criticism is a much different subject than feedback, which is why I didn't address it here. However, many of these techniques can be applied to identifying what does not work for you in a vid, as well as what does. And, again, you don't have to be a vidder to know when something in a vid doesn't work for you. The key with providing concrit is to make sure that the vidder explicitly asks for that type of response, and that you try to phrase it as unantagonistically as possible (without losing the meaning). This is especially just my opinion, however, and varies from vidder to vidder. Most vidders who accept concrit will make it clear when they post.

10/28/2005 Edit: thefourthvine has completed and reported on her a Vid Feedback Project. It's really fascinating and is a great look at feedbacking from a non-vidder's perspective. I highly recommend checking it out.

Comments

Reaching For Words

[cathexys] this was really great! i still think for me, personally, there is a difference between visual and written text insofar as the latter is something i have learned to analyze, training that ability for many years whereas the former is something i barely have the vocabulary for. that being said, i think all you vidders are doing a marvelous job teaching the "uninitiated" to practice reading vids...and ultimately your first rule always holds true...if you loved it, you can always say so even if the specific vocabulary is missing!

How To Give Feedback On Song Choice

[equusentric] You might also want to mention that commenting on the song itself may not be a good idea. I DLd a vid once because I thought the song was by a certain artist, but it was a cover by someone else and I was rather put off at first, because I didn't like that version. BUT the video was so awesome that I ended up saving it and have watched it more than once. I said this in a comment, and the vidder bit my head off. I've been leery of leaving more than "I loved this" feedback ever since! :o/

[Gwyn]It's especially difficult if you're someone like me, who has an almost absurdly wide-ranging taste and who likes every genre, every style. I have so much that I love, and that I enjoy vidding to, and then to have the responses to the vid always be about what kind of music the person doesn't like, or to have the responses start out so negatively (which usually makes me privately mutter "yeah, well if you weren't such a narrow-minded dumbass..."), it puts me off. I'm always glad that people end up liking the vids despite their dislike of the music, but that focus (and music seems to be where people have really, really narrowly drawn lines) can be really grating for vidders if they hear it over and over, or if people frame it negatively right out of the gate. Not that that excuses biting someone's head off, but... I saw this recently in a bad way with Sisabet's BSG vid to Emmylou Harris, where so many of the comments were good about the vid, but people had to, over and over, tell her how weird the music was or how they didn't like it but still liked the vid or that they would never consider using country for that kind of show, or what have you. It was strange to read all these comments that would have been glowing, yet all had a backhanded quality to them. I'm just not always sure I understand why, if someone doesn't like the music, they can't either a) keep it to themselves, especially if they're not a very big music fan with wide-ranging tastes and they tend to only like certain things, or b) save it for later in the comments, where it might not set such a negative tone at the beginning. Music is deeply personal, and so responses to it can really change the tone of feedback.

[rydra wong]I'm wondering how much it's a question of tone - the difference between something that comes across as "This is a really horrible song, but you managed to make a decent vid despite it" and "You totally sold me on the song choice, even though it's not something I'd normally listen to/like/associate with this show".

Just Do It

[river boat] Great post. And though you've aimed it at non-vidders, its a good reminder to me as a vidder that writing a couple of well thought-out lines about how a vid made me feel and why, is better than *intending* to write in-depth feedback for every vid I watch and love, then inevitably never getting round to doing so for most of them.

Who Is Your Target Audience?

[jackiekjono] Seriously, though, I hesitate to say "there is no wrong way to interpret a vid," because I think fundamentally, yeah, you can miss the point. (For instance, finding sisabet's "S.O.S" a laugh riot or a condemnation of the characters - you've missed the point.) But even then, if you can say why you think a vid says that to you ("that clip you use of John playing rock-paper-scissors seemed so demeaning right after that shot of Aeryn"), then it's still a valid viewpoint. Although - it is also useful to see who is and is not getting your vid. I've made vids that I thought I was making for a specific audience. It turned out that people in the target audience didn't get it at all and that it appealed to the group three feet to the left of them.