Changes

So you’re sort of left with the feeling of “thank gods your friends aren’t here to hear grandma being racist.” But when this happens on tumblr and “racist grandma” is “racist older fandom friend” all your friends can hear grandma being racist. (Or sexist. Or homophobic. Or biphobic. Or transphobic. Or anti-Semitic. Or ableist.) [snipped] And like how much nastiness are you supposed to put up with from the older generations for the sake of bonds in other areas, whether it’s racist grandma, or a close friend who shares media recommendations with you in a small fandom.<ref>{{source| url = http://out-there-on-the-maroon.tumblr.com/post/134236855375/older-fandom-friends | title = Older fandom friends | archiveurl = http://www.webcitation.org/6dR4Lwbwp | archivedate = 2015-11-30 }} (November 2015)</ref>}}

So you’re sort of left with the feeling of “thank gods your friends aren’t here to hear grandma being racist.” But when this happens on tumblr and “racist grandma” is “racist older fandom friend” all your friends can hear grandma being racist. (Or sexist. Or homophobic. Or biphobic. Or transphobic. Or anti-Semitic. Or ableist.) [snipped] And like how much nastiness are you supposed to put up with from the older generations for the sake of bonds in other areas, whether it’s racist grandma, or a close friend who shares media recommendations with you in a small fandom.<ref>{{source| url = http://out-there-on-the-maroon.tumblr.com/post/134236855375/older-fandom-friends | title = Older fandom friends | archiveurl = http://www.webcitation.org/6dR4Lwbwp | archivedate = 2015-11-30 }} (November 2015)</ref>}}

{{quotation2|A number of older female fans are obnoxious, immature bullies who deserve to be called the hell out for their bad behavior, and don’t have the excuse of being too young to know better.<ref>{{cite web | url = http://lj-writes.tumblr.com/post/167827943785/a-number-of-older-female-fans-are-obnoxious | title = A number of older female fans are obnoxious, immature bullies }}</ref>}}

{{quotation2|A number of older female fans are obnoxious, immature bullies who deserve to be called the hell out for their bad behavior, and don’t have the excuse of being too young to know better.<ref>{{cite web | url = http://lj-writes.tumblr.com/post/167827943785/a-number-of-older-female-fans-are-obnoxious | title = A number of older female fans are obnoxious, immature bullies|archiveurl=http://web.archive.org/web/20181204110650/http://lj-writes.tumblr.com/post/167827943785/a-number-of-older-female-fans-are-obnoxious|archivedate=2018-12-04 }}</ref>}}

==Dislike of Older Characters in Canon==

==Dislike of Older Characters in Canon==

Ageism can look like a blanket refusal, under in any situation where Clarke and Abby are at odds, to grant that Abby might have a point, even when the narrative is clearly telling us that Clarke is the character at fault. The tendency within this fandom for young girls who closely identify with Clarke to graft their own mom frustrations onto Abby is virtually never-ending, and it can be hard to sift through the the complex intersection of ageism and misogyny that makes it impossible for them not to see mothers as human beings who are interesting, who are wise, who are right, who know things their children do not, who are sexual, who are allowed to make mistakes, who deserve screen time and plot agency, who are just as vital to the story as the teenagers...

Ageism can look like a blanket refusal, under in any situation where Clarke and Abby are at odds, to grant that Abby might have a point, even when the narrative is clearly telling us that Clarke is the character at fault. The tendency within this fandom for young girls who closely identify with Clarke to graft their own mom frustrations onto Abby is virtually never-ending, and it can be hard to sift through the the complex intersection of ageism and misogyny that makes it impossible for them not to see mothers as human beings who are interesting, who are wise, who are right, who know things their children do not, who are sexual, who are allowed to make mistakes, who deserve screen time and plot agency, who are just as vital to the story as the teenagers...

Ageism can look like a fan who ships all the non-canon ships … except Doctor Mechanic, because it’s “gross” and “Abby is basically her mom.”  The inherent desexualization of age-difference relationships is often rooted in ageism.  You don’t have to ship it!  But if you insist that no one should ship it, then there may be some ageism in the roots of your ship-shaming.<ref name=abby>{{cite web | url = http://kane-and-griffin.tumblr.com/post/164960658961/hey-so-i-know-that-youre-the-most-famous-person | title = I have a lot of thoughts, some of which may not be the thoughts you were hoping that I would have }}</ref>}}

Ageism can look like a fan who ships all the non-canon ships … except Doctor Mechanic, because it’s “gross” and “Abby is basically her mom.”  The inherent desexualization of age-difference relationships is often rooted in ageism.  You don’t have to ship it!  But if you insist that no one should ship it, then there may be some ageism in the roots of your ship-shaming.<ref name=abby>{{cite web | url = http://kane-and-griffin.tumblr.com/post/164960658961/hey-so-i-know-that-youre-the-most-famous-person | title = I have a lot of thoughts, some of which may not be the thoughts you were hoping that I would have|archiveurl=http://web.archive.org/web/20181204102956/http://kane-and-griffin.tumblr.com/post/164960658961/hey-so-i-know-that-youre-the-most-famous-person|archivedate=2018-12-04 }}</ref>}}

Accusations of ageism is also often associated with [[The Walking Dead]] fandom's treatment of the character [[Carol Peletier]],<ref>{{cite web | url = http://carolageismandsexismposts.tumblr.com/ | title = CAROL HATE: AGEISM, SEXISM, VICTIM-BLAMING }}</ref> forum user Doctor grimes summarizes:

Accusations of ageism is also often associated with [[The Walking Dead]] fandom's treatment of the character [[Carol Peletier]],<ref>{{cite web | url = http://carolageismandsexismposts.tumblr.com/ | title = CAROL HATE: AGEISM, SEXISM, VICTIM-BLAMING|archiveurl=http://web.archive.org/web/20181204030747/http://carolageismandsexismposts.tumblr.com/|archivedate=2018-12-04 }}</ref> forum user Doctor grimes summarizes:

{{quotation2|ageism is at play in some parts of this fandom. I've certainly seen my fair share of some people lobbing ageist remarks about Melissa McBride/Carol. From diminishing her capabilities solely on the basis of her age, to the fact that she's "too old" to play opposite male characters like Daryl or Rick in a romance. She's been referred to as a "mother" figure to men closer to her own age than the age of her canonical on-screen child (Sophia) -- men that she couldn't possibly have birthed.  

{{quotation2|ageism is at play in some parts of this fandom. I've certainly seen my fair share of some people lobbing ageist remarks about Melissa McBride/Carol. From diminishing her capabilities solely on the basis of her age, to the fact that she's "too old" to play opposite male characters like Daryl or Rick in a romance. She's been referred to as a "mother" figure to men closer to her own age than the age of her canonical on-screen child (Sophia) -- men that she couldn't possibly have birthed.  

I do believe this is a result of societal conditioning. We've been shown consistently older men still being sexy and suave and roping younger women (sometimes half their age), while older women get shoved into the margins. To play mothers to younger starring characters, grandmothers, or minor supporting roles. They're rarely given the chance to be shown doing anything active -- let alone driving a plot.<ref>{{cite web | url = http://spoilthedead.com/forum/showthread.php/22188-Women-and-Ageism-on-TWD/page4 | title = Women and Ageism on TWD, forum thread }}</ref>}}

I do believe this is a result of societal conditioning. We've been shown consistently older men still being sexy and suave and roping younger women (sometimes half their age), while older women get shoved into the margins. To play mothers to younger starring characters, grandmothers, or minor supporting roles. They're rarely given the chance to be shown doing anything active -- let alone driving a plot.<ref>{{cite web | url = http://spoilthedead.com/forum/showthread.php/22188-Women-and-Ageism-on-TWD/page4 | title = Fan, Doctor Grimes. Women and Ageism on TWD, posted December 24, 2015 on spoilthedead.com/forum|archiveurl=http://archive.fo/hfgy6|archivedate=2019-02-21 }}</ref>}}

Also, [[Tumblr]] user jeleha reminds others that ageist comments not only discredit the character, but can hurt fans who deeply care about Carol:

Also, [[Tumblr]] user jeleha reminds others that ageist comments not only discredit the character, but can hurt fans who deeply care about Carol:

{{quotation|Saying ageist things about Carol is not only hateful and disrespectful to Melissa McBride (undoubtedly one of the greatest actresses of all time) it’s awful to the many women who watch the show and champion Carol. Sometimes I watch the show with my Mom (a domestic abuse survivor who is Carol’s age) and I see the happiness it brings her to see a character that reminds her of herself who is such a force of nature. Representation matters, and when you diss a character like Carol for trivial shit like her (lovely) gray hair, you’re attempting to invalidate what she represents based on age alone. She represents survivors. She is strong and capable. She is beautiful and desirable.<ref>{{cite web | url = http://jeleha.tumblr.com/post/157487191051/saying-ageist-things-about-carol-is-not-only | title = Saying ageist things about Carol is not only hateful and disrespectful to Melissa McBride }}</ref>}}

{{quotation|Saying ageist things about Carol is not only hateful and disrespectful to Melissa McBride (undoubtedly one of the greatest actresses of all time) it’s awful to the many women who watch the show and champion Carol. Sometimes I watch the show with my Mom (a domestic abuse survivor who is Carol’s age) and I see the happiness it brings her to see a character that reminds her of herself who is such a force of nature. Representation matters, and when you diss a character like Carol for trivial shit like her (lovely) gray hair, you’re attempting to invalidate what she represents based on age alone. She represents survivors. She is strong and capable. She is beautiful and desirable.<ref>{{cite web | url = http://jeleha.tumblr.com/post/157487191051/saying-ageist-things-about-carol-is-not-only | title = Saying ageist things about Carol is not only hateful and disrespectful to Melissa McBride|archiveurl=http://web.archive.org/web/20181204101447/http://jeleha.tumblr.com/post/157487191051/saying-ageist-things-about-carol-is-not-only|archivedate=2018-12-04 }}</ref>}}

Author K. Ancrum points out that ageism against male [[POC]] characters is also seen within fandoms, using characters played by [[Samuel L. Jackson]] as an example:

Author K. Ancrum points out that ageism against male [[POC]] characters is also seen within fandoms, using characters played by [[Samuel L. Jackson]] as an example:

A [[Tumblr]] anon also gives an example of ageism against an older male character, [[Blackwall]], in [[Dragon Age]] fandom:

A [[Tumblr]] anon also gives an example of ageism against an older male character, [[Blackwall]], in [[Dragon Age]] fandom:

{{quotation|Before Blackwall was confirmed as an LI, everyone was like “Ewww, he’s too ooooold.” And now they’re saying “Gross, he looks like my dad/my uncle/etc!” The implication is that older people... are not sexy and young enough to have hot romances. Not everyone in this fandom is under 20. Us older fans want to have love too - with people our own age.<ref>{{cite web | url = http://alldragonageconfessions.tumblr.com/post/98734066484/can-we-talk-about-the-ageism-in-this-fandom | title = Dragon Age Confession September 2014 }}</ref>}}

{{quotation|Before Blackwall was confirmed as an LI, everyone was like “Ewww, he’s too ooooold.” And now they’re saying “Gross, he looks like my dad/my uncle/etc!” The implication is that older people... are not sexy and young enough to have hot romances. Not everyone in this fandom is under 20. Us older fans want to have love too - with people our own age.<ref>{{cite web | url = http://alldragonageconfessions.tumblr.com/post/98734066484/can-we-talk-about-the-ageism-in-this-fandom | title = Dragon Age Confession September 2014|archiveurl=http://web.archive.org/web/20181204021248/http://alldragonageconfessions.tumblr.com/post/98734066484/can-we-talk-about-the-ageism-in-this-fandom|archivedate=2018-12-04 }}</ref>}}

Fandom hatred, and ageist behaviors, towards older characters may occur more frequently in youth oriented fandoms.

Fandom hatred, and ageist behaviors, towards older characters may occur more frequently in youth oriented fandoms.

Author K. Ancrum illustrates the point with character of [[Luke Garroway]] form [[Shadowhunters]]:

Author K. Ancrum illustrates the point with character of [[Luke Garroway]] form [[Shadowhunters]]:

{{quotation2|Another one is Luke Garroway from the Shadowhunters, played by Isaiah Mustafa (43). Have you seen Isaiah? Yeah, I know. And yet, he is also seen almost as some “grandpa” figure of the group. Often people use his age as an excuse of excluding him from most fanon activities involving the main group of characters – shipping, group fanvids, group edits etc.<ref name=poc>{{cite web | url = http://kancrum.com/post/165480905514/racialized-ageism-and-fandom | title = RACIALIZED AGEISM AND FANDOM }}</ref>}}

{{quotation2|Another one is Luke Garroway from the Shadowhunters, played by Isaiah Mustafa (43). Have you seen Isaiah? Yeah, I know. And yet, he is also seen almost as some “grandpa” figure of the group. Often people use his age as an excuse of excluding him from most fanon activities involving the main group of characters – shipping, group fanvids, group edits etc.<ref name=poc>{{cite web | url = http://kancrum.com/post/165480905514/racialized-ageism-and-fandom | title = RACIALIZED AGEISM AND FANDOM|archiveurl=http://archive.fo/GZjiZ|archivedate=2019-02-21 }}</ref>}}

==Some Related Topics==

==Some Related Topics==