Talk:Knights of the Round Table
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Unless there is some policy that we don't ever include snippets of lyrics used in a vid, I actually have a reason for including them. The ones I select are meant to give the flavor of either content or fandom's reaction. The 'lyrics' I selected from the Monty Python vid (let's not go to Camelot etc.) illustrates how the vidders reacted when the vid went viral (a subtle comment, but the meaning is there). Placement of lyrics is another question to discuss. I am modeling the placement after literary traditions which includes them at the top of the page to help set the stage for the text. It is a lot of work to find and format these lyrics so if there is going to be a site wide deletion of every lyric let me know. --MeeDee 16:24, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
- Beginning a wiki page with a quote is bad wiki style. The page does not include this explanation of why you included the lyrics. To me it still looks like some random lyrics from the song that was used. I would suggest moving these lyrics down, either before or after the reactions section, and adding the explanation you wrote here on the talk page. --Doro 17:52, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
- making test edit per doro's request. --MeeDee 18:14, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
- "Bad wiki style?" Is that actually in the editing policies somewhere or just your personal preference? --MegR 21:16, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
- We don't have policies for that and I don't think this wiki is big enough to go into that kind of detail, but if you check out Wikipedia's editing guidelines you'll find clear instructions on what the lead section of a page should look like. A wiki page is not a personal essay and it's not a story either. I think following Wikipedia's best practice when it comes to editing and structuring a page is always a good idea because it helps readers to find the information they are looking for. --Doro 21:57, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
- Popping in for a sec (I am trying to work on something non-Fanlorish today). There is a Non-Fanlore Wiki Style manual, but it does not specify what needs to go into the "lead in" (just that there needs to be lead in section introducing the topic, which, IMHO, could include lyrics on an article about a songvid. Just as a quote from a participant could be used to introduce the reader to a historical event). The Wiki manual goes on to stress that "Where more than one style is acceptable, editors should not change an article from one of those styles to another without a substantial reason. Revert-warring over optional styles is unacceptable. If discussion cannot determine which style to use in an article, defer to the style used by the first major contributor.” So this is not something I'd spend a lot of my time worrying about or running around and fixing. Having said that, I think Doro raised a good point that reasoning behind my choice for *this* particular quote is not immediately clear to the reader.
I'll make that change as soon as I get back to Fanlore editing later tonight.(Edit has been made). BTW, the Wiki Style Manual (in all its glory) is here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style --MeeDee 22:22, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
- Popping in for a sec (I am trying to work on something non-Fanlorish today). There is a Non-Fanlore Wiki Style manual, but it does not specify what needs to go into the "lead in" (just that there needs to be lead in section introducing the topic, which, IMHO, could include lyrics on an article about a songvid. Just as a quote from a participant could be used to introduce the reader to a historical event). The Wiki manual goes on to stress that "Where more than one style is acceptable, editors should not change an article from one of those styles to another without a substantial reason. Revert-warring over optional styles is unacceptable. If discussion cannot determine which style to use in an article, defer to the style used by the first major contributor.” So this is not something I'd spend a lot of my time worrying about or running around and fixing. Having said that, I think Doro raised a good point that reasoning behind my choice for *this* particular quote is not immediately clear to the reader.
- it does not specify what needs to go into the "lead in" Actually, it does. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style_%28lead_section%29 I should have linked this to begin with, sorry! It explains what, how and why. The edit with the added context now works fine. :) --Doro 09:51, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
- Doro is correct. The Lead-in Style guide (which goes on for many "pages") does explain - in great detail the what and how and where of a lead in section and offers a wide range of examples to cover many types of Wiki articles. The quoted lyrics that we're discussing, however, are only the introduction to this lead-in section and are not the lead-in in its entirety. Or to put it another way: the "lead" is the *entire section at the beginning* of an article that encompasses paragraphs of text that need to cover a lot of ground. I am planning on using these recent songvid entries as exemplars to encourage other, new Wiki editors to join and create entries about their favorite vids. While we want to encourage good grammatical and style habits, we don't want to have them become barriers to increased participation and content, particularly when something so theoretically cut and dried leaves room for differing interpretations. --MeeDee 17:20, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
- I agree with your comment, MeeDee, except for the first sentence of it; this is not Wikipedia and we are not obliged to follow their style manual. I'm really enjoying all the vid pages you've been making, and I hope you won't be discouraged from continuing. --MegR 18:28, 27 November 2011 (UTC)