Talk:Dawn Felagund

Establishing the SWG

[Any conflict with Silmfics?]

I removed this. There was no conflict with Silmfics at the establishment of the SWG, as Silmfics was inactive at that point (and has remained so), and the moderator was no longer responding to or approving messages. This might be best added/discussed on the Silmarillion Writers' Guild page itself. Dawn Felagund 12:59, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

Ok. It was my understanding that the Silmfics list was still pretty active in 2004/2005, but I wasn't around in Tolkien fandom much after Jan 2005. I did hear bad vibes in the early stages of SWG from older Silmficcers but I don't know the details. I think the handover between Silmfics and SWG is an important topic to put somewhere, but perhaps The Silmarillion -- which I'm just beginning to expand -- is the best venue? Cheers, Espresso Addict 14:23, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

I went and checked back on the Silmfics message archive. The drop-off in participation began in early 2005. By summer 2005 (when ford_of_bruinen and I started recruiting for the SWG) it was mostly automated messages coming through. There were still some posts; however, I do remember being told by Enismirdal around this time that she was thinking of contacting the Silmfics mod to see if she could use help modding the group, because a few people had complained that their messages either weren't being approved or were experiencing a significant delay in approval. I never personally experienced this; my messages got right through, but I never posted there much.

I don't know that I would describe the shift from Silmfics to SWG as a handover per se. It was really more an coincidence in timing. I do agree that it's important to address because, by all appearances, there was a conscious change of venue for the Silm fandom, even though this wasn't the case. I was brand-new in the fandom when I started the SWG. I joined Silmfics during its downswing, but the SWG was intended to be something different, more like a writers' workshop. It didn't end up evolving into this, but that's what I intended it to be when I founded it; as such, I didn't see it as competing in any way with Silmfics or other existing Tolkien groups. Also, at the same time as I joined Silm fandom, many of the prominent participants either stopped or slowed down in participating. I remember being told by Tehta, who was active in the fandom before I started and hung on a bit longer than most of her peers, when I asked about this, that there was a general feeling that everything that could be discussed/written had been done. Oshun (who became active right around when I did) has reported being told the same thing.

There are still some people active in Silm fandom who were around for the first wave as well. Their insights might be of value. I'll talk with them and see what they can tell me regarding Silmfics and why it may have died so suddenly. Dawn Felagund 18:46, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

Looking at the Silmfics [look, new page!] group messages, I think the death was a lot more gradual; the falling off started as early as January 2004. I suspect, thinking about it, that Silm-based fic was stimulated by the Jackson films, and when they were finished, it returned to a much lower level -- as LotR fandom did, but it was more noticeable for Silm because the levels were never more than 5-10% of LotR. I don't have a clue what Silm fandom was like prior to the films, though; I was in LotR fandom way back in the 80s, but never encountered people interested in the Silm and never even realised there were fanfic zines.

I'm in touch with a couple of people in the first wave too, but I wonder if rather than just talking to fans we know, we ought to attempt something more systematic, such as posting messages on boards/ljs, to get a broader viewpoint, and maybe even recruit some more Fanlore editors? What do you think?

By the way, should we move this discussion to The Silmarillion talk page so that others who might be watching that article can chip in? Espresso Addict 15:39, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

I'm definitely in favor of getting as many people involved here as possible! I've tried to bring over some other editors without much luck so far. I'll work on getting the word out again; maybe if I come with specific questions, someone will nibble. I agree that this discussion is probably best moved to The Silmarillion. Dawn Felagund 02:34, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

I opened this discussion on Talk:The Silmarillion. Dawn Felagund 19:29, 3 September 2012 (UTC)