United Fan Con courteously requests my absence

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Title:	United Fan Con courteously requests my absence
Creator:	Peter David and commentors
Date(s):	October 13, 2007
Medium:	online
Fandom:	comics, conventions
Topic:
External Links:	United Fan Con courteously requests my absence; archive link; page 1 comments; page 2 comments; page 3 comments; page 4 comments; page 5 comments; page 6 comments
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United Fan Con courteously requests my absence is a 2007 essay by Peter David.

It is about his frustration and anger about a convention, the 2007 United Fan Con, that retracted its invitation to him due to lack of funds.

The post generated 286 comments.

Some Topics Discussed in the Comments

• outrage on David's behalf
• many invitations to come to other cons where it is promised he'll be treated well (offers of cake, of meatball sandwiches, of spare bedrooms, of promised perks and more appreciation, "if it makes you feel any better, you can come to any event I’m involved in and I won’t dis-invite you no matter much you don’t charge – you’re all witnesses to the vow I’m making. We love ya big guy!")
• a snarky comment about overweight fans
• suggestions to set firmer limits on con agreement requirements
• many comments about fan run and procons
• many comments about amateurish efforts by volunteers
• a big fight with a troll named Ajay with accusations of whining and cult of personality

David's Post

I was one of the first people to accept an invite from United Fan Con up in Springfield, MA, in November…and, as of last night, was the very first one (and, to my knowledge, the only one) to be disinvited. As opposed to Orlando where I was simply summarily dumped from the roster, this time I was contacted by the convention organizer who explained that, well, they only had so much money to go around, and they were so busy paying for the appearance fees and hotel rooms for the–y’know–important guests, and their advance registration or interest in purchasing photo ops or signed pictures in advance had been so far below projection, that they could no longer afford to have me out even though I don’t charge appearance fees. They had to cut the budget somewhere and apparently I’m it. They couldn’t afford hotel stay and travel costs for the guy who signs tons of comic books and such for free because they needed to be able to accommodate all the folks who charge fans $20/$30 a pop for signatures.

I doubt that anyone was coming to United Fan Con just to see me–certainly the convention organizers are banking on that–but if you were, and you were hoping to get free autographs, you’re out of luck.

You know, I just can’t get enough of having regional conventions use my name for initial promotion and then dump me at the last minute. Actually, now that I think about it…I can. I’m going to be thinking long and hard before accepting invites for any smaller conventions; I’m just tired of having my face stepped on.

Excerpts from the Comments

General

[Peter David]: Speaking of smaller conventions, when are you coming to the Kansas City area (or did we piss you off too?) No, you didn’t piss me off,at this point if I were approached by any small convention I’d probably just reject it out of hand. Who needs this?

[Mike]: Maybe you’ve lost so much weight, you make some of the fans feel self-conscious about their own. Try showing up in a fat suit and see if you stop getting cuts.

[Susan O.]: So Sorry to hear that, Peter. We’d been toying with going to UFC – the bottom fo the barrel of New England conventions, as far as we’re concerned, but you’ve just solidified our resolve of NOT attending. I have never recommended UFC to anyone; it’s one of the biggest rip-offs out there for what you (the fan)get. There just isn’t much else in New England.

[JamesLynch]: At this year’s I-CON, there was a panel on how to run a convention. One of the people — I forget his name, but he’s been organzing sci-fi conventions since the 1960s — stressed that conventions are business events, and that it’s very important that the people involved act as professionals. Sadly, if this is the 17th con run by these folks, they’re either consistently amateurish or more interested in casting a wide net and than cancelling later, than treating their people well.

[Howard Margolin]: Funny that you should mention I-Con, James, since they often do the opposite to Peter. By that, I mean they either don’t invite him until the last minute, or leave him off their promotional announcements, despite the fact that he’s a perennial guest, and certainly one of (if not the) the biggest names in SF/comics living on Long Island.

[Joe Nazzaro]: Peter, that was a pretty tacky thing to do. Not only was the situation handled badly, but I would think you’d be less than enthusiastic about attending their future conventions, so they’ve now managed to screw themselves as well. Considering their website proudly boast several ‘bonus’ guests (whatever that means), they obviously had enough money in the budget at some point. I don’t mean this to be an insult in any way, but common sense would dictate that in terms of cost versus return, you would be their best investment, considering they would be paying minimal travel expenses, hotel room and meals. That means they could probably invite ten Peter (and Kathleen) Davids versus one Wendy Padbury or Tracy Scoggins. That has nothing to do with either actress, both of whom I like a lot; I’m simply talking economics here.

As somebody who’s been to literally hundreds of conventions both as guest and attendee, I know there has always been a multi-tier system as far as guests are concerned. The actors are usually the big draw, meaning their name sells tickets, but it’s usually the second and third-tier guests who provide the most value for money. A big-name actor may sell a thousand tickets, but quite a lot of those actors will refuse to do anything beyond what’s in their contracts. On the other hand, it’s the lower-tier guests who often pitch in to do the work that the STAR won’t do, whether it’s judging a masquerade contest, hawking items at a charity auction, running workshops, or sitting in the hotel bar chatting with fans until the wee hours of the morning.

I’ve always been pragmatic enough to know that if I get invited to a con, it’s usually as a third-tier guest (in fact, I often wore a badge that said Little Shot to differentiate me from the Big Shots. My wife Sheelagh, who’s a makeup artist, is more of a Medium Shot (although having just won a Welsh Bafta Award for Doctor Who last season, she’s probably moved up half a tier). If we went to a con together, we always made sure we gave value for money. The stuff I brought for a charity auction usually raised more money than my expenses, so I figured the convention staff wasn’t out of pocket as far as my presence was concerned. And I remember when I was going to a big Thanksgiving convention in Chicago some years ago, I felt badly for the folks who paid big bucks for the celebrity luncheon only to get stuck with me as their table’s guest, so I made sure I brought lots of signed ‘door prizes’ from the Babylon 5 set where I had been a few weeks earlier.

The point I’m probably making quite badly here is that while it appears the STAR guests may bring in the numbers, it’s the Little and Medium Shots who often help make the convention more enjoyable. Anybody who doesn’t think that having Peter and Kathleen David as guests isn’t a good investment probably should re-think their involvement as far as running a convention.

Qixotl]: Well, this incident comes close to confirming that this will likely be the final United Fan Con event. It seemed probable when guest announcements were made very late followed by the elimination of the VIP guest slot due to the inability to sign a huge name guest (they had Shatner in last year). A flat-out guest dumping firmly shows that the powers that be are in full panic mode. Last year, I came across numerous people who dumped down $250-$300 each without hesitation to attend. This year, the con runners are openly (and somewhat quietly in Peter’s case) admitting that they are struggling to get those same people to dump down $60 (and they are offering more than usual to get those tickets sold). There seems to be little chance that there will be enough money in the reserve accounts to let the people behind the con prep for a 2008 event. While I have never been fully happy with how UFC has been run in the past (hiding the schedule from attendees until they arrive, not letting “day of” ticket buyers enter for the first hour of the con), I did enjoy myself at last year’s event. Much of that was due to the people friendly nature of the lower tier guests like Peter and Dean Haglund. Hopefully this year’s show will not become more sterile because of the elimination of these type of guests.

[Mark Stansfield]:

I remember the good old days when conventions/fan groups were small and the heavy hand of big business didn’t enter into it.

When you invited a guest he stated a fee and you paid it.

In those days we got Alan Moore turning up in the top room of a pub in Preston showing pages of a new comic called Watchmen he was writing. Sat on a chair with a pint of beer in his hand (IIRC)

Iain Banks chatting to us about The Wasp Factory and his upcoming work Consider Phlebas.

Nearly throwing up on Brian Aldiss while chatting in a corridor.

Ahhh…Happy Days

I suppose nowadays Conventions are all big business and in business deals go sour.

However this one stinks a bit, I think PAD has been treated somewhat shabbily here, and for it to happen twice in a short period of time …

[...]

As Peter says, he doesn’t charge for an appearance and makes money of what he sells so to cancel one event in favour of another and then to be dropped means a loss of money.

What about all those who booked on the Strength of Peter’s name, who now can’t get their money back.

Shabby, very Shabby

[Maurine “MO” Starkey]:

I’m so sorry you had this experience. My partner and I own SiliCon on the west coast. We’ve had our own embarrassing episodes when we’ve been less than professional with guests. We’ve always owned up to the mistake and did our dámņëdëšŧ to make amends and sort out the problem. I find myself apologizing all year long for unprofessional behavior done one weekend. Our guests are gold to us.

An incident like the one you’ve experienced, hurts all conventions.

Here’s hoping you have some good experiences the rest of this year and next.

[Esprix]: ’ve never posted in your forum before, but I found links here from friends who are running Costumecon, who keep their ears to the ground about many things fannish.

As both a fan of your Star Trek novels, and as a person who has helped run many fan-run conventions in the past (Conjecture in San Diego, and the national Gaylaxicon, to name two of my favorites), I think it’s both appalling that you would be treated so shabbily, and I also think it’s entirely appropriate for you to discuss the situation on your blog.

If I ever run a con and have the privilege of having you as a guest, I hope we, like many other small fan-run conventions, can be given the opportunity to make up for the asshattery (asshaberdashery?) of UFC’s inappropriate actions.

Oh, and I note their announcement of having Bill Mumy on October 2. Wouldn’t that be after they had asked you to not attend? Curious, indeed. (Of course having asked you months in advance should be the real deciding factor here, even if your draw appeal and professional experience weren’t reason enough to keep you as a guest.)

If nothing else, I look forward to your future works, and thanks for all you’ve contributed to the sci-fi and comic genres.

[Dave]: I think Peter has definite cause to be upset, but it could have been much worse IMHO. Imagine if UFC simply did not have the money to pay his expenses AFTER he arrived on-site. “We’re sorry, we failed to pay the hotel its deposit, so we don’t have a room for you. Or half our staff, either. Oh, we can’t cover your travel, either.”

I have been planning/running conventions since 1994, and we would never rescind an offer to a guest, despite the fiscal ramifications of doing so. But then our segment (anime) has been growing as the SF con circuit has been dying. But what upsets me about some of the comments I see is what I like to call “fan ignorance”.

Fans are very quick to criticize events for things out of the events’ control, or for doing things differently than the fans expect. Often, it is because the fans simply have no idea what all is involved in running an event, especially a large one. They also don’t seem to understand that in some cases, especially for new / small events, the organizers are often personally responsible for financial losses. I’ve heard people complain about reg rate increases, saying the staff of our event were “getting rich” off the con — we’re all non-paid volunteers, but try to convince the attendees of that.

I think it’s unfortunate that UFC decided to “uninvite” you in the manner that they did, but don’t assume that they just wanted use of your name for advertising, and now they’re done with you. It sounds like they’re in serious trouble, and are looking to cut expenses until they bleed. Sure, it’s short-sighted of them to cut several quality reliable mid-level guests instead of one demanding headliner, but sometimes you are forced to do things you really don’t want to do.

[Deb Geisler]:

I’ve read about this issue elsewhere, and then found Mr. David’s discussion here. I’m quite appalled that a convention or other group would invite someone, say they would pay that person’s expenses, wait until very near the convention, and then tell the person “nope, changed our minds.” What I find still more appalling is the vitriol being spewed by people in Mr. David’s own forum claiming that he is being unprofessional.

Nope. None of that. He is protecting himself and his reputation; he is telling his fans why he will not be at a convention at which he was scheduled to appear; and he is ensuring that later claims that this was all his fault (by fannish revisionists) are debunked now.

If Mr. David wishes to be asked as a guest by other conventions (and, to all accounts, his appearances are very much enjoyed by his fans), he had dámņëd well better make sure that *his* side of the story is public and remembered.

Anyone who says that he should sit quietly and watch his reputation be smeared in order to be a “gentleman” is a dámņëd fool.

(Oh, and I’m one of those idiots who runs conventions in my spare time, for no money.)

[DM Swingle]: My main problem with all of this UFC stuff is that this is STANDARD operating procedure for them, they’ve done this kind of thing for years, all the while claiming they are a fan convention.

Let’s continue to advertise a guest that we know won’t be coming so that we can get more memberships. Then when we announce we’ve cancelled the guests, let’s refuse to refund anyone’s money, even though the guest list has changed so drastically that there’s no one from the original list left. Fan cons don’t pull this kind of crap. I don’t care if they’re volunteers or not, you DON’T do this kind of thing.

I’ve helped run conventions in the past, too, as an unpaid volunteer. You do it because you love it and believe in a fan run event, not to make any money. If you are in it to make money, you’re in the wrong profession!

Stuff like this gives true fan cons a bad name, and doesn’t help out anyone at the end of the day. UFC originally started as a fan con called Wishcon, with the proceeds, if any, going to charity. Boy, have they gotten far from that. All they are now is desperate and money hungry, and I for one won’t be sad to see them go down the tubes.

While it would be sad to see one of the few New England cons left go down the tubes, they’ve far outlived their usefulness, and are out for no one but themselves, have been for years now. I speak as someone who attended for many years, then pretty much stopped when they stopped being what they were claiming to be, which is a fan con.

[Rich Kolker]: That so many conventions are run “as a business” is why I no longer attend very many. A convention needs to be run in such a way that receipts equal expenses (at least) with some left over to get the next year’s convention underway. The convention needs to be “word of mouth” worthy, so people will tell other people to come. There needs to be the sense of value gained for the money spent attending.

If you do that, you don’t need the biggest “name” guests or the highest membership fees.

Peter’s been a loyal friend of conventions for as long as I’ve known him (which is getting to be a really long time :-). Treat him right, and he’ll be your friend too.

[Dani]: sorry to hear about this. I found the con fun last year (and had more to offer and was cheaper than say the last creation venture I went too) meeting you peter was a highlight (I actually got so fangirl and shy I didn’t get anything signed.) But from my recollection you were a very personable guest. I found the organizers of that con to be VERY DISORGANIZED. I am glad I did not attend this year.

[DW Swingle]: As I wrote in my LJ comments on this matter, “amateur” and “professional” are not the same thing as “amateurishly” and “professionally.” They form a 2×2 grid. Fan-run amateur (“for the love of it”) events can be managed professionally (“in a well-organized manner”, not “by people paid a salary for doing so”). Professional gate shows can be managed very amateruishly (“sloppy, poorly managed, without regard for good practices”). See the distinction?

[Gina]: I hope you don’t rule out all small cons but instead look at the type of con instead. I have stopped going to fan cons that have guests that charge for their autograph. They strike me as there for money and not for fandom and I don’t trust them. I have ended up being sucked into working local conventions and I have rather high standards for the ones I will support both with my money and my effort. Sometimes these are small cons but they aren’t set up to need to pull what UFC did.

Maybe It's Time to Formalize

[Ihnatko]:

Maybe it’s time to have your lawyer draw up a basic one-page Appearance Contract? One that simply outlines the Con’s responsibility to pay your travel expenses and also adds a $750 penalty for canceling your appearance (unless the con itself is canceled)?

All you want is to make sure that folks who invite you have a genuine interest in your appearing. That ought to fix it. $750 is about the amount they’d spend bringing you in, meaning that the decent and upright individuals wouldn’t be fazed in the least. In their minds, they already “spent” that money when they invited you.

You’d _hope_ for organizers to think “we can’t cancel Peter David…he’s been good to us in the past, and he promised us the date based on just a handshake” but in truth, they think “We have no legal obligation to him whatsoever; cool, so he’s the first guy we cut to save money.”

re: United Fan Con – Good riddance. I went to just one of ’em a few years ago (I needed to get one last autograph to complete my Monty Python Codex) and it seemed like every third person was giving me this look of “Who the hëll are YOU, and what are you doing here?”

I felt like I’d wandered into the wrong wedding reception. Never again!

[Peter David]: I assure you that, if I did that, then in every case the convention would reason, “Let him sue us.” I’d spend time and energy suing them for $750 and then all they’d do is declare bankruptcy and dissolve like tissue paper on water. Plus of course it would be spun into, “Peter David sued us into oblivion,” with choruses of “What a creep!” springing up hither and yon.

[Jerry Chandler]:

Have you thought of working out deals where a con can’t advertise you as a guest until they have already mailed you your reservations and/or your plane tickets or, even better, sending you a check for the tickets with the understanding that, should they pull a last minute cancellation, you keep the $$$$ to compensate for your inconvenience?

Would that even work the way some of the cons are set up?

[Steven Marsh]:

No, a contract along the lines of “If you don’t have me come out, you’ll pay me $750” won’t work, for exactly the reason PAD cited.

However, it should be possible to have something along the lines of an escrow agreement; the convention agrees to put up $750 in an escrow account, with the understanding that once the terms of the agreement are reached, they get their $750 back. (And, of course, if they don’t live up to the agreement, PAD — or whomever PAD designates [CBLDF?] — gets the loot.)

The conditions should be relatively lax, IMO; this is meant to be a “convention lives up to its premise and promises” agreement, not a “guest is satisfied beyond all expectations, or else he’s $750 richer.” Of course, it’s in conventions’ best interests to maintain good relations with guests and would-be guests, so they’ll hopefully do well to keep everyone happy.

IANAL, but the nice thing about escrow accounts is that they’re relatively simple; it might even be possible to tweak a service such as escrow.com for the needs.

I don’t know if this is a common problem in the comic biz, but if it is, then the escrow service might be something established by a comic creators’ trade group (if such a thing exists… I’m primarily in the gaming world, and I know we have at least two such organizations I could approach with such an idea if there was a demand).

[duskrider3740]: I like the ideas that I have heard here about having the con sign some sort of agreement, especially since they are using you for, in essence, advertising for their con. At the very least, you should be compensated for them using your name to promote their con. The sad thing is, I’ve wanted to meet you for quite a while now, since I first read Q-in-Law, and with how badly you have been treated by cons recently, the chance is slim that I’ll see you in the Ohio area anytime soon. Perhaps a book tour for Before Dishonor, even with the late notice, and possibly add in Keith R.A. DeCandido, J. M. Dillard, and the authors featured in The Sky’s The Limit? I’m sure that a lot of us would pay to have a group like that together!

[Ihnatko]:

PAD – Well, I’ve been in your position. I’m a tech columnist, not a comic writer…but still, I travel about a dozen times a year to give talks.

I’ve turned down a solid, paying speaking gig because I had already promised the date to a free appearance that got cancelled. I have turned up in a strange city with nothing but my backpack and the phone number of a conference organizer who had no idea I was coming. I have had auditorium keynote presentations turn into ten minutes shoehorned into a conference room between other scheduled speakers.

I did come to dread the invites a little. But then I worked out a list of the things I was dreading and came up with a list of terms that have to be met before I agree to a date. The only really important one is that everyone must understand that my appearance is tentative until I receive confirmation of a paid air ticket and a paid hotel room.

So you’re right: a contract is worthless until it’s enforced, and there are too many people out there with a “Fine, sue us” mentality. But (at least in my experiences as a tech columnist) these things weed out most of the losers. If someone doesn’t have their act together to print, sign, and fax back a document, then they don’t have their act together, period.

And again, as someone with a contract, at least you’re no longer at the bottom of the list.

No _reasonable_ person would blame you for ending your participation in these little cons if you think the whole thing is just too much trouble. But as a general rule I think it’s usually possible to find a way to keep doing something that you really enjoy.

"People with any common sense at all do not volunteer their time to run a convention for free."

[Anonymous]:

Would think that anyone with the slightest bit of common sense would realize that this isn’t the way to run a rail road, but then there are lots of folks without common sense out there.

People with any common sense at all do not volunteer their time to run a convention for free.

[Kevin Standlee]:

People with any common sense at all do not volunteer their time to run a convention for free.

That’s such a sad thing to say. The entire convention economy is based on hundreds of people donating their time and effort for no cash compensation.

Unfortunately, I fear that this attitude of “you shouldn’t do anything without Getting Paid” is starting to spread. If it becomes more predominant, you can expect that the number of conventions will drastically shrink, and all we’ll have left is a handful of for-profit “shows” (calling them “conventions” does a disservice to those dedicated people who have volunteered themselves for all these years).

[Doug Berry]:

People with any common sense at all do not volunteer their time to run a convention for free.

To say that I’m stunned by this comment is a bit of an understatement. I’ve been in SF fandom for nearly 30 years and the only place I’ve encountered that sentiment is in the media end of things.

Every con I go to is run by dedicated volunteers (my wife being one of them) and they tend to be well run, enjoyable, and we don’t have to charge $200 at the door and sell you tickets for every other event.

Conventions should be participation-driven, not passive. Which is why we sell memberships. You are part of the con, not just attending. I don’t see that in events like UFC.

[Peter David]: People with any common sense at all do not volunteer their time to run a convention for free.

People with any guts don’t make sweeping disparaging statements anonymously.

I regularly volunteer my time for things that are important to me. I’ve helped run conventions, I participate in community theater, I serve on the board of the CBLDF…all efforts for which I do not, nor do I expect to, receive compensation.

[Bill Myers]: People with any common sense at all do not volunteer their time to run a convention for free.

I am a happy capitalist and believe capitalism is superior to its alternatives. But the fact is that there are a great number of vital and worthwhile things that would never get done if a profit motive were the only driving force in our society.

Voluteerism in all its forms is a necessary and wonderful thing. Volunteering to run a convention for free doesn’t represent a lack of common sense. It represents a love for the art form and the industry.

A non-profit convention should be held to standards of fiscal accountability and professionalism, to be sure. But volunteering in and of itself isn’t an inherently bad thing, and I feel badly for anyone who believes otherwise.

[Mike Weber]: People with any common sense at all do not volunteer their time to run a convention for free.

I well remember the buttons that were floating around Atlanta fandom that said “Friends don’t let friends do WorldCons.”

It’s been my experience that, at some point in the process of running a con (of any size), people start going “Why the hëll am i doing this? And for no money, too?”

Sort of “You don’t have to be crazy to work here, but it helps” type thing.

[Dave]: People with any common sense at all do not volunteer their time to run a convention for free. I beg to differ. Some of us find running conventions a lot more fun than attending them. ^__^

The Autograph Thing

[Jerry Chandler]:

http://www.comicbookresources.com/columns/index.cgi?column=13

“Peter David has been having his own interesting issues with the United Fan Con, who invited him as a guest back in April, only for them to disinvite him last week because they hadn’t sold enough of his signatures in advance. Cue, people telling the con that they aren’t coming anymore… “

Ok, I’m lost. Since Peter doesn’t charge for his autographs, what is this guy talking about?

[Peter David]: Rich’s report is inaccurate. I don’t charge for autographs. He mixed up several different aspects of the situation.

[Kevin Huxford]: That would be referring to the possibility that UFC was going to charge for the autographs, which is different than Peter charging for it. Which might have been a problem with Mr. David when that eventually came out, because I don’t think he’d avoid signing any and all other autograph requests or anything.